Replaying quests on alts is immersion-breaking, yes?

Athan1 · February 2021

Can't get myself to play on alts bc of how immersion-breaking it is to re-save the same people, re-kill the same villains, re-save Nirn... Surely, I'd like to relive some quests, but as my original character, not an alt - so just in my memories. Alts can be handy as crafters, etc. (e.g. they can be an employee/slave of your main). Or having alts play only different content, e.g. one AD-only alt, one EP-only alt... Or a PvP-only alt etc... However for people like me who clear all content on one character, replaying anything but crafting on an alt ruins the magic of this game.

Hapexamendios · February 2021

No, it's faster. I can skip through all the dialogue.

Klad · February 2021

Not anymore than being told about an ancient tomb that has been hidden for a millennia, and when you arrive there are 50 people in the "forgotten tomb" and 25 more bunny hopping at the entrance

Linaleah · February 2021

not really. at least not for me. but I've been an altoholic in RPG's for decades now. I like replaying the stories with different spins. some rpgs give you more choices. some give you fewer. but I can fill in the blanks all the same. even when my characters might make the same choices, they don't necessarily make them for the same reasons. its enough for me. personaly

DarcyMardin · February 2021

I guess there are different levels of immersion. (I don’t get that immersed, personally). After all, there are hundreds of versions of The Vestige running around the landscape, so why should I be troubled by alts doing the same quests? I have 3 accounts and several dozen alts, and I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve saved Tamriel.

DreadDaedroth · February 2021

Imagine it more like a what if?
So diffent character, different dialogue choises...

FrancisCrawford · February 2021

A lot of the game's better quests involve solving minor mysteries of some kind. I find those hard to repeat.

Straightforward fights/rescues/whatever are easier. Certainly there are many dungeons I've run many times each. And I don't have a conceptual problem, for example, in rescuing Glenumbra from Angof.

Lugaldu · February 2021

Athan1 wrote: »

Can't get myself to play on alts bc of how immersion-breaking it is to re-save the same people, re-kill the same villains, re-save Nirn... Surely, I'd like to relive some quests, but as my original character, not an alt - so just in my memories. Alts can be handy as crafters, etc. (e.g. they can be an employee/slave of your main). Or having alts play only different content, e.g. one AD-only alt, one EP-only alt... Or a PvP-only alt etc... However for people like me who clear all content on one character, replaying anything but crafting on an alt ruins the magic of this game.

I totally understand you! That is also the reason why I solely played my main for almost 3 years. All adventures are his story! But towards the end of last year, I decided to create a second character, because on the one hand I wanted a necromancer and on the other hand I wanted to experience all the quests again in the "correct" order, in the order in which they were released. In order to maintain the immersion, for me it is now about events in a parallel world.

SgtSilock · February 2021

They can't exactly get rid of quests because you started a new character, that's the game. Maybe unify the achievements across your account though so that you don't perhaps feel compelled to complete them again?

You could also make account wide achievements optional, [Snip]

[Edited for bait]

Sheridan · February 2021

DarcyMardin wrote: »

After all, there are hundreds of versions of The Vestige running around the landscape

No, everything related to the main quest (locations, quests) is strictly solo, and you can never meet other people there. So I prefer to think that I am the only Vestige in the game.

Athan1 · February 2021

Lugaldu wrote: »

I totally understand you! That is also the reason why I solely played my main for almost 3 years. All adventures are his story! But towards the end of last year, I decided to create a second character, because on the one hand I wanted a necromancer and on the other hand I wanted to experience all the quests again in the "correct" order, in the order in which they were released. In order to maintain the immersion, for me it is now about events in a parallel world.

Great idea! I should do this too at some point, though my main is mostly playing things in order.

Danikat · February 2021

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Imagine it more like a what if?
So diffent character, different dialogue choises...

That's my interpretation too. Each of my characters is an alternate version of the story with a different person as the main character (I was going to say 'as the Vestige' but some haven't done the main story yet and one might never do it). Kind of like how Cadwell's Silver and Gold is justified with Meridia wanting to see what would happen if you'd been dropped into a different Alliance - this is someone (me) wanting to see what would happen if a different person ended up in that role in the story.

Klad wrote: »

Not anymore that being told about an ancient tomb that has been hidden for a millennia, and when you arrive there are 50 people in the "forgotten tomb" and 25 more bunny hopping at the entrance

And there's books on the shelves talking about the Alliance War and other recent events.

That one bothers me more. Tons of people running around is an inevitability for an MMO so while it is immersion breaking it's also a necessary evil. The developers could take the time to populate shelves in long forgotten ruins only with older books. A lot of the work would only need to be done once - make a spreadsheet sorting books by the era they were written and then use it to create 'drop tables' for different types of bookshelves, so if someone is making an ancient ruin that's been sealed since the end of the Dawn Era they just use the Dawn Era book table and all the books are appropriate.

Lugaldu · February 2021

Athan1 wrote: »

though my main is mostly playing things in order.

Unfortunately, I messed up the possibility with my main, because in 2018 I was full of enthusiasm and quested criss-crossing through Morrowind, Summerset and the starting area...

seecodenotgames · February 2021

I always find it confusing when I find a recurring character on my alt and they don't know who I am.

Athan1 · February 2021

Danikat wrote: »

And there's books on the shelves talking about the Alliance War and other recent events.

I mean, we even have books from the third and fourth eras.

Lugaldu · February 2021

No problem with the books, Hermaeus Mora just had his hands in the game.

Nairinhe · February 2021

Lugaldu wrote: »

No problem with the books, Hermaeus Mora just had his hands in the game.

He has hands?

Lugaldu · February 2021

Um, his tentacles of course...

WiseSky · February 2021

Athan1 wrote: »

Can't get myself to play on alts bc of how immersion-breaking it is to re-save the same people, re-kill the same villains, re-save Nirn... Surely, I'd like to relive some quests, but as my original character, not an alt - so just in my memories. Alts can be handy as crafters, etc. (e.g. they can be an employee/slave of your main). Or having alts play only different content, e.g. one AD-only alt, one EP-only alt... Or a PvP-only alt etc... However for people like me who clear all content on one character, replaying anything but crafting on an alt ruins the magic of this game.

The main Problem with ESO is that people are not really looking for immersion.

People just run from A to B follow the compass while having Lorebooks and Skyshards addons.

Get the quest Run to where the compass says rinse and repeat.

If you really want to be immersed you have to work at it.

I challenge you to start a new character.

Remove Addons expected the ones that add immersion, no lore Books, no skyshards, no COMPAS, NoPins on people who give you quest.

Make it as hardcore as you want it. Just like Tes III if you wish. you might sometimes have to make toggles for pins since not a lot of info is given to guide you, you have to use The "RPG" in MMORPG

I am still working on my system and might share it when its ready

if you wish immersion addons here is a draft I made
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/511483/last-draft-need-your-input-for-settings-and-addons-for-immersive-gameplay-for-a-future-guide#latest

Lephrel · February 2021

Athan1 wrote: »

Can't get myself to play on alts bc of how immersion-breaking it is to re-save the same people, re-kill the same villains, re-save Nirn... Surely, I'd like to relive some quests, but as my original character, not an alt - so just in my memories. Alts can be handy as crafters, etc. (e.g. they can be an employee/slave of your main). Or having alts play only different content, e.g. one AD-only alt, one EP-only alt... Or a PvP-only alt etc... However for people like me who clear all content on one character, replaying anything but crafting on an alt ruins the magic of this game.

Here is my theory:
Every time you replay the game on an alt, you create a new, unique universe that is shaped by your decisions. And only one being is powerful enough to see through the veil separating these realities - Pacrooti the devourer of crowns.
He is the one lurking in the shadows of this vast multiverse, watching as all your alts are harassed by Stuga in an endless cycle of pain and suffering. He transcends both time and space, being capable of disappointing thousands of players at once with health potions and crown store gems. He is the one who controls the forces of creation - he is the master of rng and monetisation.

Skcarkden · February 2021

That's not really 'immersion breaking' as you're starting a new game/character with the presence of mind of playing it before, that can't be helped at all.

What is immersion breaking however is when the dialog for quests/NPC's is so dumbed down that it ignores obvious questions that YOU would have been asking 100% .

Right now my best example is clockwork city, as soon as you enter with Divayth Fyr, his shadow abandons him and takes his power... I have never seen such a thing occur in both real life, or before that moment in the game, I wuold have been asking what the hell was that but Divayth just acts like it's one of those things everyone goes through and there's no option to ask about it either. "Who DOESN'T lose their shadow every so often, eh?"

And when Sotha Sil is ordering lamps removed... yeah it was obvious why but i'm forced to play an idiot who can't ask questions or state the obvious and waits untill "yet another shadow villain" reveals himself and act surprised because if Divayth Dyr can't solve the obvious on his own, no one can because he's scripted to be the smarted in the room only because the story telling is awful

tomofhyrule · February 2021

This is another example of the difference between the "My characters are tools for me to do things" playstyle versus the "My characters are each individuals with their own stories" that we see in the global/character achievements arguments.

For me, since each character is unique, I have no problem running the same quests since each character is different so may make different choices. My characters are the ones playing the game, so each one is seeing it for the first time. For someone who just has a bunch of characters in their pocket so they can grab whichever they need for a certain task, they feel like they're running the same quests over and over. The player is the one going through the game multiple times.

Neither is right or wrong, but I can see how for the latter type it gets boring to replay the same quests.

I'm actually having loads of fun writing my characters' stories as I go, which means a lot of the fluff sidequests I'm just cutting. I guess they'll start to get monotonous as I repeat them, but I do screenshot and document the storyline quests to an almost-too-much extent - my screenshots folder is on fire most times. I'm also planning each of my characters to do different storylines, so they don't save the entire world - like my main is in the Pact and will probably take the Orsinium and Season of the Dragon stories, then I'll have a Covenant guy get Dark Heart, I'll have a Dominion guy take Murkmire and Dark Brotherhood, and then I've also got a character planned for Mages Guild/Daedric War and another for Thieves Guild/Gates of Oblivion. I'll likely run my main through most of those first just to know what to expect for the pictures and to get Cadwell's (I've got several shots that I need to retake since I wasn't ready), but that'll help every character have their own storyline as well.

Now if only we could have alts as houseguests or something so I could get pictures of them all together without photoshop. I know most of them need to be on hand for Stirk and Coldharbour, so I'm gonna really have to be creative with that...

Syldras · February 2021

WiseSky wrote: »

The main Problem with ESO is that people are not really looking for immersion. People just run from A to B follow the compass while having Lorebooks and Skyshards addons.

"People"? I think it's generally a mindset thing. It's up to you (and both decisions are valid) if you see this as a game where you just run around for scores and achievements, skip all dialogues, use addons so you don't have to remember anything on your own - or if you really try to roleplay, try to feel the story from your character's perspective, really think about the meaning of dialogues, and navigate through the world without much artificial help. Same goes for your interaction with npcs: Some players see them as loot on legs and kill and rob everyone without thinking much, others see them als characters with a certain personality and background and will treat them accordingly (and only rob those they can't stand

). Naturally, the first approach won't be as immersive as the second one...

WiseSky wrote: »

Remove Addons expected the ones that add immersion, no lore Books, no skyshards, no COMPAS, NoPins on people who give you quest.

I really only use Master Merchant, btw.

Skcarkden wrote: »

as soon as you enter with Divayth Fyr, his shadow abandons him and takes his power... I have never seen such a thing occur in both real life, or before that moment in the game, I wuold have been asking what the hell was that but Divayth just acts like it's one of those things everyone goes through

Well, who knows what's normal for Divayth Fyr?! Probably more than all of us can imagine

Generally, I agree, though. The dialogue choices we have are sometimes a bit too limited.

Skcarkden · February 2021

Syldras wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

as soon as you enter with Divayth Fyr, his shadow abandons him and takes his power... I have never seen such a thing occur in both real life, or before that moment in the game, I wuold have been asking what the hell was that but Divayth just acts like it's one of those things everyone goes through

Well, who knows what's normal for Divayth Fyr?! Probably more than all of us can imagine

Generally, I agree, though. The dialogue choices we have are sometimes a bit too limited.

As i said, i have never seen such an event occur in both real life or in the game before that moment. I would have been asking about that not to mention it basically ruined the whole story because although that shadow wasn't the big bad of the zone story quests, it alluded to more shadows that divayth should have figured out as well but he's scripted to be stupid in that regard so we're forced to be as well.

Even some other instances in the game, i think was mentioning vampires while i am one... so i'm being explained what they are as if i've never seen or been one. I know they cover a few bases because some NPC has referenced my character being Imperial before.

iksde · February 2021

I didt like option to make world progression split for characters

like...this world is big and there is so much to do, to save yes? it is so many to do for single "person, character"
I was imagining how we could have this option and lets say world shared for your few alts and we could go lets say EP zones with 1 character, AD zones with 2nd character, some dlc zones with 3rd character etc and so having few worth heroes immersive realisticaly split for entire world instead single god hero

Syldras · February 2021

iksde wrote: »

I was imagining how we could have this option and lets say world shared for your few alts and we could go lets say EP zones with 1 character, AD zones with 2nd character, some dlc zones with 3rd character etc

Well, you can do that individually. It's not like omitting quests in one alliance has any influence on other alliances anyway.

B0SSzombie · February 2021

So, can you only enjoy watching a movie once, and then are sick of it forever more?

iksde · February 2021

Syldras wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

I was imagining how we could have this option and lets say world shared for your few alts and we could go lets say EP zones with 1 character, AD zones with 2nd character, some dlc zones with 3rd character etc

Well, you can do that individually. It's not like omitting quests in one alliance has any influence on other alliances anyway.

erm yes and no....you dont get what I mean, what you mean is just do this and rest of the world remain with problems for this character

what I mean is story of world of these characters would be combined and when 1 character have done AD maps, 2nd have done DC maps, now both of these characters have world with story, "world problems" dont in both of these places and 3rd character can join and do EP zones resulting all alliance zones are done/cleared/whatsaever for 3 of these character making them 3 heroes with this world cleared out of problems instead leaving every character as I said with cleared only 1 zone and leaving rest of the world in trouble because of reasons for this character why he couldnt, wasnt able to help other parts fo the world

AlnilamE · February 2021

It's as immersion-breaking as re-reading a book or re-watching a movie or TV series.

Which means it's an absolute non-issue for me, and allows me to pursue different paths with different characters.

RedMuse · February 2021

As someone who always have too many alts and start over single player games again and again, not really no.

Sylvermynx · February 2021

@tomofhyrule, @AlnilamE - thanks for posting so I don't have to try to get my thoughts in order this early! I agree with both of you.