Of all things to nerf....
-
Auztinito✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »
Very sure you don't actually know what prebuffing is.
From what I read, it's just an expoit that lets you stack buffs from gear and quickly switching it causing two gear loadout to stack on each other. That's as exploit-y as it gets. If I was a designer on the game, I'd be wanting to patch it out because it seems limited to PC and it'd suck if they started balancing content around another exploit turned "feature".
*ahem* light weaving *ahem*6 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »glitching through the wall in CoH2,
They fixed that one by making the fear cower you instead of make u run away.0 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »What is strange this exploit came up years ago and they allegedly fixed it then.
Guess like quite a few ESO bugs it came back.
This is just as much an exploit as the mundus stone bug was.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time.
What has a much bigger impact is trash vrs boss setups.
Trash vrs boss setups will still exist.
Also, as far as exploits go.... pretty dang harmless.
It mays be anecdotic in PvE.
But it likely can have a huge impact on ganker builds in PvP. (prebuff --> attack !).
now, you'll tell me it's another instance of PvP fix affecting PvE, but ..since it's unintended and obviously a "bug", they might as well fix it.
Also, as you just said :
"Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time"
No problem, then.
Never heard of a ganker risking a prebuff. You are counted as in combat for so much of pvp the risk of getting stuck in a set is pretty high.
Reread my original post about the wider implications of nerfing these sets out of use.
I've literally gotten clears and achievements I would not otherwise have gotten because of people farming sets just for prebuffing. So have many many other, whether they realize it or not I would guess.
0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »FantasticFreddie wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »What is strange this exploit came up years ago and they allegedly fixed it then.
Guess like quite a few ESO bugs it came back.
This is just as much an exploit as the mundus stone bug was.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time.
What has a much bigger impact is trash vrs boss setups.
Trash vrs boss setups will still exist.
Also, as far as exploits go.... pretty dang harmless.
It mays be anecdotic in PvE.
But it likely can have a huge impact on ganker builds in PvP. (prebuff --> attack !).
now, you'll tell me it's another instance of PvP fix affecting PvE, but ..since it's unintended and obviously a "bug", they might as well fix it.
Also, as you just said :
"Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time"
No problem, then.
Never heard of a ganker risking a prebuff. You are counted as in combat for so much of pvp the risk of getting stuck in a set is pretty high.
Reread my original post about the wider implications of nerfing these sets out of use.
I've literally gotten clears and achievements I would not otherwise have gotten because of people farming sets just for prebuffing. So have many many other, whether they realize it or not I would guess.
People farming a set is literally the worst reason to give to not fix an obvious exploit of set usage.2 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »FantasticFreddie wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »What is strange this exploit came up years ago and they allegedly fixed it then.
Guess like quite a few ESO bugs it came back.
This is just as much an exploit as the mundus stone bug was.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time.
What has a much bigger impact is trash vrs boss setups.
Trash vrs boss setups will still exist.
Also, as far as exploits go.... pretty dang harmless.
It mays be anecdotic in PvE.
But it likely can have a huge impact on ganker builds in PvP. (prebuff --> attack !).
now, you'll tell me it's another instance of PvP fix affecting PvE, but ..since it's unintended and obviously a "bug", they might as well fix it.
Also, as you just said :
"Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time"
No problem, then.
Never heard of a ganker risking a prebuff. You are counted as in combat for so much of pvp the risk of getting stuck in a set is pretty high.
Reread my original post about the wider implications of nerfing these sets out of use.
I've literally gotten clears and achievements I would not otherwise have gotten because of people farming sets just for prebuffing. So have many many other, whether they realize it or not I would guess.
People farming a set is literally the worst reason to give to not fix an obvious exploit of set usage.
"Obvious exploit"
Did you even know or care it existed before this thread?
And you can still use dressing room to swap gear, it's not like they changed that, they just nerfed the sets directly.
I am sick of the constant nerf hammer, especially one that will have NO positive impact on the players or state of the game.
Not one single person has argued why this change will be good for the game or the player base.
Because there IS no argument.
That there will be less people running the content to farm the nerfed sets is common sense, and that SHOULD be taken into consideration before they just nerf stuff. Zos should want people to be playing their own damn game!0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »FantasticFreddie wrote: »FantasticFreddie wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »What is strange this exploit came up years ago and they allegedly fixed it then.
Guess like quite a few ESO bugs it came back.
This is just as much an exploit as the mundus stone bug was.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time.
What has a much bigger impact is trash vrs boss setups.
Trash vrs boss setups will still exist.
Also, as far as exploits go.... pretty dang harmless.
It mays be anecdotic in PvE.
But it likely can have a huge impact on ganker builds in PvP. (prebuff --> attack !).
now, you'll tell me it's another instance of PvP fix affecting PvE, but ..since it's unintended and obviously a "bug", they might as well fix it.
Also, as you just said :
"Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time"
No problem, then.
Never heard of a ganker risking a prebuff. You are counted as in combat for so much of pvp the risk of getting stuck in a set is pretty high.
Reread my original post about the wider implications of nerfing these sets out of use.
I've literally gotten clears and achievements I would not otherwise have gotten because of people farming sets just for prebuffing. So have many many other, whether they realize it or not I would guess.
People farming a set is literally the worst reason to give to not fix an obvious exploit of set usage.
"Obvious exploit"
Did you even know or care it existed before this thread?
And you can still use dressing room to swap gear, it's not like they changed that, they just nerfed the sets directly.
I am sick of the constant nerf hammer, especially one that will have NO positive impact on the players or state of the game.
Not one single person has argued why this change will be good for the game or the player base.
Because there IS no argument.
That there will be less people running the content to farm the nerfed sets is common sense, and that SHOULD be taken into consideration before they just nerf stuff. Zos should want people to be playing their own damn game!
I actually did not, but that isn't what I meant by obvious, as in people know about en masse. Obvious, meaning, it is clear to see that this is a gear exploit.
It is good for the game to fix this, because it is an exploit that provides extra, unintended damage, which skews completion rate data, which ZOS uses to balance game modes.1 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »I've literally gotten clears and achievements I would not otherwise have gotten because of people farming sets just for prebuffing. So have many many other, whether they realize it or not I would guess.
Underskilled players completing content only because of an exploit sounds like a pretty good reason to kill the exploit.I am sick of the constant nerf hammer, especially one that will have NO positive impact on the players or state of the game.
Translation: "I am not good enough to play at the level I would like to, and therefore will do anything in my power to try to justify the existence of blatant exploits. I have been cheating up to this point, why won't ZOS just let me continue to cheat?"Edited by Mindcr0w on February 3, 2021 4:20PM4 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »I've literally gotten clears and achievements I would not otherwise have gotten because of people farming sets just for prebuffing. So have many many other, whether they realize it or not I would guess.
Underskilled players completing content only because of an exploit sounds like a pretty good reason to kill the exploit.I am sick of the constant nerf hammer, especially one that will have NO positive impact on the players or state of the game.
Translation: "I am not good enough to play at the level I would like to, and therefore will do anything in my power to try to justify the existence of blatant exploits. I have been cheating up to this point, why won't ZOS just let me continue to cheat?"
I don't prebuff, run with a few people who like to, but it has no impact on if we clear the content or not.
You clearly *don't* understand it if you think it makes the difference between a clear and not clear.
0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »
dear god people actually do that? then again ive heard with that addon its incredibly easy to switch between loadouts but dear god.....that..explains a lot. good riddance to that rubbage then.
It's heavily abused in PvP, more than PvE actually. I can see why someone would be upset about it.0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »I don't prebuff, run with a few people who like to, but it has no impact on if we clear the content or not.
You clearly *don't* understand it if you think it makes the difference between a clear and not clear.
Bro.FantasticFreddie wrote: »I've literally gotten clears and achievements I would not otherwise have gotten because of people farming sets just for prebuffing. So have many many other, whether they realize it or not I would guess.
Edited by Mindcr0w on February 3, 2021 4:29PM0 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »I don't prebuff, run with a few people who like to, but it has no impact on if we clear the content or not.
You clearly *don't* understand it if you think it makes the difference between a clear and not clear.
Bro.FantasticFreddie wrote: »I've literally gotten clears and achievements I would not otherwise have gotten because of people farming sets just for prebuffing. So have many many other, whether they realize it or not I would guess.
Because people were running the content. VHoF was a thorn in my side for the longest time. No one was running it, if one was posted it never filled, a few times a group made a half-hearted stab, didn't clear, said they would post it again and then never did.
Then the MA/WM sets got popular again and suddenly, they were EVERYWHERE.
Same with SCP. A couple of my friends wanted to farm jorvulds for prebuff setups, we ended up going for the skin.0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »Because people were running the content. VHoF was a thorn in my side for the longest time. No one was running it, if one was posted it never filled, a few times a group made a half-hearted stab, didn't clear, said they would post it again and then never did.
Then the MA/WM sets got popular again and suddenly, they were EVERYWHERE.
Same with SCP. A couple of my friends wanted to farm jorvulds for prebuff setups, we ended up going for the skin.
If that much extra effort is going into gathering items to make use of an exploit, then obviously the exploit must make a pretty real difference.
Sorry you support/rely on cheating.
Glad you won't be able to going forward. 👍Edited by Mindcr0w on February 3, 2021 4:41PM2 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »Because people were running the content. VHoF was a thorn in my side for the longest time. No one was running it, if one was posted it never filled, a few times a group made a half-hearted stab, didn't clear, said they would post it again and then never did.
Then the MA/WM sets got popular again and suddenly, they were EVERYWHERE.
Same with SCP. A couple of my friends wanted to farm jorvulds for prebuff setups, we ended up going for the skin.
If that much extra effort is going into gathering items to make use of an exploit, then obviously the exploit must make a pretty real difference.
Sorry you support/rely on cheating.
Glad you won't be able to going forward. 👍
I recognize it's better for health of the community to have it. More players running more content= more robust pve community. Straight common sense.
You call it cheating... who is it hurting? Who has the unfair advantage? Who is the advantage over?0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oh man the mental gymnastics it takes to go from: "a lot of people farm items to utilize an exploit" to "the exploit is healthy for the community"
Cheater mentality. SMH.3 -
manny254✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.- Mojican0 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh man the mental gymnastics it takes to go from: "a lot of people farm items to utilize an exploit" to "the exploit is healthy for the community"
Cheater mentality. SMH.
Do you have anything to add other than "well it's an EXPLOIT"
Mini maps aren't base game. Is that an exploit? Devs clearly never intended for their to be a minimap
Heck, you can make the argument that ALL addons are exploits. In which case zos should ban all addons so we are all stuck with base ui! Because exploots!!!!!!!0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.
Most people inherently understand that society generally frowns upon cheating and don't need it explained to them, or don't need to pretend that they need it explained to them.
Unlike the OP.Edited by Mindcr0w on February 3, 2021 5:05PM1 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.
Most people inherently understand that society generally frowns upon cheating and don't need it explained to them, or don't need to pretend that they need it explained to them.
Unlike the OP.
You haven't made any effort to explain how and why this is cheating, or how it differentiates from the common practice of boss vrs trash setups, or the many, many addons that increase quality of life for pc users.0 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And before you rehash "well it gives you an unfair advantage over console"
Remember all of the many, many tools PC users have that console does not, one of which is given to us by Zos themselves, aka logs, that give us a clear advantage when progging content.0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »You haven't made any effort to explain how and why this is cheating, or how it differentiates from the common practice of boss vrs trash setups, or the many, many addons that increase quality of life for pc users.Most people inherently understand that society generally frowns upon cheating and don't need it explained to them, or don't need to pretend that they need it explained to them.
Unlike the OP.
I'm not going to educate you on Baby's First Ethics Lesson or indulge your pretended ignorance.
If you don't understand the difference between using different gear for different situations, and effectively using more gear sets simultaneously than intended (albeit very temporarily) in a single situation, then you aren't on the same page as society as a whole.Edited by Mindcr0w on February 3, 2021 5:18PM0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.
Most people inherently understand that society generally frowns upon cheating and don't need it explained to them, or don't need to pretend that they need it explained to them.
Unlike the OP.
You haven't made any effort to explain how and why this is cheating, or how it differentiates from the common practice of boss vrs trash setups, or the many, many addons that increase quality of life for pc users.
The difference between changing gear for trash or boss fights is you are literally wearing the gear for those fights. Pre-buffing is giving you bonuses from sets you are not wearing anymore. Looks like cheating, sounds like cheating. How can anyone argue, in good faith, that gaining bonuses from sets that are not even equipped anymore is an intended function? Like, if I remove the 2nd piece of Zaan, the set no longer works. If I front bar Mother's Sorrow, when I am on my back bar my crit chance goes down. If I completely remove a set, it is clearly not intended that I still gain the advantage of that set.Edited by jaws343 on February 3, 2021 5:18PM2 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.
Yep. I'm actually surprised to see a complaint about this.1 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.
Most people inherently understand that society generally frowns upon cheating and don't need it explained to them, or don't need to pretend that they need it explained to them.
Unlike the OP.
It isn´t an exploit, it is changing your gear before the fight started.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.
Most people inherently understand that society generally frowns upon cheating and don't need it explained to them, or don't need to pretend that they need it explained to them.
Unlike the OP.
It isn´t an exploit, it is changing your gear before the fight started.
It isn't just that. It is changing your gear before the fight starts but still retaining the buffs the gear you are no longer wearing. This isn't "You had Balorgh equipped and now you don't" This is "You had Balorgh equipped and procced it and then replaced it with Zaan and still have the Balorgh damage buff and now a completely different monster set doing damage"
2 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.
Most people inherently understand that society generally frowns upon cheating and don't need it explained to them, or don't need to pretend that they need it explained to them.
Unlike the OP.
It isn´t an exploit, it is changing your gear before the fight started.
It isn't just that. It is changing your gear before the fight starts but still retaining the buffs the gear you are no longer wearing. This isn't "You had Balorgh equipped and now you don't" This is "You had Balorgh equipped and procced it and then replaced it with Zaan and still have the Balorgh damage buff and now a completely different monster set doing damage"
Yes, that is true.
The player I responded to states it is an exploit and chooses to insult the OP with things like ´mental gymnastics´. Funny thing is, it has been in the game for the years and it isn´t an exploit. Or have you heard about all these people who got banned because of pre-buffing? Because that is just data ZOS can read out.0 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭If I'm understanding this post correctly ZOS is making it so buffs applied by other sets are removed when the set is unequipped? Correct me if I'm wrong. The OP is kinda unclear about what he's complaining about.
Equipping and unequipping a set just for a buff can go. I don't think its a bad thing but not a good thing either. HOWEVER I think buffs from sets equipped to our backbar shouldn't be removes because we switched bars.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.
Most people inherently understand that society generally frowns upon cheating and don't need it explained to them, or don't need to pretend that they need it explained to them.
Unlike the OP.
It isn´t an exploit, it is changing your gear before the fight started.
Which is fine as long as the first set's buff goes away when you put the second one on.
That is why ZOS fixed the problem
End of.Edited by TequilaFire on February 3, 2021 5:27PM2 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The player I responded to states it is an exploit and chooses to insult the OP with things like ´mental gymnastics´. Funny thing is, it has been in the game for the years and it isn´t an exploit. Or have you heard about all these people who got banned because of pre-buffing? Because that is just data ZOS can read out.
A clearly unintended cheese mechanic has existed for an extended period of time before being addressed, therefore it isn't an exploit
Yep. Mental gymnastics.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most endgame PC NA PVE discords I have browsed are happy about this change. Could just be a matter of sample bias, but I have not actually seen anyone I know being upset by this. Most discussions lead to a desire for ZoS to fix the elfbane destro pre buff.
Most people inherently understand that society generally frowns upon cheating and don't need it explained to them, or don't need to pretend that they need it explained to them.
Unlike the OP.
It isn´t an exploit, it is changing your gear before the fight started.
It isn't just that. It is changing your gear before the fight starts but still retaining the buffs the gear you are no longer wearing. This isn't "You had Balorgh equipped and now you don't" This is "You had Balorgh equipped and procced it and then replaced it with Zaan and still have the Balorgh damage buff and now a completely different monster set doing damage"
Yes, that is true.
The player I responded to states it is an exploit and chooses to insult the OP with things like ´mental gymnastics´. Funny thing is, it has been in the game for the years and it isn´t an exploit. Or have you heard about all these people who got banned because of pre-buffing? Because that is just data ZOS can read out.
Zos doesn't need to ban players to consider something an exploit and fix it. They've identified this as an unintended exploit, and now they have fixed it.
The same thing happened with the stealth detection through add ons. No one was banned, but it was determined to be an unintended exploit, so they fixed it.2
This discussion has been closed.