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What if werewolf had to commit?
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renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Maybe make the poison weakness effect non-werewolf form as well, they should also take extra damage from silver while not transformed and there you go.
It should, because they're still a werewolf even if they're not transformed. They should still have all the same weaknesses.3 -
lillybit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think the point OP was trying to make is that if you choose to be a vampire, you're a vamp 100% of the time. You can't decide not to use it and everything is normal, there are drawbacks even at the lowest level.
With werewolves, if you don't slot it there's absolutely no drawbacks. You might as well make all your characters WW because it makes zero difference if you choose not to use it.
On the other hand, being a vampire has benefits too which you can choose to have available 100% of the time whereas WW have no benefits unless they transform, so it's swings and roundabouts.
Personally I'd like to see something carried over to non ww form just to make it a more meaningful choice. There should be some consequence to it rather than being something you can totally ignorePS4 EU1 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »People want to be able to toggle werewolf on and off instead of having a stupid timer but apparently that would be overpowered. Most werewolf players wouldn't mind being permanently stuck, but I can already hear pvp complaints about people always being ready in their werewolf form in Cyrodiil with no risk of it running out while moving from keep to keep.
Would 100 percent accept be fluffy all the time.0 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yes! Just because you have access to one part of the game, should not exclude you from or hinder you in another.Both vampire and werewolf should not have to 'commit'. Weaknesses yes, but no to vampire or werewolf dictating human form as well.
This is where the vampire remake made it's HUGE mistake.
Imagine if you became a member of the thievesguild or darkbrotherhood and would always have a bounty, no matter if you stole/killed recently. It doesn't make sense. You would never be able to enter town. This is how being a vampire feels at the moment, punished while not even playing like one. Werewolf should not get the same issue pushed upon itself.
PS: In my opinion werewolfs are way too strong at the moment, and they should get nerfed.
So do you think it's fine to be a werewolf and be able to play exactly the same as a mortal? There's no reason to be normal atm.
Like I mentioned in my example about the Thieves guild and Dark brotherhood, once a thief/killed always a thief/killer. That type of stuff does not work in an MMO. In MMO's we should be able to play parts of the game, while at the same time we do not use other different parts of the game.
You can also turn that around: You are a werewolf, you now 100% have to use werewolf form all the time... forcing stuff like that doesn't work in MMO's. This is why the vampire re-make affecting human skills/form is just silly(for lack of a better word).
MMO's are meant to be played for longer time periods. When today I may join a dungeon, tomorrow I may like a BG. Today I may love running around as a wolf, tomorrow I may not. The longer term is more important in this case, which is to allow access, while not dealing punishments for when one does not want to play a certain way right now.
You didn't answer the part about mortals. What's a good reason to stay normal rather than be a werewolf? None atm.
There's no reason for average player to be it. I have yet to see werewolf apocalypse like we had with the vampires2 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Most players created their character, and like to play as such. And most players do not feel like playing a werewolf, just because it is overpowered(at the moment). Many characters are not stamina based characters either, so they have no reason to play as werewolf as well.
Yes! Just because you have access to one part of the game, should not exclude you from or hinder you in another.Both vampire and werewolf should not have to 'commit'. Weaknesses yes, but no to vampire or werewolf dictating human form as well.
This is where the vampire remake made it's HUGE mistake.
Imagine if you became a member of the thievesguild or darkbrotherhood and would always have a bounty, no matter if you stole/killed recently. It doesn't make sense. You would never be able to enter town. This is how being a vampire feels at the moment, punished while not even playing like one. Werewolf should not get the same issue pushed upon itself.
PS: In my opinion werewolfs are way too strong at the moment, and they should get nerfed.
So do you think it's fine to be a werewolf and be able to play exactly the same as a mortal? There's no reason to be normal atm.
Like I mentioned in my example about the Thieves guild and Dark brotherhood, once a thief/killed always a thief/killer. That type of stuff does not work in an MMO. In MMO's we should be able to play parts of the game, while at the same time we do not use other different parts of the game.
You can also turn that around: You are a werewolf, you now 100% have to use werewolf form all the time... forcing stuff like that doesn't work in MMO's. This is why the vampire re-make affecting human skills/form is just silly(for lack of a better word).
MMO's are meant to be played for longer time periods. When today I may join a dungeon, tomorrow I may like a BG. Today I may love running around as a wolf, tomorrow I may not. The longer term is more important in this case, which is to allow access, while not dealing punishments for when one does not want to play a certain way right now.
You didn't answer the part about mortals. What's a good reason to stay normal rather than be a werewolf? None atm.
The players currently playing werewolf only do so because they either like playing as one, or are into min-maxing and want to make use of being an overpowered werewolf while it lasts.0 -
Pauwer✭✭✭✭✭Werewolves are so lame. I think we should be able to put the questionable meatsack on the ground and werewolves would automatically go to it, because uhh, my dog loves everything that smells funky and they'd go into 10 sec puking animation that they can't break free from.0 -
Skykaiser_Ọlọrun✭✭✭No. Stop. The whole, commitment/"bUT iT's A cUrSe" RP-nonsense already drove vampires into the dirt. I don't need to get punched in the stomach at every turn just because I picked one particular subclass.
Why do we only limit this conversation to vampires and werewolves? How many Magicka characters do we have running around here with Fighter's Guild skills? Non-PvPers with Alliance War skills?
If you're gonna do it, do it for real.Edited by Skykaiser_Ọlọrun on January 11, 2021 8:28AM7 -
VampireLordLover99✭✭✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »Vampire always has a downside and upsides through passives that can't be unslotted or turned off. That's one thing I love about vampire, you can always feel it there.
Currently there isn't really a choice between mortal and werewolf is there? There's no real reason to say no. You can just unslot and play a mortal whenever.
Thoughts? Could fit into a rework if it ever happened.
Downside should be that they can only use their WW Morph during a full moon! PERIOD!
That isn't how werewolves work in the ES world.2 -
VampireLordLover99✭✭✭✭
Yes! Just because you have access to one part of the game, should not exclude you from or hinder you in another.Both vampire and werewolf should not have to 'commit'. Weaknesses yes, but no to vampire or werewolf dictating human form as well.
This is where the vampire remake made it's HUGE mistake.
Imagine if you became a member of the thievesguild or darkbrotherhood and would always have a bounty, no matter if you stole/killed recently. It doesn't make sense. You would never be able to enter town. This is how being a vampire feels at the moment, punished while not even playing like one. Werewolf should not get the same issue pushed upon itself.
PS: In my opinion werewolfs are way too strong at the moment, and they should get nerfed.
So do you think it's fine to be a werewolf and be able to play exactly the same as a mortal? There's no reason to be normal atm.
Like I mentioned in my example about the Thieves guild and Dark brotherhood, once a thief/killed always a thief/killer. That type of stuff does not work in an MMO. In MMO's we should be able to play parts of the game, while at the same time we do not use other different parts of the game.
You can also turn that around: You are a werewolf, you now 100% have to use werewolf form all the time... forcing stuff like that doesn't work in MMO's. This is why the vampire re-make affecting human skills/form is just silly(for lack of a better word).
MMO's are meant to be played for longer time periods. When today I may join a dungeon, tomorrow I may like a BG. Today I may love running around as a wolf, tomorrow I may not. The longer term is more important in this case, which is to allow access, while not dealing punishments for when one does not want to play a certain way right now.
You didn't answer the part about mortals. What's a good reason to stay normal rather than be a werewolf? None atm.
I for one think mortals should have a 'mortal only' meridia line or death-hunter line (the vamp/werewolf hunters of this game)3 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »People want to be able to toggle werewolf on and off instead of having a stupid timer but apparently that would be overpowered. Most werewolf players wouldn't mind being permanently stuck, but I can already hear pvp complaints about people always being ready in their werewolf form in Cyrodiil with no risk of it running out while moving from keep to keep.
I think the toggling on/off would actually be pretty decent IMO. I'm sure people would complain about it in PVP, but TBH, werewolves commit 100% to melee/close quarters combat, so I don't see a real issue there. If your defending a keep against a ton of werewolves, they have no way to harm you unless they're backed up by mortals using ranged attacks/seige.
True, they could always unmorph, but perhaps the passives for werewolf could be reworked where you actually received debuffs when you toggled WW off so that they just wouldn't want to be in mortal form for anything. Or sets tuned so they receive little-to-no bonuses while in mortal form.1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Maybe make the poison weakness effect non-werewolf form as well, they should also take extra damage from silver while not transformed and there you go.
Closest thing ESO has to making a weapon a silver weapon besides the Fighter's Guild stuff (which werewolves are weak to) is the Prismatic Weapon glyph. Now this has me wondering but does the Prismatic Weapon work on werewolves or is it just Daedra and undead?Edited by Vevvev on January 11, 2021 3:53PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
hexentb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Maybe instead of changing werewolf to have permanent debuffs they should make vampirism not suck so much. Removing the spell cost increase and health recovery reduction would be a good start.
...or they could just let us choose the old vampire skill line instead.1 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Reason to not be a werewolf on all your characters and not use it? It takes 20+ skill points to max it out.Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Maybe make the poison weakness effect non-werewolf form as well, they should also take extra damage from silver while not transformed and there you go.
Closest thing ESO has to making a weapon a silver weapon besides the Fighter's Guild stuff (which werewolves are weak to) is the Prismatic Weapon glyph. Now this has me wondering but does the Prismatic Weapon work on werewolves or is it just Daedra and undead?
That is a very good question, can anyone confirm this?0 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the point OP was trying to make is that if you choose to be a vampire, you're a vamp 100% of the time. You can't decide not to use it and everything is normal, there are drawbacks even at the lowest level.
With werewolves, if you don't slot it there's absolutely no drawbacks. You might as well make all your characters WW because it makes zero difference if you choose not to use it.
On the other hand, being a vampire has benefits too which you can choose to have available 100% of the time whereas WW have no benefits unless they transform, so it's swings and roundabouts.
Personally I'd like to see something carried over to non ww form just to make it a more meaningful choice. There should be some consequence to it rather than being something you can totally ignore
Exactly my thoughts. If you can unslot and play a completely normal character then why not take werewolf for everyone? You don't even need to use it or put points into it.Edited by Ryuvain on January 11, 2021 10:21PMThat one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.0 -
Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭Whats the downside to a Werewolf anyway? They're DDs and Tanks at the same time.- move set limited to 4 moderately expensive stam skills
- very expensive magicka heal
- no purge ability
- increased damage from poison by 25%
- melee only
- 20% increased damage from fg abilities
- no ultimate
- primary means of attack are easily avoided [if you know how they work]
- transformation is expensive ult wise
- if strong in ww form then human form is comically weak
- needs to feed on corpses or almost constantly attack to maintain wolf form, leaving them vulnerable to kiting
and for those of you that go "but they melt me"
how to kill a ww- Apply dots
- apply debuffs
- realize their light attack has a hit reg box like jabs, and avoid them
- hit their ass
- laugh as they either run from you or melt
Let me fix this for you.
*only has 4 abilities making it a lot easier with no bars to worry about
*Super strong heal based off max HP so just slot heavy armor...
WW has to be the most brain dead easy mode in the game. Let me just drop this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1_OAKPjUHs&t=201s Dude Where's My Guar?0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »Whats the downside to a Werewolf anyway? They're DDs and Tanks at the same time.- move set limited to 4 moderately expensive stam skills
- very expensive magicka heal
- no purge ability
- increased damage from poison by 25%
- melee only
- 20% increased damage from fg abilities
- no ultimate
- primary means of attack are easily avoided [if you know how they work]
- transformation is expensive ult wise
- if strong in ww form then human form is comically weak
- needs to feed on corpses or almost constantly attack to maintain wolf form, leaving them vulnerable to kiting
and for those of you that go "but they melt me"
how to kill a ww- Apply dots
- apply debuffs
- realize their light attack has a hit reg box like jabs, and avoid them
- hit their ass
- laugh as they either run from you or melt
Let me fix this for you.
*only has 4 abilities making it a lot easier with no bars to worry about
*Super strong heal based off max HP so just slot heavy armor...
WW has to be the most brain dead easy mode in the game. Let me just drop this here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1_OAKPjUHs&t=201s
Imagine linking a build that´s genuinely bad. Outside of alessian and chudan the rest is just an no dmg tank. WW heal is overtuned for sure, but there´re far better builds out there than the meme grim posted.3 -
Eirikir✭✭✭✭I've been a wolf a looong time in this game. After years of trash I'm actually enjoying being a bit op and live in fear of the nerd-hammer.Server: PS4-NA
PSN: Eirikir
Name: Eirikir "Erik" Kololf
Alliance: Ebonheart Pact
Race: Nord (Lycanthrope)
Class: Dragonknight (Range DPS)
Playstyle: Crafter, PVE, PVP, Roleplayer0 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »People want to be able to toggle werewolf on and off instead of having a stupid timer but apparently that would be overpowered. Most werewolf players wouldn't mind being permanently stuck, but I can already hear pvp complaints about people always being ready in their werewolf form in Cyrodiil with no risk of it running out while moving from keep to keep.
I think the toggling on/off would actually be pretty decent IMO. I'm sure people would complain about it in PVP, but TBH, werewolves commit 100% to melee/close quarters combat, so I don't see a real issue there. If your defending a keep against a ton of werewolves, they have no way to harm you unless they're backed up by mortals using ranged attacks/seige.
True, they could always unmorph, but perhaps the passives for werewolf could be reworked where you actually received debuffs when you toggled WW off so that they just wouldn't want to be in mortal form for anything. Or sets tuned so they receive little-to-no bonuses while in mortal form.
So your solution to WWs would be just never leave keep walls? You dont see an issue with this?0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »Whats the downside to a Werewolf anyway? They're DDs and Tanks at the same time.- move set limited to 4 moderately expensive stam skills
- very expensive magicka heal
- no purge ability
- increased damage from poison by 25%
- melee only
- 20% increased damage from fg abilities
- no ultimate
- primary means of attack are easily avoided [if you know how they work]
- transformation is expensive ult wise
- if strong in ww form then human form is comically weak
- needs to feed on corpses or almost constantly attack to maintain wolf form, leaving them vulnerable to kiting
and for those of you that go "but they melt me"
how to kill a ww- Apply dots
- apply debuffs
- realize their light attack has a hit reg box like jabs, and avoid them
- hit their ass
- laugh as they either run from you or melt
Let me fix this for you.
*only has 4 abilities making it a lot easier with no bars to worry about
*Super strong heal based off max HP so just slot heavy armor...
WW has to be the most brain dead easy mode in the game. Let me just drop this here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1_OAKPjUHs&t=201s
Imagine linking a build that´s genuinely bad. Outside of alessian and chudan the rest is just an no dmg tank. WW heal is overtuned for sure, but there´re far better builds out there than the meme grim posted.
It's actually a pretty fun build 😀0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »People want to be able to toggle werewolf on and off instead of having a stupid timer but apparently that would be overpowered. Most werewolf players wouldn't mind being permanently stuck, but I can already hear pvp complaints about people always being ready in their werewolf form in Cyrodiil with no risk of it running out while moving from keep to keep.
I think the toggling on/off would actually be pretty decent IMO. I'm sure people would complain about it in PVP, but TBH, werewolves commit 100% to melee/close quarters combat, so I don't see a real issue there. If your defending a keep against a ton of werewolves, they have no way to harm you unless they're backed up by mortals using ranged attacks/seige.
True, they could always unmorph, but perhaps the passives for werewolf could be reworked where you actually received debuffs when you toggled WW off so that they just wouldn't want to be in mortal form for anything. Or sets tuned so they receive little-to-no bonuses while in mortal form.
So your solution to WWs would be just never leave keep walls? You dont see an issue with this?
Not saying it is the only example of how to handle Werewolves, I'm just saying pointing out a fact that Werewolves have a significant disadvantage in certain situations as well.
If you happen to encounter them in the open field, yes, that is going to be a different story, but they're strictly melee characters, suffer 20% more damage from dawnbreaker, and they're stamina-based in terms of attacks. Seems to me like if you were a fast, ranged character using stamina drain potions and had a dawnbreaker handy, you got a fighting chance, which is all anyone can ask for in PVP.0 -
prof_doom✭✭✭✭✭I can't help but notice that a great deal of the discussion is centered around issues with how vampires work, as opposed to actually having issues with Werewolves.
I can understand that. Given how pretty much every NPC vampire in the game can run around with nobody the wiser, it does seem lame that our character is the only vampire in the game who can't.
Don't get me wrong, you actually do any vampire skills in public (other than hypnosis), you should get called out just like when I accidentally walk into town my with skeletons still up as a Necromancer, or if you actually ran into town as a Werewolf.
If you really insist that it "cost something", make a passive for "disguise vampirism". Make people put skill points into it, 1 skill point = hide 1 level of vampirism, so if you wanna run around at stage 4 all day, you have to invest the skill points.0