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Dark elf indirectly nerfed hard.
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Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You want to know which races should be complaining?
Literally every sustain race. With 16k max health all PvE dps will be running parse food in trials instead of 2 stat.5 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I play dunmer because I am fickle and swap between mag and stam builds often. So no real nerf there.
But, now I have to really, really hard look at Altmer.3 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Dunmer have always been inferior to the glorious Altmer. it's a proven scientific fact.
I dont mind the altmer being better magicka dps. I am furious over their hybridization options. Dunmer and khajit were the hybrid races. That uniqueness is lost. Altmer with their off regen will be logically better hybrid dps. And orcs with their new heal(yes it's a big deal in a fight) will have tremendous staying power in battle.
In PvE you get sustain from healers/synergies so sustain passives are heavily ignored in favor of raw damage/max stats like weapon damage/stamina.
If sustain passives mattered so much for DPS, Breton would be the best at magicka DPS and that is not the case at all.
These "buffs" to Orc and High Elf do not negatively affect Dark Elf's position in the DPS rankings, and in fact may push Dark Elf to number one in stamina DPS.7 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Pve is only half the game. The other half is pvp and the altmer and orc are getting significant buffs. Same Stat sustain is subpar yes... thats why the altmer off Stat regen is so significant. And orc heal in current tank meta with high self healing also is very significant in pvp. Now they get both mag and stam dps making the significantly better pvp hybrid fighters than dunmer were.1
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Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dunmer are the best stam dps race now. They are a better magicka dps race than they were before. An Orc that wants to be a mag DPS is no competition for a Dunmer, an Altmer that wants to be stam DPS is no competition for a Dunmer. They are still the best when it comes to being flexible but now they are better at each individually too.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.6 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dunmer are the best stam dps race now. They are a better magicka dps race than they were before. An Orc that wants to be a mag DPS is no competition for a Dunmer, an Altmer that wants to be stam DPS is no competition for a Dunmer. They are still the best when it comes to being flexible but now they are better at each individually too.
This.0 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Dunmer are the best stam dps race now. They are a better magicka dps race than they were before. An Orc that wants to be a mag DPS is no competition for a Dunmer, an Altmer that wants to be stam DPS is no competition for a Dunmer. They are still the best when it comes to being flexible but now they are better at each individually too.
How? How are you backing up your argument? Do you not understand my argument? Dunmer were the hybrid races for damage. That's gone, negated, the lore nullified. That's one racial passive that now means nothing because now everyone(orc and altmers) has it. Base pools are not nearly as important as folks are trying to sell in the current proc meta. Dumner has no niche beyond 3% less fire damage.0 -
ApostateHobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭What how did dunmer get nerfed? Altmer and orcs just got a bit of weapon and spell damage making more builds viable, like for example my altmer stamblade. Just because other races got a buff doesn't mean dunmer got a nerf. They're still great for both stam and mag builds, and probably the best for hybrids (I don't really play hybrid builds so this is possibly incorrect my bad if it is).3 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Dunmer are the best stam dps race now. They are a better magicka dps race than they were before. An Orc that wants to be a mag DPS is no competition for a Dunmer, an Altmer that wants to be stam DPS is no competition for a Dunmer. They are still the best when it comes to being flexible but now they are better at each individually too.
How? How are you backing up your argument? Do you not understand my argument? Dunmer were the hybrid races for damage. That's gone, negated, the lore nullified. That's one racial passive that now means nothing because now everyone(orc and altmers) has it. Base pools are not nearly as important as folks are trying to sell in the current proc meta. Dumner has no niche beyond 3% less fire damage.
But I remember that when the Dunmer were going to have less spell damage than the Altmer people complained that they were supposed to be on par with the Altmer according to lore. So the devs gave the Dunmer damage equal to the High Elf. As you say, stat pools are meaningless so this erased the Altmer superiority with magic. The Dunmer were right there with them. Now the shoe is on the other foot.2 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do not downplay the importance of having 1900 stamina. It matters. That's still extra damage and sustain in one.5 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭
I think Altmer still only gets resources back on lowest resource pool. They just get it with using any skill, not just a class skill.orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Orcs gained a passive 2k heal per 4 seconds. They did not lose in this patch. And the altmer spell charge was changed to any skill. That's a huge buff. They not only have off damage better better systainment in combat.
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ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dunmer used to get a boost to fire damage which made them top tier for magika dps as long as you used fire damage0 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭
Dunmer received an increase to max stam and max mag, putting them only 90 mag behind altmer and 910 stam more than orc. They have the same weapon/spell damage as both. They will now do more damage than orc in stam classes and basically the same as altmer on mag classes. Seems like Dumner is in a pretty good place.orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Something else getting buffed is not a nerf.
dark elves are objectively better with this update.
they are getting buffed.
[snip] It doesn't work that way. The cross damage buff was unique to dunmer. Now it is not, they have lost something that made them special over other races, and gained nothing for it. That's an indirect nerf and a sad one for dunmer.
[Edited to remove Real World Politics]
[snip]
Dark Elf still has the best overall distribution of stamina/magicka and weapon damage/spell damage of all the races (as well as Flame damage resistance which is one of the most common damage types); not to mention Orc lost 1000 max stamina and High Elf isn't becoming meta stamina DPS anytime soon with these changes either, so I'm uncertain what the point of the entire post itself is anymore.
[Edited to remove Real World Politics]
The baseline has moved and the race did not. Orcs lose stamina but gain a heal equivalent to a 5 piece set and altmer have even easier time in keeping their off resource up. If two races are buffed and you remain unchanged them you were nerfed.
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orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
I think Altmer still only gets resources back on lowest resource pool. They just get it with using any skill, not just a class skill.orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Orcs gained a passive 2k heal per 4 seconds. They did not lose in this patch. And the altmer spell charge was changed to any skill. That's a huge buff. They not only have off damage better better systainment in combat.
That's a huge change to an extremely useful passive. Off stat regen is huge in pvp. Making them even better slippery mag sorcs and magblades.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Dunmer are the best stam dps race now. They are a better magicka dps race than they were before. An Orc that wants to be a mag DPS is no competition for a Dunmer, an Altmer that wants to be stam DPS is no competition for a Dunmer. They are still the best when it comes to being flexible but now they are better at each individually too.
How? How are you backing up your argument? Do you not understand my argument? Dunmer were the hybrid races for damage. That's gone, negated, the lore nullified. That's one racial passive that now means nothing because now everyone(orc and altmers) has it. Base pools are not nearly as important as folks are trying to sell in the current proc meta. Dumner has no niche beyond 3% less fire damage.
Damage is calculated from your weapon damage and spell damage but also from your maximum stamina and magicka respectively. Orcs have no 2000 max magicka. Altmer have no 2000 max stamina. They deal a lot less damage than Dunmer if they are on the "wrong" attribute. 2000 is around 150 effective spell damage. You might think that is meaningless in the proc meta but if that's your argument then so is all your spell damage. In the proc meta health is the only thing that matters and Dunmer didn't have any before PTS hit either. Also, the proc meta won't stick around as long as these racial passives most likely will.
Yes, I get that Dunmer were the hybrids before and that this was their thing, but they weren't alone with that. Khajiit are hybrid, Imperials are hybrid and Argonians are also hybrid. Dunmer wasn't even the only damage dealing hybrid, because Khajiit deals decent damage too. So what is the problem here?This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.4 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭ApostateHobo wrote: »What how did dunmer get nerfed? Altmer and orcs just got a bit of weapon and spell damage making more builds viable, like for example my altmer stamblade. Just because other races got a buff doesn't mean dunmer got a nerf. They're still great for both stam and mag builds, and probably the best for hybrids (I don't really play hybrid builds so this is possibly incorrect my bad if it is).
You post proves my point. Homogenezitaion of racial passive is a nerf to the original race that had that passive. Why pick dunmer stamblade when altmer stamblade is better. There is no longer a dunmer niche or flavor and thats a huge nerf. I dont mind or care about how powerful the passive are only that they were unique to each race and a third of that was loss for the dunmer. They lost a third of their in game identity and folks can't seem to understand that.1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »ApostateHobo wrote: »What how did dunmer get nerfed? Altmer and orcs just got a bit of weapon and spell damage making more builds viable, like for example my altmer stamblade. Just because other races got a buff doesn't mean dunmer got a nerf. They're still great for both stam and mag builds, and probably the best for hybrids (I don't really play hybrid builds so this is possibly incorrect my bad if it is).
You post proves my point. Homogenezitaion of racial passive is a nerf to the original race that had that passive. Why pick dunmer stamblade when altmer stamblade is better. There is no longer a dunmer niche or flavor and thats a huge nerf. I dont mind or care about how powerful the passive are only that they were unique to each race and a third of that was loss for the dunmer. They lost a third of their in game identity and folks can't seem to understand that.
The new Dunmer niche is being the best stam race. I get that from a lore perspective Altmer and Orcs don't really deserve that hybrid bonus but ZOS is trying to make the choice of race more forgiving without taking power out of the system.
The Alternative would have been to cut 2/3 of the spell and weapon damage from these races and then we'd be just one step away from just doing away with these passives all together, which I feel would be a shame.
I get that it's frustrating but as long as they don't actually take away from Dunmer, you should look at what you have and not look if the grass is greener somewhere else.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.4 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Losing game identity isn't a nerf though, it makes absolutely NO difference to your toon if someone else chooses to roll a WD high elf or a mag orc. If it directly, negatively impacted your ability to play your toon then it is a nerf.
But it didn't so it isn't.8 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »ApostateHobo wrote: »What how did dunmer get nerfed? Altmer and orcs just got a bit of weapon and spell damage making more builds viable, like for example my altmer stamblade. Just because other races got a buff doesn't mean dunmer got a nerf. They're still great for both stam and mag builds, and probably the best for hybrids (I don't really play hybrid builds so this is possibly incorrect my bad if it is).
You post proves my point. Homogenezitaion of racial passive is a nerf to the original race that had that passive. Why pick dunmer stamblade when altmer stamblade is better. There is no longer a dunmer niche or flavor and thats a huge nerf. I dont mind or care about how powerful the passive are only that they were unique to each race and a third of that was loss for the dunmer. They lost a third of their in game identity and folks can't seem to understand that.
I've asked myself countless times why I even bothered to play a high elf when I could have played a Dunmer, got the same spell damage AND 2k magicka and stamina (for mobility in pvp). There was really no reason to pick a High Elf over a Dark Elf. Even now, it's still arguable that Dunmer are better for pvp due to them having a larger stamina pool which results in more damage and more mobility.5 -
ApostateHobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »ApostateHobo wrote: »What how did dunmer get nerfed? Altmer and orcs just got a bit of weapon and spell damage making more builds viable, like for example my altmer stamblade. Just because other races got a buff doesn't mean dunmer got a nerf. They're still great for both stam and mag builds, and probably the best for hybrids (I don't really play hybrid builds so this is possibly incorrect my bad if it is).
You post proves my point. Homogenezitaion of racial passive is a nerf to the original race that had that passive. Why pick dunmer stamblade when altmer stamblade is better. There is no longer a dunmer niche or flavor and thats a huge nerf. I dont mind or care about how powerful the passive are only that they were unique to each race and a third of that was loss for the dunmer. They lost a third of their in game identity and folks can't seem to understand that.
Lol what no altmer stamblade is still worse than dunmer. Are you seriously forgetting the stamina dunmer get? Altmer don't have that. I just have my altmer stamblade from when I first started playing the game and had zero clue how any of the damage scaling worked. Now he'll just be a bit less sucky. Like somebody else said it's just making race choice a bit more forgiving so nobody is majorly gimping themselves by picking an off meta race for whatever build they're going for.0 -
orion_1981usub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Each old hybrid races was unique. Khajit were crit hybrids, argonian resource hybrids and dunmer damage hybrids. I dont really think imperials are hybrids, just a poor tank race who passive heal is now smacked down by the orcs new heal.1
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imperials are now a universal sustain race. I really liked that change.9 -
CrimsonGTX✭✭✭The stam on High Elf and Mag on Orc passives is kind of funny, it makes no sense.... but it's whatever at this point
. Dunmer seems fine to me from what i seen, and there's no way Dumner will be lesser to a ORC! Sorc & Warden Main - PC NA(CP 1k+) & Xbox NA (CP 1k+)0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Each old hybrid races was unique. Khajit were crit hybrids, argonian resource hybrids and dunmer damage hybrids. I dont really think imperials are hybrids, just a poor tank race who passive heal is now smacked down by the orcs new heal.
I think that Orc passive is very OP and will probably be nerfed. If they get 2k health just by doing damage, they will absolutely wreck everyone. Especially anyone in a light armor build.0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »Each old hybrid races was unique. Khajit were crit hybrids, argonian resource hybrids and dunmer damage hybrids. I dont really think imperials are hybrids, just a poor tank race who passive heal is now smacked down by the orcs new heal.
I think that Orc passive is very OP and will probably be nerfed. If they get 2k health just by doing damage, they will absolutely wreck everyone. Especially anyone in a light armor build.
Huh?
It's a 2125 heal that becomes 2125 * 0.45 = 956 after Battle Spirit every 4 seconds. That's 239 HPS.
In non-CP that's like 40% of the average Radiating Regen tick every 4 seconds which is hardly good.1 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Imperials are now a universal sustain race. I really liked that change.
Agreed, especially considering their jack-of-all-trades nature in previous titles.0 -
ThePainGuy✭✭✭Dark elves are in a good place. They offer offensive playstyles in both mag and stam department. Certainly adding 258 weapon damage to high elves and 258 magic damage to orcs have changed things up a bit to offer more options (especially in off meta department). However, at this point : Zos might as well make the stam and mag dark elves gain 2000 (up from 1910). 1910 is such a random number and the 90 difference between dark elves and high elves is pretty much negligible.
But overall: i won't criticize Zos for offering more options to the playerbase (there are many players who like to have orc magicka users and high elf stam playstyle).Edited by ThePainGuy on January 30, 2021 9:22PM1 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ThePainGuy wrote: »Dark elves are in a good place. They offer offensive playstyles in both mag and stam department. Certainly adding 258 weapon damage to high elves and 258 magic damage to orcs have changed things up a bit to offer more options (especially in off meta department). However, at this point : Zos might as well make the stam and mag dark elves gain 2000 (up from 1910). 1910 is such a random number and the 90 difference between dark elves and high elves is pretty much negligible.
But overall: i won't criticize Zos for offering more options to the playerbase (there are many players who like to have orc magicka users and high elf stam playstyle).
They're better in pvp now. It's not actually off-meta. I would love for my Altmer to get almost 2k stam for sprinting, dodging and breaking free.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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True, this one want to talk about indirect nerfs make Khajiit suffer with the last racial changes now that crit chance is getting lower and lower. Yes it might be an buff back then with berserking warrior who guess what will happen toDunmer are still better mag characters than orcs.
Dunmer are still better stam characters than altmer.
Dunmer are buffed compared to live.
You're massively overreacting.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2
