I'm still amazed they took away our rapids so they could sell alliance war pots

Kiralyn2000 · January 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker.

I've still never used that skill, across 8 characters. I never heard anyone talk about how it was "required" for questing/pve/etc, until they made the change. Then, all of a sudden, it was the Most Important Skill Evar!™ /meh

Kwoung · January 2021

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker.

I've still never used that skill, across 8 characters. I never heard anyone talk about how it was "required" for questing/pve/etc, until they made the change. Then, all of a sudden, it was the Most Important Skill Evar!™ /meh

Same, didn't even know it existed until I started dabbling in PVP, then saw the need when riding across Cyrodiil. Not needed at all for PVE. Heck, you can port to pretty much anywhere you need to go and be like 1 min away even if on foot, once you get your mount to 60 speed, its not needed at all in PVE. Most of the times outside of Cyro, I feel its more trouble than its worth as the addons to swap it in bug out half the time... and I don't want to give up a skill slot for it.

Kwoung · January 2021

And since I just saw his post...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/541183/worlds-first-grand-overlord-under-level-50

68k AP/hr average just repairing walls in Cyro, no PVP required. Apparently he got very good at it, because by my calc's ~75k AP/hr is max with no event bonuses, just running the AP buff from delves.

Grega · January 2021

CSose wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker. The audacity is amazing. I know they wont do anything about it, just in awe.

Just forget rapids. Get ring of wild hunt, and you’ll be faster, for longer and without need to spend stamina to cast a skill. 👍🏻

That requires purchasing additional expansions for most. (using real money, not in game gold)

Yeah but with greymoor being on sale twice already for 70% off I don’t think that’s really an issue for many. On the flip side, in few months it will be added in the store as DLC and then it is purchasable with gold through the crown gifting 🤷‍♂️

Pauwer · January 2021

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker.

I've still never used that skill, across 8 characters. I never heard anyone talk about how it was "required" for questing/pve/etc, until they made the change. Then, all of a sudden, it was the Most Important Skill Evar!™ /meh

Same for me, i started out as a pve questing stamblade and ran all the quests on all lands before i even looked at pvp and had any knowledge of vigor or rapids. I have never seen anyone cast rapids in pve, nor do i use it myself in pve. In cyro i only use it on chars that don't have high riding speed. It feels a waste of skill slot, even tho it would be most useful in cyro. But often there just is no space. Only used in times of emergency. Wish they would make it into a horse passive or something.

Michae · January 2021

I barely use rapids. I use heals all the time. Rapids are the convinience, you can still get around, just a little slower. Why are you in such a hurry anyway? Heals are often essential. If you want to run dungeons, especially solo, do trials, or even Battlegrounds self heal is a must. That's why they moved it.

FrancisCrawford · January 2021

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker.

I've still never used that skill, across 8 characters. I never heard anyone talk about how it was "required" for questing/pve/etc, until they made the change. Then, all of a sudden, it was the Most Important Skill Evar!™ /meh

I rarely do crafting writs without Rapids or a similar buff. (That was especially when it was better pre-nerf, but still is mainly the case.)

PizzaCat82 · January 2021

Rapids was super helpful when you're skyshard hunting to level alts. Need to get to the next skyshard? Mount up. Need to get through this delve to get to the skyshard? RAPIDS.

I feel sorry for people that didn't. Sounds like they got to level 50 without a lot of skill points.

I never heard anyone talk about how it was "required" for questing/pve/etc, until they made the change. Then, all of a sudden, it was the Most Important Skill Evar!™ /meh"

Because most people don't talk about skills they use to level, its just not conversational. However, losing it, is quite the topic, because it DOES affect people. People who were USING it.

Heals are often essential. If you want to run dungeons, especially solo, do trials, or even Battlegrounds self heal is a must. That's why they moved it.

Most classes have a self heal. I've never need vigor on a DK, Templar, Warden, Sorceror, Necro, and Magblade. The only class that probably could have used one is Stamblade. That's a lot of alts wondering where their rapids went.

Tandor · January 2021

redspecter23 wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

It is easy to get assault rank 5, therefore I do not think that this was marketing decision.

Easy is relative and also amplified by the number of toons that this change inconveniences. I had all my toons to rank 10 before this change was announced, but I'm aware that I'm an outlier. This game is targeting a larger, casual audience. Anyone that plays a few hours a week with multiple toons and also doesn't enjoy pvp got a massive nerf with this change. Being aware of the impact on others, while being unaffected yourself can be helpful when examining the whole picture.

Many in this thread have stated how easy it is to get it back while glossing over the fact that it was taken away in the first place when it didn't have to be. A decision was made to do that, as well as add alliance rank pots simultaneously. We also have the ability to buy rank 10 if one toon has it already. ZOS may not have had any ill intent when making these combined changes, but how people choose to view it is up to them. ZOS hopefully is aware of the optics of the situation whether or not they were intentionally trying to upset players.

Not necessarily. I personally find Vigor much more useful on my characters than Rapids which none of my characters has ever used, so for me as a non-PvPer with a few APs from daily login rewards the change was a big improvement.

Kwoung · January 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Rapids was super helpful when you're skyshard hunting to level alts. Need to get to the next skyshard? Mount up. Need to get through this delve to get to the skyshard? RAPIDS.

I feel sorry for people that didn't. Sounds like they got to level 50 without a lot of skill points.

Nope, got 50 on every character with tons of skill points before discovering rapids. Wasn't worth the trouble to mount up most of the time, as you are dismounting for books, harvests, treasure chests, bags, mini-dolmens, etc... constantly. There is a lot more than skillpoints to get when leveling up, and mages, fighters guild & ledgermain rate pretty high on the list for me.

Mount, cast rapids, dismount 2 seconds later for a book, mount, cast rapids, dismount 3 seconds later for a chest, mount, get agro, stuck with rapids on the bar and lost my heal in slot 5... No thanks, what a waste of time, got there faster/safer sprinting on foot.

Eedat · January 2021

Really comes down to this. Rapids is a convenience spell. Vigor is pretty much required for a lot of stam builds.

Honestly they should just get rid of rapids and make it the base mount speed. The mount system has been in desparate need of an overhaul since ever.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker. The audacity is amazing. I know they wont do anything about it, just in awe.

Seriously? It takes WAY less time to earn Rapids than pretty much any other useful skill lines in the game (Psijic / Mages anyone?),I earned it on my last alt in about 3 hours of solo play in Cyrodiil, and made enough AP to buy a monster helm in the process.

FYI, you can do it in about 5 hours just repairing walls/doors.

[Edit to remove bait]

I can get rapids ungrouped and probably blindfolded on a new toon with unmatched crap level 3 gear in under 2 hours.

It took me about 4 years to get undaunted high enough for the bonuses on one toon.

Getting undaunted leveled is a horrific awful time consuming slog if you don’t like doing dungeons more than once or twice.

Sinolai · January 2021

Grega wrote: »

kapachia wrote: »

No conspiracy. I think more ppl use vigor than rapid in PvE.

Maybe a conspiracy to help PvE players.

I agree. Especially since they nerfed rapids to only last 7 seconds and added ring of the hunt....I feel like the switch for vigor was a smart one. So very few people use rapids now because they’re nerfed.

I have addon to slot rapid with 1 button press when ever I need to refresh the speed. +only on foot speed was changed. Gallop still lasts longer.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

Eedat wrote: »

Really comes down to this. Rapids is a convenience spell. Vigor is pretty much required for a lot of stam builds.

Honestly they should just get rid of rapids and make it the base mount speed. The mount system has been in desparate need of an overhaul since ever.

I use rapids for everything. EVERYTHING. Quite often I use it while not mounted for everything from running between crafting stations for writ making, to playing catch up when I cannot mount. I basically play ESO on fast forward at all times.

To your point, ESO is way too slow of a game already. Making rapids something that someone has to choose to equip makes them make a decision and promotes build diversity. We need as much build diversity as possible.

Kiralyn2000 · January 2021

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker.

I've still never used that skill, across 8 characters. I never heard anyone talk about how it was "required" for questing/pve/etc, until they made the change. Then, all of a sudden, it was the Most Important Skill Evar!™ /meh

I rarely do crafting writs without Rapids or a similar buff. (That was especially when it was better pre-nerf, but still is mainly the case.)

I do my writs in Vivec or Alinor. Everything is right there, no real travel required. /shrug

And I rarely saw anyone using Rapids. Every once in awhile, I'd see it - like during Jester's Festival while running from the Wayshrine to the College of Elf Racism: a bunch of people would mount up and ride to the college, and every so often one of them would go faster. It certainly wasn't even 50%. So I know there were a heck of a lot of people out there PvE'ing without the 'required' Rapids.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker.

I've still never used that skill, across 8 characters. I never heard anyone talk about how it was "required" for questing/pve/etc, until they made the change. Then, all of a sudden, it was the Most Important Skill Evar!™ /meh

I rarely do crafting writs without Rapids or a similar buff. (That was especially when it was better pre-nerf, but still is mainly the case.)

I do my writs in Vivec or Alinor. Everything is right there, no real travel required. /shrug

And I rarely saw anyone using Rapids. Every once in awhile, I'd see it - like during Jester's Festival while running from the Wayshrine to the College of Elf Racism: a bunch of people would mount up and ride to the college, and every so often one of them would go faster. It certainly wasn't even 50%. So I know there were a heck of a lot of people out there PvE'ing without the 'required' Rapids.

I remember once grouping with some randoms in Cyrodiil and one guy said “oh THEDKEXPERIENCE! You’re famous for your rapid maneuvers!”

I just replied “I am?”

I use them so much that I don’t even notice that no one else apparently uses them. Being called famous for it kind of blew my mind.

renne · January 2021

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

I don’t understand why people are so upset about this. It’s not that long of a grind doing battlegrounds to unlock this skill. It’s a lot less work than doing the many pve grinds like psjic, mages guild, and undaunted. All which have skills useful for PvP that we have to grind.

I love Battlegrounds, love letting the 3 other people who have no choice but to be grouped with me down constantly because I'm no good and don't like Battlegrounds, just so I can level to get back a skill that I already had. I'm sure they love carrying me through to absolute minimum AP because we're certainly not winning while I'm in there roleplaying carpet.

redspecter23 · January 2021

Eedat wrote: »

Really comes down to this. Rapids is a convenience spell. Vigor is pretty much required for a lot of stam builds.

Honestly they should just get rid of rapids and make it the base mount speed. The mount system has been in desparate need of an overhaul since ever.

I can get behind this idea. Abolish rapids completely and just add it to base mount speed. I'm a bit tired of running faster than my mount for the first week or two of feeding anyway.

If players still want an aoe speed boost for times when they are unmounted, rapids can be reworked to do that perhaps with a small bonus compared to what it has now as it wouldn't be beneficial for mounts anymore.

Sylvermynx · January 2021

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Actually.... all you have to do is sit tight and collect AP from the daily rewards. Sure it takes a little time.

I think by "a little time" you mean "several years per character".

I know that enough AP has been passed out through Daily Rewards in the history of the game to get a single character to Rank 4 in the PvP skill lines. But has there been enough yet to get one to Rank 5?

Both my mains on PC NA (400+ CP) are at level 5, and have been for some time. I think level 5 happened about a year ago now.

Of course, I don't really care anything about pvp levels, or the rapids/vigor fuss.

zvavi · January 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

CSose wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker. The audacity is amazing. I know they wont do anything about it, just in awe.

Just forget rapids. Get ring of wild hunt, and you’ll be faster, for longer and without need to spend stamina to cast a skill. 👍🏻

That requires purchasing additional expansions for most. (using real money, not in game gold)

They have free ESO+ a couple/few times a year, no payment required. They are literally giving it to you for free... right now as you posted. You can also buy any DLC for in game gold, no real world money required.

Sadly you are wrong. Antiquities are part of the greymoor chapter it is not free with ESO+ (or purchasable in crown store) as it is not dlc yet. so Ring of the Wild Hunt is locked behind a paywall.

Hurbster · January 2021

I've said all I am ever going to say on this subject. I'm happy playing other games now.

Tandor · January 2021

Hurbster wrote: »

I've said all I am ever going to say on this subject. I'm happy playing other games now.

Which explains why you're still here, posting on this subject

!

renne · January 2021

I've noticed there's a lot of people who're still on the forums for a game they allegedly don't play anymore apparently so they can brag they don't play the game anymore (but are apparently still obsessed enough with the game they totally definitely don't play anymore to comment on the forum specifically for the game they ABSOLUTELY, honest to god don't play anymore).

starkerealm · January 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I've got 6 alts that get to grind in Cyro now just so they can quest quicker. The audacity is amazing. I know they wont do anything about it, just in awe.

Seriously? It takes WAY less time to earn Rapids than pretty much any other useful skill lines in the game (Psijic / Mages anyone?),I earned it on my last alt in about 3 hours of solo play in Cyrodiil, and made enough AP to buy a monster helm in the process.

FYI, you can do it in about 5 hours just repairing walls/doors.

[Edit to remove bait]

I'll die on the hill of Psijic. That questline gets more tedious each time I run it, but it is stupidly fast once you know where to go, and can bounce from rift to rift by rote.

Only thing faster than Psijic is Werewolf. You can go from 2 to 10 in one transform if you're experienced enough with how to play a wolf.

So, figure 60 - 90 minutes for a wolf with a good loop, 90-120 minutes for Psijic. But it is tedious, and it feels much longer than getting to Assault/Support 5 (or 6.)

That said, this does flip if you've got a Pelinal's scroll burning. In that case you can probably hit Assault 6 in 30 minutes. Actually, burn one of the new alliance scrolls, fire up a Pelinals, and you can probably get to Assault 6 from just doing the tutorial mission.

Varana · January 2021

Just as a PSA:

ZOS may have made the connection between pushing Vigor forward and Rapids back in the skill line.

But that was their choice. There was no necessity to do it that way.
Whatever they did with Vigor, has absolutely nothing to do with the change to Rapids.

They could have kept Rapids where it was - meaning that you unlocked two skills at the same Assault level. Wouldn't have hurt anyone.
They could have pushed Rapids to level 3 - still possible to get very quickly, iirc even just with the Cyrodiil intro and the hammer tutorial. Wouldn't have hurt anyone.

Pushing Rapids that far back was their choice and, again, was not a necessary consequence of having Vigor earlier in the skill line.
Statements to the contrary are ... misleading (a.k.a lies).

renne · January 2021

They could have put rapids in the support line if they were so desperate to keep it an alliance war skill. If it had to be in either line THAT makes more sense than assault. But yeah, they chose to have both skills unlock first.

Elvenheart · January 2021

Well, I was in the group of people unhappy about the change to Rapids and begged for them to find another way to give us Vigor sooner WITHOUT us having to lose Rapids. And I must say they did better than any of the alternatives that were proposed in all the threads about it by moving Major Gallop to be a passive of Continuous Attacks AND making Major Gallop a set bonus on a crafted set! Not what I was expecting, much better than having to bar a skill and cast it every 30 seconds! Thank you ZOS for listening to your players. I pray that anyone who was so upset at losing Rapids that they quit the game finds out about these changes and come back home to Tamriel! 😊

PizzaCat82 · January 2021

Yeah I'm happy with how they handled it now. I can get rapids on all of my alts now.

nukk3r · January 2021

Elvenheart wrote: »

Well, I was in the group of people unhappy about the change to Rapids and begged for them to find another way to give us Vigor sooner WITHOUT us having to lose Rapids. And I must say they did better than any of the alternatives that were proposed in all the threads about it by moving Major Gallop to be a passive of Continuous Attacks AND making Major Gallop a set bonus on a crafted set! Not what I was expecting, much better than having to bar a skill and cast it every 30 seconds! Thank you ZOS for listening to your players. I pray that anyone who was so upset at losing Rapids that they quit the game finds out about these changes and come back home to Tamriel! 😊

Continuous Attack is an Assault rank 9 passive. There's nothing in the patch notes about moving it lower.

Robo_Hobo · January 2021

nukk3r wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

Well, I was in the group of people unhappy about the change to Rapids and begged for them to find another way to give us Vigor sooner WITHOUT us having to lose Rapids. And I must say they did better than any of the alternatives that were proposed in all the threads about it by moving Major Gallop to be a passive of Continuous Attacks AND making Major Gallop a set bonus on a crafted set! Not what I was expecting, much better than having to bar a skill and cast it every 30 seconds! Thank you ZOS for listening to your players. I pray that anyone who was so upset at losing Rapids that they quit the game finds out about these changes and come back home to Tamriel! 😊

Continuous Attack is an Assault rank 9 passive. There's nothing in the patch notes about moving it lower.

You just need the first rank of continuous attack for the major gallop permanent effect, not rank 2, so it can be obtained at assault rank 3. Tested this just now on the PTS before posting this to make sure.