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Would you like ZOS to unify more than just the weapon and spell damage stats?
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zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
You can. Dark deal restores magicka instead of the heavy attacks.1 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Yes. Unify the damage, recovery, critical, and resist stats.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Thats only correct for people who steal builds and don't make their own. This change would actually diversify builds across the meta.0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
Yup, and everyone else would have to play a hybrid build that cherry picks the most optimal combination of mag and stam skills, instead of having to commit to one or the other up front.3 -
SgtNuttzmeg✭✭✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.hexentb16_ESO wrote: »SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »The majority of what currently balances Magicka vs stamina builds in PvP is the use of stamina and Magicka as auxiliary resources. Having resources completed unified would break all semblance of balance in PvP.
I think it would do the opposite actually. You'd also still have stamina and magicka separate and therefor one would be auxiliary because of weapon and skill abilities still requiring a specific one. You just wouldn't have to worry about which one to focus your stats on as much. My bow nightblade build for example would still use mostly stamina and still have to worry about sustain for stamina but this change would make other nightblade magicka staples more viable to that stamina build.
That's what balances most Magicka kits in PvP. The fact that they need to focus on stamina. If you take that away. They will get disproportionately stronger. You already get sorcs that run with 40k + max mag. If you take away the need for stamina you open the door to even more max magicka. Which in the case of sorcs gives them stronger shields, stronger heals, and much more damage.
Think of what this would do to a stamina sorc, streak would then cost Stamnia which wouldn't really work for their kit.
The majority of the kits in ESO are designed to work within a specific playstyle and set of skills. You remove that and things that were once balanced lose that and the variety we enjoy now shrinks to far less.Legions of Mordor Core
Cold0neFTBs0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.hexentb16_ESO wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Thats only correct for people who steal builds and don't make their own. This change would actually diversify builds across the meta.
That's not how the meta works. Everyone gravitates to the most effective build or becomes uncompetitive. Merging stats like is being proposed here removes the costs of having a hybrid build (weaker skills), while retaining all of the benefits (access to a much wider variety of skills). The net result is that anyone who wants to be competitive will be forced into a hybrid build that cherry picks the best abilities from each resource type.3 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭we should unify the classes, too.
Each class has 1 spammable, 1 AOE, 1 DoT, 1 execute.
The difference would be purely cosmetic - yellow for templars, blue for warden.
No more "nerf the sorcereres" threads. Perfect balance.2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. I'd rather just the damage stats be unifiedhexentb16_ESO wrote: »I don't have to worry about stamina with my magika builds. Are you putting the bare minimum points into stamina stats?
Pretty much. My only stamina I really build into is in the Sugar Skulls food which gives me about 15-16k depending how many kinds of armor I wear. I have enough stamina regeneration to not care too much about it, but I can't exactly break free, block, dodge roll, and sprint all day.
PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.hexentb16_ESO wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Thats only correct for people who steal builds and don't make their own. This change would actually diversify builds across the meta.
... People usually make their own builds. Just those builds end up being very close to eachother, because some skills are just much better than others. If u homogenise all stam and mag, and 2h will end up filling a strong execute slot, people will end up forced running it not because they "steal" it, but because those are the strongest skills available. As I already said, no, I do not want homogenised combat, because I don't want to run 2h on my mag sorc.
Nor do I want to run tormentor on my stam sorc. Nor orbs on my stamden. I prefer my characters pure mag/stam. So I don't want homogenisation.Edited by zvavi on February 4, 2021 1:30AM1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
You can. Dark deal restores magicka instead of the heavy attacks.
Also, 2H swords already have significant advantages for mag builds (higher base damage, +6% damage to all skills instead of having to choose between single target and AoE), and the PTS changes expand those benefits to all 2H weapons. As long as you aren't relying on heavy attacks to restore resources, and don't mind being in melee range, 2H swords are already totally competitive with Destro Staffs. Try it yourself, your Crystal Frags damage will probably go up if you switch to a 2H sword instead of an Inferno Staff (if you have the 2H passives).0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
You can. Dark deal restores magicka instead of the heavy attacks.
Also, 2H swords already have significant advantages for mag builds (higher base damage, +6% damage to all skills instead of having to choose between single target and AoE), and the PTS changes expand those benefits to all 2H weapons. As long as you aren't relying on heavy attacks to restore resources, and don't mind being in melee range, 2H swords are already totally competitive with Destro Staffs. Try it yourself, your Crystal Frags damage will probably go up if you switch to a 2H sword instead of an Inferno Staff (if you have the 2H passives).
Light attacks will take the hit. Don't know how it is on the PTS though, resists are bugged so can't test. But I am pretty unhappy with the changes.Edited by zvavi on February 4, 2021 1:39AM0 -
Mythreindeer✭✭✭✭✭I don't think they are trying to unify all instances of spell and weapon damage just make it easier in some cases for hybrid builds.
Unifying everything only promotes power creep and lack of diversity in builds not to mention makes useless many armor sets.1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
You can. Dark deal restores magicka instead of the heavy attacks.
Also, 2H swords already have significant advantages for mag builds (higher base damage, +6% damage to all skills instead of having to choose between single target and AoE), and the PTS changes expand those benefits to all 2H weapons. As long as you aren't relying on heavy attacks to restore resources, and don't mind being in melee range, 2H swords are already totally competitive with Destro Staffs. Try it yourself, your Crystal Frags damage will probably go up if you switch to a 2H sword instead of an Inferno Staff (if you have the 2H passives).
Light attacks will take the hit. Don't know how it is on the PTS though, resists are bugged so can't test.
Light attacks have been based on your highest stat since the last update. You might take a small hit from penetration differences, but a good chunk of penetration is already mag/stam agnostic.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
You can. Dark deal restores magicka instead of the heavy attacks.
Also, 2H swords already have significant advantages for mag builds (higher base damage, +6% damage to all skills instead of having to choose between single target and AoE), and the PTS changes expand those benefits to all 2H weapons. As long as you aren't relying on heavy attacks to restore resources, and don't mind being in melee range, 2H swords are already totally competitive with Destro Staffs. Try it yourself, your Crystal Frags damage will probably go up if you switch to a 2H sword instead of an Inferno Staff (if you have the 2H passives).
Light attacks will take the hit. Don't know how it is on the PTS though, resists are bugged so can't test.
Light attacks have been based on your highest stat since the last update. You might take a small hit from penetration differences, but a good chunk of penetration is already mag/stam agnostic.
Crit and CP, PTS doesn't have the second (and we might be forced to run acuity, yey)Edited by zvavi on February 4, 2021 1:41AM0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
You can. Dark deal restores magicka instead of the heavy attacks.
Also, 2H swords already have significant advantages for mag builds (higher base damage, +6% damage to all skills instead of having to choose between single target and AoE), and the PTS changes expand those benefits to all 2H weapons. As long as you aren't relying on heavy attacks to restore resources, and don't mind being in melee range, 2H swords are already totally competitive with Destro Staffs. Try it yourself, your Crystal Frags damage will probably go up if you switch to a 2H sword instead of an Inferno Staff (if you have the 2H passives).
Light attacks will take the hit. Don't know how it is on the PTS though, resists are bugged so can't test.
Light attacks have been based on your highest stat since the last update. You might take a small hit from penetration differences, but a good chunk of penetration is already mag/stam agnostic.
Crit.
That's what the upcoming crit nerfs are for.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
You can. Dark deal restores magicka instead of the heavy attacks.
Also, 2H swords already have significant advantages for mag builds (higher base damage, +6% damage to all skills instead of having to choose between single target and AoE), and the PTS changes expand those benefits to all 2H weapons. As long as you aren't relying on heavy attacks to restore resources, and don't mind being in melee range, 2H swords are already totally competitive with Destro Staffs. Try it yourself, your Crystal Frags damage will probably go up if you switch to a 2H sword instead of an Inferno Staff (if you have the 2H passives).
Light attacks will take the hit. Don't know how it is on the PTS though, resists are bugged so can't test.
Light attacks have been based on your highest stat since the last update. You might take a small hit from penetration differences, but a good chunk of penetration is already mag/stam agnostic.
Crit.
That's what the upcoming crit nerfs are for.
Weapon/spell dmg is nerfed too by diminishing returns. Max mag/stam got hit twice by it (lost 20%) next patch the armor you are wearing will contribute less to your damage no matter what you are wearing.Edited by zvavi on February 4, 2021 1:45AM0 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
You can. Dark deal restores magicka instead of the heavy attacks.
Also, 2H swords already have significant advantages for mag builds (higher base damage, +6% damage to all skills instead of having to choose between single target and AoE), and the PTS changes expand those benefits to all 2H weapons. As long as you aren't relying on heavy attacks to restore resources, and don't mind being in melee range, 2H swords are already totally competitive with Destro Staffs. Try it yourself, your Crystal Frags damage will probably go up if you switch to a 2H sword instead of an Inferno Staff (if you have the 2H passives).
Light attacks will take the hit. Don't know how it is on the PTS though, resists are bugged so can't test.
Light attacks have been based on your highest stat since the last update. You might take a small hit from penetration differences, but a good chunk of penetration is already mag/stam agnostic.
Crit.
That's what the upcoming crit nerfs are for.
Weapon/spell dmg is nerfed too by diminishing returns.
Not nearly as much as crit. The whole point of the crit nerfs is to make non-crit builds viable. If the current nerfs don't achieve that, you can expect more in the future.
Also, the threshold for all of this hybrid stuff should just be viability, not optimality. 2H weapons already optimize mag skill damage, so they can afford to be a little weaker in the LA department.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other. Please elaborate in the comments.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The Wheeler Homogenization Brigade marches onward.
It's gone too far, and it has already stripped sources of joy in the game from me, and I'd like to see it halted, maybe even forced to back up a bit.
Can one of the "homogenization" rhetoricians explain to me how allowing more weapon types than staves to be used on most of the classes makes the game more "homogenized" instead of less.
As it is you roll staff and cookie cutter talents, and if anyone questions anything you get yelled at. Such "build diversity."
If everyone has easy access to all abilities, then there will be one meta build for everyone, instead of separate meta builds for every class and mag/stam combination. The proposed changes would basically cut the number of build options within the meta in half.
Nonsense. I want a sorc that shoots lighting and hits people with a sword. Not very viable now simply because swords cannot gain back magic.
Would what the thread is promoting happen (and it will eventually if zos doesn't want their game to be hamstrung by unfun "meta" builds), I could do that.
You can. Dark deal restores magicka instead of the heavy attacks.
Also, 2H swords already have significant advantages for mag builds (higher base damage, +6% damage to all skills instead of having to choose between single target and AoE), and the PTS changes expand those benefits to all 2H weapons. As long as you aren't relying on heavy attacks to restore resources, and don't mind being in melee range, 2H swords are already totally competitive with Destro Staffs. Try it yourself, your Crystal Frags damage will probably go up if you switch to a 2H sword instead of an Inferno Staff (if you have the 2H passives).
Light attacks will take the hit. Don't know how it is on the PTS though, resists are bugged so can't test.
Light attacks have been based on your highest stat since the last update. You might take a small hit from penetration differences, but a good chunk of penetration is already mag/stam agnostic.
Crit.
That's what the upcoming crit nerfs are for.
Weapon/spell dmg is nerfed too by diminishing returns.
Not nearly as much as crit. The whole point of the crit nerfs is to make non-crit builds viable. If the current nerfs don't achieve that, you can expect more in the future.
Also, the threshold for all of this hybrid stuff should just be viability, not optimality. 2H weapons already optimize mag skill damage, so they can afford to be a little weaker in the LA department.
What I am afraid of is them being actually stronger. When they fix the dummy I will take a 2h/dw and test it. If it ends up being stronger, I will be sad. (Though am very skeptical, maces might be stronger for dungeons to reach pen cap though) I am actually skeptical about raid environment because both swords and daggers got a nerf.Edited by zvavi on February 4, 2021 2:11AM1 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Yes. Unify the damage, recovery, critical, and resist stats.Mythreindeer wrote: »I don't think they are trying to unify all instances of spell and weapon damage just make it easier in some cases for hybrid builds.
Unifying everything only promotes power creep and lack of diversity in builds not to mention makes useless many armor sets.
The power creep would be easier to control though. The diversity in builds would increase because we would could use more sets without crippling our build.
You are right about armor sets. But like I said those would need to be changed. This essentially means more new sets, which is always a good thing.0