Current proc/tank meta !

ebix_ · January 2021

the state of pvp this patch is worse than worlds health care and you have to do something about it !
right now pvp players are divided to four groups

1. using proc sets
2. not using proc sets and complaining about it
3. using proc sets and complaining about it
4. dont care at all

I usually adapt to every patch and mostly I tell myself I dont care but deep down my heart I still care. all I'm asking is before you open the "gates of oblivion" and flood tamriel with new proc sets , listen to your players .
pvp is no longer enjoyable because procs are playing for us ,we are just light attacking sometimes to proc things. skill used to be the deciding factor in a fight , now its mostly about sets . half of the time you have to purge the other half you have to kite zaan and vateshran , most players are +35k health and since procs are carrying damage you are able to be as tanky as possible .

proc sets are overtuned and imo 10-15% nerf is needed, but even if you balance every proc set there is still malacath . if you consider malacath in your tests then proc sets will become useless without it and if you dont procs will be overpowered with it . so if you want to balance proc sets you have to do something about malacath first . imo malacath should not affect proc sets .

there should be a cap on how much tanky someone can get so putting more procs becomes more punishing because you have to give up healing ,and imo easiest solution is to put cap on max health in pvp . I think 27-30k is more than enough in cp and this will also bring health based heals to a normal state.

there is so much to talk about but to keep this long story short ,having a cap is needed to have balance ,if there is no limit there is no end and if there is no end there is no middle and middle point is where you balance things around it .

jeeeez its getting philosophic ! bye !

Sarannah · January 2021

Placing a max amount of HP is really unfair to the tankier builds in-game. This would make everyone have that exact amount of hp, and focus on DPS with everything else. Changing proc set damage output also harms PvE, so this should not be done either. There really should not be a need to change the game, simply because an unexpected meta appeared. The better solution would be to stop the proc set meta.

They should simply limit proc sets to 1 proc per 4 seconds globally over the entire character. no matter how many proc sets one wears. So if someone wears three proc sets, only one will go off every 4 seconds.

Grandchamp1989 · January 2021

Nerf proc sets by 50% when under the effect off battle spirit.

Would fix PVP and not hurt PVE.

MaleAmazon · January 2021

Ok you are thinking about this fundamentally wrong:

Whatever is the "best", statswise, in a competitive game, will *always* be the meta. It used to be 0 points in health, now it´s heavy investment in health. Everything in the game, from classes to stats go from "worthless" to "OMG OP". Regen, max stat, WD, vampire, you name it. Nerf proc sets and people will switch away from them to something else that everyone has to use.

The real problem IMO is that there are only 2 places in the game where stats even count: 12-player trials and lvl50 PvP.

Put in some proper difficulty in the game instead IMO.

Salvas_Aren · January 2021

proc sets crash your enemies clients, another big plus

Girl_Number8 · January 2021

Adapt because you do not have to be tanky to kill them or play one of the current metas. Also, eso PvP has become very causal and will constantly change, as the devs have shown us time after time again.

I was in favor of sets like NMA which seemed to be a right direction but many less skilled players wanted something different. So the best thing to do is enjoy the game for what it is.

All the nerfing and over nerfing brought the game to this.

The people losing at the casually competitive part of the game...,will always complain and blame everything but themselves. They would complain about a fair game of chess they accepted, saying it wasn’t balanced

PvP has many issues
•Performance
•Boosting
•Not enough challenges given
•Same peeps, same guilds working together on different factions Zerg size, boosting and selling empress.
•The hammer going to the current empys side, so they have both when it was designed to help fight the empy.

These things are far more detrimental then any current meta and are just still called creative thinking.

On the other hand, I still enjoy the all the classes and just playing PvP, as I have always done for over half a decade.

I go to other games for the more competive PvP

Ratzkifal · January 2021

It's been like this for quite some time and the matter has already been thoroughly discussed. ZOS seems to intend to wait until their next update releases to address this issue, which is a shame but can't be helped.

Simply nerfing proc sets won't do, because it'll just be a matter of time before the next proc meta arrives after the next balance screw-up from ZOS.
One promising approach to fix proc sets for good is having them scale with your offensive stats like any other skill, which reigns them in and makes tank setups exploiting proc sets an impossibility due to lack of damage.

PeterUnlustig · January 2021

I cant believe there are still that many players defending proc sets.

On a stat setup you need to balance healing, sustain, crit, crit multiplier, max stats and mitigation.

On proc setup you stack all you have into mitigation, sustain and healing (preferably max health scaling or proc sets since you dont need max stats) so you dont even have to balance or build anything. Without investing a single enchant, trait, mundus or set piece into stats you still deal much more damage then a stat based build.

How is this fair? How does this make any sense balancewise?

Jeremy · January 2021

ebix_ wrote: »

the state of pvp this patch is worse than worlds health care and you have to do something about it !
right now pvp players are divided to four groups

1. using proc sets
2. not using proc sets and complaining about it
3. using proc sets and complaining about it
4. dont care at all

I usually adapt to every patch and mostly I tell myself I dont care but deep down my heart I still care. all I'm asking is before you open the "gates of oblivion" and flood tamriel with new proc sets , listen to your players .
pvp is no longer enjoyable because procs are playing for us ,we are just light attacking sometimes to proc things. skill used to be the deciding factor in a fight , now its mostly about sets . half of the time you have to purge the other half you have to kite zaan and vateshran , most players are +35k health and since procs are carrying damage you are able to be as tanky as possible .

proc sets are overtuned and imo 10-15% nerf is needed, but even if you balance every proc set there is still malacath . if you consider malacath in your tests then proc sets will become useless without it and if you dont procs will be overpowered with it . so if you want to balance proc sets you have to do something about malacath first . imo malacath should not affect proc sets .

there should be a cap on how much tanky someone can get so putting more procs becomes more punishing because you have to give up healing ,and imo easiest solution is to put cap on max health in pvp . I think 27-30k is more than enough in cp and this will also bring health based heals to a normal state.

there is so much to talk about but to keep this long story short ,having a cap is needed to have balance ,if there is no limit there is no end and if there is no end there is no middle and middle point is where you balance things around it .

jeeeez its getting philosophic ! bye !

The problem is proc damage sets stack and cause too much burst damage. There is a reason these sets have a cool down built into them, because they would be too powerful without them. But when you have multiple players using them at once the cool down is circumvented and players die instantly. That's the problem here.

They just need to to have a proc damage immunity mechanism in place like they already have with CC effects. That would solve the problem.

thegreat_one · January 2021

There will always be a meta and people to complain about it instead of coming up with a counter for it.

StarOfElyon · January 2021

ebix_ wrote: »

the state of pvp this patch is worse than worlds health care and you have to do something about it !
right now pvp players are divided to four groups

1. using proc sets
2. not using proc sets and complaining about it
3. using proc sets and complaining about it
4. dont care at all

I usually adapt to every patch and mostly I tell myself I dont care but deep down my heart I still care. all I'm asking is before you open the "gates of oblivion" and flood tamriel with new proc sets , listen to your players .
pvp is no longer enjoyable because procs are playing for us ,we are just light attacking sometimes to proc things. skill used to be the deciding factor in a fight , now its mostly about sets . half of the time you have to purge the other half you have to kite zaan and vateshran , most players are +35k health and since procs are carrying damage you are able to be as tanky as possible .

proc sets are overtuned and imo 10-15% nerf is needed, but even if you balance every proc set there is still malacath . if you consider malacath in your tests then proc sets will become useless without it and if you dont procs will be overpowered with it . so if you want to balance proc sets you have to do something about malacath first . imo malacath should not affect proc sets .

there should be a cap on how much tanky someone can get so putting more procs becomes more punishing because you have to give up healing ,and imo easiest solution is to put cap on max health in pvp . I think 27-30k is more than enough in cp and this will also bring health based heals to a normal state.

there is so much to talk about but to keep this long story short ,having a cap is needed to have balance ,if there is no limit there is no end and if there is no end there is no middle and middle point is where you balance things around it .

jeeeez its getting philosophic ! bye !

ZOS bout to have us playing with this in a minute:

OlumoGarbag · January 2021

thegreat_one wrote: »

There will always be a meta and people to complain about it instead of coming up with a counter for it.

The whole problem here is that the meta we have is a braindead one button meta similar to sloads, torugs, old viper. Fights are not about skills anymore, you literally can't improve your gameplay anymore if you spam stampede over and over on meta stamden you are already at max performance.

We had those meta's before and they saw the problems and fixed them. Now we have this meta for over a year and they didn't even acknowledge it.

Lumenn · January 2021

Idk. I don't PvP much (when I used to I enjoyed battlegrounds more than the campaigns. All the riding on slow days was boring to me) but recently took 10 of my characters farming. The last couple days I DID see proc sets, werewolves, immortal mist vampires, etc but also saw a lot of unique builds. I never was elite to begin with but didn't have any issues making enough kills in two days, plus work and family. 25k is a far cry from emperor, but we're talking 10 characters in pve gear never pvp'd before, two days and other obligations on my time. I also haven't been in PvP in a couple of years and went solo(i will admit the new rules hurt solo play there. Just my opinion)

As mentioned above it seems there is always a new meta, or complaint. Wings are OP nerf! Templars are OP nerf! Werewolves are OP nerf! Swift is OP nerf! Streak/shields are OP nerf! Just to name a VERY few. It's never enough and this "King of the Hill" mentality is going to have us all playing in the mud with sticks, pve as well. It's one reason I quit PvP, and almost quit the game. Zos listens, (often takes action that leaves EVERYONE scratching their heads, but they listen) honestly trying to keep PvP happy and balance pve with it I wouldn't be surprised if zos really was trying to choke PvP out of the game

Two days and lvl one campaign even on 10 characters isn't much time invested at all. But proc sets weren't my biggest annoyance. Watching a faction member die and I can't heal them and the opposing factions flipping resources together bugged me a lot more.

Jaraal · January 2021

Ratzkifal wrote: »

It's been like this for quite some time and the matter has already been thoroughly discussed. ZOS seems to intend to wait until their next update releases to address this issue, which is a shame but can't be helped.

Has ZOS actually stated or inferred that there's even an issue with the proc set meta? If so, I haven't seen it.

The latest and greatest sets are a huge selling point for their chapter and DLC offerings. I hardly see them nerfing such a lucrative source of income.

AyaDark · January 2021

Against players with a lot of HP:
Use oblivion damage !!!
As example knight slayers, oblivion glyphs, and etc.

It is nerfed a little, but wait, did not youcry about them before tank meta ?

It was counterplay.

Why do not you enjoy changes you ask for ?

OlumoGarbag · January 2021

Lumenn wrote: »

As mentioned above it seems there is always a new meta, or complaint. Wings are OP nerf! Templars are OP nerf! Werewolves are OP nerf! Swift is OP nerf! Streak/shields are OP nerf! Just to name a VERY few.

you are 100% missing the point.
If a class is slightly better than another for some patches thats fine. No one is asking for all classes to be exactly the same.

The point is, that there are no classes anymore. No build choices. No viable off-meta builds. At least not on non-CP.
Every single non-Proc meta build is performing significantly worse then any proc meta build.

So all meaningfull choices come down to which proc sets you wear. Its clearly the most boring meta we have seen in a long time and takes away all player skill, build creativitiy and meaningfull spec choices.

AyaDark wrote: »

Against players with a lot of HP:
Use oblivion damage !!!
As example knight slayers, oblivion glyphs, and etc.

Even if you attack someone with 40k Health its still less damage then the meta proc sets.
Besides all those sets, that dont stack with max stats are the sole reason why we have this tank meta in the first place. If health tanks couldnt deal damage no one would give a damn about them since they would just stand there doing literally nothing.

Parasaurolophus · January 2021

Proc sets are not the problem. Really. Proc sets should have the right to exist both in pvp and pve. There are a lot of them and they were all garbage before. Such a gameplay style should exist, but should not be the only one as it is now. The problem is in the Malacath band. Its damage increase effect should only apply to abilities.
I would also like to draw attention to the excessive survivability of pvp players and heavy armor. Players were able to survive perfectly well before and inflict a huge amount of damage with the help of a combo without risking anything. I would suggest reducing the base spd / wpd by 400-500 points, and returning them in passives to light and medium armor. Although heavy armor still protects well, the damage should be reduced.

Bergzorn · January 2021

PeterUnlustig wrote: »

I cant believe there are still that many players defending proc sets.

On a stat setup you need to balance healing, sustain, crit, crit multiplier, max stats and mitigation.

On proc setup you stack all you have into mitigation, sustain and healing (preferably max health scaling or proc sets since you dont need max stats) so you dont even have to balance or build anything. Without investing a single enchant, trait, mundus or set piece into stats you still deal much more damage then a stat based build.

How is this fair? How does this make any sense balancewise?

It has been said many times by many players, but nevertheless I have to quote this since the problem is summed up very conscicely.

Of course one can create all kind of side discussions about the proc META, but basically, there are no different aspects to it. It is one well-defined problem. Fix it, ZOS.

Scardan · January 2021

I play BGs, there you can score kills and be helpful even with PvE build, without any proc sets. Also, I dont understand why people complain about proc sets. Use proc sets too, make tank builds, adapt and survive.

OlumoGarbag · January 2021

Scardan wrote: »

I play BGs, there you can score kills and be helpful even with PvE build, without any proc sets. Also, I dont understand why people complain about proc sets. Use proc sets too, make tank builds, adapt and survive.

lul what a comment

There is really nothing to say to you that hasent been said.

Icy_Waffles · January 2021

People will always go towards what is best and most effective.

Sneakers · January 2021

Malacath is a huge cheat item. Anyone denying how much it imbalances the game is in full blown denial.

ZOS is selling an entire failed expansion on 1 item.

25% dmg added - meanwhile nerfing all mayor buffs from 25-30% values down to 10%

Ring removes ability to critical - but keeps ability to crit heal

Ring replaces dynamic rng bonus dmg from crits with a flat value which most likely they arrived at after 3PE ing a database of crit dmg to bench towards

Proc sets cannot critical due to being OPED if allowed to crit - but malacath which replaces dynamic extra dmg from crits is acceptable.

It is beyond obvious marketing and sales are in full control of dev teams backlog on the scrum board and awarded 0 story pts to "jira issue MALACATH"

Shameful really.

Goregrinder · January 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Nerf proc sets by 50% when under the effect off battle spirit.

Would fix PVP and not hurt PVE.

That wouldn't "fix" PVP, the meta would just shift to something else and people would complain about it.

Juhasow · January 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Nerf proc sets by 50% when under the effect off battle spirit.

Would fix PVP and not hurt PVE.

Battle spirit already affects proc sets that way.

Parasaurolophus · January 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Nerf proc sets by 50% when under the effect off battle spirit.

Would fix PVP and not hurt PVE.

That wouldn't "fix" PVP, the meta would just shift to something else and people would complain about it.

Let's then the developers do nothing in balance?

Goregrinder · January 2021

BrownChicken wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Nerf proc sets by 50% when under the effect off battle spirit.

Would fix PVP and not hurt PVE.

That wouldn't "fix" PVP, the meta would just shift to something else and people would complain about it.

Let's then the developers do nothing in balance?

To do nothing drastic? Yes.

Sergykid · January 2021

still waiting for an argument as why proc sets being stats scaling would be bad.

SOLDIER_1stClass · January 2021

Personally I don't have a problem with proc sets.

They inherently aren't a problem. The problem is damage output in heavy armor.

Add a damage debuff per piece to heavy armor that applies to weapon/spell damage as well as proc damage.

This solves the WW problem, and tanky proc problem and overall heavy meta problem all in one go.

As it stands the damage difference between medium armor and heavy are armor is negligible, while their survivability differences is drastic.

Its about time Heavy armor took a nerf.

Mr_Gallows · April 2021

ebix_ wrote: »

the state of pvp this patch is worse than worlds health care and you have to do something about it !
right now pvp players are divided to four groups

1. using proc sets
2. not using proc sets and complaining about it
3. using proc sets and complaining about it
4. dont care at all

I usually adapt to every patch and mostly I tell myself I dont care but deep down my heart I still care. all I'm asking is before you open the "gates of oblivion" and flood tamriel with new proc sets , listen to your players .
pvp is no longer enjoyable because procs are playing for us ,we are just light attacking sometimes to proc things. skill used to be the deciding factor in a fight , now its mostly about sets . half of the time you have to purge the other half you have to kite zaan and vateshran , most players are +35k health and since procs are carrying damage you are able to be as tanky as possible .

proc sets are overtuned and imo 10-15% nerf is needed, but even if you balance every proc set there is still malacath . if you consider malacath in your tests then proc sets will become useless without it and if you dont procs will be overpowered with it . so if you want to balance proc sets you have to do something about malacath first . imo malacath should not affect proc sets .

there should be a cap on how much tanky someone can get so putting more procs becomes more punishing because you have to give up healing ,and imo easiest solution is to put cap on max health in pvp . I think 27-30k is more than enough in cp and this will also bring health based heals to a normal state.

there is so much to talk about but to keep this long story short ,having a cap is needed to have balance ,if there is no limit there is no end and if there is no end there is no middle and middle point is where you balance things around it .

jeeeez its getting philosophic ! bye !

Proc sets should just be removed completely from pvp. Both offensive and defensive proc sets make pvp suck.

But for balance proc sets should have a flat bonus that is not i fluenced by your stats, buffs or anything. It should be a bonus along the lines of getting 300 WD from hundings. Nothing more.

Sangwyne · April 2021

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

Personally I don't have a problem with proc sets.

They inherently aren't a problem. The problem is damage output in heavy armor.

Add a damage debuff per piece to heavy armor that applies to weapon/spell damage as well as proc damage.

Far too many people jumping on the bandwagon here and suggesting nerfs to every playstyle except their own. Tired of PvE playstyles being axed. Just nerf Malacath and be done with it, leave our stuff alone.

ebix_ wrote: »

proc sets are overtuned and imo 10-15% nerf is needed, but even if you balance every proc set there is still malacath

So nerf Malacath by 10-15%. Asking ZOS to rework every proc in the game is pointless when a much more feasible solution exists. Major Berserk was nerfed from 25% down to 10%. Major Slayer was nerfed. Crit was nerfed. Malacath wasn't.

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

Proc sets should just be removed completely from pvp. Both offensive and defensive proc sets make pvp suck.

Sneakers wrote: »

Malacath is a huge cheat item. Anyone denying how much it imbalances the game is in full blown denial.

ZOS is selling an entire failed expansion on 1 item.

25% dmg added - meanwhile nerfing all mayor buffs from 25-30% values down to 10%

Ring removes ability to critical - but keeps ability to crit heal

Ring replaces dynamic rng bonus dmg from crits with a flat value which most likely they arrived at after 3PE ing a database of crit dmg to bench towards

Proc sets cannot critical due to being OPED if allowed to crit - but malacath which replaces dynamic extra dmg from crits is acceptable.

It is beyond obvious marketing and sales are in full control of dev teams backlog on the scrum board and awarded 0 story pts to "jira issue MALACATH"

Shameful really.

Yup. Literally only exists to be exploited in PvP. All these other suggestions will hurt actual builds, nerfing Malacath only hurts people abusing the item.

[Edit to remove bait]

Xargas13 · April 2021

I know one game that introduced proc damage, every PvPer was pissed, even those that used it, here people are defending it... Someone summon uncle Sheo, more cheese!!! Cheese for everyone!!! *crazy laugh*