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Of all things to nerf....
FantasticFreddie
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Prebuffing. Why, in the name of all things holy, target prebuffing.
Let's list the pros and cons of prebuffing, shall we?
PROS:
People farm sets they would not otherwise use.
Because people are farming the sets, you have very skilled players running very old content or in dungeons they would not normally be in, which is great for people not as skilled needing to run that content.
Encourages people to score push, and run content over and over trying to shave seconds off the fight here and there.
Gives the tops of the pve crowd something new to do in the game and more math to do.
CONS:
?????
?
?!?!??!?!
I have no idea. Really, no clue. What are the actual downsides to prebuffing? Why nerf it??
Let's list the pros and cons of prebuffing, shall we?
PROS:
People farm sets they would not otherwise use.
Because people are farming the sets, you have very skilled players running very old content or in dungeons they would not normally be in, which is great for people not as skilled needing to run that content.
Encourages people to score push, and run content over and over trying to shave seconds off the fight here and there.
Gives the tops of the pve crowd something new to do in the game and more math to do.
CONS:
?????
?
?!?!??!?!
I have no idea. Really, no clue. What are the actual downsides to prebuffing? Why nerf it??
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS decided they don't like the concept of prebuffing. It doesn't fit with their ideal game mechanics. It's also unique to pc with addons and is typically only used by top end players so the removal levels the consoles with pc somewhat and lowers the skill ceiling attainable. These could be considered valid reasons for the removal of the mechanic.14 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »ZOS decided they don't like the concept of prebuffing. It doesn't fit with their ideal game mechanics. It's also unique to pc with addons and is typically only used by top end players so the removal levels the consoles with pc somewhat and lowers the skill ceiling attainable. These could be considered valid reasons for the removal of the mechanic.
Having a dressing room and the capability to swap between boss and trash setups at the push of a button cuts whole minutes off a fight and is done by most players once you reach a certain point.
Prebuffing gets you a few seconds, and is almost exclusively done by end game players.
Nerfing prebuffing does nothing to bring PC in line with console, a much smarter choice would be to give build a dressing room system into the UI so console gets it too
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FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Also Zos just not liking the idea of prebuffing is such a sad reason to take it away. The PLAYERS like the idea of prebuffing! It's fun! It literally encourages people to play their game more. Why, after a year of abysmal performance in pve, would you actively discourage people from playing?
And why punish some of the people who invested the most time and effort into your game? Who does that help? Who is this nerf for?
They clearly didn't think this through at all.Edited by FantasticFreddie on February 3, 2021 12:53AM1 -
Rudrani✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »a much smarter choice would be to build a dressing room system into the UI so console gets it too
Yes please.
Take the top 3 addons (which IMO are the dressing room, dot timers, and combat matrix) and make them part of the base game, so XboX and PS4 can stop sitting in the back of the bus.
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FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I mean
LOGS
The ability to actually see your performance and make adjustments and whatnot!
Like, PC has a huge advantage JUST FROM THAT.
And it's not even an addon. Zos did that.2 -
Lephrel✭✭✭✭✭Of all things to complain about...
The prebuffing nerf definitely seems unimportant. Plus it is kind of cheesy, so I can see where zos are coming from.14 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Of all things to complain about...
The prebuffing nerf definitely seems unimportant. Plus it is kind of cheesy, so I can see where zos are coming from.
It's unnecessary. There are so many sets that could use a rework. I'd love to see MORE diversity in the game, not less. Why discourage people from running content, for heavens sake? Haven't they got anything better to do?0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mostly I'm hearing strong approval of removing prebuffing, in the endgame community. Not a lot of people who do it actually like it.4 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why target prebuffing?
Because if you are at all honest you know that it is an unintended cheese mechanic.15 -
Lephrel✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »Of all things to complain about...
The prebuffing nerf definitely seems unimportant. Plus it is kind of cheesy, so I can see where zos are coming from.
It's unnecessary. There are so many sets that could use a rework. I'd love to see MORE diversity in the game, not less. Why discourage people from running content, for heavens sake? Haven't they got anything better to do?
To me, pre buffing is really annoying. And it's not like pre buffing is the only thing that causes more experienced players to run outdated content. There's tons of great sets (mostly for pvp) that can be farmed in dungeons.
Besides, I wouldn't really say pre buffing makes the game more diverse. For starters, only pc can do it and it causes you to use like a couple more sets for 2 seconds before a fight...that's not my idea of more build diversity. I wouldn't mind if they left pre buffing alone, but the cp rework for example is much more worrying, as it will literally break the game imo.3 -
Josira✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »
dear god people actually do that? then again ive heard with that addon its incredibly easy to switch between loadouts but dear god.....that..explains a lot. good riddance to that rubbage then."BlooD FReNZy TicKS aLL thE BoXes of WhaT iT mEanS tO bE a VaMpiRe"15 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »ZOS decided they don't like the concept of prebuffing. It doesn't fit with their ideal game mechanics. It's also unique to pc with addons and is typically only used by top end players so the removal levels the consoles with pc somewhat and lowers the skill ceiling attainable. These could be considered valid reasons for the removal of the mechanic.
Having a dressing room and the capability to swap between boss and trash setups at the push of a button cuts whole minutes off a fight and is done by most players once you reach a certain point.
Prebuffing gets you a few seconds, and is almost exclusively done by end game players.
Nerfing prebuffing does nothing to bring PC in line with console, a much smarter choice would be to give build a dressing room system into the UI so console gets it too
Why does PC need to be in line with console when there is zero cross play?
If both bases played mixed together I would totally get why it would be an issue with one part having a competitive advantage. But as PC and console are totally separate, there is no issue.
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AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@coop500 thanks for asking what is prebuffing. You are not the only one who didn't know. I thought they might be nerfing my sorcs from casting surge or my wardens from casting netch before a fight.
@FantasticFreddy thank you for answering the question but I was confused until you did so.
Whew, changing and swapping gear sets is just not something I do - before a fight, after a fight, for any particular dungeon, etc. Buffing up before a fight with spells? You bet.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo5 -
VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭While I would argue that complaining about the removal of pre-buffing is lame since it really isn’t that important for the game, it brings up the same point about why they chose to get rid of it? What purpose does this serve? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think anyone was complaining about PC players being able to pre-buff to maximize their scores.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Who sets does this in an meaningful way?FantasticFreddie wrote: »
Not sure who effects this have however more of the you can not change skills or items on hotbar while in combat nonsense.
In dungeon as an healer I tend to go more heal focused on the last boss than earlier in dungeon but can not do this if some run straight for the boss.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Auztinito✭✭✭From what I’m hearing is that this is nothing more than a glitch. Does this community think pulling off glitches create build diversity or add skill ceiling to the game? I’m kind of noticing a trend if that is the case.6
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Skcarkden✭✭✭✭Reminds me of the time people cried when ZoS finally responded to some addon that give the user the unfair advantage to know if or when a player was IN STEALTH around them and some other issues with the addon.
"it isn't fair, it's not cheating cause ZoS gave us the ability to make such an addon so it's legit!"7 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
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Who sets does this in an meaningful way?FantasticFreddie wrote: »
Not sure who effects this have however more of the you can not change skills or items on hotbar while in combat nonsense.
In dungeon as an healer I tend to go more heal focused on the last boss than earlier in dungeon but can not do this if some run straight for the boss.
For magicka users, you pair Jorvulds guidance with moondancer, and balorgh monster set.
Hit a synergy to proc moondancer (which will give you either magicka regen or spell damage) then drop your destro ultimate to proc the extra spell damage and penetration from balorgh, then quickly swap to your boss setup.1 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »Of all things to complain about...
The prebuffing nerf definitely seems unimportant. Plus it is kind of cheesy, so I can see where zos are coming from.
It's unnecessary. There are so many sets that could use a rework. I'd love to see MORE diversity in the game, not less. Why discourage people from running content, for heavens sake? Haven't they got anything better to do?
To me, pre buffing is really annoying. And it's not like pre buffing is the only thing that causes more experienced players to run outdated content. There's tons of great sets (mostly for pvp) that can be farmed in dungeons.
Besides, I wouldn't really say pre buffing makes the game more diverse. For starters, only pc can do it and it causes you to use like a couple more sets for 2 seconds before a fight...that's not my idea of more build diversity. I wouldn't mind if they left pre buffing alone, but the cp rework for example is much more worrying, as it will literally break the game imo.
Some of the people I run with really enjoy it. I've never gotten into it myself, but got my DD title and my vHoF clear as a direct result of other people wanting to farm prebuff setups.
With Alkosh doa next patch, and prebuffing nerfed, vMoL will be a dead trial. . . Which is a shame, because it's always been my favorite.0 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭From what I’m hearing is that this is nothing more than a glitch. Does this community think pulling off glitches create build diversity or add skill ceiling to the game? I’m kind of noticing a trend if that is the case.
It's not a glitch. It's just something the developers didn't anticipate.
And since the players apparently aren't allowed to come up with new ways to play the game, zos is taking it away.FantasticFreddie wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »ZOS decided they don't like the concept of prebuffing. It doesn't fit with their ideal game mechanics. It's also unique to pc with addons and is typically only used by top end players so the removal levels the consoles with pc somewhat and lowers the skill ceiling attainable. These could be considered valid reasons for the removal of the mechanic.
Having a dressing room and the capability to swap between boss and trash setups at the push of a button cuts whole minutes off a fight and is done by most players once you reach a certain point.
Prebuffing gets you a few seconds, and is almost exclusively done by end game players.
Nerfing prebuffing does nothing to bring PC in line with console, a much smarter choice would be to give build a dressing room system into the UI so console gets it too
Why does PC need to be in line with console when there is zero cross play?
If both bases played mixed together I would totally get why it would be an issue with one part having a competitive advantage. But as PC and console are totally separate, there is no issue.
I don't see any reason PC and console need to be in line, but the only arguments against prebuffing you hear are "well devs didn't intend it!" and "it isn't fair to console players!!!"
Devs didn't intend for light attack weaving or animation canceling either, and that a basic quality of life thing as a gear preset had to be made by an addon creator rather than in the base game is on zos, not the community.Reminds me of the time people cried when ZoS finally responded to some addon that give the user the unfair advantage to know if or when a player was IN STEALTH around them and some other issues with the addon.
"it isn't fair, it's not cheating cause ZoS gave us the ability to make such an addon so it's legit!"
Apples to oranges. Virtually everyone uses an addon that allows them to quickly swap gear and skill setups, and they have virtually 0 impact on anyone around you.0 -
Auztinito✭✭✭@FantasticFreddie
I'm pretty sure if I made a game that allowed players to use an addition add-on to one-shot bosses. I'd go and fix it so that can't be a thing. It's not build diversity or extra skill. It's an unintended effect which is the nice way of saying a video game bug. I shouldn't have to iterate this but I'm going to.
Bug != Features
Bugs are NOT Features
Lastly, you seem to be under the impression that light weaving adds to the game. It's as shallow as a cantop. Light weaving or animation canceling doesn't add to games. It doesn't change gameplay drastically, it does nothing meaningful outside extra dps. It only exists because it was bug that could not be fixed according to devs. Also, you assume that everyone likes or uses lightweaving when that's far from the case.
Do you assume item duping is a game mechanic in RPGs with randomized loot that involve using a console command or save/load trick involving a loot container. If so, hate to break it to you, that what we call a bug. A glitch. An error. An oversight. A unintended effect.Edited by Auztinito on February 3, 2021 1:50PM3 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@FantasticFreddie
I'm pretty sure if I made a game that allowed players to use an addition add-on to one-shot bosses. I'd go and fix it so that can't be a thing. It's not build diversity or extra skill. It's an unintended effect which is the nice way of saying a video game bug. I shouldn't have to iterate this but I'm going to.
Bug != Features
Bugs are NOT Features
Lastly, you seem to be under the impression that light weaving adds to the game. It's as shallow as a cantop. Light weaving or animation canceling doesn't add to games. It doesn't change gameplay drastically, it does nothing meaningful outside extra dps. It only exists because it was bug that could not be fixed according to devs. Also, you assume that everyone likes or uses lightweaving when that's far from the case.
Do you assume item duping is a game mechanic in RPGs with randomized loot that involve using a console command or save/load trick involving a loot container. If so, hate to break it to you, that what we call a bug. A glitch. An error. An oversight. A unintended effect.
Very sure you don't actually know what prebuffing is.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is strange this exploit came up years ago and they allegedly fixed it then.
Guess like quite a few ESO bugs it came back.
This is just as much an exploit as the mundus stone bug was.Edited by TequilaFire on February 3, 2021 2:06PM1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »ZOS decided they don't like the concept of prebuffing. It doesn't fit with their ideal game mechanics. It's also unique to pc with addons and is typically only used by top end players so the removal levels the consoles with pc somewhat and lowers the skill ceiling attainable. These could be considered valid reasons for the removal of the mechanic.
Having a dressing room and the capability to swap between boss and trash setups at the push of a button cuts whole minutes off a fight and is done by most players once you reach a certain point.
Prebuffing gets you a few seconds, and is almost exclusively done by end game players.
Nerfing prebuffing does nothing to bring PC in line with console, a much smarter choice would be to give build a dressing room system into the UI so console gets it too
Why does PC need to be in line with console when there is zero cross play?
If both bases played mixed together I would totally get why it would be an issue with one part having a competitive advantage. But as PC and console are totally separate, there is no issue.
Because the game is balanced globally, not per platform. And seriously, gaining the bonus of a set when you aren't wearing the set anymore is clearly not something that was ever intended. Especially when you consider, they have been systematically making most sets that provide proc buffs, like clever alchemist, also require you be in combat to use for a while now.4 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are ACTUAL game breaking bugs. Actual, serious bugs that prevent you from playing the game as intended.
Just to name a few: glitching through the wall in CoH2, the door not opening in WS2, the falling animation bug that prevents you from DOING ANYTHING, synergies bugged in Cyrodil, break free using up your stamina but not breaking you free, etc, etc etc etc.
To look at a handful of sets and be like "WOAH, we can't have THAT" is such a huge waste of time, and for what? To nerf the players that are having fun score pushing?0 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »What is strange this exploit came up years ago and they allegedly fixed it then.
Guess like quite a few ESO bugs it came back.
This is just as much an exploit as the mundus stone bug was.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time.
What has a much bigger impact is trash vrs boss setups.
Trash vrs boss setups will still exist.
Also, as far as exploits go.... pretty dang harmless.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »What is strange this exploit came up years ago and they allegedly fixed it then.
Guess like quite a few ESO bugs it came back.
This is just as much an exploit as the mundus stone bug was.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time.
What has a much bigger impact is trash vrs boss setups.
Trash vrs boss setups will still exist.
Also, as far as exploits go.... pretty dang harmless.
Not missing anything, it is an unintended exploit that gives you more "buffs" than was intended, no status effect or proc condition should persist after removal of the item that grants it. Kind of a no brainer.
Edited by TequilaFire on February 3, 2021 2:52PM10 -
preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »What is strange this exploit came up years ago and they allegedly fixed it then.
Guess like quite a few ESO bugs it came back.
This is just as much an exploit as the mundus stone bug was.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time.
What has a much bigger impact is trash vrs boss setups.
Trash vrs boss setups will still exist.
Also, as far as exploits go.... pretty dang harmless.
It mays be anecdotic in PvE.
But it likely can have a huge impact on ganker builds in PvP. (prebuff --> attack !).
now, you'll tell me it's another instance of PvP fix affecting PvE, but ..since it's unintended and obviously a "bug", they might as well fix it.
Also, as you just said :
"Prebuffing has a pretty small impact on dps and trial time"
No problem, then.
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This discussion has been closed.