Vildebill wrote: »

defcon.dealer1b14_ESO wrote: »

If going for a necro tank, opinions on which would be the best race to use? Thx

Tank is probably the role that's least race dependant, but the ones that's most popular would be Nord, Breton, Argonian and Imperial, probably in that order-ish.

Even though Nord looks great on paper I'd personally take Breton over Nord due to the magicka sustain that's great for a tank.

I was sure no one would mention Breton. I'm leveling a Breton Templar tank right now. xD

I'm having a little trouble healing though.

i don't see what makes DK the best tank. Every class has access to good heals and absorb shields.
don't give me that Stone Giant trash, it's 195 damage per player which even in the best groups it will not raise total group dps by more than 5k (where those groups have more than 400k total group dps). And it's costly and hard to keep up.
defensive passives? like what, healing received? templar also has mending and block amount increase, for example. And if you want the minor brutality and increase fire damage taken, a dps magdk in your group will be actually better.

people see it too much from the min-max point of view, which is just an insignificant increase anyway.
The only point i could agree on at magdk is the Magma Shell ult giving you god mode for 8 sec. But a class like Necro also has colossus for this matter or templar has Remembrance.

El_Borracho wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

i don't see what makes DK the best tank. Every class has access to good heals and absorb shields.
don't give me that Stone Giant trash, it's 195 damage per player which even in the best groups it will not raise total group dps by more than 5k (where those groups have more than 400k total group dps). And it's costly and hard to keep up.
defensive passives? like what, healing received? templar also has mending and block amount increase, for example. And if you want the minor brutality and increase fire damage taken, a dps magdk in your group will be actually better.

people see it too much from the min-max point of view, which is just an insignificant increase anyway.
The only point i could agree on at magdk is the Magma Shell ult giving you god mode for 8 sec. But a class like Necro also has colossus for this matter or templar has Remembrance.

I don't know what groups you are running with, but Igneous Weapons is one of the best skills for a DK in group to raise damage. It also lasts for 45 seconds, minimum.

Choking Talons is a good cc for trash. Ferocious Leap is a good selfish ulti and deals moderate damage. And the obvious chains and Standard of Might. This is before you get into the passives that make the DK an ideal tank. Slap on the Crimson set, and you're almost invincible.

i thought we talk about optimized trial groups.

Igneous weapons when everyone have their potions with the buffs, or simply from abilities casted or slotted.

Choking Talons is good but why wouldn't also be good then Ghostly Embrace or Restraining Prison or if you mean "around myself root" then Gripping Shards ? also you don't chose a class for tanking based on trash packs effectiveness.

Ferocious Leap? that's just for pvp. The absorb shield melts instantly in vet trials, and damage is insignificant. And you don't come as tank to do any damage, usually tanks do 2-3k dps and that's not intentional either.

What's so good about Standard of Might? you don't care for Defile in pve. And if you mean the "15% damage taken reduced" part, the Magma Shell is the choice you want for defense, not the hybrid one.

Chains and Silver Leash are spells for the same goal, just one is stamina. If you block with stamina and use Chains for pull it's magicka, if you block with ice staff then use Leash for pull with stamina. And again, you don't choose a tank class for trash packs.

Crimson set? in optimized groups, both healer and tank, are only dd supports. You don't wear defense sets on tanks. You wear sets like worm, alkosh, yolna, and such. You don't even need defense sets as a tank in trials, you survive with your inner build (like enchants, CP, spells slotted) and capabilities, not sets.

DK passives? all classes have tank passives. For example Iron Skin is the same as templar's Sacred Ground. Healing received is also equal with other classes passives, and the extra spell resistance is overkill anyway.

and if we don't talk about optimized groups, then there is no point in calling a class the best or the most useful, because anything can work everywhere.
.

@Sergykid for strictly trials with organized groups, I agree with you. I was including everything else, like dungeons and pug trial runs

Dreddnawt wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Templars said hi. What tanking skill line.
.....
The answer. Templars don't have the toolkit to tank.

Aedric Spear skill line has great tanking passives.

Templars are commonly viewed as the hardest tank class to master but those of us who do run temp tanks know theyre super powerful and probably more versatile then any other.

I think you'll have a hard time getting people to agree with that. I think templar is regarded as the class who's worst for tanking. Theres only a few passives and hardly any skills that's made for tanking, and no HP based heal.

For 4-man content, Wardens have the best buff/debuff coverage for the group allowing you to 3 DPS much more smoothly, and have the best pull in the form of Frozen Device that allows you to pre-place and pull mobs as they spawn from portals in vDSA and vBRP.

For Trials, it's a matter of which Trial and whether you're Main-Tank or Off-Tank and team composition;
MT/OT:
Dragonknights are easy to pilot and are great for either; best placed where they can maintain Stonefist better for extra group damage. Not actually as beginner friendly as the latter two classes below though as you will have to hold horn for what’s best for the group and have your resource management sorted out without relying on the refill.

MT/OT:
Wardens are great for either but shine mostly in vCR as portal tank with shimmering shield that makes it easy mode but are otherwise also great at applying brittle. However, the minor lifesteal change means they can no longer maintain Minor Toughness so you often still need a Warden healer even with a Warden tank.

OT:
Necromancers are great as OTs who can ultigen rapidly and fill a Colossus slot so they are in high demand; you can have 1 necro tank and 2 magcros using Colossus rather than 4 magcros using Colossus with a necrotank while still having good coverage of Major Vuln. However, the nerf to Major Protection means they've lost a great bit of mitigation from Deaden Pain making them worse MTs, especially for mobile fights where corpses aren’t readily available in new locations to reapply Mortal Coil (e.g. portal tank vCR). Their lack of a magicka based pull is helped somewhat by beckoning armor which can passively pull in ranged mobs as OT.

MT:
Sorcerers retain the highest mitigation atm through Bound Aegis, they are easy to play as MT if you know how to catch heavies with it. But beware, casting Dark Deal during heavy attacks are a recurring meme among beginner sorctanks but the new Crystal Weapon is the new better form of triggering minor prophecy if there is no other sorc in group once you have learnt how to manage your resources without dark dealing. For mobile fights where the warden healer can’t maintain enchanted growth well, Empowered Ward is also a good option to help Magicka groups sustain. Once you are comfortable with content and become more optimized however, DK are still ultimately better with Stonefist. They are not so great as OT in places where you need to spam Silver Leash and having to double bar Clannfear can leave them starved of bar space.

Not so great:
Nightblades had their mitigation gutted so have lost a lot of strength.
Templar never had a good kit for tanking.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sad no one is mentioning Templar.

Or nightblade, which was in the discussion not that long ago.

Nightblade is actually a really good tank, I have one... I'd probably put them behind DK to be honest.

Templar tanks need love badly!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=iQ5ig9PQ0Jw

Athan1 wrote: »

Templars are interesting because they can also heal aside tanking.

All classes can heal, some better than others. But it you want to off heal effectively with a tank I'd say that Warden has a much better toolkit. For example, polar wind heals both you and and ally, and scale of health which makes it effective for tanks. Templar has no health based heals, making their skills weak on a tank.

I chose to become a Templar tank a long time ago, and I have loved every moment of it. I always have fun and have evolved my playstyle over time adapting my race (Imperial, Wood Elf, and currently Argonian), sustain, and sets e.g. Galenwe, Imperium, Alkosh etc to fit the content I am playing. I have completed a good deal of content, all vet dungeon dlc trifectas and some vet trials too.

Templar has to by nature and limitations play different than what I think is considered the meta for tanks, but there is nothing you can't accomplish if you put your mind to it to come up with a solution.✌️

I think that very flexibility is our strength.

I tried to tank Vet Stone Garden for the first time on my Breton Templar tank. I will say this. We didn't make it a minute into the dungeon before someone quit and accused me of not knowing what I was doing (in spite of the fact that people ran ahead of me and got killed). I know my job is to get aggro and control as much as possible but perhaps people expect me to be able to tank the same way a DK does or a Necro does. So I guess Templars also have to deal with negative perceptions that make tanking harder.

Sergykid wrote: »

i don't see what makes DK the best tank. Every class has access to good heals and absorb shields.
don't give me that Stone Giant trash, it's 195 damage per player which even in the best groups it will not raise total group dps by more than 5k (where those groups have more than 400k total group dps). And it's costly and hard to keep up.
defensive passives? like what, healing received? templar also has mending and block amount increase, for example. And if you want the minor brutality and increase fire damage taken, a dps magdk in your group will be actually better.

people see it too much from the min-max point of view, which is just an insignificant increase anyway.
The only point i could agree on at magdk is the Magma Shell ult giving you god mode for 8 sec. But a class like Necro also has colossus for this matter or templar has Remembrance.

Stonegiant is a 195 damage bonus per damagetick per player. Depending on the class its a 2-3k dps increase per player. The fact that mag compositions don't have a stamdk applying it and because a stamdk is a dps loss in stam groups makes a dk tank the most desired tank in PVE content.

Matchimus wrote: »

I have an Argonian Templar Tank & I’m glad I came across this thread. Everything for me was running fine until recently when doing about my 50th pug vet dungeon. A player seemed to scoff at my character then added I would be shunned within their guild. So I did some research & yep, according to the ‘experts’, Templar is the worst class for tanking & Argonian mid- range for the races. I was now confused. I have become attached to this character but was contemplating changing his race and/or role. It is amazing how the comments of one person can have you reassessing everything!

This thread has shown there is some love for the Templar Tank; thank you to all that did. Now I will leave him as he was born. He will continue on his journey (along with the occasional ‘classism’ he will experience). Despite his ‘limitations’, he has turned into a solid tank and one day will become a great one. He may not get selected for the high end-game content but so what. He has no itch to break records.

Funny would be the day if the Tamriel Gods gave their love to the Templar Tank.

I mean, Argonians have historically suffered from tons of racism and slavery, no? (mostly due to the sinister dark elves). Just gotta stay resilient like your ancestors and make it through all this hardship