LOL Seriously, ZOS, a DPS Check on Veteran Vateshran Final Boss?

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

Have you considered playing a character built for veteran content?
It's pretty helpful...

The character was built for veteran content... the first three zones of vet Vateshran were fine -- and this character has also beat VMA.

If you can't beat this check on your standard DPS build your character is not built for vet content. Its not much of a DPS check. Idk what the point is of running a tank through a solo arena. The content is meant to challenge you, if you aren't looking for a challenge try it on normal.

This build offered me way more of a "challenge" than any of my straight-up DPS builds. As I have already explained, because the damage output of that tanky build was much lower, it meant the difficulty went up throughout most of Vateshran Hollows because I had to do way more of the mechanics. I had to be on my game to get through the lengthier fights. On my straight DPS characters I just burned through and it's far less of a "challenge."

Protossyder · January 2021

Looks like the Vateshran Arena is not for you. Be happy that we get various mechanics and not just AoEs we have to get out (You'd probably be crying about getting one shot by them if it wasn't for the DPS check...) It's a good thing the game occasionally forces you to adjust your build. Tbh I am pretty sure you can still overcome the DPS check with your setup, since gear is not the only thing that counts..

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

Protossyder wrote: »

Looks like the Vateshran Arena is not for you. Be happy that we get various mechanics and not just AoEs we have to get out (You'd probably be crying about getting one shot by them if it wasn't for the DPS check...) It's a good thing the game occasionally forces you to adjust your build. Tbh I am pretty sure you can still overcome the DPS check with your setup, since gear is not the only thing that counts..

Seems like you are missing the point of the post. It's not that Vateshran Hollows is "not for me" (I've already done a Vet no sigil no death run), it's that it's silly to have a DPS check mechanic that so strongly encourages someone to change their build.

mobicera · January 2021

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Looks like the Vateshran Arena is not for you. Be happy that we get various mechanics and not just AoEs we have to get out (You'd probably be crying about getting one shot by them if it wasn't for the DPS check...) It's a good thing the game occasionally forces you to adjust your build. Tbh I am pretty sure you can still overcome the DPS check with your setup, since gear is not the only thing that counts..

Seems like you are missing the point of the post. It's not that Vateshran Hollows is "not for me" (I've already done a Vet no sigil no death run), it's that it's silly to have a DPS check mechanic that so strongly encourages someone to change their build.

Are you really still all upset about this?
Vet content has dps checks this isn't new.
There is nothing wrong with the dps check in here.
Its honestly so low as to essentially not even be there.
Not all buids are really viable for everyone and everything.
This is just as it is, nor is there any reason to remove mechanics regardless of the simplicity to cater to rp builds in vet content.
I'm sorry you can't understand this.

MasterSpatula · January 2021

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

mobicera wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Looks like the Vateshran Arena is not for you. Be happy that we get various mechanics and not just AoEs we have to get out (You'd probably be crying about getting one shot by them if it wasn't for the DPS check...) It's a good thing the game occasionally forces you to adjust your build. Tbh I am pretty sure you can still overcome the DPS check with your setup, since gear is not the only thing that counts..

Seems like you are missing the point of the post. It's not that Vateshran Hollows is "not for me" (I've already done a Vet no sigil no death run), it's that it's silly to have a DPS check mechanic that so strongly encourages someone to change their build.

Are you really still all upset about this?
Vet content has dps checks this isn't new.
There is nothing wrong with the dps check in here.
Its honestly so low as to essentially not even be there.
Not all buids are really viable for everyone and everything.
This is just as it is, nor is there any reason to remove mechanics regardless of the simplicity to cater to rp builds in vet content.
I'm sorry you can't understand this.

There doesn't have to be a DPS check -- that's the point of the thread. All that check in vet Vateshran Hollows does is serve as a barrier to some lesser damage builds that are already harder to play on than higher-damage builds.

I'm sorry you can't understand that this single mechanic doesn't have to exist.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

Thank you. It's nice to have someone who is capable of seeing the point of the thread for what it is instead of piling on with irrelevant arguments.

mobicera · January 2021

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

Thank you. It's nice to have someone who is capable of seeing the point of the thread for what it is instead of piling on with irrelevant arguments.

I see the point of it, its just not a very good one...

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

They can believe anything they want, however dps checks in vet content exist and have for years.
They just want a mechanic changed so it caters to builds that aren't designed with the current vet ideology.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

mobicera wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

Thank you. It's nice to have someone who is capable of seeing the point of the thread for what it is instead of piling on with irrelevant arguments.

I see the point of it, its just not a very good one...

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

They can believe anything they want, however dps checks in vet content exist and have for years.
They just want a mechanic changed so it caters to builds that aren't designed with the current vet ideology.

"I see the point of it, its just not a very good one..."
Care to explain why it's not a very good one?

"They just want a mechanic changed so it caters to builds that aren't designed with the current vet ideology."
Please do go into specific detail about the "current vet ideology."

mobicera · January 2021

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

Thank you. It's nice to have someone who is capable of seeing the point of the thread for what it is instead of piling on with irrelevant arguments.

I see the point of it, its just not a very good one...

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

They can believe anything they want, however dps checks in vet content exist and have for years.
They just want a mechanic changed so it caters to builds that aren't designed with the current vet ideology.

"I see the point of it, its just not a very good one..."
Care to explain why it's not a very good one?

"They just want a mechanic changed so it caters to builds that aren't designed with the current vet ideology."
Please do go into specific detail about the "current vet ideology."

No you don't really want to listen to anything but what you want to hear, your cup is overflowing.
You know you are weakening yourself, you admitted it, you know the build isn't ideal you admitted it, you know you are intentionally prolonging a dps check.
You know all this and still seem to want zos to change mechanics of a VET arena to suit your idea of how mechanics should work.
This isn't even reasonable.
Dps checks are a legitimate mechanic in vet content and its probably not going anywhere.
But I'm checking out at this point.
Cheers

Merlin13KAGL · January 2021

I don't believe, for one minute, that they can't be creative enough to provide progression paths tied to either of the other two roles, each requiring a level of proficiency to clear.

There is often complaint about lack of qualified healers and tanks, yet there is no real solo offering to improve someone's skills in this area.

They can manage three portals with differing themes, but they can't manage three different paths, one for each role type?

They could even be combined into the combination of your choosing, if you wished, for the complete clear. 27 combinations for three areas, adding a whole different feel to the content.

The problem isn't that there is a DPS check. The problem is that it is the only viable way to pass to the final goal (cheese excluded), based essentially around one of three roles.

There should be solo content for all roles. There should be a gauntlet/training area where one could hone their skills on any of these, as well.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

mobicera wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

Thank you. It's nice to have someone who is capable of seeing the point of the thread for what it is instead of piling on with irrelevant arguments.

I see the point of it, its just not a very good one...

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've rarely seen so many people so eager to disregard what someone actually said just so they can insult a person.

OP said they have completed the content handily on other characters.

OP said they have completed the content on this character with this adjustments to the build.

OP simply believes a tanky enough character should be able to use survivability to win the encounter rather than brute-force DPS. You're under no obligation to agree, but that's no reason to look down your nose at someone and degrade them.

They can believe anything they want, however dps checks in vet content exist and have for years.
They just want a mechanic changed so it caters to builds that aren't designed with the current vet ideology.

"I see the point of it, its just not a very good one..."
Care to explain why it's not a very good one?

"They just want a mechanic changed so it caters to builds that aren't designed with the current vet ideology."
Please do go into specific detail about the "current vet ideology."

No you don't really want to listen to anything but what you want to hear, your cup is overflowing.
You know you are weakening yourself, you admitted it, you know the build isn't ideal you admitted it, you know you are intentionally prolonging a dps check.
You know all this and still seem to want zos to change mechanics of a VET arena to suit your idea of how mechanics should work.
This isn't even reasonable.
Dps checks are a legitimate mechanic in vet content and its probably not going anywhere.
But I'm checking out at this point.
Cheers

I am very much willing to listen. It's too bad you can't consider someone else's perspective and simply don't want to have that discussion.

I think it's absolutely reasonable to discuss the merit of adding an additional mechanic to the ring that isn't exclusively a DPS check so that builds with different playstyles (like a tankier build) aren't so encouraged to change their build. You can keep the DPS check as an option, or perform a different mechanic to get through the ring.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The problem is that it is the only viable way to pass to the final goal (cheese excluded), based essentially around one of three roles.

Yes, it's too bad some are struggling to understand this. Options are fantastic to have, so having other ways to get through the ring opens up more possibilities for different play styles.

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2021

1. "play as u want" is still just advertising and doest work
2. do u expect to be able to complete hard endgame content with trash/without gear ?
3. u can avoid the dps check on 1 class (with a blade u can tp throw the ring)
4. stop mimi pls

SupremeRissole · January 2021

I'm seeing more and more of these posts of people going "how dare this content require me to change my build ever so slightly* thats like me complaining that I need to run a different food because of sustain issues or something like that. It's a solo arena and to be honest that ring of death is the most eventful part of that whole arena.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

SupremeRissole wrote: »

I'm seeing more and more of these posts of people going "how dare this content require me to change my build ever so slightly* thats like me complaining that I need to run a different food because of sustain issues or something like that. It's a solo arena and to be honest that ring of death is the most eventful part of that whole arena.

I don't think the food comparison is a good one because changing food is a small tweak compared to overhauling how a build approaches combat (tank build vs. damage build, for example).

hexentb16_ESO · January 2021

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I went in blind with a tanky/fun disease-themed Necro build that uses Plague Slinger and Leeching. Of course I'm not efficient killing enemies, but it's a fun thematic golded-out build and it was doing great as long as my mechanics were tight. I was nowhere near on pace for a leaderboard score, but I didn't care, I was using my fun build and mastering the mechanics.

Then, I get to the final boss and encounter the ring of death DPS check. Are you serious, ZOS, with this nonsense? It seems silly that the game so drastically encourages me to change my build because of a single mechanic. I mean, we wouldn't want people playing how they want, right? Why should the same build that gets a player through the first 3 zones of Vateshran still be expected to compete in the final zone, right?

Yeah thats one of the reasons that turns me off of some game content. It feels like some of it requires a specific build instead of just a good build. I'd rather just skip the content then waste a bunch of time and money just so I can do it. My dps is really good and I haven't died to the closing circle since my first run but even I think the vet dps check is too high.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I went in blind with a tanky/fun disease-themed Necro build that uses Plague Slinger and Leeching. Of course I'm not efficient killing enemies, but it's a fun thematic golded-out build and it was doing great as long as my mechanics were tight. I was nowhere near on pace for a leaderboard score, but I didn't care, I was using my fun build and mastering the mechanics.

Then, I get to the final boss and encounter the ring of death DPS check. Are you serious, ZOS, with this nonsense? It seems silly that the game so drastically encourages me to change my build because of a single mechanic. I mean, we wouldn't want people playing how they want, right? Why should the same build that gets a player through the first 3 zones of Vateshran still be expected to compete in the final zone, right?

Yeah thats one of the reasons that turns me off of some game content. It feels like some of it requires a specific build instead of just a good build. I'd rather just skip the content then waste a bunch of time and money just so I can do it. My dps is really good and I haven't died to the closing circle since my first run but even I think the vet dps check is too high.

I wouldn't even mind the existence of a high DPS check as an option IF there was another way/mechanic to deal with the ring (for classes who don't have Nightblade shade or Sorcerer streak). I'm just not a fan of the "hit this specific number for damage or get out" design because then it just reduces build and game play options.

Skullstachio · January 2021

Ruling out a possibility, could it be possible to use the Psijic Ultimate “Undo“ to bypass the Ring DPS check? By going back 4 seconds and reverting to a previous position, it could potentially work if ultimate upkeep is better than the interval between rings.

If it does work, it may not help tanks complete vet speedruns in Vet vateshran, but staying alive is another thing.

GrumpyDuckling · January 2021

Skullstachio wrote: »

Ruling out a possibility, could it be possible to use the Psijic Ultimate “Undo“ to bypass the Ring DPS check? By going back 4 seconds and reverting to a previous position, it could potentially work if ultimate upkeep is better than the interval between rings.

If it does work, it may not help tanks complete vet speedruns in Vet vateshran, but staying alive is another thing.

Awesome, good thinking. This could give all classes a version of circumventing the DPS check. You're right about ultimate upkeep -- it would likely be a close call due to the cost, but on most builds the ultimate should restore fast enough to deal with each ring phase.