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ZoS Please Seriousy Consider FORKING the Game

  • RedMuse
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    " For example, priarily solo questers in a random normal with an end-game group PvEer trying to farm transmute crystals."

    And what's to prevent the end-game PvEer from popping over to the causal "fork" to farm? Because I'm telling you they will do that unless something prevents it, since queues will be massively longer especially for DDs.
  • Jaimeh
    Jaimeh
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    ...is this a euphemism for something... :tongue:
    Edited by Jaimeh on January 28, 2021 11:36AM
  • wakeyjimb16_ESO
    wakeyjimb16_ESO
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    Nairinhe wrote: »
    I don't think I've seen this forum so unified as it is right now on this post. I'm practically tearing up. Even if it is to collectively bury someone's idea just because it had the audacity to be utter crap; it brought us all closer together.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/558043/suggestion-overhaul-the-games-loot-system-to-only-drop-what-our-characters-have-points-in

    Ah, warms my heart to see it. Glad to see we can all join as one for the purposes of dunking on something.
  • zaria
    zaria
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    Rudrani wrote: »
    Forking the game dev would be a catastrophically complicated thing to do.

    It's not terribly complicated.

    They already have these four separate game-styles. All they have to do is make them accessable or non-accessable per fork.

    If I log in for solo PvE, there are no dungeon finders, battleground queues, etc. The locations arent even on the map.

    If I log in for group PvE, I start in a hub (like my primary or a designated "group zone" like craglorn), and can fast travel to any of the group instances, or group zones (Craglorn). None of the zones are available for open world.

    If I log in for solo PvP, its similar, I log into a designated spot, like my primary, and can travel from there to battlegrounds or dueling instances / arenas.

    If I log in for group PvP, I log into my home campaign, or some lobby where I can select campaign.

    Its mildly complex, not "catastrophically complicated."
    ...it would effectively quadruple dev costs to no real value.

    A ) It is not 4x as complicated. There is initial restructuring which is a moderately daunting undertaking and after that the whole thing is simplified, and you can balance the stats and skills per fork.

    B ) Value is twofold, as explained in OP, (1) better social experience by keeping birds-of-a-feather together (yo! this IS an MMO), and (2) better performance especially for people who need better performance, thus much better PR via the free publicity from streames and alcasts.
    However that is the purpose for this? How in any way can it improve performance.
    There is a some bottlenecks in ESO.
    1) Cyrodil, no impact here.
    2) login and character swap, will be more of this as people need to change mode all the time.
    3) dungeon finder, no changes except it will probably be less used.

    And I can not quest of farm while waiting for dungeon queue or friends to show up for an dungeon.

    And as other say splitting the game up in various versions will increase development cost and time as many times.
    Its an reason who console and pc version is the same in the bottom.

    Now keeping the game the same does not stop you from putting more stuff into battle spirit as an excample.


    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Sgrug
    Sgrug
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    Please do not, imo this is a terrible suggestion and not good for the game at all.
  • barney2525
    barney2525
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    So, put a Fork in it, because it's done ?

    Let's eat !

    :#
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    Rudrani wrote: »
    Forking the game dev would be a catastrophically complicated thing to do.

    It's not terribly complicated.

    They already have these four separate game-styles. All they have to do is make them accessable or non-accessable per fork.

    If I log in for solo PvE, there are no dungeon finders, battleground queues, etc. The locations arent even on the map.

    If I log in for group PvE, I start in a hub (like my primary or a designated "group zone" like craglorn), and can fast travel to any of the group instances, or group zones (Craglorn). None of the zones are available for open world.

    If I log in for solo PvP, its similar, I log into a designated spot, like my primary, and can travel from there to battlegrounds or dueling instances / arenas.

    If I log in for group PvP, I log into my home campaign, or some lobby where I can select campaign.

    This is not a good idea at all. Right now people queuing for group content, particularly DPS, spend their time doing other things while they wait for a group, like gathering, questing, looking for surveys, shopping around guild traders. You want to take all of that away from them and have them sit idle while their group fills.


    B ) Value is twofold, as explained in OP, (1) better social experience by keeping birds-of-a-feather together (yo! this IS an MMO), and (2) better performance especially for people who need better performance, thus much better PR via the free publicity from streames and alcasts.

    What about us multi-coloured birds?

    Right now, if I'm doing my writs and my guildie logs on and says, "Dungeons A, B and C are the pledges today, who would like to do them?" I can say "Sure, I'll bring a healer, swapping".

    In your scenario, if I'm doing my writs (solo PvE), I would not even be in the same guild as my friend who is logging in to Group PvE.

    And your idea of "group PvE" is also very limited. You should call it "instanced PvE", because we do group stuff in guild all the time that is in the overland zones.

    This would not contribute to a better social experience for anyone who is in a good guild.
    The Moot Councillor
  • PrimusNephilim
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    This would be an absolute logistical nightmare for the Developers, the current coding is already a strain and you're suggesting even more, plus I don't what to have to repec all 18 characters for four different scenarios.

    PN
  • robertthebard
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    Fatal flaw detected:

    I was running Psijic content the other day, and it sent my level 36 NB to Craglorn. Uh oh, Craglorn isn't available, because I'm on the SP server. So I swap to the MP server, but my group doesn't want, or care, about my Psijic quest, and so I can't get it done.

    InB4 "Well, it's too easy to just rewrite the quests". Yeah, no. What's easier is to leave it like it is, and if you're seriously having this much trouble with groups, then you can make a few changes to your grouping strategy, such as forming a premade, with alternates, and run with that.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    No, it's worse than that, you can't even start the quest on the MP server, because it's single player content... and it gets worse.

    Hope you got the Dwemer Wolf Mount before this became a thing, because it's now impossible to obtain, because some parts of it only drop in group content (off of Dungeon final bosses), and other parts only drop in single player content. But, of course, you can't excavate them in the dungeons, and you can't go into the single player zones to excavate them... because, you know, different servers with incompatible code bases.
  • Mettaricana
    Mettaricana
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    Dcuo and black desert kinda already have this. Characters can log in with any character on any server and different rulesets apply to each server one on black desert is where pvp and guild wars happen while other servers are for casual pve and some minor forced pvp. Dcuo has a phase changer that turns world wide pve and pvp on or off in pve mode you can duel and play as you see fit. But on pvp mode all pve content is still there but heroes and villains can attack eachother on sight aka imperial city kinda deal. I would love a pvp fork for eso that allowed all pve content as well as open pvp across world just toss in a toggled attack other players on off button so you don't accidentally kill a random doing his own thing if that wasn't your intention. Could even add zone wide guild capture points that do something beneficial currencies unlocks whatever. And players can duke it out accross all of tamrial. While the pve players just log into the pve server and are left alone to do their pve content dungeons trials farming grinding. With the server load broken up and pvpers scattered across the whole map fighting eachother the lag may be minimal in that content. Make capitol towns pvp safe zones mournhold, wayrest, eldenroot, stonefalls, new wrothgar, kavatch etc but lesser towns say narsis and what not be capture points. It'd be ambitious possibly a whole year expansion to add in but would be hella fun instead of cramming a million zergs into cyrodiil in a war of lag out. Newbie towns already laggy enough with new players and alts. But seperated into their own servers that they can go and play in without restriction would be a great way to revive pvp and pve the servers could even have the battle spirit automatically active on the pvp server except in pve content like trials arenas and dungeons because of course that would make that content stupid easy with bonus health or stupid hard with reduced heals. But let players select what server they wanna log into at character select. And if pvp nerfs are incoming they can add those nerfs or buffs to the pvp server and not the pve server.

    Just my thoughts.
    Edited by Mettaricana on January 28, 2021 5:46PM
  • NettleCarrier
    NettleCarrier
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    Yikes, this is terrible. Plenty of us like to farm/fish while waiting for queues while also being available to hop in Battlegrounds or Trials at a moment's notice. If I had to log in/out every time I wanted to do something different then I'd just quit.
    GM of Gold Coast Corsairs - PCNA
  • RedMuse
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    Dcuo and black desert kinda already have this. Characters can log in with any character on any server and different rulesets apply to each server one on black desert is where pvp and guild wars happen while other servers are for casual pve and some minor forced pvp. Dcuo has a phase changer that turns world wide pve and pvp on or off in pve mode you can duel and play as you see fit. But on pvp mode all pve content is still there but heroes and villains can attack eachother on sight aka imperial city kinda deal. I would love a pvp fork for eso that allowed all pve content as well as open pvp across world just toss in a toggled attack other players on off button so you don't accidentally kill a random doing his own thing if that wasn't your intention. Could even add zone wide guild capture points that do something beneficial currencies unlocks whatever. And players can duke it out accross all of tamrial. While the pve players just log into the pve server and are left alone to do their pve content dungeons trials farming grinding. With the server load broken up and pvpers scattered across the whole map fighting eachother the lag may be minimal in that content. Make capitol towns pvp safe zones mournhold, wayrest, eldenroot, stonefalls, new wrothgar, kavatch etc but lesser towns say narsis and what not be capture points. It'd be ambitious possibly a whole year expansion to add in but would be hella fun instead of cramming a million zergs into cyrodiil in a war of lag out. Newbie towns already laggy enough with new players and alts. But seperated into their own servers that they can go and play in without restriction would be a great way to revive pvp and pve the servers could even have the battle spirit automatically active on the pvp server except in pve content like trials arenas and dungeons because of course that would make that content stupid easy with bonus health or stupid hard with reduced heals. But let players select what server they wanna log into at character select. And if pvp nerfs are incoming they can add those nerfs or buffs to the pvp server and not the pve server.

    Just my thoughts.

    Except that's not what OP is asking for as far as it is even possible to decipher meaning from this wall of text.
  • starkerealm
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    Dcuo and black desert kinda already have this...

    No, they have PvP and PvE servers. Critically, both of those games support open world PvP, and simply flag it off on the PvE servers. In that sense, ESO already does this, with the different Cyrodiil rulesets. The difference being, that's not what the OP was asking for. They wanted completely separate clients. So, that's more in line with some FPSs that separate their PvE and PvP onto entirely different clients.
  • TheImperfect
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    Fork the idea, I think it would make it a hassle to switch from pve to pvp.
  • ankeor
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    This is an MMO, you know that right?
    If you want to play a single player game, go play a single player game.
  • volkeswagon
    volkeswagon
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    Just have two forks. Normal and vet
  • Malkiv
    Malkiv
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    Sounds like everyone is on-board with this idea. When does it start?
    PC-NA | PvP (Gray Host & BGs) | PvE (vTrials & vDGs)
  • Alinhbo_Tyaka
    Alinhbo_Tyaka
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    Forking the game would increase the workload required to update and maintain the game. It will also add complexity that is likely to result in more bugs. Depending upon how the source code is split at a minimum you now have the potential of having to add new function or fix bugs across four code trees. This could be trivial if the code is identical but becomes more complex if they aren't. You will also have to test four versions as opposed to one. Code synchronization will become an issue over time further complicating developing and maintaining the game. This would all come at a cost and result in even less content and game improvement than we currently see. In the end it doesn't make sense from a game development or business perspective to split the product.
  • karekiz
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    I'm confused. Who is going to re-write all the scripts in dungeons/trials to work with one player?

    If it excludes a fully solo world, then why do this at all?
    Edited by karekiz on January 30, 2021 2:07AM
  • Goregrinder
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    So convert the exiting game into a similar model Elite Dangerous uses? Well I don't know how much it would benefit the overall game. I'm sure it would make you happy along with other people. But how would that increase profits for ZOS? How many more dev's salaries would they have to pay in order to support 4 game modes every patch? How much would it increase customer satisfaction? by 300%? Would it cause ESO to jump from 6th most played MMORPG to number 2 or 1? I just don't see how this will help in the long term. It would require a lot of effort and resources from ZOS upfront to make that sort of change, and I don't think the numbers that ZOS follows for metrics show it would improve anything significantly.
  • Sylvermynx
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    Yeah. That's four game modes across three platforms.... lot of devs, lot of time, not much ROI.
  • Uvi_AUT
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    Rudrani wrote: »

    What about us oldschool mmorpgplayers who play everything?
    We dont see any difference between Solo, Group, PvE, PvP, Overland, Dungeon. Its all one game.

    Registered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....
  • LalMirchi
    LalMirchi
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    No forking today or any other day ;)
  • DreamsUnderStars
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    Horrible idea.

    They would have to have four separate departments to run these builds. And then what happens if one of the versions under performs and the monkeysuits in marketing decides it's not worth the money to keep? Players that log in just for that section of the game would get screwed.
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