Gold mats are too liquid of a commodity to give big discounts for bulk orders

PizzaCat82

I keep seeing messages in chat or in trade groups wanting super large orders of rosin/wax/temps/platings/kuta for below even the lowest trader prices.

Now, I know part of this is just haggling and wanting to make a profit. But as someone with stacks of gold mats I don't get whats in it for me.

Money? I can sell singles or small bundles of these mats on the trader and sell almost within 20 - 30 minutes and I don't have to do anything. No one with 100s of gold mats should be needing hundreds of thousands of gold "RIGHT NOW" like some virtual bookie is going to break their legs.

Space? Anyone who has large amounts of gold mats has a crafting bag. The ones that dont probably don't have large amounts of gold mats. There's never been a space issue.

Laziness? It would be odd to be not lazy enough to collect 100s of gold mats but lazy enough not to want to list them on the trader for a decent profit. Hell it'd be more work to send them in the mail honestly.

ESO isn't like real life and bulk orders don't make sense for sellers. If you want to clear out my inventory you're going to have to give me MORE money, not less.

chess1ukb16_ESO

Its just players, often but not exclusively part of a Trade Guild management team, who have a large amount of gold and want to buy items that give huge overall sales because of the high demand in places like Mournhold (for their trade guild) and a tidy profit

RedMuse

You're leaving one option out: Ripoff. That's what it is to me, a blatant attempt to take advantage of other players possible ignorance. It must work for them too or they wouldn't keep doing it.

Eedat

I think what you mean is that it's not worth it for you to do bulk sales. There are also varying shades of bulk buyers as well. Some offer under half price which is ridiculous and others offer a more reasonable 80%. You're losing 7% to the trader anyway and having someone with cash in hand to buy all your stuff in one go is worth the 13% to some people

Either way there is absolutely nothing forcing you to sell to them so if you don't like the price, simply don't sell to them. It's literally that easy. Avoid the 50% resellers and find an 80% one if you prefer the convenience.

NeillMcAttack

I can tell you that I will often pay a little over the average if it means I can buy a stack, which reduces my time spent shopping around.

Those guys announcing in voice chat prices of goods they are WTB are really just trying to either scam new players, or entice people without a trader to make some relatively fast gold. It likely works well though as they are so common.

Right now the market is absolutely brutal. Sacrificed to the gods of the gifting economy. It was only a matter of time before the ZOS sponsored ‘cash for gold’ system started to have this effect, that has many new potential players calling it pay to win. But who cares, 7.5 billion says mission accomplished.

ThePedge

Depends on the price, I've only ever asked one person who was a hoarder from a social guild, but they would sell me bulk for lower than trader price but not much lower.

They got the same if not more as guild fees/tax wasn't paid, and I paid less.

Win-Win.

He didn't need the money so didn't need to bother listing, people came to him.
Although it got too frequent and he's now market price or above, which is understandable.

PizzaCat82

I just want to clarify that this isn't the obvious chat spammers that prey on the ignorant with super low prices and want any amount.

These are people who specifically want large 100+ orders and apparently they're doing you a favor by buying them all.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

It's pretty safe to say that whenever you see someone posting in zone that they want to buy things in mass, or COD them unlimited amounts of mats for X price, that X price is a bad deal for the seller and a good deal for the buyer.

phileunderx2

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

bluebird

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I can tell you that I will often pay a little over the average if it means I can buy a stack, which reduces my time spent shopping around.

Those guys announcing in voice chat prices of goods they are WTB are really just trying to either scam new players, or entice people without a trader to make some relatively fast gold. It likely works well though as they are so common.

Right now the market is absolutely brutal. Sacrificed to the gods of the gifting economy. It was only a matter of time before the ZOS sponsored ‘cash for gold’ system started to have this effect, that has many new potential players calling it pay to win. But who cares, 7.5 billion says mission accomplished.

Totally agree that prices are out of control right now.
But gifting has little to do with it imo. Gifting has been around for over 2 years.

It's the trade guilds that have always had the most money, and they still keep hoovering up mats at cheap prices only to relist minutes later for double the price. The appearance of Reconstruction and the sudden attractiveness of mats (plus spikes in seasonal items like Heartwood because everyone wanted it) has caused serious ripple effects across the economy.

Starlock

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I just want to clarify that this isn't the obvious chat spammers that prey on the ignorant with super low prices and want any amount.

These are people who specifically want large 100+ orders and apparently they're doing you a favor by buying them all.

I've never seen this.

I've only ever seen the obvious scammers/flippers/ripoff jerks who land on my ignore list faster than you can say cash shop.

Eedat

Totally agree that prices are out of control right now.
But gifting has little to do with it imo. Gifting has been around for over 2 years.

It's the trade guilds that have always had the most money, and they still keep hoovering up mats at cheap prices only to relist minutes later for double the price. The appearance of Reconstruction and the sudden attractiveness of mats (plus spikes in seasonal items like Heartwood because everyone wanted it) has caused serious ripple effects across the economy.

I would say it's the obvious reason of the sticker book skyrocketing demand and not some crazy conspiracy that entire trade guilds band together to buy up all the mats to drive up prices. Guilds don't set prices, individuals do.

From the look of it, prices have finally plateau'd and should eventually start sinking down

idk

If it were players offering to sell large amounts of gold upgrade matts for notably lower amounts than what they trade for then I would suspect there is something for Zos to look at. A player seeking to purchase a large ammount of these mats for a low price does not seem like an issue.

Of course, anyone directly trading with another player should beware. No one can tell if someone else is trying to scam others until and unless the trade is complete.

redspecter23

For many items, I'd be inclined to pay more for full stacks. It saves me the trouble of running around. If I'm selling the types of liquid items described here, I don't think I'd offer much of a discount other than standard variance of a few %. There really isn't a point in selling gold mats in bulk at a discount when you can just get full standard price anyway. Things seem to keep climbing steadily so even if I think the price is fine right now, it might be 10% higher in a week.

xaraan

It's just a bargaining excuse. Price is about supply and demand no matter what quantity you buy in. If you have the supply to sell in bulk slightly cheaper and save yourself the labor of individual listings, time, orders, whatever, then go for it, but by and large OP is right that there is not really a resupply behind your stock to meet a consistent lowering of prices for bulk orders and it's smarter to just sell them in smaller amounts at higher prices if someone doesn't way to pay for a big order.

The only thing that bugs me is when you see the same person selling singles or doubles of something, but then they have a stack listed at a higher price. Like, the opposite is also true, why would I pay considerably more for buying a stack from you with one click vs. 10 clicks.

Taleof2Cities

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

^This.^

I've found the best medicine for "zone chat flippers" are the following easy steps:

1. Link the MM or TTC price in zone chat immediately following their price undercut spam.

2. Repeat the MM or TTC link as a personal whisper to the flipper player ... telling them zone chat has been notified of the going price and there's no need to reply. A follow-up whisper is needed since quite often the player has already changed zones to repeat their spamming.

3. Quite often you'll get an abrasive reply ... to which you say: "What part of 'no need to reply' did you not understand?"

4. (optional) Add the flipper to your Ignore List.

Eedat

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

^This.^

I've found the best medicine for "zone chat flippers" are the following easy steps:

1. Link the MM or TTC price in zone chat immediately following their price undercut spam.

2. Repeat the MM or TTC link as a personal whisper to the flipper player ... telling them zone chat has been notified of the going price and there's no need to reply. A follow-up whisper is needed since quite often the player has already changed zones to repeat their spamming.

3. Quite often you'll get an abrasive reply ... to which you say: "What part of 'no need to reply' did you not understand?"

4. (optional) Add the flipper to your Ignore List.

They are targeting people with bulk mats to sell meaning they are targeting the people who know what they've got the most. No need to actually harass people because you don't like a price they offer lol

[Edit to remove bait]

redspecter23

Eedat wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

^This.^

I've found the best medicine for "zone chat flippers" are the following easy steps:

1. Link the MM or TTC price in zone chat immediately following their price undercut spam.

2. Repeat the MM or TTC link as a personal whisper to the flipper player ... telling them zone chat has been notified of the going price and there's no need to reply. A follow-up whisper is needed since quite often the player has already changed zones to repeat their spamming.

3. Quite often you'll get an abrasive reply ... to which you say: "What part of 'no need to reply' did you not understand?"

4. (optional) Add the flipper to your Ignore List.

They are targeting people with bulk mats to sell meaning they are targeting the people who know what they've got the most. No need to actually harass people because you don't like a price they offer lol

I disagree. Anyone offering extreme lowball prices is someone I will call out in zone every time. I appreciate this community and I hate to see people taken advantage of. We're not talking about 10% discount. It's the ones offering 50% less or something crazy like that. They can go away any time.

Eedat

redspecter23 wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

^This.^

I've found the best medicine for "zone chat flippers" are the following easy steps:

1. Link the MM or TTC price in zone chat immediately following their price undercut spam.

2. Repeat the MM or TTC link as a personal whisper to the flipper player ... telling them zone chat has been notified of the going price and there's no need to reply. A follow-up whisper is needed since quite often the player has already changed zones to repeat their spamming.

3. Quite often you'll get an abrasive reply ... to which you say: "What part of 'no need to reply' did you not understand?"

4. (optional) Add the flipper to your Ignore List.

They are targeting people with bulk mats to sell meaning they are targeting the people who know what they've got the most. No need to actually harass people because you don't like a price they offer lol

I disagree. Anyone offering extreme lowball prices is someone I will call out in zone every time. I appreciate this community and I hate to see people taken advantage of. We're not talking about 10% discount. It's the ones offering 50% less or something crazy like that. They can go away any time.

Giving average prices is one thing. Spamming the person with PMs while obviously trying to pick a fight is harassment.

Also I agree with the second part. There is a difference between someone offering 40% and someone offering 80%

the1andonlyskwex

Eedat wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

^This.^

I've found the best medicine for "zone chat flippers" are the following easy steps:

1. Link the MM or TTC price in zone chat immediately following their price undercut spam.

2. Repeat the MM or TTC link as a personal whisper to the flipper player ... telling them zone chat has been notified of the going price and there's no need to reply. A follow-up whisper is needed since quite often the player has already changed zones to repeat their spamming.

3. Quite often you'll get an abrasive reply ... to which you say: "What part of 'no need to reply' did you not understand?"

4. (optional) Add the flipper to your Ignore List.

Calm down there Karen. They are targeting people with bulk mats to sell meaning they are targeting the people who know what they've got the most. No need to actually harass people because you don't like a price they offer lol

I don't think that's true at all. They are targeting people who have accumulated mats over a long time of not really paying attention to what they have, who suddenly notice they're sitting on a treasure trove. The price is set high enough to get a long-term casual player to check to see what they have, but low enough to be an obvious ripoff to anyone actually following the market.

I don't really agree with the suggestion to harass the seller in whispers, but posting the market price in zone chat is absolutely worth doing if you see someone trying to pull this scam.

Eedat

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

^This.^

I've found the best medicine for "zone chat flippers" are the following easy steps:

1. Link the MM or TTC price in zone chat immediately following their price undercut spam.

2. Repeat the MM or TTC link as a personal whisper to the flipper player ... telling them zone chat has been notified of the going price and there's no need to reply. A follow-up whisper is needed since quite often the player has already changed zones to repeat their spamming.

3. Quite often you'll get an abrasive reply ... to which you say: "What part of 'no need to reply' did you not understand?"

4. (optional) Add the flipper to your Ignore List.

They are targeting people with bulk mats to sell meaning they are targeting the people who know what they've got the most. No need to actually harass people because you don't like a price they offer lol

I don't think that's true at all. They are targeting people who have accumulated mats over a long time of not really paying attention to what they have, who suddenly notice they're sitting on a treasure trove. The price is set high enough to get a long-term casual player to check to see what they have, but low enough to be an obvious ripoff to anyone actually following the market.

I don't really agree with the suggestion to harass the seller in whispers, but posting the market price in zone chat is absolutely worth doing if you see someone trying to pull this scam.

That's kinda the distinction I made in the next comment. Harassing someone is not OK but calling out prices is fine depending on how low they're actually offering.

I'm going to hard disagree with the first point though. I think people with large amounts of mats will by far be the most aware of what they have.

I'm also going to hard disagree with you calling it a scam. "Buying these exact items for these exact prices" is most certainly not a scam. A scam would be trying to slip a chromium grain in the trade window when they're paying you for a full plating.

idk

redspecter23 wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

^This.^

I've found the best medicine for "zone chat flippers" are the following easy steps:

1. Link the MM or TTC price in zone chat immediately following their price undercut spam.

2. Repeat the MM or TTC link as a personal whisper to the flipper player ... telling them zone chat has been notified of the going price and there's no need to reply. A follow-up whisper is needed since quite often the player has already changed zones to repeat their spamming.

3. Quite often you'll get an abrasive reply ... to which you say: "What part of 'no need to reply' did you not understand?"

4. (optional) Add the flipper to your Ignore List.

Calm down there Karen. They are targeting people with bulk mats to sell meaning they are targeting the people who know what they've got the most. No need to actually harass people because you don't like a price they offer lol

I disagree. Anyone offering extreme lowball prices is someone I will call out in zone every time. I appreciate this community and I hate to see people taken advantage of. We're not talking about 10% discount. It's the ones offering 50% less or something crazy like that. They can go away any time.

If they are offering gold upgrade matts at 50% of the going rate then I would suggest reporting them to Zos, They may have found a dup glitch. Only Zos can make that determination and it should be looked into quickly. We have seen a player note suspicious trades before and Zos acknowledged they took action. Someone reported the gold sellers were not happy with that player based on social media but I have no idea how they would see their social media posts.

Edit: Not arguing with you. Just noting it is worthy of taking to the next level.

Scardan

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

^This.^

I've found the best medicine for "zone chat flippers" are the following easy steps:

1. Link the MM or TTC price in zone chat immediately following their price undercut spam.

2. Repeat the MM or TTC link as a personal whisper to the flipper player ... telling them zone chat has been notified of the going price and there's no need to reply. A follow-up whisper is needed since quite often the player has already changed zones to repeat their spamming.

3. Quite often you'll get an abrasive reply ... to which you say: "What part of 'no need to reply' did you not understand?"

4. (optional) Add the flipper to your Ignore List.

I would not even respond to abrasive answers.

Khajiitihaswares

RedMuse wrote: »

You're leaving one option out: Ripoff. That's what it is to me, a blatant attempt to take advantage of other players possible ignorance. It must work for them too or they wouldn't keep doing it.

Pretty much. It is mostly trade guilds management trying scoop extra stuff make more profit and be able hold onto their traders. I know of a few from some trade guilds that do this. Smart idea at the end of the day because you will get people that do not know better.

Doesn't mean I agree with it but each to their own.

WrathOfInnos

I do expect chat trades and high qty to be slightly cheaper than guild stores. For one thing the prices you see listed in guild stores are ones that are not selling because they are overpriced. The good deals are typically not shown because they sold quickly, and often even the “fair” prices are gone if the item is in high demand.

In addition to this, selling by private trade saves the guild trader fees, which should be reflected the price. It also saves the seller one of their limited guild trader listings, which may mean they need fewer trade guilds that can also bring additional dues and obligations.

Obviously people offering half the value is a scam, but 10-20% lower than what you see in guild stores seems pretty reasonable IMO.

PizzaCat82

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I do expect chat trades and high qty to be slightly cheaper than guild stores. For one thing the prices you see listed in guild stores are ones that are not selling because they are overpriced. The good deals are typically not shown because they sold quickly, and often even the “fair” prices are gone if the item is in high demand.

In addition to this, selling by private trade saves the guild trader fees, which should be reflected the price. It also saves the seller one of their limited guild trader listings, which may mean they need fewer trade guilds that can also bring additional dues and obligations.

Obviously people offering half the value is a scam, but 10-20% lower than what you see in guild stores seems pretty reasonable IMO.

This would be fair for like common motifs and things (maybe pots).

But gold mats are like the iphones and PS5s of ESO. They don't take long to sell, and the prices are usually good.

WrathOfInnos

I don’t see why a buyer would ever pay the same price in zone chat they could get in any guild trader. No reason to go through the effort of traveling around and finding sellers just so the seller can make extra gold and avoid guild fees.

spartaxoxo

Sometimes you just want some fast cash and those people are offering it. That's basically what it usually comes down too. Someone wants some fast cash or doesn't have a trader and wants a convenient buyer even at a price they know is lower than average. I'm sure new players fall for it too, but I imagine most know what they are getting into

Taleof2Cities

Eedat wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

^This.^

I've found the best medicine for "zone chat flippers" are the following easy steps:

1. Link the MM or TTC price in zone chat immediately following their price undercut spam.

2. Repeat the MM or TTC link as a personal whisper to the flipper player ... telling them zone chat has been notified of the going price and there's no need to reply. A follow-up whisper is needed since quite often the player has already changed zones to repeat their spamming.

3. Quite often you'll get an abrasive reply ... to which you say: "What part of 'no need to reply' did you not understand?"

4. (optional) Add the flipper to your Ignore List.

They are targeting people with bulk mats to sell meaning they are targeting the people who know what they've got the most. No need to actually harass people because you don't like a price they offer lol

[Edit to remove bait]

Sharing an MM or TTC price in zone chat or in a whisper isn’t harassment, @Eedat.

What Terms of Service are you looking at that includes a specific provision for market price add-ons?

PizzaCat82

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t see why a buyer would ever pay the same price in zone chat they could get in any guild trader. No reason to go through the effort of traveling around and finding sellers just so the seller can make extra gold and avoid guild fees.

Say you want to sell Temps at 5k on the traders. They're doing good and thats the low price and they'll sell fast.

You'll get 92% of that price (pay 1% and get 93% back.) 92% of 5k is 4600 gold.

Someone asks for bulk in guild chat for 80% of that (4k) for 100. Is 60k loss "fast cash" enough to waste all your reserves, assuming that the price might go up or down in the future? Who's taking all the risk here?

Jaimeh

phileunderx2 wrote: »

They are flippers. They make the offer to appeal to the player who does not have a trading guild.

This. They're not aimed at people with stacks of golden mats, because, like OP said, those don't need the gold. They are aimed at (and take advantage of) new or casual players who don't know the market prices, or need to make some gold fast. Then the flipper will go and sell these and make a profit. Sometimes the prices they ask for are ridiculously low, and they seem to always add heart emojis, and flowery thanks you's at the end of their zone chat spam, I guess to look like they are doing this out of the kindness of their own hearts. I don't use any trading addons, but when I see these messages it's the only times I wish I used them, so I could post the actual price trends.