Yet another complaint about fake Tanks and Healers.

Ackwalan · February 2021

ThorianB wrote: »

You know one reason people feel the need to do this is because they enter the queue as DPS and will wait 20,40,60 plus minutes for it to pop. Some people say they log off before it pops after 2 hours or more. So they queue as fake tanks and healers because those are unreasonable wait times.

Do you know why a lot of them wait that long? Because they don't know that the queue bugs a lot and even when you queue as a tank or healer or an entire group the queue just wont pop. So you have to leave queue and requeue. It is why i have a time limit that i will wait before i leave and requeue( during peak):
Tank: 1 minute

Healer: 3 minutes

DPS: 7 minutes

Battlegrounds: 3 minutes.

I have never had to queue more than 20 minutes during peak as DPS.

I hope that a complete rebuild of the LFG tool is on ZOS's project list.

So you are the reason so many groups get the 'someone declined' . There is a slight lag space between getting the notification to join group and getting the window to join. If you are joining the queue and leaving again, you create a kind of ghost in the queue for a small window, if a group gets that ghost, they will have to wait out the timer for the group to decline.

Ryath_Waylander · February 2021

ThorianB wrote: »

You know one reason people feel the need to do this is because they enter the queue as DPS and will wait 20,40,60 plus minutes for it to pop. Some people say they log off before it pops after 2 hours or more. So they queue as fake tanks and healers because those are unreasonable wait times.

Do you know why a lot of them wait that long? Because they don't know that the queue bugs a lot and even when you queue as a tank or healer or an entire group the queue just wont pop. So you have to leave queue and requeue. It is why i have a time limit that i will wait before i leave and requeue( during peak):
Tank: 1 minute

Healer: 3 minutes

DPS: 7 minutes

Battlegrounds: 3 minutes.

I have never had to queue more than 20 minutes during peak as DPS.

I hope that a complete rebuild of the LFG tool is on ZOS's project list.

I do the same. It generally pops quickly, as in the times you mentioned, or not at all.

etchedpixels · February 2021

pelle412 wrote: »

Guys (and girls), this is never going to change. ZoS has been aware of this for years. If it was important to them it would have been addressed already. If you don't want to play with fake tanks, fake healers, bad dps, form your own group.

Disagree - companions may change it. Just queue with one other person and a companion healer and tank. Problem solved. Bad tank, kick the tank, use a companion. Fake healer, kick the healer, use a companion. (and of course 'don't like someone, kick them use a companion' as the bad side of it)

zvavi · February 2021

etchedpixels wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

Guys (and girls), this is never going to change. ZoS has been aware of this for years. If it was important to them it would have been addressed already. If you don't want to play with fake tanks, fake healers, bad dps, form your own group.

Disagree - companions may change it. Just queue with one other person and a companion healer and tank. Problem solved. Bad tank, kick the tank, use a companion. Fake healer, kick the healer, use a companion. (and of course 'don't like someone, kick them use a companion' as the bad side of it)

we still dont know what will be with companions and dungeons, zos probably wants them to work as you said (substitute for a player) but they probably refrained to say anything because they are still trying to figure it out. if we will be able to slot skills and gear on those companions... o boy, poor healers in vDLC, no orbs/drain+support sets? kick.

VilniusNastavnik · February 2021

With my mates, we just bring 3 DPS and I run my hybrid Healz Tank Warden. Everyone usually slots a self heal for oh *** moments, or shield. With an optimised group, you can do most content with 3 dps and a hybrid.

Agenericname · February 2021

zvavi wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

Guys (and girls), this is never going to change. ZoS has been aware of this for years. If it was important to them it would have been addressed already. If you don't want to play with fake tanks, fake healers, bad dps, form your own group.

Disagree - companions may change it. Just queue with one other person and a companion healer and tank. Problem solved. Bad tank, kick the tank, use a companion. Fake healer, kick the healer, use a companion. (and of course 'don't like someone, kick them use a companion' as the bad side of it)

we still dont know what will be with companions and dungeons, zos probably wants them to work as you said (substitute for a player) but they probably refrained to say anything because they are still trying to figure it out. if we will be able to slot skills and gear on those companions... o boy, poor healers in vDLC, no orbs/drain+support sets? kick.

According to this, they would be able to be assigned a role or equip gear on.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559462/companions-a-breakdown-of-the-new-feature-by-rich-lambert#latest

If that is correct and its implemented that way, I think it might work on some levels, but not across the board. Some of the vet II dungeons require certain conditions be met for the HMs, like CoH2 for example. Vet DLCs, like SCP, what synergy would they take? They will definitely have some limitations, but they may take some of the burden off of the random normals.

pelle412 · February 2021

etchedpixels wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

Guys (and girls), this is never going to change. ZoS has been aware of this for years. If it was important to them it would have been addressed already. If you don't want to play with fake tanks, fake healers, bad dps, form your own group.

Disagree - companions may change it. Just queue with one other person and a companion healer and tank. Problem solved. Bad tank, kick the tank, use a companion. Fake healer, kick the healer, use a companion. (and of course 'don't like someone, kick them use a companion' as the bad side of it)

If the companions can do role based group play then sure, but I don't think we can draw any conclusions about that yet.

Eedat · February 2021

Kurat wrote: »

Tempest and Darkshade can easily be soloed on vet, including HM. Tanks are only needed for vet dlcs and healers only for some vet dlc HMs.

If I wanted to do them solo, I would have done it solo lol. I don't even understand how this is an argument. People use a feature designed to group up and your expectation is to solo the dungeon? Fake tanks are infuriating as my DPS falls off a cliff when I inevitably get aggro and have to dump resources and time on blocking, dodging, surviving, etc. Almost all fake tanks have trashcan tier dps and if that wasn't bad enough they end up making mine bad too

BackStabeth · February 2021

Elwendryll wrote: »

A very good DD can do just fine in the group finder even with a bad group. A very good tank is doomed with a bad group. Tanks are also pretty rare, and if you're a good one, you'll get asked to help for pledges very frequently. That's why you don't see that many good tanks in the group finder, they don't need it, and if they used it, they would be exposing themselves to a very painful experience.

Naw, there are dungeons in vet, specially HM, that no matter how good a DD you re, or how good a tank you are or how good a healer you are, if the other people are not fulfilling their role, you will fail.

There is no valid argument for people queuing as fake anything. If the dungeon can be done solo, then they should learn how to do it solo if they don't want to wait.

When I have to slot a self heal I do less damage, when I have to block I have less resources to use and everything becomes a serious drag. As a damage dealer, I should have to run for the boss, or chase a boss that should be taunted down just to hit them, or not being able to use my slotted skills because it requires a tank to root the boss in one place. It sucks, really bad and makes the prospect of doing anything in a pug a practice in extreme patience. It's so bad now, that regardless if it can be done with all DPS, soon as I look at the group and realize I am doing it with a fake tank or healer, that's it. I asked to be kicked from the group, and do so as polite as I am able. A lot of times people don't want to kick you, so I just stay at the start. I'm not going to carry any more fake tanks or fake healers, I really don't care anymore. I am so frustrated and tired of dealing with it.

These people are selfish, that's all there is to it. I am not going to reward their selfish behavior by giving into their screwing people by not fulfilling the role the queued for. Screw that, and screw them.

I waited until I knew for a fact I could do my part as DPS, before I started doing harder content. Of course I had to learn, of course I had to get the right gear, I had to work my way up. I expect the people I get grouped with to fill their role and at least try. I have never screwed anyone over as a fake tank or healer or DPS. So why should I tolerate other people doing it to me? I shouldn't.

It is far more common to have at least one good DPS, one lower one and a fake tank or healer, than it is to have two bad DPS. And if as everyone has claimed, and has been my own experience, if there is one bad DPS that's not even an issue except things take a bit longer. VERY seldom, even as a tank, have I found two bad DPS, it almost never happens. I get the frustration, I really do, but people pretending to be tanks and healers happens far more often in my opinion.

So I'm going to complain loudly about it, I am not going to do dungeons with fakes anymore. If we all did the same, these selfish people trying to jump the queue might get it and stop. Making excuses for them is not helpful at all.

zvavi · February 2021

Agenericname wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

Guys (and girls), this is never going to change. ZoS has been aware of this for years. If it was important to them it would have been addressed already. If you don't want to play with fake tanks, fake healers, bad dps, form your own group.

Disagree - companions may change it. Just queue with one other person and a companion healer and tank. Problem solved. Bad tank, kick the tank, use a companion. Fake healer, kick the healer, use a companion. (and of course 'don't like someone, kick them use a companion' as the bad side of it)

we still dont know what will be with companions and dungeons, zos probably wants them to work as you said (substitute for a player) but they probably refrained to say anything because they are still trying to figure it out. if we will be able to slot skills and gear on those companions... o boy, poor healers in vDLC, no orbs/drain+support sets? kick.

According to this, they would be able to be assigned a role or equip gear on.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559462/companions-a-breakdown-of-the-new-feature-by-rich-lambert#latest

If that is correct and its implemented that way, I think it might work on some levels, but not across the board. Some of the vet II dungeons require certain conditions be met for the HMs, like CoH2 for example. Vet DLCs, like SCP, what synergy would they take? They will definitely have some limitations, but they may take some of the burden off of the random normals.

No, we don't know yet. Remember the 2 man mounts? Don't expect miracles from their programmer.

Mojmir · February 2021

pelle412 wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

Guys (and girls), this is never going to change. ZoS has been aware of this for years. If it was important to them it would have been addressed already. If you don't want to play with fake tanks, fake healers, bad dps, form your own group.

Disagree - companions may change it. Just queue with one other person and a companion healer and tank. Problem solved. Bad tank, kick the tank, use a companion. Fake healer, kick the healer, use a companion. (and of course 'don't like someone, kick them use a companion' as the bad side of it)

If the companions can do role based group play then sure, but I don't think we can draw any conclusions about that yet.

I have zero faith in zos making an AI fill a role in any dungeon experience.

mickeyx · February 2021

Everytime I end up with fake tanks and healers who are taking spots of actual tanks and healers who might need loot and skill points. I vote to kick them. Most of the time people have no problem kicking fake tanks. Don't enourage them. Just vote to kick or abondon the group and requeue. Lot of fake tanks send me abusive message after being kicked but I ignore it. This is the only option we have right now to deal with fake tanks and healers.

ForzaRammer · February 2021

How about plz don’t add companion bots and encourage afk farming. This is not a mobile game with auto combat.

It’s eso, don’t make it raid shadow legend.

Magdalina · February 2021

Imo there is no excuse for running fake healer/tank anywhere with a random group - you may get 3 low level/inexperienced people for whom it is indeed vital that every mob is taunted and heaps of heals land. You may also get 3 absolutely op people who don't need a tank at all. But since there's no way to know in advance (unless you form your own groups which is beyond the point here), I feel it's common courtesy to at least be ready to do the role you queue for. That said, you could easily enough tank FG1 in full light armor with 1 ranged taunt and I'd say you're not really any 'fake' in this case as you're still doing the desired role.

However...I can't deny that I feel stupid coming into FG1 as a fully-fledged tank, with all dem support things and 2k dps...and doing 20% of group's dps. While I know I could be doing at least 300% this group's dps on my actual dps character, likely without dying too>.< Imo the biggest issue of most dungeons is indeed dps. It doesn't give an excuse to queue as a role you absiolutely don't intend to do. However, it does explain why so few healers and tanks want to queue for randoms, thus making dps queues so long and indirectly encouraging people to fake their roles to get it done faster. In majority of the dungeons (basically everything normal and most everything vet non-dlc) you can pull through with just one decent dps, likely in timely manner even (even if everyone else in the group is terrible). With dlc's it's another story entirely, but whatever role you are, if the rest of yoru group is terrible, you probably won't make it either way. So...if you fake queue as a support role, your options are:
1. get a non dlc and roflstomp it
2. get a dlc and not make it

Meanwhile, if you queue as a real support role, your options are:
1. get a non dlc:
1.1. The rest of the team is alright, roflstomp it
1.2 The rest of the team is terrible, it will be an hour long slog or you won't make it at all even, and nothing you can do about that
2. get a dlc:
1.1 The rest of the team is solid and you make it
1.2 The rest of the team is not solid enough and you don't make it

You are kind of at a severe disadvantage as a proper support role in non dlc dungeons

Fully at the mercy of your teammates.