year long story ruins chapters.

VaranisArano · January 2021

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

How can you say that Greymoor don't have a story..

Its pacing was badly messed up due to the need to start advertising The Dark Heart of Skyrim in Q1 but also sell the story to brand new players. If you did the Harrowstorm dungeons or the prologue quest, you already knew that the Icereach Coven was in league with the vampires and Grey Host to do nasty stuff in Western Skyrim involving Harrowstorms. Yet figuring that out was still the big focus of the first part of the Chapter questline because the writers had to establish that for brand new players, no matter that it was repetitious for players who'd already done the story's earlier content.

If the writers hadn't played the "apparently stupid ruler willfully ignores the bad guys so you have to get evidence to prove what you already know" plot card, they might have had more time to flesh out the story of Western Skyrim instead of spending a good chunk of it (re)establishing info they already covered in Q1 and the Greymoor Prologue.

That's not to say that Markarth didn't have its issues. Markarth also features an apparently dumb ruler siding with the bad guys even though Bad Guy #1 lays out his evil plot...which my character, inexplicably, has no dialogue options to share with anyone else even though the info should have changed our plan of attack. I'm sorry, but when I as a player figure out the main goal of the villain from single dialogue tree, I should be able to tell my allies about what he said.

Spoiler-heavy Griping about Markarth's plot ahead:
In the first main story quest, the player learns that Ard Caddach has brought the clans to Markarth on the say of the Grey Host for peace. We also see Lady Belain and Rada al-Saran talking. Belain says they want Markarth filled up with Reachmen like a larder, and if you tell him about Verandis, Rada will tell you that he's planning on sacrificing a bunch of mortals in the Reach. Hmm...I wonder what the plan is?

Haha, no, its blinding obvious. The Grey Host wants the Reachmen in Markaeth so they can sacrifice them.

Do we have the option to tell Ard Caddach this?
No.
Can we tell our witch ally, Arana, so she knows not to walk into the trap?
No.
How about Verandis Ravenwatch who's our vampire ally trying to help us stop whatever mysterious plan Rada has?
Haha. No.

The Vestige, inexplicably, plays those cards close to their chest despite knowing that Belair and Rada want the Reachmen in Markarth so they can sacrifice them.

It gets worse. After the Ghostface Clan dies and the Dark Heart is stirring, our witch ally Arana points out that a greater sacrifice will be needed if Belair wants to waken the Dark Heart fully.

This is your moment, Vestige! Say something!

Haha, nope. The Vestige, despite having the evil plan of Belain and Rada literally spelled out for them, has no clue that Markarth is being set up as the sacrifice needed to power the Dark Heart.

We don't "figure it out" until Rada and Belain actually activate the thing and Verandis panics, since he's finally managed to figure out that Markarth is the sacrifice, without any input from us. Now its time to rush off and stop them.

Ugh, Vestige. You could've saved a lot of lives just by telling Ard Caddach that vampires were going to sacrifice everyone in Markarth at the beginning of the questline.

And writers? If you are going to spell out the villain's plan in the first questline, let us act on it! Let us say something! Don't just throw us on the plot railroad and forget that we're keeping crucial information to ourselves!

I sincerely hope that no developer ever does that. I would have to quit 95% of the games I play in the first hour or so, I'd have no reason to read to the end of a novel, or watch an entire movie, or series of movies. Because I, as a player, have the plot figured out relatively quickly, and being able to lay it out in the first x minutes/hours of a story means all the rest of the time and money spent on it was wasted.

I think the real problem here is that the "twists" are so blindingly obvious, the fact that nobody (including the player) seems to figure it out until the last moment feels unnatural and forced, and makes those characters (again, player included) come across as complete morons. If we're not meant to feel like we're keeping quiet for no reason at all when the world is about to end or are too dumb to figure out the plan explicitly laid out before us by the bad guys, then the stories need to be less predictable.

This is going to feel like a totally off the wall example, but trust me, it'll become obvious:

I played the EA for Baldur's Gate 3, and people were complaining about dice rolls for conversation and skill checks. The reason they cited were games like TES/FO series, where the player determined whether or not you got that lock, or Intimidate/Persuade check, instead of dice. Character skill (knowledge for this dialog) vs player skill/knowledge.

We, as players, can figure a lot of stuff out ahead of time, that our character may not know. This isn't to say that there are times where we run into dialog that completely ignores what we, as players have already done on a particular character, it does happen. We can do this because some stories are rather cliche, or at least somewhat common, or predictable, given our experience as gamers overall.

I get that, and I am not saying that I want dice rolls and skill checks for conversations in ESO, but that's missing the point that VaranisArano and I were trying to make: we ARE given the information in the game, that is our characters are given this information, which we are then forced to ignore/withhold until a certain point in the game. Sometimes this is literal - the enforced exposition designed for new players, and which is PERFECTLY FINE to have, but which should be skippable in the case of players who had already uncovered that information, and if the story is built in such a way that you are FORCED to uncover the same information over and over again (with the flimsiest excuse, or at times not even that) then it's not very well-written.

And yes, to some degree stories are going to be somewhat predictable and we, as players, may well guess ahead but our characters shouldn't practically be hit over the head with an obvious clue which they cannot share/talk about because they haven't reached the right point in the questline to do so. More simply: maybe avoid having the villains boast about their Super Secret Evil Plan for all to hear, then pretend nobody heard.

Yeah, there's in-character and out-of-character knowledge.

To a certain extent the player is going to be more trope-savvy than the character. For example, its out-of-character knowledge that I know that ZOS likes the trope of "the formerly good-intentioned parent of a dead child turns evil."

Thus I as the player figured out that one of the villains of Summerset probably had a dead child well before my Vestige found out.

In the case of Markarth, on the other hand, by the end of the first quest, my Vestige had all the in-character knowledge needed to deliver a serious and accurate warning to Ard Caddach...that she didn't. Later on in the questline, she had all the in- character knowledge to identify the only likely target for the villain's plans...and she didn't.

Even if we're talking about a new player on a new character, their Vestige should be able to talk about and act on the in-character information they are given.

For Vestige Varanis Arano, who spearheaded the invasion of Coldharbor, stopped the Planemeld, defeated Molag Bal, and saved all three alliances, its beyond disappointing that she inconveniently "forgets" to pass along crucial information to her allies in Markarth.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · January 2021

Fun fact: I did the Murkmire prologue story yesterday.

I’ve owned Murkmire for like 3 years now. 🤣

adriant1978 · January 2021

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Moreover, I can't understand that love of his expressed towards those vampires and werewolves - they were defeated once in a fair fight, wasn't it obvious that launching a similar war using the same plan is a lunacy? And for what goal? Why didn't he just decide to live his own eternal life and try to make it pleasant, why did he need that Host, Tamriel, Nirn?.. What for?

They were his friends and comrades. Evil people are allowed to have friends too, you know.

This is actually something I liked about this story: a villain who seemed more human, despite being a vampire, rather than just a generic cackling world conqueror.

That's point, Adriant!.. His actions had nothing common with a normal man's behaviour. You just cast off those fictious moments with magic, vampires, Molag Bal, and etc., imagine such a situation IRL when, say, some Axis high ranking guy who survived WW II, murders numerous people and risks greatly his life just because he feels a deep feeling of friendship and wants to free his fellow soldiers and war criminals. Sheer nonsense.

Actually I think that sounds like an interesting story and I'd watch it.

Just because someone is ruthless and amoral doesn't preclude them forming friendships, feeling loyalty, etc. Not all villains have to be in the one dimensional mold of Emperor Palpatine, and I found it refreshing that Rada al-Saran was driven by something other than just a muahahaha need to conquer the world.

Aigym_Hlervu · January 2021

adriant1978 wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Moreover, I can't understand that love of his expressed towards those vampires and werewolves - they were defeated once in a fair fight, wasn't it obvious that launching a similar war using the same plan is a lunacy? And for what goal? Why didn't he just decide to live his own eternal life and try to make it pleasant, why did he need that Host, Tamriel, Nirn?.. What for?

They were his friends and comrades. Evil people are allowed to have friends too, you know.

This is actually something I liked about this story: a villain who seemed more human, despite being a vampire, rather than just a generic cackling world conqueror.

That's point, Adriant!.. His actions had nothing common with a normal man's behaviour. You just cast off those fictious moments with magic, vampires, Molag Bal, and etc., imagine such a situation IRL when, say, some Axis high ranking guy who survived WW II, murders numerous people and risks greatly his life just because he feels a deep feeling of friendship and wants to free his fellow soldiers and war criminals. Sheer nonsense.

Actually I think that sounds like an interesting story and I'd watch it.

Just because someone is ruthless and amoral doesn't preclude them forming friendships, feeling loyalty, etc. Not all villains have to be in the one dimensional mold of Emperor Palpatine, and I found it refreshing that Rada al-Saran was driven by something other than just a muahahaha need to conquer the world.

And before Disney came Palpatine was not that "muahahaha" guy you speak of at all. I was not speaking of impossibility for "villains" to have friends or something, I was talking about a completely other thing. if you find that story I gave as an example interesting.. Well, then we live in completely different worlds, Adriant.

[Edit to remove bait]

Lugaldu · January 2021

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

I could have understood it, if all the mess he started was about, say, rescueing someone very dear to him. I.e. if his goal was understandable and credible with only the methods wrong.

Actually, I found it pretty clear that Verandis was a very important reason for him. Also the point that we could so easily find out from himself where he is, etc. This information was intended for Verandis and until the end Rada obviously couldn't imagine that he would betray him.

Ghanima_Atreides · January 2021

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Moreover, I can't understand that love of his expressed towards those vampires and werewolves - they were defeated once in a fair fight, wasn't it obvious that launching a similar war using the same plan is a lunacy? And for what goal? Why didn't he just decide to live his own eternal life and try to make it pleasant, why did he need that Host, Tamriel, Nirn?.. What for?

They were his friends and comrades. Evil people are allowed to have friends too, you know.

This is actually something I liked about this story: a villain who seemed more human, despite being a vampire, rather than just a generic cackling world conqueror.

That's point, Adriant!.. His actions had nothing common with a normal man's behaviour. You just cast off those fictious moments with magic, vampires, Molag Bal, and etc., imagine such a situation IRL when, say, some Axis high ranking guy who survived WW II, murders numerous people and risks greatly his life just because he feels a deep feeling of friendship and wants to free his fellow soldiers and war criminals. Sheer nonsense.

Actually I think that sounds like an interesting story and I'd watch it.

Just because someone is ruthless and amoral doesn't preclude them forming friendships, feeling loyalty, etc. Not all villains have to be in the one dimensional mold of Emperor Palpatine, and I found it refreshing that Rada al-Saran was driven by something other than just a muahahaha need to conquer the world.

And before Disney came Palpatine was not that "muahahaha" guy you speak of at all. I was not speaking of impossibility for "villains" to have friends or something, I was talking about a completely other thing. if you find that story I gave as an example interesting.. Well, then we live in completely different worlds, Adriant.

Rada al-Saran was an Ansei Sword-Singer, and retained their sense of loyalty to their comrades, though warped by his motivations. Just think of how many times he tried to get Verandis to re-join him, and kept referring to him as his "brother."

Apart from that, his ambitions were too great for just one person to accomplish - he needed help, put simply. He needed trusted lieutenants to find all the artefacts he needed and set into motion the events which would lead to his victory. But ultimately, whether you agree with it or not, he genuinely felt kinship towards the Grey Host and wanted to free them all from Molag Bal's control so they can have their little vampire utopia in their own plane of Oblivion. He thought that with the Harrowstorms and their imminent ascension to godhood, their defeat from the 1st era couldn't happen again. So, yes, hubris was involved, as is often the case with villains. I'm not saying the plan was brilliant or anything, but it would've been far more foolhardy to attempt all of this without a power base.

And I don't know which Palpatine you remember, but if my memory serves he's never been known for his complex motivations, even before Disney got involved; at least if we count just the movies.

EirgarthEldjarns · January 2021

I am not a fan of the one storyline way the game has been the last couple of years, I liked how it was you finished the chapter, and then there was a hint of what may come... and it all ties in at the end (the daedric triad set of releases for example)... also, the way it is done now, sort of takes away from the variety of yore... I am a big fan of nords in general (it is in my blood, so to speak), but I was sort of bored after awhile...

I am really hoping that the new storyline has a bit more variety, I expect it'll all be daedric realms, but I just don't want to be stuck in the same one throughout the whole year...

Heck, I always said that the Tamriel in ESO is a daedric plane located on the boil on the arse of Haskill... so the option to have a massive amount of variety is there.

As for being 'surprised', ESO has always been bad that way... I mean *cough cough* the Prophet...

Eir

RedMuse · January 2021

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

How can you say that Greymoor don't have a story..

It had a story, but it was paper thin. And I'm still not clear why much of it happened and why the heck Svargrim did what he did, because they spent all the time on something that didn't become important until Markath. So on top of being paper thin, it felt completely pointless. Only highlight was seeing Lyris again and to a degree Svana, but they wasted both women imo.

Funny thing is that Markath felt like it had a lot more meat and depth in spite being "only" a DLC. I really wish Markath had been the chapter because Greymoor was thin and pointless enough to only count as a DLC if you ask me, at least as far as story goes.

Erelah · January 2021

RedMuse wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

How can you say that Greymoor don't have a story..

It had a story, but it was paper thin. And I'm still not clear why much of it happened and why the heck Svargrim did what he did, because they spent all the time on something that didn't become important until Markath. So on top of being paper thin, it felt completely pointless. Only highlight was seeing Lyris again and to a degree Svana, but they wasted both women imo.

Funny thing is that Markath felt like it had a lot more meat and depth in spite being "only" a DLC. I really wish Markath had been the chapter because Greymoor was thin and pointless enough to only count as a DLC if you ask me, at least as far as story goes.

If it makes you feel better Chapters are DLCs. Back in ye old days Bethesda said all DLCs would be free with a sub. Then Morrowind came out and a few days before the launch, Morrwind suddenly was not a DLC but this new never mentioned before thing called a Chapter.

Aigym_Hlervu · January 2021

@Ghanima_Atreides, @Lugaldu, guys, are you serious thinking that I did not understand the plot of al-Saran's story and motivations depicted in the game? Read again what I have written above there. I've never been argueing that Rada "genuinely felt kinship towards the Grey Host". My message to Adriant - it touches you too then. You think Rada's motivations are credible to you - it's your right to think so. To me his story is too naive and childish - it might be credible to children, it might be a good fairy tale, but to me it's not credible at all. Let's leave it at this point.

Iccotak · January 2021

rrimöykk wrote: »

^

True, Greymoor was so not worth its' price. I do hope next chapter is.

I just got Greymoor when it was on sale for like $16

Iccotak · January 2021

Personally, I've always treated ESO as a Subscription game. Sure it technically is not P2P but the developers hint and nudge that the game is designed to be played with a subscription.

With that said I think ZOS do need to do more in a year than what the have now

For me ideally, we would get 3 story zones a year

like the Daedric War - which felt good because it had a beginning, middle, and end.
Morrowind, CWC, and Summerset

While Elsweyr felt very rushed. IMO We should have gone to the middle space in between Northern and Southern Elsweyr in Q3.
I could definitely have seen Maarselok as the main villain of Q3 Elsweyr jungle zone

Q1: Prologue + Dungeons x2
Q2: Chapter + Trial
Q3: Zone + Dungeons x2
Q3: Zone + Trial

Then Mix that up with Arenas and whatnot every year to keep things fresh. This of course would need bigger teams and more resources

Also if they are going to make these railroad stories that take the course over a year then they NEED to make a story guide for new players because dropping them off in the latest chapter has disadvantages concerning getting them invested.

exeeter702 · January 2021

Erelah wrote: »

RedMuse wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

How can you say that Greymoor don't have a story..

It had a story, but it was paper thin. And I'm still not clear why much of it happened and why the heck Svargrim did what he did, because they spent all the time on something that didn't become important until Markath. So on top of being paper thin, it felt completely pointless. Only highlight was seeing Lyris again and to a degree Svana, but they wasted both women imo.

Funny thing is that Markath felt like it had a lot more meat and depth in spite being "only" a DLC. I really wish Markath had been the chapter because Greymoor was thin and pointless enough to only count as a DLC if you ask me, at least as far as story goes.

If it makes you feel better Chapters are DLCs. Back in ye old days Bethesda said all DLCs would be free with a sub. Then Morrowind came out and a few days before the launch, Morrwind suddenly was not a DLC but this new never mentioned before thing called a Chapter.

This is a bit disingenuous tbh.

There was no suprise it's called a chapter now. The transition into the update structure of eso was well documented and communicated leading up to morrowind. Content updates like orsinium and IC were well in development at the time the game had officially launched. By the time eso went b2p, they were essentially converting all content that was in the pipeline for release into dlc releases while relegating the meatiest of content updates into chapters. And they did this with a full explanation of how they were going to treat thieves guild/dark brotherhood sized updates and how they were going to treat orsinium/IC sized updates (the later of which is a bit unique and doesnt conform to what chapters are now ofc).

VaranisArano · January 2021

I think Rada al-Saran was a great villain for a new player who hasn't yet defeated Molag Bal, the Triad, a would-be-god dragon, and battled through three alliances.

He's more complex of a character than, say, Molag Bal, Mannimarco, or Kaalgrontiid. And I appreciate that the stakes weren't entirely as apocalyptic as, say, Crystal Tower or the Planemeld. Variety is the spice of storytelling.

But for my Vestige, there was a moment when Rada finished bragging about how he's a master Ansei and dueled Leki to a draw, that Varanis just wanted to ask: "Do you know who i am? Do you know what I've done?"

Even if she'd gotten to boast, Rada was egotistical enough I don't think he'd have heeded the warning or, for that matter, cared that in carrying out his murderous plans he was losing the potential help that the defeater of Molag Bal would have offered if only he'd repented. Varanis dislikes vampires, but she hates Molag Bal a whole lot more. I suppose that missed opportunity lends some tragedy to the whole affair, but I gotta say that Varanis is going to kill him with a clear conscience when she gets the chance. No sympathy for the vampires from her.

On a roleplaying level, just once I'd like for an ESO villain to actually respect what it means that someone who's stood up to multiple Daedric Princes is coming for them. On a gameplay level, I'd like a final boss fight that's worthy of a year-long hype.

VaranisArano · January 2021

exeeter702 wrote: »

Erelah wrote: »

RedMuse wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

How can you say that Greymoor don't have a story..

It had a story, but it was paper thin. And I'm still not clear why much of it happened and why the heck Svargrim did what he did, because they spent all the time on something that didn't become important until Markath. So on top of being paper thin, it felt completely pointless. Only highlight was seeing Lyris again and to a degree Svana, but they wasted both women imo.

Funny thing is that Markath felt like it had a lot more meat and depth in spite being "only" a DLC. I really wish Markath had been the chapter because Greymoor was thin and pointless enough to only count as a DLC if you ask me, at least as far as story goes.

If it makes you feel better Chapters are DLCs. Back in ye old days Bethesda said all DLCs would be free with a sub. Then Morrowind came out and a few days before the launch, Morrwind suddenly was not a DLC but this new never mentioned before thing called a Chapter.

This is a bit disingenuous tbh.

There was no suprise it's called a chapter now. The transition into the update structure of eso was well documented and communicated leading up to morrowind. Content updates like orsinium and IC were well in development at the time the game had officially launched. By the time eso went b2p, they were essentially converting all content that was in the pipeline for release into dlc releases while relegating the meatiest of content updates into chapters. And they did this with a full explanation of how they were going to treat thieves guild/dark brotherhood sized updates and how they were going to treat orsinium/IC sized updates (the later of which is a bit unique and doesnt conform to what chapters are now ofc).

IIRC, they were fairly upfront about Morrowind being a cash-only Chapter.

What they were NOT upfront about was that after a year, Morrowind would become a DLC with Warden sold separately.

Now, to put the best construction on things, perhaps they were simply making things up as they went and didn't yet know they'd go with the "Old Chapter becomes DLC, New Chapter is cash only" release method. But at the time of Summerset's release, it felt like a nasty bait-and-switch for subscribers who, if they'd known Morrowind wouldn't always be cash-only, might have chosen to wait the year to get it with their subscription.

AVaelham · January 2021

I agree that the year long story has not been an efficient way to deliver the story so far. Unlike the Daedric Wars arc, both Elsweyr and Greymoor did not have a great pay-off to justify focusing on that particular story for an entire year. The chapter feels more like a rushed prologue and a normal DLC has more value price-wise, it's crazy.

Not to mention it kills the variety and appeal to some. If you don't like vampires, there's a whole year you'll be underwhelmed. Same for dragons etc. Back in 2018, you'd have Alinor and Murkmire, with a completely different vibe and story.

Being stuck in the forever year of 2E 582 is also not helping things. There is no feel of time advancing, even between the chapter and the DLC in the 'year of x'.

katanagirl1 · January 2021

adriant1978 wrote: »

The year long story also means that parts of that story are locked behind group dungeons, which isn't good for solo players. But nobody ever thinks of the solo players.

Don’t know about others, but this is one of the rare times I jump into the group finder queue and do the group dungeons, but only once each.

The thing I don’t like is that you can buy the chapter, but if you don’t have ESO Plus then you only get part of the story and don’t get the whole playable area. They did that with Elsweyr and I didn’t like it. Unfortunately this seems to be the new way of doing things.

I have the sub so it’s not a problem for me, but it just seems like a business model that doesn’t care for its customers, making them buy the chapter, then the dungeon dlc, and also the second part of the chapter zone dlc to get the whole story.

Lugaldu · January 2021

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

You think Rada's motivations are credible to you - it's your right to think so. To me his story is too naive and childish - it might be credible to children, it might be a good fairy tale, but to me it's not credible at all.

Love can make people do childish things

Ekzorka · January 2021

If a new story arch would be starts from summer dungeon dlc and ends with a chapter, it would have better effect.

adriant1978 · January 2021

katanagirl1 wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

The year long story also means that parts of that story are locked behind group dungeons, which isn't good for solo players. But nobody ever thinks of the solo players.

Don’t know about others, but this is one of the rare times I jump into the group finder queue and do the group dungeons, but only once each.

Luck was with you if you managed to find a group (and a PUG from the group finder no less) who were willing to actually let you see the story scenes and read the dialogue.

Ekzorka · January 2021

adriant1978 wrote: »

Luck was with you if you managed to find a group (and a PUG from the group finder no less) who were willing to actually let you see the story scenes and read the dialogue.

Isn't that what guilds are for?

barney2525 · January 2021

Its a game where new content is going to have sections that are repeatable ... Forever, thus players have reason to return after the Main questline is completed.

Thus, there is no Story, per se, such as Beginning ... Middle ... Ending ... and its over. Go find another book.

Or would you rather have DLC that you Buy ... and then Complete .... and it's done and over ???

Ghanima_Atreides · January 2021

Ekzorka wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Luck was with you if you managed to find a group (and a PUG from the group finder no less) who were willing to actually let you see the story scenes and read the dialogue.

Isn't that what guilds are for?

Believe it or not, some people (*raises hand*) have trouble finding a guild that fits them. I, too would love to experience the dungeon stories, but I am pretty particular about the way I want to do it (I'm not very social, I don't min-max, I don't do voice comms, I like to smell the flowers and listen to the full dialogue the first time around) and not many people are willing to put up with that. So, they remain unplayed.

Seraphayel · January 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

rrimöykk wrote: »

^

True, Greymoor was so not worth its' price. I do hope next chapter is.

I just got Greymoor when it was on sale for like $16

And even that is overpriced for the amount of content and features. Imagine paying $40 for that glorified DLC it was.

Mettaricana · January 2021

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

How can you say that Greymoor don't have a story..

It really didn't it was a load screen simulator with a plot so obvious a 5 year old could guess the outcome. Lyris was a text book definition of useless braindead and the vampire who never shuts up about his struggles and dire crap. Fast foward to markarth an even more boring load screen sim with a combined finale fight across realms against a lackluster vampire who can't just let dead dogs lie... honestly scrying grind was more engaging than the entire year. To top it off they revamped then over nerfed the following dlc the iconic selling point of the entire chapter vampires!!!

Sheridan · January 2021

Just don't shove the beginning of each year-long story arc in 4-player dungeons. Dungeons should be no more than a spin-off (like Scalebreaker or Stonethorn).

Sheridan · January 2021

Ekzorka wrote: »

If a new story arch would be starts from summer dungeon dlc and ends with a chapter, it would have better effect.

No, it would be better for a new story arc to start with a chapter and end with another chapter, maybe wih small zone dlc in the middle, some foreshadowing at the end of even another zone dlc before all that, and several references in the standalone zones released between that, with a total timespan of two and a half years. Yes, I am talking about Daedric War. That was the pinnacle of ESO.

VaranisArano · January 2021

barney2525 wrote: »

Its a game where new content is going to have sections that are repeatable ... Forever, thus players have reason to return after the Main questline is completed.

Thus, there is no Story, per se, such as Beginning ... Middle ... Ending ... and its over. Go find another book.

Or would you rather have DLC that you Buy ... and then Complete .... and it's done and over ???

The story quests aren't repeatable. You can return to the zone on an alt character or to farm, do dailies, or run group content, but the stories themselves are done and over for your character. Therefore, they do have a beginning, a middle, and an end. That's particularly true if you play the content as its released as a current player or a brand new player starting in the Chapter.

In the case of Greymoor, you could begin with the Q1 Harrowstorm Dungeons and the Greymoor Prologue but if you did, you got to rehash all that info in the first chunk of the Greymoor Chapter so ZOs could bring all the brand new players starting in Skyrim up to speed.

So the pacing is already off, since the Chapter is trying to be both a satisfying middle for experienced players and a beginning/middle for new players, without revealing too much. The goal of saving all the good stuff, of course, is to hype the finale of the story in Markarth, in Q4. This results is Skyrim feeling surprisingly empty of plot despite being such a large zone - like too little butter scraped over too much bread. Pray don't think too hard on the logic of using the cash-only Chapter zone to hype the smaller DLC.

Then it's time to realize the hype in the finale of the Dark Heart of Skyrim: Markarth. Here's the reveal of the meaning of the year-long story meaning! Here's the big climatic boss fight! All jam-packed into a little DLC zone, which makes The Reach feel small, but worth it. And if you've done both Greymoor and Markarth, you get to take on the Ashen Lord, who's been hyped for an entire year! Does he live up to the hype or is he defeated in the sort of fight designed for a newer player who's only played Greymoor and Markarth? Well, I'll let you decide that for yourself.

The year long story system has its benefits. Players get to know the characters. Writers get to build across several zones. Developers get to reuse models, assets, music, designs, enemies, and gameplay mechanics.

Unfortunately, ZOS' quarterly system of content release prevents them from telling a cohesive story for both current players doing Q1 dungeons and the Chapter Prologue and brand new players starting in the Chapter. The Q2 cash-only Chapter is starved of story content so it can better serve as a hype vehicle for the smaller Q4 DLC Finale. And when you've spent a whole year building up your villain but you also want newer players to be able to beat him, well, its pretty hard to satisfy everyone.

For new players, dusting off the ashes of the Ashen Lord and looking ahead wide-eyed with wonder to the years of old content they still have to get through, its a pretty good deal.

For more experienced players, who've done all the stories and are waiting around to find out if 2021's year-long story will be as fragmented as last year's...well, you'll have to decide for yourself how you feel.

BXR_Lonestar · January 2021

wolfbone wrote: »

year long story chapters ruin the chapters as they end up just being a glorified over priced dlc that ends up just being the start and not an actual story. like greymoor, there was no actual story to it. at least with elsweyr, it had a story and not some build up.

Greymoor did have a story. Whether you liked it or not is totally subjective. I, personally, enjoyed Greymoor. Was it their best chapter? Probably not, but I do like how they are tying in the dungeons into the main storyline for the new regions. Overall, I don't mind the year long story model, although I personally think they need to focus on performance issues over expanding the game right now. Otherwise, the game is quickly going to become unplayable, which sucks when you have a game that you actually WANT to play.

Mettaricana · January 2021

Sheridan wrote: »

Just don't shove the beginning of each year-long story arc in 4-player dungeons. Dungeons should be no more than a spin-off (like Scalebreaker or Stonethorn).

This right here id rather a random du geon with no relation to eachother amd it be just another undaunted location like all vanilla content. Maybe even add a dlc that adds a number 3 to some dungeons like lair of maarselok somwhat continues after the events of selenes web with selene even being a boss. And depths of malatar had quintus and his ex from vollefell. We need a vaults of madness 2 cuz the dialouge of the spirits left behind turned very dark amd foreboding. A city of ash 3 would be cool as well.