ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

@ESO_Nightingale Although I agree with your points - you would make some PVPers very angry by buffing wardens.

trust me man, i know the reasons why warden is considered so annoying and i don't want to make them overpowered, just better designed and more fun to play. arctic blast is one of the absolute biggest problems, it needs a complete rework to remove it's healing and to turn it into an offensive stun and damage skill, and polar wind and arctic wind need some restriction in pvp. arctic blast is a problem due to how annoying it is to fight against as it heals for so much, and is an extremely strong defensive stun on top of that. when we asked for a stun a while back, we were asking for an offensive one. not a jack of all trades master of healing.

meanwhile, living trellis needs a 55% buff to move it up in power, though this percentage increase sounds over the top, it's quite fair, still healing no-where near as much as arctic blast, or abilities like BoL. that's just how weak trellis is at the moment.

In no CP with 34k health and heavy armor, our arctic wind does not even heal for 4k.
Everything is OP in CP, but not no CP. So please keep that in mind when asking for nerfs.

How is magicka warden supposed to survive when Arctic heals for less or according to your bidding, even loses its heal entirely? The Polar Wind morph can gladly lose it and be turned into your suggestions. Though who would use that in pvp?
Spores are way too expensive as a heal in my opinion and heal for even less.

When tendrils is the only good heal, then Wardens would just go the magicka Nightblade route of crying for a burst heal. (Even though magblades already have one of the best healing over time with all tools combined)

if you didn't read what i said, i suggested that trellis have it's healing increased by 55% to be on par with blessing of restoration before major mending. arctic blast is such a problem in cp that it is absolutely in need of changing. polar wind is the far better morph for pve, so removing it from tanks in pve who use it in order to get arctic blast would be a really bad idea. if arctic blast 3.0 was reworked into the 4.0 suggestion, everyone who is a magden would use it for it's superior offensive stun, and combo worthy damage. as it currently stands, arctic blast's stun is extremely annoying to fight against for a lot of classes, and really hard to combo with. the only stuns we can use outside of the class are flame clench which requires the use of the fire staff and knocks targets back, or vampire which isn't that great in actual practice and requires vampirism.

This would force wardens into either a high spell damage setup to make spores good enough as a burst heal or when they build for health and take polar wind, they lose the stun.

something needs to be done about the absurd effect of health stacking in pvp. but also, no, again, if you read what i said, trellis should be buffed. the burst heal. blessing of restoration heals for more than shrooms, meaning you can use trellis as a solo heal if you really don't have room.

Okay, the burst heal of trellis. That would work I guess. I only thought of the small heals on hit being buffed.

Stahlor wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

something needs to be done about the absurd effect of health stacking in pvp.

I already made a suggestion a while ago, but the PVPers didn't like it. Damage penalty depending on high health. 1% damage reduction for every 500 more health starting at 20k health.

The result would be, people would need to decide for damage or tankiness. Squishy characters would be rewarded for being squishy. --> no 35k+ health characters anymore dealing insane damage.

That is a very aggressive proposal indeed.
A good start would be to simply bring health in line with magicka and stamina. Health enchants, health set pieces and point put into health give you more per instance than magicka and stamina. For no reason.

Originally it was done because nobody wanted to spec into health. To make it more attractive, they rewarded people who do with extra stats. That is of a bygone age and needs to be reverted immediately. This would not fix the whole issue, but at least bring health stacking more in line.

Why would anyone do something else than stacking health when proc sets deliver all the damage you need?
So nerf proc sets, make health even with mag and stam and then health stacking is still good, but you will not have high damage. As is the very base design of the game. Whatever happened to that?

Dracane wrote: »

That is a very aggressive proposal indeed.

It is aggressive, but would fix the issues in PVP without affecting PVE. Beside that, it would reward people again, that don't stack that much into health. What's the point of running with low health in PVP, if you can't kill any of the tanky characters, but they can still kill you easily? A tank shouldn't have that much damage.

Reducing damage of the proc sets would make them completely useless in the whole game. In PVE it is already reduced to a handful of sets most of the people are running around with.

Stahlor wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

That is a very aggressive proposal indeed.

It is aggressive, but would fix the issues in PVP without affecting PVE. Beside that, it would reward people again, that don't stack that much into health. What's the point of running with low health in PVP, if you can't kill any of the tanky characters, but they can still kill you easily? A tank shouldn't have that much damage.

Reducing damage of the proc sets would make them completely useless in the whole game. In PVE it is already reduced to a handful of sets most of the people are running around with.

I agree with the entire problem of tanks having too much damage etc. Just the solution, I do not like so much.
And they could easily have proc sets be reduced further by battle spirit to leave pve unaffected.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Every magicka class has sustain issues except of Magcros.

This isn't the first reference I've seen, but it still surprises me. When and how did magcro sustain get good?

It's thanks to the reusable parts passive, which decreases the cost of your next summon by 50%, so basically, if you do your rotation properly, the magicka drain of necromancer is way lower than other classes.

Mystic siphon is also a solid AOE that restores magicka over the duration. It does require a corpse on the ground but that’s easy enough with all the BB flying around. Another source of sustain when you need extra resistance for certain content comes from summoners armor which gives a 15% cost reduction to any summoned skill (BB, skeletal mage, spirit mender.) Necro has all kinds of nice tools in the toolbox that work well across the class. Warden on the other hand has more of a jack of all trades toolkit. It’s does a bit of everything but doesn’t do anything exceptionally well.

This is the big benefit Necromancer has. Mystic Siphon is not a full dps loss upon pushing the button. It gives sustain, but also damage to justify it.

Netch does not do that, neither does dark deal or siphoning attacks. Hence, nobody likes to use either as a serious DD.
The class designs and ideas are so beautiful and unique thematically, but do not cut it unless you want to lose several k of dps by using them.

Dracane wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Every magicka class has sustain issues except of Magcros.

This isn't the first reference I've seen, but it still surprises me. When and how did magcro sustain get good?

It's thanks to the reusable parts passive, which decreases the cost of your next summon by 50%, so basically, if you do your rotation properly, the magicka drain of necromancer is way lower than other classes.

Mystic siphon is also a solid AOE that restores magicka over the duration. It does require a corpse on the ground but that’s easy enough with all the BB flying around. Another source of sustain when you need extra resistance for certain content comes from summoners armor which gives a 15% cost reduction to any summoned skill (BB, skeletal mage, spirit mender.) Necro has all kinds of nice tools in the toolbox that work well across the class. Warden on the other hand has more of a jack of all trades toolkit. It’s does a bit of everything but doesn’t do anything exceptionally well.

This is the big benefit Necromancer has. Mystic Siphon is not a full dps loss upon pushing the button. It gives sustain, but also damage to justify it.

Netch does not do that, neither does dark deal or siphoning attacks. Hence, nobody likes to use either as a serious DD.
The class designs and ideas are so beautiful and unique thematically, but do not cut it unless you want to lose several k of dps by using them.

Netch gives your major sorcery though allowing you to run cheaper pots. So Necro has to get the buff from Degeneration instead, not necessarily a bad DOT to have on your bar but it’s 12 second duration is a bit awkward to keep up at times. We can cast it with mystic siphon though as it has the same uptime. I usually end up casting it either 2 ticks early or 1 tick late depending where I am in the rotation.

Necro though does have a downside and that is survivability. For the fantastic sustain and hard hitting power you have in PvE you can also die if a boss looks at you menacingly enough. The only real shield you have access to is harness magicka and 98% of the time that’s not worth the cost of the cast and ends up draining your mag pool when you have to block cast it through certain mechs to survive like starfall phase in vHRC HM. Harness magicka shield is gone from a single blast and your HP is halved after a second. I end up pre casting plus block casting 2 more times to survive this mechanic where my MagDK I precast igneous shield and block through with barely a dip in my HP at all.

I guess that’s what they consider class balance. Endless sustain against survivability.

As a Stamden main I feel for you as magden though. Stamden we can sustain for days but because of medium armor passives more so than the netch. The netch is there to bridge the gaps a little. When I am raiding on my magplar and MagDK though I fight for that sustain constantly and end up relying on spell symmetry to keep bringing the heat. Thankfully I have great healers that can keep me topped off or save me when I cast symmetry like an idiot during mechs like hugs on fire dragon or CR.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Every magicka class has sustain issues except of Magcros.

This isn't the first reference I've seen, but it still surprises me. When and how did magcro sustain get good?

It's thanks to the reusable parts passive, which decreases the cost of your next summon by 50%, so basically, if you do your rotation properly, the magicka drain of necromancer is way lower than other classes.

Mystic siphon is also a solid AOE that restores magicka over the duration. It does require a corpse on the ground but that’s easy enough with all the BB flying around. Another source of sustain when you need extra resistance for certain content comes from summoners armor which gives a 15% cost reduction to any summoned skill (BB, skeletal mage, spirit mender.) Necro has all kinds of nice tools in the toolbox that work well across the class. Warden on the other hand has more of a jack of all trades toolkit. It’s does a bit of everything but doesn’t do anything exceptionally well.

This is the big benefit Necromancer has. Mystic Siphon is not a full dps loss upon pushing the button. It gives sustain, but also damage to justify it.

Netch does not do that, neither does dark deal or siphoning attacks. Hence, nobody likes to use either as a serious DD.
The class designs and ideas are so beautiful and unique thematically, but do not cut it unless you want to lose several k of dps by using them.

That’s a good point. Maybe it would be better to give Warden passive sustain than to just buff the Netch. Would be really cool to see mag return on Chill procs, similar to how MagDK gets resources from Burning.

We would likely still need the Netch since sustain is so bad, but at least it could be an “as-needed” zero damage cast instead of a “keep it up all the time and still not enough” cast. And the Animal Companions passive make Netch not a complete waste to slot.

Even more synergy with their class associated status effect. Not that I disagree, but it makes me sad how Sorcerer has no synergy with lightning. We have... 5%... shock damage. That's it. No other synergy with that damage type.

I always hope they give Sorcerer some synergy with concussion to give it more of an identy as a shock mage.
Both Dragonknight and Warden have a lot more frost and fire damage buffs. Warden has 10% frost damage on top of their chilled crit damage. Dragonknight has anywhere between 10% fire damage from Engulfing Flame to 16% with World in Ruin. On top of magicka return on burn.

This is so cool and encourages both classes to build for that type and also utilize according enchants for a good feeling. Sorcerer has nothing like that. 5% shock damage does nothing really. And most shock abilities they have have very low damage to begin with. Boundless storm, lightning flood, streak and surge which has none, do not deal any substantial amounts of it.

Would be so cool to have increased concussion chances or so. But sorry, I am hijacking the thread. It's quite personal.

Dracane wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Every magicka class has sustain issues except of Magcros.

This isn't the first reference I've seen, but it still surprises me. When and how did magcro sustain get good?

It's thanks to the reusable parts passive, which decreases the cost of your next summon by 50%, so basically, if you do your rotation properly, the magicka drain of necromancer is way lower than other classes.

Mystic siphon is also a solid AOE that restores magicka over the duration. It does require a corpse on the ground but that’s easy enough with all the BB flying around. Another source of sustain when you need extra resistance for certain content comes from summoners armor which gives a 15% cost reduction to any summoned skill (BB, skeletal mage, spirit mender.) Necro has all kinds of nice tools in the toolbox that work well across the class. Warden on the other hand has more of a jack of all trades toolkit. It’s does a bit of everything but doesn’t do anything exceptionally well.

This is the big benefit Necromancer has. Mystic Siphon is not a full dps loss upon pushing the button. It gives sustain, but also damage to justify it.

Netch does not do that, neither does dark deal or siphoning attacks. Hence, nobody likes to use either as a serious DD.
The class designs and ideas are so beautiful and unique thematically, but do not cut it unless you want to lose several k of dps by using them.

That’s a good point. Maybe it would be better to give Warden passive sustain than to just buff the Netch. Would be really cool to see mag return on Chill procs, similar to how MagDK gets resources from Burning.

We would likely still need the Netch since sustain is so bad, but at least it could be an “as-needed” zero damage cast instead of a “keep it up all the time and still not enough” cast. And the Animal Companions passive make Netch not a complete waste to slot.

Even more synergy with their class associated status effect. Not that I disagree, but it makes me sad how Sorcerer has no synergy with lightning. We have... 5%... shock damage. That's it. No other synergy with that damage type.

I always hope they give Sorcerer some synergy with concussion to give it more of an identy as a shock mage.
Both Dragonknight and Warden have a lot more frost and fire damage buffs. Warden has 10% frost damage on top of their chilled crit damage. Dragonknight has anywhere between 10% fire damage from Engulfing Flame to 16% with World in Ruin. On top of magicka return on burn.

This is so cool and encourages both classes to build for that type and also utilize according enchants for a good feeling. Sorcerer has nothing like that. 5% shock damage does nothing really. And most shock abilities they have have very low damage to begin with. Boundless storm, lightning flood, streak and surge which has none, do not deal any substantial amounts of it.

Would be so cool to have increased concussion chances or so. But sorry, I am hijacking the thread. It's quite personal.

Agreed, I'm also a Sorcerer main. Don't forget Endless Fury/Mage's Wrath on your list of weak shock abilities. It's the only execute in the game that lowers your DPS. Sorc is basically a fire/magic damage class at this point, with only the pets being a significant source of shock damage. I'd actually say Necromancer is more of a shock build than Sorcerer, given mystic siphon and skeletal arcanist, as well as their 15% increase to DoTs like Wall of Storms, Thunderous Rage, Shock Reach and the Lightning proc of Ilambris (much better than Sorcerer's 5% bonus to these same abilities).

Consuming soul trap is a great way for Magdens to sustain in fights with adds. I’m finding myself running a dot build almost all the time now and it slots in perfectly.