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Redguard Racial Change
Imnotsurewho
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Ok I know Redguard is getting a small buff to its Adrenaline Rush passive, but the Martial Training passive to reduce weapon skill costs by 8% is seriously horrible. As the race that's supposed to be weapon masters, this is a really trash passive. Most weapon skills aren't expensive enough for this 8% to really make enough of a difference to be legitimately effective and compete with other classes. In theory, Redguards should be getting such sustain that they can go for damage from other sources, but that's really just not the case.
I don't want them overtuned, but so few people are playing them in PvP because they're so easily outperformed by most other races (Orc, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, possibly High Elf now) so I just want them to get a bit more love than they received so far.
Edited by Imnotsurewho on January 28, 2021 1:14AM I don't want them overtuned, but so few people are playing them in PvP because they're so easily outperformed by most other races (Orc, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, possibly High Elf now) so I just want them to get a bit more love than they received so far.
Howahkan au Eyanosa - Redguard Stamina Nightblade - AR50
Lead moron of Dat One Guild - No-CP PvP guild
11
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm pleased to see our Bosmer friends ascend but it's lonely to be a Redguard at the very bottom of the racial ranks.
We can still hang out with Argonians and Khajiits though.8 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lol you jest about altmer but they legit do more damage than redguards if there are no further changes along with having a larger off stat pool and off stat regen. 258 wd > 2000 stam. This is laughable7 -
sabresandiego_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭15% snare reduction should be swapped for something usefulAli Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade2 -
Wikter_Bravo✭✭✭Hi,I'm Micheal Jordan and I approve of this message.Edited by Wikter_Bravo on January 28, 2021 2:16AM1 -
Kory✭✭✭✭I do not understand why Redguard passives are so bad. 15% reduction to snare effectiveness is not nearly enough to what snares do. If stamina sustain is the idea then why is the Martial training passive a meager 8% (Reduces the cost of weapon abilities) ?2 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Imnotsurewho wrote: »Ok I know Redguard is getting a small buff to its Adrenaline Rush passive, but the Martial Training passive to reduce weapon skill costs by 8% is seriously horrible. As the race that's supposed to be weapon masters, this is a really trash passive. Most weapon skills aren't expensive enough for this 8% to really make enough of a difference to be legitimately effective and compete with other classes. In theory, Redguards should be getting such sustain that they can go for damage from other sources, but that's really just not the case.
I don't want them overtuned, but so few people are playing them in PvP because they're so easily outperformed by most other races (Orc, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, possibly High Elf now) so I just want them to get a bit more love than they received so far.
At least it's good for hybrids. It reduces the cost of staff skills as well.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Imnotsurewho wrote: »Ok I know Redguard is getting a small buff to its Adrenaline Rush passive, but the Martial Training passive to reduce weapon skill costs by 8% is seriously horrible. As the race that's supposed to be weapon masters, this is a really trash passive. Most weapon skills aren't expensive enough for this 8% to really make enough of a difference to be legitimately effective and compete with other classes. In theory, Redguards should be getting such sustain that they can go for damage from other sources, but that's really just not the case.
I don't want them overtuned, but so few people are playing them in PvP because they're so easily outperformed by most other races (Orc, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, possibly High Elf now) so I just want them to get a bit more love than they received so far.
At least it's good for hybrids. It reduces the cost of staff skills as well.
Literally any other race would be better.
Edit even argonian would be better.Edited by JobooAGS on January 28, 2021 3:07AM6 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I had an idea earlier. What if Redguards get a different bonus depending on what weapon they are using?
Critical, Weapon/Spell damage, Offensive pen, block cost reduction etc. Plenty of possibilities.
I feel that could fit them quite well and even opens them up to different specs, which is something ZOS seems to be doing right now with Argonians, Orcs and Altmer.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.7 -
ke.sardenb14_ESO✭✭✭sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »15% snare reduction should be swapped for something useful
I don't pvp, but I will say when tanking and doing solo arenas, I notice the difference in the snare effects.
I do think redguards should have more damage in their kit, and would make sense if it was a buff to weapon abilities, or a larger stam pool. But, I'd also be fine with them having a flat 8% cost reduction rather then 8% for weapon abilities.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭I had an idea earlier. What if Redguards get a different bonus depending on what weapon they are using?
Critical, Weapon/Spell damage, Offensive pen, block cost reduction etc. Plenty of possibilities.
I feel that could fit them quite well and even opens them up to different specs, which is something ZOS seems to be doing right now with Argonians, Orcs and Altmer.
This will be interesting2 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It does seem like they’re a little underpowered now, since the 8% cost reduction passive has become so limiting. Redguards were pretty good when everyone was using Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Twin Slashes, Blade Cloak, Steel Tornado, and a weapon spammable. Now most of these skills aren’t even slotted, and every stamina class has a class spammable these days.1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »It does seem like they’re a little underpowered now, since the 8% cost reduction passive has become so limiting. Redguards were pretty good when everyone was using Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Twin Slashes, Blade Cloak, Steel Tornado, and a weapon spammable. Now most of these skills aren’t even slotted, and every stamina class has a class spammable these days.
I fortold this future back in 2019 or whenever Murkmire was.. no one listened. As the game progresses and we get more and more skills outside of weapon lines the passive becomes more and more irrelevant than it originally was to begin with. When RG was the meta(before race changes), more than 50% of our rotation was spent on weapon skills.
Since then.. we've gotten new skills to use like Silver Shards, Crushing Weapon, Soul Trap, Class Skills like DK's Poop Fist, Sorc's Crystal Weapon and Bound Armaments, Warden's Flies and Birds becoming more viable and I'm sure there is more I'm not remembering.. and it's only going to get worse the more viable class skills get (as they should, but this also pushes skills out like Poison Injection and Twin Slashes).
Why not just make it a stamina cost reduction for all abilities in the same way Breton's behave? I know they did it this way to make them unique and I KNOW they tried to highlight the fact that it reduces weapon ultimates and helps magicka weapons.. but it's so damn niche they've become one of, if not the worst stamina race, especially now that stamina sustain in pve is going to be a joke with the CP/base stat changes (no need to have max stam/hp food, just use stam/stam regen food).
Sad to see the once strong race become so lame they're worse than a magicka race like High Elf, who would of thought?
Edited by MashmalloMan on January 28, 2021 9:24PM4 -
Rhygam✭✭✭Noone uses Redguard if not for RP reasons nowadays. As most people know, weapon skills are already quite cheap. A marginal skill cost reduction, that is percentage based, does just no change to a cheap skill. And redguards are lorewise poison resistent weapon masters. Sadly nothing of this can be seen in eso AT ALL. A damage boost would be actually nice, or something similiar. I know, many people will not care about this thread as at this point red guards are just a niche. But @ZOS_GinaBruno, many people do care, and for sure more people would use redguards, especially in pvp, if they'd get a boost.1 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Id gladly exchange the 8% cost reduction and the snare for 6-10% more damage with weapon abilities1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Id gladly exchange the 8% cost reduction and the snare for 6-10% more damage with weapon abilities
That sounds a little much... but then again it would make Redguard setups a thing which use weapon abilities as spammables and are only viable on Redguards. So more build diversity!
Just be prepared to become the target of PvP rage when all Snipe gankers are now Redguards.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Id gladly exchange the 8% cost reduction and the snare for 6-10% more damage with weapon abilities
That sounds a little much... but then again it would make Redguard setups a thing which use weapon abilities as spammables and are only viable on Redguards. So more build diversity!
Just be prepared to become the target of PvP rage when all Snipe gankers are now Redguards.
snipe is getting reworked, and although I need to do more testing on it, so far it shouldn't be as much as a problem as now or before0 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭They were already basically the lowest stamina race on the totem pole. Now they're somehow worse off.
Both stamina and magicka have lost a 20% multiplier.
Stamina buffs are now weaker, and by extension stamina regen buffs have less costly trade-offs. Weapon damage on the other hand retained basically all of its multipliers.
Using Artaeum Takeaway Broth instead of Braised Rabbit is less of a damage sacrifice. And the lost health with tristat food, does that even matter anymore? I would venture to guess not, not that any orc or dunmer really needed any more regen with a properly buffed group. Your character starts with 17k health now without any food instead of 10k on live, so why wouldn't Orcs, dark elves, high elves use lavafoot for way more regen than they'll ever need in PVE? Or slot braised Rabbit for 23k health since they don't need the regen to begin with, and things might be hitting them harder with the update.
Regen is really cheap in PVE. Now everyone has access to a "vicious ophedian" or "false god" equivalent CP.Edited by MudcrabAttack on January 29, 2021 4:45PM0 -
redguard sorc tank has crazy low weapon costs, I love it. Shield wall ult is really cheap. It isn't useful and it isn't the best race but I like it. I would say keep the weapon cost reduction, and add 2 seconds to all weapon skill durations (within reason, you don't want longer taunt durations). This would give them more identity as weapon masters, and give them interesting build rotations. They can take or leave the snare reduction1
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Ascarl✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm pleased to see our Bosmer friends ascend but it's lonely to be a Redguard at the very bottom of the racial ranks.
We can still hang out with Argonians and Khajiits though.
While I don t really believe in the Bosmer ascencion, the is sad but true. Khajiit got even worse because of the crit nerf (which is nowhere offset by another 2%crit damage/healing).
The crazy thing is that the BiS races have even been pushed (High elves got a better spell recharge and now both weapona nd spell damage, Orcs got crazy self healing on damge compareable to crit surge or briarheart on top of being already BiS)1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm pleased to see our Bosmer friends ascend but it's lonely to be a Redguard at the very bottom of the racial ranks.
We can still hang out with Argonians and Khajiits though.
While I don t really believe in the Bosmer ascencion, the is sad but true. Khajiit got even worse because of the crit nerf (which is nowhere offset by another 2%crit damage/healing).
The crazy thing is that the BiS races have even been pushed (High elves got a better spell recharge and now both weapona nd spell damage, Orcs got crazy self healing on damge compareable to crit surge or briarheart on top of being already BiS)
High Elf still gives you resources for your off resource, not your main. It's still pretty much useless for the context we're mostly referring to here (pve dps), it was solid in pvp for classes like sorc and templar on live, but more viable for every class now since it's no longer tied to class skills, so it's nice, but I wouldn't call those changes over the top. Just a nice quality of life update.
Orc's healing passive was always garbage and should of been at least 2k to start, don't forget they previously had +20% hp regen so the trade was a huge nerf to specific builds. It's nice for pve because you can have a passive source of healing received for solo content, but anything else you will never notice it. For pvp thats only 1k health every 4s, compared to the previous 250 health every 4s so it is a pretty good buff, but yeah.. with 1k less stamina all their heals are going to heal less anyway so thats offset.
The Orc healing is nowhere close to the strength of Crit Surge, you can't compare 3.3k healing every second, that can crit as well to 2k healing every 4s. I'm not sure if it can crit, my guess is it can't since it's a racial passive, but correct me if I'm wrong. So for Sorc you get like 4-5k hp a second, for orc thats 500 hp a second and thats an average, not actually per second making it not very reliable.
Looking at my orc like... why would I need 1k hp now when everyone can hit 17k hp for just existing. They kinda butchered the pve balance and it looks like the only worthwhile race for pve dps is Dark Elf.
RG and Wood Elf are pointless with CP and sustain parse foods, at least before you had a reason to pick them. Orc is just a weaker version of Dark Elf, Khajit is even worse than it was before with crit nerfs and same reason as RG/Woold Elf, they no longer see any relevant gains for their bonuses to HP/Regen since those are completely negated with the changes.
So they went from a robust cast of options to... 1, Dark Elf.Edited by MashmalloMan on January 29, 2021 11:33PM2 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭MashmalloMan wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm pleased to see our Bosmer friends ascend but it's lonely to be a Redguard at the very bottom of the racial ranks.
We can still hang out with Argonians and Khajiits though.
While I don t really believe in the Bosmer ascencion, the is sad but true. Khajiit got even worse because of the crit nerf (which is nowhere offset by another 2%crit damage/healing).
The crazy thing is that the BiS races have even been pushed (High elves got a better spell recharge and now both weapona nd spell damage, Orcs got crazy self healing on damge compareable to crit surge or briarheart on top of being already BiS)
High Elf still gives you resources for your off resource, not your main. It's still pretty much useless for the context we're mostly referring to here (pve dps), it was solid in pvp for classes like sorc and templar on live, but more viable for every class now since it's no longer tied to class skills, so it's nice, but I wouldn't call those changes over the top. Just a nice quality of life update.
Orc's healing passive was always garbage and should of been at least 2k to start, don't forget they previously had +20% hp regen so the trade was a huge nerf to specific builds. It's nice for pve because you can have a passive source of healing received for solo content, but anything else you will never notice it. For pvp thats only 1k health every 4s, compared to the previous 250 health every 4s so it is a pretty good buff, but yeah.. with 1k less stamina all their heals are going to heal less anyway so thats offset.
The Orc healing is nowhere close to the strength of Crit Surge, you can't compare 3.3k healing every second, that can crit as well to 2k healing every 4s. I'm not sure if it can crit, my guess is it can't since it's a racial passive, but correct me if I'm wrong. So for Sorc you get like 4-5k hp a second, for orc thats 500 hp a second and thats an average, not actually per second making it not very reliable.
Looking at my orc like... why would I need 1k hp now when everyone can hit 17k hp for just existing. They kinda butchered the pve balance and it looks like the only worthwhile race for pve dps is Dark Elf.
RG and Wood Elf are pointless with CP and sustain parse foods, at least before you had a reason to pick them. Orc is just a weaker version of Dark Elf, Khajit is even worse than it was before with crit nerfs and same reason as RG/Woold Elf, they no longer see any relevant gains for their bonuses to HP/Regen since those are completely negated with the changes.
So they went from a robust cast of options to... 1, Dark Elf.
Well there are more pts patches remaining so there's that at least0 -
Ascarl✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »I'm pleased to see our Bosmer friends ascend but it's lonely to be a Redguard at the very bottom of the racial ranks.
We can still hang out with Argonians and Khajiits though.
While I don t really believe in the Bosmer ascencion, the is sad but true. Khajiit got even worse because of the crit nerf (which is nowhere offset by another 2%crit damage/healing).
The crazy thing is that the BiS races have even been pushed (High elves got a better spell recharge and now both weapona nd spell damage, Orcs got crazy self healing on damge compareable to crit surge or briarheart on top of being already BiS)
High Elf still gives you resources for your off resource, not your main. It's still pretty much useless for the context we're mostly referring to here (pve dps), it was solid in pvp for classes like sorc and templar on live, but more viable for every class now since it's no longer tied to class skills, so it's nice, but I wouldn't call those changes over the top. Just a nice quality of life update.
Orc's healing passive was always garbage and should of been at least 2k to start, don't forget they previously had +20% hp regen so the trade was a huge nerf to specific builds. It's nice for pve because you can have a passive source of healing received for solo content, but anything else you will never notice it. For pvp thats only 1k health every 4s, compared to the previous 250 health every 4s so it is a pretty good buff, but yeah.. with 1k less stamina all their heals are going to heal less anyway so thats offset.
The Orc healing is nowhere close to the strength of Crit Surge, you can't compare 3.3k healing every second, that can crit as well to 2k healing every 4s. I'm not sure if it can crit, my guess is it can't since it's a racial passive, but correct me if I'm wrong. So for Sorc you get like 4-5k hp a second, for orc thats 500 hp a second and thats an average, not actually per second making it not very reliable.
Looking at my orc like... why would I need 1k hp now when everyone can hit 17k hp for just existing. They kinda butchered the pve balance and it looks like the only worthwhile race for pve dps is Dark Elf.
RG and Wood Elf are pointless with CP and sustain parse foods, at least before you had a reason to pick them. Orc is just a weaker version of Dark Elf, Khajit is even worse than it was before with crit nerfs and same reason as RG/Woold Elf, they no longer see any relevant gains for their bonuses to HP/Regen since those are completely negated with the changes.
So they went from a robust cast of options to... 1, Dark Elf.
High Elf has ever been a strong option despite the off-resource regeneration IMHO.
In regards to Orc. Orc has been the top advise from almost all TESO build webpages since the last racial rework. On top of the ressoureces the speed bonus is even handy in PVE and more valuable in PVP.
For crit surge vs new Orc racial. With the crit nerfs I expect most builds both magicka and stamina to switch from crit sets to DOT or pure WD/SP sets. Therefore the "on crit" trigger condition on crit surge will be far lower than today.
In the end Orc IMHO was not a good choice for buffing races. They should have rather rather buffed races that have been labeled as "also viable choices" instead those that have been labeled best in slot from most websites.1