Ligth armor tanks gone?

selig_fay · February 2021

Light armor greatly reduces the tank's ability. Apart from the low amount of armor, we now have the problem of high block cost. I understand that few people are worried about this, but can we add the Light of Cyrodiil effect here? I don't know how powerful or useful it will be, but I would like a build with abilities like meditation or vampire drain to block damage to be able to tank veteran dungeons. I think it will still be more difficult than standard blocking and it will only slightly increase the healers' and magical dps defenses relative to other roles that initially have more armor.

fxeconomisteb17_ESO · February 2021

selig_fay wrote: »

Light armor greatly reduces the tank's ability. Apart from the low amount of armor, we now have the problem of high block cost. I understand that few people are worried about this, but can we add the Light of Cyrodiil effect here? I don't know how powerful or useful it will be, but I would like a build with abilities like meditation or vampire drain to block damage to be able to tank veteran dungeons. I think it will still be more difficult than standard blocking and it will only slightly increase the healers' and magical dps defenses relative to other roles that initially have more armor.

You can still use Light of Cyrodiil as a jewelry+weapons set.
Deliberation is now a pesky 10% instead of the mighty 30%, so not too much protection during Meditate.
And yeah, I hate not being able to use the vampire drain while actually blocking. But the vampire drain is the only percentual heal available on all the classes.

However, the huge health regen bonus from Strategic Reserve will also work while having light armor. But I am still a fan of heavy.

Artorias24 · February 2021

Why go light armor on tank? Sounds even wrong in a roleplay perspective....

Vevvev · February 2021

Quoted post has been removed.

Yeah.... I think Shield Tank is a better name for it unless the lightly armored person is foregoing shields???

selig_fay · February 2021

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

selig_fay wrote: »

Light armor greatly reduces the tank's ability. Apart from the low amount of armor, we now have the problem of high block cost. I understand that few people are worried about this, but can we add the Light of Cyrodiil effect here? I don't know how powerful or useful it will be, but I would like a build with abilities like meditation or vampire drain to block damage to be able to tank veteran dungeons. I think it will still be more difficult than standard blocking and it will only slightly increase the healers' and magical dps defenses relative to other roles that initially have more armor.

You can still use Light of Cyrodiil as a jewelry+weapons set.
Deliberation is now a pesky 10% instead of the mighty 30%, so not too much protection during Meditate.
And yeah, I hate not being able to use the vampire drain while actually blocking. But the vampire drain is the only percentual heal available on all the classes.

However, the huge health regen bonus from Strategic Reserve will also work while having light armor. But I am still a fan of heavy.

Unfortunately, this resist nerf came out before I had time to try it. Light of Cyrodiil gives 15%. Altmer should give another 5%. Meditation used to give 30% and that was the main reason to try it. + We did have some vampire resistance, although people don't like it due to the increased cost of abilities.
Now meditation has 10% and it is very difficult to avoid one-shot for dls veteran dungeons. I saw that heavy armor can give 2% resist per piece and think that maybe this tactic could work again. But I would be interested to see exactly the magic implementation.

JanTanhide · February 2021

I use to run with a guy that used a mixed weight armor Tank. 5 light and 2 heavy.

It could not Tank the hard dungeons at all in Vet. While the Tank was dodging and weaving all over the place to avoid imminent death, the rest of us were running from the boss

I will never forget BC2 at the Fire Daedroth boss. The entire room and I mean the entire room filled with fire as the "Tank" ran all over to keep from dying.

No thanks. My heavy armor tanks can and do run all Vet content with ease. I've tested my Tanks on the PTS with the new CP system and they still rock.

Anyron · February 2021

They made frost staff for tanking and then they nerfed blocking with light armor.
I thought idea for this will be light armor magicka tank so even mag players could go tanking and not only stam.

Now they can just revert frost staff changes so we can really use 3 element type staves when we have only 1 weapon as magicka.

Mettaricana · February 2021

Light tank from pvp or pve kinda sounds dumb like holding a flag in bgs spamming shields but not really doing anything.

selig_fay · February 2021

Mettaricana wrote: »

Light tank from pvp or pve kinda sounds dumb like holding a flag in bgs spamming shields but not really doing anything.

In fact, anything that is not a meta tool for a tank sounds like a joke. Someone claims that you can tank with a bow, but you know. It looks strange, but why not?
I tried a light tank on a live server and was able to tank some dls dungeons. But my effectiveness was greatly reduced due to the fact that I needed to restore armor and health. It hurts even more now because blocking is important for the tank and there is no alternative. The barriers really look like what you described. And I'm not sure what barriers are affected by which resists.

Rex-Umbra · February 2021

Used to tank with LA could max resistances with LA with a few crafted tank sets. LA has better passives

Nolic1 · February 2021

Light Armor Tanking will have to adjust more to using shields more and less about blocking depending on the staff you are using and your resources. But most of the changes can be negated using the new CP even the block cost for light armor. My guess was to many people still tried to tank using block with light armor like heavy is made to do and they felt it made tanking in light to similar so they did this to try and make light armor tanking feel different. Medium armor tanking did not change and nether did heavy again mostly do to the cp passives we have now.

selig_fay · February 2021

Nolic1 wrote: »

Light Armor Tanking will have to adjust more to using shields more and less about blocking depending on the staff you are using and your resources. But most of the changes can be negated using the new CP even the block cost for light armor. My guess was to many people still tried to tank using block with light armor like heavy is made to do and they felt it made tanking in light to similar so they did this to try and make light armor tanking feel different. Medium armor tanking did not change and nether did heavy again mostly do to the cp passives we have now.

Unfortunately, I don't think the shields are working in live now. If you think light tanks should use shields, then this is a good idea. But I think the shields should get some love. Although, it would be cool to have a set or cp to convert some % of incoming healing into the active shield. This would help a lot, because light attacks from mobs destroy the shield quickly, which means there is very little time to use anything other than shields

stefj68 · February 2021

for random normal, i do like my light armor tanks builds, put out semi decent dps.. wearing 5 light / 2 heavy / s&b ..
but for vets i would wear heavy... but now with those light armor changes, that doesn't look that great for light armor users

Mettaricana · February 2021

Seeing all this i feel like its time for zos to buff damage shield durations back to like 10-15 secs give light armor a slight breather

itscompton · February 2021

Anyron wrote: »

They made frost staff for tanking and then they nerfed blocking with light armor.
I thought idea for this will be light armor magicka tank so even mag players could go tanking and not only stam.

Now they can just revert frost staff changes so we can really use 3 element type staves when we have only 1 weapon as magicka.

You do realize that it's possible to equip a Frost staff while wearing heavy armor, yes? They did not make frost staff a tank weapon so you could tank in light armor. Most tanks are hybrid's (wearing heavy) and having a back bar frost staff lets one block using both resources and gives the tank a way to actively recover mag with heavy attacks. Not to mention a tank in heavy with 40K health gets a free 8-9K shield from a frost heavy attack.

selig_fay · February 2021

itscompton wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

They made frost staff for tanking and then they nerfed blocking with light armor.
I thought idea for this will be light armor magicka tank so even mag players could go tanking and not only stam.

Now they can just revert frost staff changes so we can really use 3 element type staves when we have only 1 weapon as magicka.

You do realize that it's possible to equip a Frost staff while wearing heavy armor, yes? They did not make frost staff a tank weapon so you could tank in light armor. Most tanks are hybrid's (wearing heavy) and having a back bar frost staff lets one block using both resources and gives the tank a way to actively recover mag with heavy attacks. Not to mention a tank in heavy with 40K health gets a free 8-9K shield from a frost heavy attack.

This is actually a very controversial issue. The magic doesn't look like it should be used for standard blocking. It doesn't look good for both lore and balance.
Also, the words of this person make sense. It is the staff of destruction. It is quite logical to demand that destruction only act upon destruction. But the only problem here is that healers and tanks only have 1 weapon tree. And this is precisely why the argument goes.
But here's a topic about armor. Armor is armor, in theory, there should be not only hybrid tanks in heavy armor. But I think that in the new update medium tanks will be popular, while light tanks will not be possible in principle.

Syrpynt · February 2021

selig_fay wrote: »

...It is the staff of destruction. It is quite logical to demand that destruction only act upon destruction. But the only problem here is that healers and tanks only have 1 weapon tree. And this is precisely why the argument goes.
But here's a topic about armor. Armor is armor, in theory, there should be not only hybrid tanks in heavy armor. But I think that in the new update medium tanks will be popular, while light tanks will not be possible in principle.

1.) It should be alteration or Illusion staves for CC that tanks and healers should get buffs for using (to avoid dps from abusing this potential weapon/skill line. It would be lore friendly as well.

2.) If you are tanking in more than 2 pieces of light armor, you are doing it wrong. Basically this is to keep balance so players can't abuse armor weights vs what you can craft or use in certain slots. But that brings up point 3.

3.) You can use light armor sets in your weapon and jewelry slots while still getting good bonuses on a heavy set to compliment your playstyle. So long as you're max (or close) for 50% resist cap 33,500--have sturdy traits on all of your armor pieces, you should be fine.

4.) They're likely increasing the block cost for light armor users also probably because of mage-types abusing the tank piece "Bloodlord's Embrace" for almost block cost negation. Instead of nerfing this piece, they make it harder for tanks to run all light armor sets for the crit and penetration passives which kinda imbalance the need for even having "just tank" or "just dps."

All this said, I have a frost tank, and even though it may suck and become useless after patch, I may just have to incorporate Bloodlord to my build. It's not like my tank can really run Iceheart very well anymore since he has to wear heavy armor to be competitive in vet dungeons. Just adapt, come up with a new combo. Simple.

itscompton · February 2021

selig_fay wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

They made frost staff for tanking and then they nerfed blocking with light armor.
I thought idea for this will be light armor magicka tank so even mag players could go tanking and not only stam.

Now they can just revert frost staff changes so we can really use 3 element type staves when we have only 1 weapon as magicka.

You do realize that it's possible to equip a Frost staff while wearing heavy armor, yes? They did not make frost staff a tank weapon so you could tank in light armor. Most tanks are hybrid's (wearing heavy) and having a back bar frost staff lets one block using both resources and gives the tank a way to actively recover mag with heavy attacks. Not to mention a tank in heavy with 40K health gets a free 8-9K shield from a frost heavy attack.

This is actually a very controversial issue. The magic doesn't look like it should be used for standard blocking. It doesn't look good for both lore and balance.
Also, the words of this person make sense. It is the staff of destruction. It is quite logical to demand that destruction only act upon destruction. But the only problem here is that healers and tanks only have 1 weapon tree. And this is precisely why the argument goes.
But here's a topic about armor. Armor is armor, in theory, there should be not only hybrid tanks in heavy armor. But I think that in the new update medium tanks will be popular, while light tanks will not be possible in principle.

Now your moving the goalposts of your argument. Whether frost staff should be a tanking weapon is another issue. Your OP specifically makes a demand that using it should enable someone to be a tank while wearing light armor and goes even further to state that was the original intention of the Devs in making that change.
My point was that your assumption of the Devs intentions for frost staff tanking are incorrect. Armor weight does and should matter for PvE roles. In the same way that being able to do to much damage in heavy armor ruins PvP being able to tank in light would ruin PvE balance. Why go heavy if you can be as survivable and contribute more damage by wearing light?
Now if you still really really want to tank vet dungeons using light gear I suggest being stage 1 vamp using mist form with magica cost reduction enchants on all your jewelry and using Desert Rose and Light of Cyrodiil. You can spend most of your time channeling mist form coming out only to buff and taunt, saving stam for bashing or mechanics that bypass the mist form and require blocking.

Mojmir · February 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed.

Yeah.... I think Shield Tank is a better name for it unless the lightly armored person is foregoing shields???

Diet lo-carb tank. With splenda!

munster1404 · February 2021

Light armor, medium armor? Lol. The only tank worth mentioning is a traditional 7 heavy. It's also ridiculous at the sheer number of one shots even from trash mobs. Or the tank having to roll around like a tumble weed when a dungeon boss glares at him and raises its hand. Why hold a shield, build up HP, resistances when you are so afraid of getting hit?

selig_fay · February 2021

munster1404 wrote: »

Light armor, medium armor? Lol. The only tank worth mentioning is a traditional 7 heavy. It's also ridiculous at the sheer number of one shots even from trash mobs. Or the tank having to roll around like a tumble weed when a dungeon boss glares at him and raises its hand. Why hold a shield, build up HP, resistances when you are so afraid of getting hit?

Games are evolving. there have long been concepts of evasion tanks and spell tanks. I don't think it's funny. This really limits the choice and makes tanks a less popular role.

itscompton wrote: »

My point was that your assumption of the Devs intentions for frost staff tanking are incorrect. Armor weight does and should matter for PvE roles. In the same way that being able to do to much damage in heavy armor ruins PvP being able to tank in light would ruin PvE balance. Why go heavy if you can be as survivable and contribute more damage by wearing light?
Now if you still really really want to tank vet dungeons using light gear I suggest being stage 1 vamp using mist form with magica cost reduction enchants on all your jewelry and using Desert Rose and Light of Cyrodiil. You can spend most of your time channeling mist form coming out only to buff and taunt, saving stam for bashing or mechanics that bypass the mist form and require blocking.

You are right here. So far, mist form is doing well. But, this is a little scary, since even a nerf of up to 50% resist will be a strong blow. I wish I had an alternative that isn't vampire related.

notachik · February 2021

Always been a traditional tank all heavy ..my concern is the increase mag damage I gotta suffer as a penalty to wearing all heavy

tomofhyrule · February 2021

notachik wrote: »

Always been a traditional tank all heavy ..my concern is the increase mag damage I gotta suffer as a penalty to wearing all heavy

Same. I actually like going around in 7 heavy, so I'm nervous to see about this increased mag damage, especially since there's a fair amount of incoming mag damage in dungeons. I've always favored a high health build and used to be able to pretty well tank through things like fire AoEs on the ground to hold bosses completely still, so now I might need to move around a bit more.