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No changes to procs?
relentless_turnip
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I don't mean to criticize and I believe there is some really good changes in here.
But why try to make meaningful choices to armor types, if someone can still stack 35-55k health and kill people with light attacks? Not to mention you can kill people from mist form... crit has been further nerfed ensuring everyone will keep using malacath and not trying to benefit from some of the other interesting mythics.
Zos are doing the right things by creating more viable builds. Unfortunately that all goes out the window when the most optimal thing is to stack health, light attack and mist form.
Edited by relentless_turnip on January 27, 2021 8:40PM But why try to make meaningful choices to armor types, if someone can still stack 35-55k health and kill people with light attacks? Not to mention you can kill people from mist form... crit has been further nerfed ensuring everyone will keep using malacath and not trying to benefit from some of the other interesting mythics.
Zos are doing the right things by creating more viable builds. Unfortunately that all goes out the window when the most optimal thing is to stack health, light attack and mist form.
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Azorean✭✭✭They will test no proc sets on Cyro this week.
That way helps PvP and doesn't affect the PvE2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I understand them wanting it to be easier... But why make stat builds so terrible in comparison? Everyone will be even more tanky next patch. You will see players with 60k+ health killing others with ease...2 -
Melivar✭✭✭They likely won't do much with procs until after the Feb PVP testing where anything that procs is disabled thus no news on any proc changes yet.0 -
dcmgti✭✭✭I dont mind procs themselves. They shouldn't scale with Malacath though. Was surprised to see Malacath not getting changed to only affect class abilities.4
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relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They will test no proc sets on Cyro this week.
That way helps PvP and doesn't affect the PvE
That's just a test, it isn't a change that fixes a meta that bypasses the tradition of build craft. People are currently unkillable and killing people, this traditionally was not possible.
During the test they will remove everything with a proc condition meaning most will wear sets like shacklebreaker and new moon, in fact I think it only leaves about 25 sets. This kills build craft for the time of the test, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.0 -
nqvarihs✭✭✭not nerfing malacath or procs, buffing heavy, nerfing light and medium, increasing base health and resources, nerf to weapon passives
lmao one hell of a garbage patch. the armor changes seem like they were thrown together 3 days before the reveal stream and lets not talk about class balance or bug fixes.
is there even anyone who plays the game over at zos?
edit: obligatory "95% of this garbage will go live as is while all our feedback is ignored"Edited by nqvarihs on January 27, 2021 9:04PM5 -
Darktrox✭✭✭Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.3 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭Not sure about all of this yet, but keep in mind we are getting 1k free weapon/spell damage and 4k free stam/mag plus 15% free damage mitigation, which will make skills relatively speaking stronger compared to procs (since they wont scale with the extra stats). So they were nerfed indirectly, but its still too early to tell how all of these changes combined will play out.PC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Make malacath only boost the dmg if skills/things that initially can crit.
PC EU
PvP only2 -
IxskullzxI✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.#HowDoYouLikeYourDK?0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.
Unfortunately, we gain more tankiness than offense.
1000 spell damage is 1200 with major sorcery/brutality. In my testing, 94 spell damage was needed to give me a 1% increase in damage on all my abilities. So 1200 spell damage should roughly be 12-13% damage. 15% damage mitigation wins here.
4k magicka and stamina is barely 4% damage, as opposed to around 8k health for most players. There is not a single way you will see people dying faster now. Only when battle spirit loses its 5k hp, would it be somewhat realistic.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not sure about all of this yet, but keep in mind we are getting 1k free weapon/spell damage and 4k free stam/mag plus 15% free damage mitigation, which will make skills relatively speaking stronger compared to procs (since they wont scale with the extra stats). So they were nerfed indirectly, but its still too early to tell how all of these changes combined will play out.
You make a solid point there, as it raises everything and leaves procs behind. I want to get on the PTS at some point to test stuff, connecting from EU makes duelling ridiculous. Thanks for your input👍 I overlooked this.0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.
Unfortunately, we gain more tankiness than offense.
1000 spell damage is 1200 with major sorcery/brutality. In my testing, 94 spell damage was needed to give me a 1% increase in damage on all my abilities. So 1200 spell damage should roughly be 12-13% damage. 15% damage mitigation wins here.
4k magicka and stamina is barely 4% damage, as opposed to around 8k health for most players. There is not a single way you will see people dying faster now. Only when battle spirit loses its 5k hp, would it be somewhat realistic.
I suppose with high health already you could build more damage. For instance I use prismatic glyphs on all pieces on most of my characters. If I am wearing full stam or magicka my health will still be greater than before, but my damage will also be high. I really have no idea how this will pan out tbh... But I am more hopeful now than my initial read through.0 -
IxskullzxI✭✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.
Unfortunately, we gain more tankiness than offense.
1000 spell damage is 1200 with major sorcery/brutality. In my testing, 94 spell damage was needed to give me a 1% increase in damage on all my abilities. So 1200 spell damage should roughly be 12-13% damage. 15% damage mitigation wins here.
4k magicka and stamina is barely 4% damage, as opposed to around 8k health for most players. There is not a single way you will see people dying faster now. Only when battle spirit loses its 5k hp, would it be somewhat realistic.
But that 15% shouldn't be additive with battle spirit and resists, so it should be a lot less. My math could be way off here, I'm just returning to the game so I'm rusty on all my numbers, but a player with capped resists and battle spirit should only see around a 4-5% increse in mitigation?Edited by IxskullzxI on January 27, 2021 9:55PM#HowDoYouLikeYourDK?0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »IxskullzxI wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.
Unfortunately, we gain more tankiness than offense.
1000 spell damage is 1200 with major sorcery/brutality. In my testing, 94 spell damage was needed to give me a 1% increase in damage on all my abilities. So 1200 spell damage should roughly be 12-13% damage. 15% damage mitigation wins here.
4k magicka and stamina is barely 4% damage, as opposed to around 8k health for most players. There is not a single way you will see people dying faster now. Only when battle spirit loses its 5k hp, would it be somewhat realistic.
But that 15% shouldn't be additive with battle spirit and resists, so it should be a lot less.
It works like all other damage mitigation works. Just like CP work right now, it's a straight damage reduction.
Also, do not forget that 1,2k damage and 4k ressources will buff everyone's healing by a lot, improving survival even more.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
IxskullzxI✭✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »IxskullzxI wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.
Unfortunately, we gain more tankiness than offense.
1000 spell damage is 1200 with major sorcery/brutality. In my testing, 94 spell damage was needed to give me a 1% increase in damage on all my abilities. So 1200 spell damage should roughly be 12-13% damage. 15% damage mitigation wins here.
4k magicka and stamina is barely 4% damage, as opposed to around 8k health for most players. There is not a single way you will see people dying faster now. Only when battle spirit loses its 5k hp, would it be somewhat realistic.
But that 15% shouldn't be additive with battle spirit and resists, so it should be a lot less.
It works like all other damage mitigation works. Just like CP work right now, it's a straight damage reduction.
Also, do not forget that 1,2k damage and 4k ressources will buff everyone's healing by a lot, improving survival even more.
Cp and %damage reduction isnt multiplicative?#HowDoYouLikeYourDK?0 -
Ylikollikas✭✭✭I was really worried that procs would be nerfed and I would have to learn to play.4 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »IxskullzxI wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.
Unfortunately, we gain more tankiness than offense.
1000 spell damage is 1200 with major sorcery/brutality. In my testing, 94 spell damage was needed to give me a 1% increase in damage on all my abilities. So 1200 spell damage should roughly be 12-13% damage. 15% damage mitigation wins here.
4k magicka and stamina is barely 4% damage, as opposed to around 8k health for most players. There is not a single way you will see people dying faster now. Only when battle spirit loses its 5k hp, would it be somewhat realistic.
But that 15% shouldn't be additive with battle spirit and resists, so it should be a lot less.
It works like all other damage mitigation works. Just like CP work right now, it's a straight damage reduction.
Also, do not forget that 1,2k damage and 4k ressources will buff everyone's healing by a lot, improving survival even more.
I'm not sure these numbers are correct.
First- We are losing 20% of our current stat pool (hence the flat increase), so we will have to see what net gain, if any there will be.
Second- That +15% mitigation is in leu of them removing mitigation tress in the CP (according to them) which if there is no mitigation trees will be a 19% LOSS for my builds.
So I think we need to actually see the CP rework before we assume too much.
Now you are right about one thing, though. This will impact No-CP environments. But lets be honest here, the game is designed around CP and they show little concern for that niche environment.Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »IxskullzxI wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.
Unfortunately, we gain more tankiness than offense.
1000 spell damage is 1200 with major sorcery/brutality. In my testing, 94 spell damage was needed to give me a 1% increase in damage on all my abilities. So 1200 spell damage should roughly be 12-13% damage. 15% damage mitigation wins here.
4k magicka and stamina is barely 4% damage, as opposed to around 8k health for most players. There is not a single way you will see people dying faster now. Only when battle spirit loses its 5k hp, would it be somewhat realistic.
But that 15% shouldn't be additive with battle spirit and resists, so it should be a lot less.
It works like all other damage mitigation works. Just like CP work right now, it's a straight damage reduction.
Also, do not forget that 1,2k damage and 4k ressources will buff everyone's healing by a lot, improving survival even more.
He may be right, damage mitigation stacks multiplicatively. Meaning the more sources you have the less you gain.0 -
TheCaptainJosh✭✭✭Ylikollikas wrote: »I was really worried that procs would be nerfed and I would have to learn to play.
This, but unironicallyAugustusGray
PC NA0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »IxskullzxI wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.
Unfortunately, we gain more tankiness than offense.
1000 spell damage is 1200 with major sorcery/brutality. In my testing, 94 spell damage was needed to give me a 1% increase in damage on all my abilities. So 1200 spell damage should roughly be 12-13% damage. 15% damage mitigation wins here.
4k magicka and stamina is barely 4% damage, as opposed to around 8k health for most players. There is not a single way you will see people dying faster now. Only when battle spirit loses its 5k hp, would it be somewhat realistic.
But that 15% shouldn't be additive with battle spirit and resists, so it should be a lot less.
It works like all other damage mitigation works. Just like CP work right now, it's a straight damage reduction.
Also, do not forget that 1,2k damage and 4k ressources will buff everyone's healing by a lot, improving survival even more.
I'm not sure these numbers are correct.
First- We are losing 20% of our current stat pool (hence the flat increase), so we will have to see what net gain, if any there will be.
Second- That +15% mitigation is in leu of them removing mitigation tress in the CP (according to them) which if there is no mitigation trees will be a 19% LOSS for my builds.
So I think we need to actually see the CP rework before we assume too much.
Now you are right about one thing, though. This will impact No-CP environments. But lets be honest here, the game is designed around CP and they show little concern for that niche environment.
I would say there are more PvP options in no cp. I.e battlegrounds, I think this is why they have added the gain before cp as that is where procs are the most unbalanced.0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheCaptainJosh wrote: »Ylikollikas wrote: »I was really worried that procs would be nerfed and I would have to learn to play.
This, but unironically
I have nothing but admiration for this level of self awareness 😂2 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Stat-based builds are completely viable for Stamina already (especially if you don't consider the Vateshran 2h a "proc set"). Those builds aren't better than proc setups, but they're at least not garbage.IxskullzxI wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »Probably procs will go from cyrodiil, finally shifting the meta of procs, a new cp system, I'm really looking forward all of this.
I think they have some good ideas and I see the direction, but they failed to adjust the biggest contribution to the current tank meta. In fact they have buffed the health stacking with the increase to base health. This will be particularly noticeable in no cp.
I'm wondering if a more traditional stat based build might work now in no cp. Yeah health and mitigation is up, but we're getting a lot of damage with the max mag/stam and wep/spell damage. All while proc damage is staying the same. The health stacking proc users will still be doing the same damage they do now for the most part.
It's mostly Magicka builds that are non-competitive without proc sets, and the current version of the armor changes just seem to solidify that even more. Light armor was already too squishy vs most Stam setups in no-CP, at least on most everything that isn't a Sorc, but now you'll take 5-7% more damage from everything that they do (except for Red Mountain, Way of Fire, and maybe another proc set or two). I just don't see this version of light armor being functional in PvP, at least outside of 1-2 pieces on the belt and gloves.0 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭It sounds like the stam, mag, and health are direct replacements for what the first 160 cp gave so that I assume is a 1 for 1 trade yielding no difference. The 1000 weapon/spell damage and 15% mitigation appear to be increases to non existent stats currently in the game.0 -
Canned_Apples✭✭✭✭✭
✭We need an anti-proc damage star for no cp and cp.
getting hit with 10 light attack free damage procs with no possible counter play is a joke.
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universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Zos in thier mind "it's big brain time"
Dungeons nerf: check
Class skill line nerf: check
General skill line nerf: check
Racial passive nerf: check
Stata Armor sets nerf: check
Proc armor sets: perfectly balanced
Good thing I no longer hope and anticipate new things from this game or I would have been furious right now.
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