Gold mats are too liquid of a commodity to give big discounts for bulk orders

idk · January 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I do expect chat trades and high qty to be slightly cheaper than guild stores. For one thing the prices you see listed in guild stores are ones that are not selling because they are overpriced. The good deals are typically not shown because they sold quickly, and often even the “fair” prices are gone if the item is in high demand.

In addition to this, selling by private trade saves the guild trader fees, which should be reflected the price. It also saves the seller one of their limited guild trader listings, which may mean they need fewer trade guilds that can also bring additional dues and obligations.

Obviously people offering half the value is a scam, but 10-20% lower than what you see in guild stores seems pretty reasonable IMO.

This would be fair for like common motifs and things (maybe pots).

But gold mats are like the iphones and PS5s of ESO. They don't take long to sell, and the prices are usually good.

It would be fair for anything to be sold for a small ammount less than what one would pay in the guild stores.

The person legitimately looking at selling something this way is looking for a quick trade and to save the percentage paid to the guild and the game. As such, they can make more by selling for less and faster than selling via a guild trader.

idk · January 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t see why a buyer would ever pay the same price in zone chat they could get in any guild trader. No reason to go through the effort of traveling around and finding sellers just so the seller can make extra gold and avoid guild fees.

Say you want to sell Temps at 5k on the traders. They're doing good and thats the low price and they'll sell fast.

You'll get 92% of that price (pay 1% and get 93% back.) 92% of 5k is 4600 gold.

Someone asks for bulk in guild chat for 80% of that (4k) for 100. Is 60k loss "fast cash" enough to waste all your reserves, assuming that the price might go up or down in the future? Who's taking all the risk here?

Who is taking the risk is not important. It is a choice the buyer and seller make and not something we should be concerned with.

PizzaCat82 · January 2021

idk wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t see why a buyer would ever pay the same price in zone chat they could get in any guild trader. No reason to go through the effort of traveling around and finding sellers just so the seller can make extra gold and avoid guild fees.

Say you want to sell Temps at 5k on the traders. They're doing good and thats the low price and they'll sell fast.

You'll get 92% of that price (pay 1% and get 93% back.) 92% of 5k is 4600 gold.

Someone asks for bulk in guild chat for 80% of that (4k) for 100. Is 60k loss "fast cash" enough to waste all your reserves, assuming that the price might go up or down in the future? Who's taking all the risk here?

Who is taking the risk is not important. It is a choice the buyer and seller make and not something we should be concerned with.

But we are players, and many of us are traders, I am not looking for a dev or game solution but rather speaking to the people in the forums to see if there was an explanation that made sense for me as a seller, or to see if the practice is common enough that I might be too harsh in my dealings.

So far I have not found one. So yes, I can and do chose to simply not sell.

redlink1979 · January 2021

@PizzaCat82 These low balling offers on zone chat are always targetting new players and players unaware of the prices.
Happens on every platform, on every server.
Flipping items is a thing.

Bucky_13 · January 2021

RedMuse wrote: »

You're leaving one option out: Ripoff. That's what it is to me, a blatant attempt to take advantage of other players possible ignorance. It must work for them too or they wouldn't keep doing it.

Pretty much this, if you see someone wanting to buy those kinds of mats in zone chat, it's probably a good idea to not sell to them. Unless you can trick them by setting the price per item to market value. Which I'm getting more and more tempted to do, not sure if it's against the TOS to rip off the rip-offs tho. Generally, the prices they're offering is less than what you ear from selling it at a trader despite the taxes from that one. In the case of Dreugh Wax, I did a check on one of them and realized I'd earn around 25% more gold from the trader.

Bucky_13 · January 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t see why a buyer would ever pay the same price in zone chat they could get in any guild trader. No reason to go through the effort of traveling around and finding sellers just so the seller can make extra gold and avoid guild fees.

Say you want to sell Temps at 5k on the traders. They're doing good and thats the low price and they'll sell fast.

You'll get 92% of that price (pay 1% and get 93% back.) 92% of 5k is 4600 gold.

Someone asks for bulk in guild chat for 80% of that (4k) for 100. Is 60k loss "fast cash" enough to waste all your reserves, assuming that the price might go up or down in the future? Who's taking all the risk here?

That's not the margins they're offering though. It's more a case of Temps are worth 5k, they offer 3k. And it's an item that sells fast at 5k at most traders, which means there's no risk involved unless you price it way higher. When I say fast, I mean usually in less than 3 hours.

Also, for some mats, (not gold mats however) you can demand a higher price in bulk rather than smaller quantities. Mostly mats you can burn through fast, or mats that you don't buy that often but want to have a supply on. In those cases I'd gladly pay a bit more so I don't have to open a ton of mails.

PizzaCat82 · January 2021

Bucky_13 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t see why a buyer would ever pay the same price in zone chat they could get in any guild trader. No reason to go through the effort of traveling around and finding sellers just so the seller can make extra gold and avoid guild fees.

Say you want to sell Temps at 5k on the traders. They're doing good and thats the low price and they'll sell fast.

You'll get 92% of that price (pay 1% and get 93% back.) 92% of 5k is 4600 gold.

Someone asks for bulk in guild chat for 80% of that (4k) for 100. Is 60k loss "fast cash" enough to waste all your reserves, assuming that the price might go up or down in the future? Who's taking all the risk here?

That's not the margins they're offering though. It's more a case of Temps are worth 5k, they offer 3k. And it's an item that sells fast at 5k at most traders, which means there's no risk involved unless you price it way higher. When I say fast, I mean usually in less than 3 hours.

Also, for some mats, (not gold mats however) you can demand a higher price in bulk rather than smaller quantities. Mostly mats you can burn through fast, or mats that you don't buy that often but want to have a supply on. In those cases I'd gladly pay a bit more so I don't have to open a ton of mails.

Those are chat spammers, this post isn't about them.

I do hate them but I get their mindset.I don't get the bulk order people. Like clearing out my inventory below cost is supposed to be good for me. (they only ask for large amounts 100+)

WrathOfInnos · January 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t see why a buyer would ever pay the same price in zone chat they could get in any guild trader. No reason to go through the effort of traveling around and finding sellers just so the seller can make extra gold and avoid guild fees.

Say you want to sell Temps at 5k on the traders. They're doing good and thats the low price and they'll sell fast.

You'll get 92% of that price (pay 1% and get 93% back.) 92% of 5k is 4600 gold.

Someone asks for bulk in guild chat for 80% of that (4k) for 100. Is 60k loss "fast cash" enough to waste all your reserves, assuming that the price might go up or down in the future? Who's taking all the risk here?

I see your point, but let me give an example I’m more familiar with. I was buying a decent amount of Dreugh Wax recently, maybe around 100 total to gold out some sets from stickerbook.

TTC and MM showed most guild store sales were around 10k each. Everything left in guild stores was 11-12k, most had been sitting there for several days because it was above market price. As a buyer I could overpay at any guild store and get it for 11k, or try to get ~20% discount and ask in zone chat for 9k. Keep in mind any seller that decides to do the 9k price still makes almost the same profit as those that just sold for 10k in guild stores after fees, with less effort. Seems fair to me.

Now if any of those sellers gave a counteroffer of 10k each that would also be fair enough IMO. It’s not like many guild stores have that price in stock, and I don’t feel like wayshrining all over the world to get it. In that case the seller makes a full 10k, almost what they’d make selling it for 11k in a guild store. I still get it for ~10% less than I would in the 6 guild stores I’m standing next to and all is good.

The point I’m making is that I would never pay 11k to a seller in zone chat, despite being the same price as what’s available in the guild stores. It’s above market price, and they’d make the full profit without any guild fees. If they’re unwilling to split that savings with me then I’ll find someone else to do business with. Or at that point it’s easier to just clean out guild stores of their slightly overpriced listings.

bmnoble · January 2021

I just ignore those people, only time I sell in zone instead of in my of my trade guilds is if the buyer is paying more than what I would normally sell for and even then only an in person trade never COD on high value stuff unless you know the person.

They have to make their buying price public as well, I don't care for his WTB any amount PM for prices crap, you either say your intended price in zone chat or I just don't worry about your message and move on with my day.

If your price is crap I move on with my day, because I am not an idiot who does not know the value of what I have to sell, if your price is good, then and only then do I follow up with the person.

Someone recently in Alinor was offering 6K a piece for Clam gall and Mother of Pearl, I had a stack of Clam gall and 2 stacks of Mother of Pearl, a nice 3.6 million for something that was just sitting in my craft bag.

Someone else was offering 185 gold a piece for Pitch normally going for 120 - 160 on traders, I sold them 1200 half my stockpile via COD including the postage fee that was a little over 17000, 239K or so all up, they paid without issue.

The only discounts I offer is that I usually set my prices to the lower end of the TTC average on guild traders that is the most your going to get me to budge on most stuff.

bluebird · January 2021

Eedat wrote: »

Totally agree that prices are out of control right now.
But gifting has little to do with it imo. Gifting has been around for over 2 years.

It's the trade guilds that have always had the most money, and they still keep hoovering up mats at cheap prices only to relist minutes later for double the price. The appearance of Reconstruction and the sudden attractiveness of mats (plus spikes in seasonal items like Heartwood because everyone wanted it) has caused serious ripple effects across the economy.

I would say it's the obvious reason of the sticker book skyrocketing demand and not some crazy conspiracy that entire trade guilds band together to buy up all the mats to drive up prices. Guilds don't set prices, individuals do.

I did mention Reconstruction as a driving factor for demand. But it's a well known fact that popular Trade guilds in Mournhold and Belkarth are profiteering multi-million gold businesses. I used to be part of them, so I do know it works.

The popularity of a few trading guild spots and the frequent listing updates and high volume of item turnover makes it possible - if someone tried to jack up prices in a guild that's based on Greenheart, it wouldn't work. But several people in these hotspots can afford to buy up any mats they find and relist them for much higher, and due to the visibility the prices set in these large trade guilds impacts the market more than lower prices set elsewhere. People have tons of gold reserves to buy things with the intention to resell and manipulate the market to an extent where we often find monopolies. By the time I would find a TTC listing of Tempered Brass in other guilds, they are already gone and within an hour miraculously appear in stacks listed by the same person.

So it doesn't take a grand conspiracy, a few people are already enough to create shortages and a markup. Flipping often happens with normal-ish priced items too, so of course the zone-chat bulk-buyers are often similar profiteering people, and OP is best to avoid them.

The type is usually transparent - when I got a recipe that usually sells for 2.5-3mil (but has no MM suggestion due to how few of them there are), I was offered 100k for it by a guy who 100% knew what they were doing as he's an officer is one of my Mournhold guilds. So yeah, the type is usually best ignored.