MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

It will take years for at least 20% of players to reach 3600 CP, so I don't think they will ever increase the cap after Flames of Oblivion patch. Most likely they will come up with another system or will improve the current one, I hope

That strongly depends on how much XP will be needed per CP point. The current PTS patch doesnt have the new curve yet. If the XP required for a CP would drop by 75% for example you would see alot more players getting there quickly.

I'm still on the fence about an actual cap. I do think there should be some sort of soft cap as right now the system does favour max CP over ~1000 CP. Everyone at 810 right now is on a level playing field. When the change hits, things change drastically and those people who just got to 810 CP will feel the hit simply in terms of mitigation if they spec into damage stats; as trying to split between damage and mitigation means lower DPS, and if they were struggling to hit a certain DPS threshold before the patch they definitely won't be able to hit it afterwards until they grind more CP.

That already gives people with higher CP an advantage over lower CP, even if they're both over 810, all the way up to 3600. The blue tree doesn't have enough slottable "passives," meaning the more CP you have the more powerful you become. This sets a dangerous mark for mid- to high-end tier end game guilds, where you have to 2000+ in order to get in, and ideally 3600. When asked how people die in a progression, you now have to account for the fact that they might not have the mitigation if they are under ~1700 CP.

But that's not the worst part. Who is ZOS balancing content for? If ZOS is still taking the mentality of ~300 (or maybe now it'll be 600?) CP with all blue gear when it comes to testing and balancing, those people who do hit the cap will find the difficulty trivial in even the most challenging trials or dungeons. The balance gap between highest and lowest will be felt. Not that it can't already under the current system, but now there's an even greater range.

However, with that said, you also need to bear in mind that this is the first week of the PTS.

It would be a bandaid fix at best. Down the line new players will be further behind with each cap increase.
IMHO they need to curb the amount of non- slottable passives, and perhaps increase the amount of slots we get to 5 or 6.
If they want vertical progression to be the main focus of cp that is.
As it stands, most ppl can look forward to grinding to 1.5-7k cp and in pvp all the way to 2700 just so they can be statistically equal footing.
Can't see that bode well for the health of the game.

Myself, I am really worried if there is no temporary cap. There are some players with insane CP out there, and with out a cap, the grind would just rule the game. I mean, it took my 7 years to get to ~1300, and although I am not hardcore, I am certainly a more than just casual player. Also, how should new players ever catch up?
The current player base got used to enjoy different sorts of changes than vertical grind, I am convinced. So vertical progress is welcome, but step by step. The steps may certainly be larger than before (30 CP each update were ridiculous), but opening up all CP without a temporary cap sounds insane to me.
Finally, I think ZOS has sufficient difficulties to balance the game already. How to balance 900 and 3000 CP side by side?!

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Supposedly a new XP curve is coming, so we'll see.

Well, fingers crossed. It would help a lot, but I don't think it would solve all problems.

Something really needs to happen with the exp curve or a cap. Probably both.

Implementing a cap is a short term solution that just pushes the problem off to newer players later on. Fix the core issue so that you don't need to implement a cap in the first place.

There are too many points to spend on passives specifically in the blue tree. They can squish down the point requirements there in order to get to the 1200 - 1500 soft cap range for a more permanent solution. Needing 2500 cp for the soft cap combined with no change to the upper end xp curve as it is now on PTS is probably not for the best overall health of the game. They could adjust the xp curve so that players can more reasonably expect to get to 2500 cp in a shorter time frame and that could also work, but then turn the green and red trees into a bit of a joke as you'd buy up everything faster than intended. This fix works long term if they add more sub trees to red and green to increase choices there for high cp players.

Troodon80 wrote: »

I'm still on the fence about an actual cap. I do think there should be some sort of soft cap as right now the system does favour max CP over ~1000 CP. Everyone at 810 right now is on a level playing field. When the change hits, things change drastically and those people who just got to 810 CP will feel the hit simply in terms of mitigation if they spec into damage stats; as trying to split between damage and mitigation means lower DPS, and if they were struggling to hit a certain DPS threshold before the patch they definitely won't be able to hit it afterwards until they grind more CP

Yeah exactly. I've only just recently become an end game trials player and my biggest concern is going from being max level to basically mid game player quality due to the changes alone and through no fault of my own.

I said yes but only that it would be nice to have an increase at least once a year like at Chapter release but no way every update that would be to much and this way it gives players the content of the whole year to use to earn cp.

Tannus15 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

I'm still on the fence about an actual cap. I do think there should be some sort of soft cap as right now the system does favour max CP over ~1000 CP. Everyone at 810 right now is on a level playing field. When the change hits, things change drastically and those people who just got to 810 CP will feel the hit simply in terms of mitigation if they spec into damage stats; as trying to split between damage and mitigation means lower DPS, and if they were struggling to hit a certain DPS threshold before the patch they definitely won't be able to hit it afterwards until they grind more CP

Yeah exactly. I've only just recently become an end game trials player and my biggest concern is going from being max level to basically mid game player quality due to the changes alone and through no fault of my own.

People need to stop looking at the blue tree this way.

You'll have all the damage passives unlocked easily enough for your build without too much drama. If you're only exactly 810 CP (you got to cap and then stopped playing?) then you'll be missing some dps, but we're talking a small percentage here. Maybe 2% of your total dps.
You won't be able to have the mitigation or healing passives as well, but you don't need them for your role in trials.

Some people may have only just made it to 810, mate, it's not that hard to understand. It doesn't mean they've "stopped playing" it just means they only just got there and there's not a discernable difference to a handful of CP over it.

Also we're working our way through vet DLC hm content and I'm going to need mitigation and healing passives for that, yes?? So yeah, I will be going from being max level to not.

Tannus15 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

I'm still on the fence about an actual cap. I do think there should be some sort of soft cap as right now the system does favour max CP over ~1000 CP. Everyone at 810 right now is on a level playing field. When the change hits, things change drastically and those people who just got to 810 CP will feel the hit simply in terms of mitigation if they spec into damage stats; as trying to split between damage and mitigation means lower DPS, and if they were struggling to hit a certain DPS threshold before the patch they definitely won't be able to hit it afterwards until they grind more CP

Yeah exactly. I've only just recently become an end game trials player and my biggest concern is going from being max level to basically mid game player quality due to the changes alone and through no fault of my own.

People need to stop looking at the blue tree this way.

You'll have all the damage passives unlocked easily enough for your build without too much drama. If you're only exactly 810 CP (you got to cap and then stopped playing?) then you'll be missing some dps, but we're talking a small percentage here. Maybe 2% of your total dps.
You won't be able to have the mitigation or healing passives as well, but you don't need them for your role in trials.

Some people may have only just made it to 810, mate, it's not that hard to understand. It doesn't mean they've "stopped playing" it just means they only just got there and there's not a discernable difference to a handful of CP over it.

Also we're working our way through vet DLC hm content and I'm going to need mitigation and healing passives for that, yes?? So yeah, I will be going from being max level to not.

And I'm telling you, you're going to be totally fine. You won't notice much if any dps loss and the new max health values are going to more than make up for any lost mitigation / healing. Running 2 stat food I have 27k health on PTS plus we have a base 15% mitigation to all damage.

If you're doing 4 vet DLC hm content with a healer, you won't notice any change, if you're doing 1 tank, 3dd then you're probably already running pale order and still won't notice the difference.

If you doubt me try doing vMA or vVH on pts and you'll see that there is very little real change.

We run 1tank 3dd but we don't run the ring because we share heals where we can. And unfortunately I can't test any of these things because they don't have the PTS on console. I don't understand then if it has all these things by default why the new CP cap is so high?

Also since you obviously have access to the PTS, if you actually had 1200 CP can you dump it all in the blue tree? Or is it like now where it's split and you only have 400 CP to spend there and have to be 3600 to be able to spend 1200 CP in it?

renne wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

I'm still on the fence about an actual cap. I do think there should be some sort of soft cap as right now the system does favour max CP over ~1000 CP. Everyone at 810 right now is on a level playing field. When the change hits, things change drastically and those people who just got to 810 CP will feel the hit simply in terms of mitigation if they spec into damage stats; as trying to split between damage and mitigation means lower DPS, and if they were struggling to hit a certain DPS threshold before the patch they definitely won't be able to hit it afterwards until they grind more CP

Yeah exactly. I've only just recently become an end game trials player and my biggest concern is going from being max level to basically mid game player quality due to the changes alone and through no fault of my own.

People need to stop looking at the blue tree this way.

You'll have all the damage passives unlocked easily enough for your build without too much drama. If you're only exactly 810 CP (you got to cap and then stopped playing?) then you'll be missing some dps, but we're talking a small percentage here. Maybe 2% of your total dps.
You won't be able to have the mitigation or healing passives as well, but you don't need them for your role in trials.

Some people may have only just made it to 810, mate, it's not that hard to understand. It doesn't mean they've "stopped playing" it just means they only just got there and there's not a discernable difference to a handful of CP over it.

Also we're working our way through vet DLC hm content and I'm going to need mitigation and healing passives for that, yes?? So yeah, I will be going from being max level to not.

And I'm telling you, you're going to be totally fine. You won't notice much if any dps loss and the new max health values are going to more than make up for any lost mitigation / healing. Running 2 stat food I have 27k health on PTS plus we have a base 15% mitigation to all damage.

If you're doing 4 vet DLC hm content with a healer, you won't notice any change, if you're doing 1 tank, 3dd then you're probably already running pale order and still won't notice the difference.

If you doubt me try doing vMA or vVH on pts and you'll see that there is very little real change.

We run 1tank 3dd but we don't run the ring because we share heals where we can. And unfortunately I can't test any of these things because they don't have the PTS on console. I don't understand then if it has all these things by default why the new CP cap is so high?

Also since you obviously have access to the PTS, if you actually had 1200 CP can you dump it all in the blue tree? Or is it like now where it's split and you only have 400 CP to spend there and have to be 3600 to be able to spend 1200 CP in it?

it's split across all 3 like live. you'll probably have around 300cp per tree to spend. They have done away with diminishing returns, but have also drastically reduced the effectiveness of CP. I did a quick comparison to live and I "lost" large % of my damage from CP, but my total damage looks about the same. Hard to tell for sure while the dummy is broken, but I did a vMA run and it felt about right *shrug*

I think the big one people are overlooking is the 1k weapon/spell damage we've gained. Unless you were putting points into blessed or quick recovery you'll actually have more healing output because of raw stats than on live.
You'll lose a little on mitigation, but they have given everyone 15% more mitigation outside of the CP system.
You can absolutely put everything into damage and have no real issues.

That's why I did a vMA run. I was expecting to take a lot more damage from the archers on stage 5. that's usually when I realise I had vAS CP setup and I'm taking all the physical damage and it wasn't an issue at all. I tested out the red slottable which gives 1500 mag return when you kill something (mini FG) with siroria and ran parse food and sustain was a breeze. I ended up going back to FG for the speed buff, changed the red slottable for max health and ran thrassian. Full thrassian stacks was 21k max health btw.

Basically way more builds are viable now for way more content. The meta is going to shuffle around a lot, especially with the crit nerfs. CP is LESS important than before, but can provide a lot of nice bonuses so you still want it.

Tannus15 wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

I'm still on the fence about an actual cap. I do think there should be some sort of soft cap as right now the system does favour max CP over ~1000 CP. Everyone at 810 right now is on a level playing field. When the change hits, things change drastically and those people who just got to 810 CP will feel the hit simply in terms of mitigation if they spec into damage stats; as trying to split between damage and mitigation means lower DPS, and if they were struggling to hit a certain DPS threshold before the patch they definitely won't be able to hit it afterwards until they grind more CP

Yeah exactly. I've only just recently become an end game trials player and my biggest concern is going from being max level to basically mid game player quality due to the changes alone and through no fault of my own.

People need to stop looking at the blue tree this way.

You'll have all the damage passives unlocked easily enough for your build without too much drama. If you're only exactly 810 CP (you got to cap and then stopped playing?) then you'll be missing some dps, but we're talking a small percentage here. Maybe 2% of your total dps.
You won't be able to have the mitigation or healing passives as well, but you don't need them for your role in trials.

The problem is this is how the end game and pvp communities are going to look at it.

Pvp its just a straight up disadvantage to have less points. If im 1000 dps and fighting a 2000 dps we will have similar damage numbers. However the higher level player will be able to afford this for damage mit or sustain.

Pve endgame guilds dont want you just preforming your role. They look at this and see at 2000 you can spec into the damage mit and self heal passive so there less likely to die. They look at the so if you have these passives we can tank out and skip this mechanic and we can have healer spec less for heals and cram these buffs in. Its not about if you can get the job done its about getting the job done as efficiently and with the least deaths possible.