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Heavy armour buffs taking in from meta to only viable option

Fawn4287
Fawn4287
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Heavy armour already grossly over performs compared to medium in most ways and far exceeds the survivability that light armour can ever offer. Compared to medium it allows users to push not only far higher resistances but far better overall stats with the max health it offers, a far higher health recovery that has to make up the lack of healing everyone not using health based heals use. Whilst the lower crit is now completely irrelevant with how much better and consistent malacath is over using on anything other than a stamblade. For a mag users its day and night difference, light armour offers a fraction of the resistances for a bit more pen, why wear a set like swift when you can just use either a damage or regen based heavy armour set and slot ele drain?

Now with nerfs to nord, pushing a decently tanky medium or light armour build becomes even more difficult whilst heavy armour receives a huge buff to flat mitigation whilst CC immune. Heavy armour builds already make PvP a slow stalemate for many small scale encounters, whilst being the backbone of what enables the health based heal problem, Malacath and proc sets gives decent damage to the low damage tanks that currently plague PvP. I currently run around with over 5k weapon damage + balorgh and killing a decent player on a high health, high health regen stacked werewolf or warden is virtually impossible with arctic winds and werewolf heals criting for well over 10k, stopping you from bursting the comfortably large cushion of health they sit on. Other builds rely on other huge health based heals like dk with dragon blood or the shield granted from the mag morph or leap or necros using scythe which aren’t as effective but still a problem.

Now whilst my resistances and survivability lost from nord nerfs are impacting myself in medium and others in light, these builds are relatively unaffected and the reasons to continue running medium and light becomes less and less viable, I am at the point where I am essentially pigeon holed in to throwing on heavy and joining in on the heavy armour stalemate just to be able to survive. Heavy really needs a flat damage output reduction, 5 pieces of heavy should incur some huge reduction of spell and weapon damage, whilst proc sets should scale negatively based on overall stats, meaning that a pure DPS build should gain the max proc set damage tool tip, whilst these builds not heavily invested in to raw spell/weapon damage should get a severely reduced proc set tool tip. Malacath should not boost damage to anything other than skills and health based heals need to be severely reduced in PvP. Alternatively a hard cap of 30k health would greatly ‘pick up the pace’ of PvP and make these builds far less viable, however that option seems unlikely.
  • ivramirez
    ivramirez
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    Great effort in attempting to make a rational argument about why things need to change in PvP.
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Waitin to see what Monday brings
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • Sergykid
    Sergykid
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    the malacath band is the true carry of the heavy armor, also talked about it here
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555980/is-it-that-difficult-to-get-explanations-from-the-combat-balance-team#latest

    it is out of their SBE standard, it had 25% just like giving Major Berserk full uptime, but now the buff got nerfed to 10%, however the ring remained untouched
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Sergykid wrote: »
    the malacath band is the true carry of the heavy armor, also talked about it here
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555980/is-it-that-difficult-to-get-explanations-from-the-combat-balance-team#latest

    it is out of their SBE standard, it had 25% just like giving Major Berserk full uptime, but now the buff got nerfed to 10%, however the ring remained untouched

    More nerfs to crit next chapter means more malacath.
  • Extinct_Solo_Player
    Extinct_Solo_Player
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    Malacath and procs need to be addressed. The heavy armor mitigation % passive needs to be replaced with something like "increase damage done with sword and shield abilities by x percent per piece of heavy" which would synergize well with the increased bash damage bonus. This way people can't just slot heavy for mitigation and only run it if they are using sword and shield for damage rather than defense.
  • Fawn4287
    Fawn4287
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    katorga wrote: »
    Sergykid wrote: »
    the malacath band is the true carry of the heavy armor, also talked about it here
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555980/is-it-that-difficult-to-get-explanations-from-the-combat-balance-team#latest

    it is out of their SBE standard, it had 25% just like giving Major Berserk full uptime, but now the buff got nerfed to 10%, however the ring remained untouched

    More nerfs to crit next chapter means more malacath.

    Nerfs to medium armour agility passive too, literally giving you no reason to run medium over heavy with malacath.
  • Fawn4287
    Fawn4287
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    Sergykid wrote: »
    the malacath band is the true carry of the heavy armor, also talked about it here
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/555980/is-it-that-difficult-to-get-explanations-from-the-combat-balance-team#latest

    it is out of their SBE standard, it had 25% just like giving Major Berserk full uptime, but now the buff got nerfed to 10%, however the ring remained untouched

    This adds some excellent points, why use a set like steadfast hero over something like swift which has no downtime and can still stack major protection? To be fair major buffs were pretty overtuned in PvP, especially considering most people stack and ball, however to just completely butcher sets, skills and even ultimates without even a adjustment or consideration of feedback is what is expected at this point.
  • vesselwiththepestle
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    Increased cost to dodge rolling, reduced sprint speed, I don't understand why someone would want to wear heavy armor in group pvp in no cp Cyrodiil? Except you wear snow treaders + swift jewelry ofc.

    I guess the problem isn't heavy armor, but CP?
    1000+ CP
    PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant

    Give me my wings back!
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
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    Heavy overperforms on PTS and live imo.
    I would suggest it needs to lose damage in some sense. Even if that means increasing its defence to emphasise it's purpose. I would probably add a cost increase to skills per piece. This would be in keeping with the change as it requires greater physical effort to perform any action in heavy armor. I would say 2% per piece would be fair. Bonuses could decrease damage received by 1% per piece.

    Of course they could also improve the effectiveness of light and medium recovery passives, allowing them to stack more damage. I think the problem is heavy having too high damage, though and not light an medium.
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    Heavy overperforms on PTS and live imo.
    I would suggest it needs to lose damage in some sense. Even if that means increasing its defence to emphasise it's purpose. I would probably add a cost increase to skills per piece. This would be in keeping with the change as it requires greater physical effort to perform any action in heavy armor. I would say 2% per piece would be fair. Bonuses could decrease damage received by 1% per piece.

    Of course they could also improve the effectiveness of light and medium recovery passives, allowing them to stack more damage. I think the problem is heavy having too high damage, though and not light an medium.

    Maybe reduce damage done in heavy armor by 5% per piece worn. 5 pieces of heavy armor will negate Malacath. (edit: this would have less of an impact on tanks in PVE [not part-time-tanks who want to be DDs though]).
    Edited by StarOfElyon on February 7, 2021 3:25PM
  • etchedpixels
    etchedpixels
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    Maybe reduce damage done in heavy armor by 5% per piece worn. 5 pieces of heavy armor will negate Malacath. (edit: this would have less of an impact on tanks in PVE [not part-time-tanks who want to be DDs though]).

    It's already the case that a hybrid tank/dd usually has two complete sets of gear and (on PC anyway) an addon hotkey bound to fast swap them and the skill bars between fights. When adding to damage rather than tanking you don't run heavy sets because they already clobber your damage dealing ability over medium/light because of the passives the other two have.

    So you go in wearing say defiler and venomous smite plus monster helm (to maximise the proc damage versus your lower stamina), and you switch to tank outfit and change helm on the fights you are needed as tank or alt-tank for.
    Too many toons not enough time
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    Maybe reduce damage done in heavy armor by 5% per piece worn. 5 pieces of heavy armor will negate Malacath. (edit: this would have less of an impact on tanks in PVE [not part-time-tanks who want to be DDs though]).

    It's already the case that a hybrid tank/dd usually has two complete sets of gear and (on PC anyway) an addon hotkey bound to fast swap them and the skill bars between fights. When adding to damage rather than tanking you don't run heavy sets because they already clobber your damage dealing ability over medium/light because of the passives the other two have.

    So you go in wearing say defiler and venomous smite plus monster helm (to maximise the proc damage versus your lower stamina), and you switch to tank outfit and change helm on the fights you are needed as tank or alt-tank for.

    So it's a good solution then. I don't think any tank in veteran DLC dungeons or greater should be worried about switching to DD.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno please consider adding a 5% reduction of damage done to each piece of heavy armor.
  • Sergykid
    Sergykid
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    Maybe reduce damage done in heavy armor by 5% per piece worn. 5 pieces of heavy armor will negate Malacath. (edit: this would have less of an impact on tanks in PVE [not part-time-tanks who want to be DDs though]).

    It's already the case that a hybrid tank/dd usually has two complete sets of gear and (on PC anyway) an addon hotkey bound to fast swap them and the skill bars between fights. When adding to damage rather than tanking you don't run heavy sets because they already clobber your damage dealing ability over medium/light because of the passives the other two have.

    So you go in wearing say defiler and venomous smite plus monster helm (to maximise the proc damage versus your lower stamina), and you switch to tank outfit and change helm on the fights you are needed as tank or alt-tank for.

    So it's a good solution then. I don't think any tank in veteran DLC dungeons or greater should be worried about switching to DD.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno please consider adding a 5% reduction of damage done to each piece of heavy armor.

    lol are you for real. You can't just ask them to do something. In my thread at least i asked for answers.
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • Nick_Balza
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    Very good points from OP. And Heavy Armor is a problem for sure. But instead of nerfing it, solution could be adding performance to medium/light armor?
    Adding crit damage and crit resistances 2% for each piece of M/L equipped will be a good solution.
    Add Malacath 1500 armor and disable critical resistances.
    GM of small social/casual guild Bar Indoril Nalivayka
    PC - EU. @NickBalza
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