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• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
· PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Of all things/ideas in ESO universe you are releasing old Sykrim or Oblivion content
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was happy with the MW revisit. I'll be happy with the Oblivion one too (unless it's really going to be in Black Marsh - I have zero use for argonians). I wasn't happy with Greymoor, but The Reach is nice. Antiquities is great!2 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've been happy with all of the revisits, especially since they weren't simply retreads of the one-player games. I'd love to see the entire map of Tamriel get filled in, but I'm not sure whether that will ever happen.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!2 -
Aptonoth✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I was happy with the MW revisit. I'll be happy with the Oblivion one too (unless it's really going to be in Black Marsh - I have zero use for argonians). I wasn't happy with Greymoor, but The Reach is nice. Antiquities is great!
I suspect a lot of the Argonians are hints to the follow up chapter of 2022. We will see the first hints dropped in the dungeon dlc story. I forget which of the two dungeons of this year it was (one of the first) but it referenced the Imperial library and I knew 2021 would be Cyrodil. With references to Gideon and lots of Argonian stuff in the trailer I think the hints black marsh 2022. However I could be very wrong and they are giving us all this to tide over BM/Argonian fans to get us to shut up until after both Cyrodil and Hammer chapters.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, for those of you who love them, I hope it turns out that way. I'm happy playing "old content" (as I did during Greymoor), so my feelings won't be hurt!0 -
Grizzbeorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »Wait, that updated map shows Elsweyr as "Purchase Only Not in ESO Plus." I thought it had been demoted to a normal DLC months ago?
It was. You are right; the map legend is wrong.
It was bumped down to DLC when Greymoor was released in May.0 -
graybeardII✭✭✭Well I never played eather of those games so it will all be new to me. well I played a few days of oblivion before I got eso. Got tired of being turend to a vampire all the time so I switched lol0
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Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »
LoL, I would love to see Black Marsh and expand on the current lore but that's just what I see people saying.
2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭We do realize that people will abbreviate "Gates of Oblivion" to GO or GoO right?
ESO: Go
ESO: Goo0 -
brimstone74✭✭✭Guild Wars did the same thing with Elona and Cantha. I find it SUPER boring here and there.It's Mundumental!0 -
Blue_Radium✭✭✭Rehashing the single-player Oblivion would be overhauling Cyrodiil and making it a partial PvE zone, somehow. We aren't revisiting iconic TES: Oblivion locations. A mainline game being called Oblivion doesn't make ESO content set in Oblivion recycled nostalgia bait.1 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »Different continent or planet? Well, that's not going to happen. Like someone else said... Yokuda is underwater, Atmora still has Atmorans on it (since Tiber hasn't migrated yet) but it is largely frozen over, Aldmeris is gone, and it sounds like Bethesda doesn't want Akavir released or touched at all so I doubt they would give ESO the green light. As for traveling in space... how can we justify that in the second era? Yeah... no.
The only thing I could see traveling to someday is that Sea Elf island but it's probably not very big. We only have so many areas left and honestly, from the sounds of the forums whining, it wouldn't matter when this idea would be released. It could be 2030 and the last ESO content and people would moan "really? Dagon and Oblivion rehash"... get over it... there are only so many big bads... some are bounds to repeat in Elder Scrolls games. They could have gone with another Daedric Prince I guess but Dagon is the most destructive out of the ones left not used in big DLC's... kind of makes sense he wouldn't just sit around and do nothing while Tamriel/Nirn is "weak".
As for lands, well, we don't have a ton left. Here's what I saw on the ESO game map: (not counting Daedric Planes)
1. Whiterun, The Pale and Winterhold left in Skyrim
2. Far east part of Morrowind (Necrom area), Blacklight part as well
3. A lot of Black Marsh
4. Area in between Gold coast Cyrodiil and pvp land, area between pvp and Black Marsh
5. Some part of land in between North and South Elsweyr
6. A good chunk of Hammerfell.
7. Solstheim
So you see it would be dumb to avoid an area that would spark conversations like this because you can do it with probably any of them...
1. Whiterun or any part of remaining Skyrim... return to Skyrim game
2. Morrowind parts remaining... return to Morrowind, even if these parts weren't in it
3. Black Marsh... boring argonians
4. any part of Cyrodiil... return to Oblivion
5. Part of Elsweyr that is left is small so, probably won't do done or it'll be tied to another land
6. any part of Hammerfell... leaning on TES 6 desire
7. Solstheim... return to Skyrim.
Dev's have said many many times they want to do the entire continent and even hinted Pyandinea is the first place they want to go after continent is done. Its only a guessing game the order it will all be in. We know they are currently doing expansions for provinces that have no expansion left or are not base game. So Cyrodil is next then its either blackmarsh or hammerfell. Then once the other one is done we will start going back to filling in areas that need stuff. Also they did say that stuff like Blackreach and other weird stuff could be done as well but will be its entire DLC as they had people who couldn't find blackreach (somehow?!?!) in western skyrim. Let's look at what's left.
In no particular order. 2 cyrodil year expansions, 2 black marsh years, 1 more skyrim, 2 morrowind expansions (I expect solsthiem will be in a morrowind year), 1 wood elf (falinesti), 1 wrothgar/reach one, 2 hammerfell years, and 1 khajit year. So that is easily a minimum of 12 years of continent and some of these will likely come in mixed years I expect the central Elsy year to have a deadric relam with it obviously or some sort of weird zone for dlc. On top of that fans are interested already in going back to black reach and clockwork city one last time before we have a big grand hurrah and set sail for Pyondinea.
Oh that is just one of the worst excuses they ever made, one you had to go to Blackreach in both the Chapter and the Reach Dlc. It was not optional, those that didn't know about it aka didn't do the storyline or the content they made. Rich Lambert really has to come up with better excuses for not doing something. It was not just some optional thing as it was in Skyrim. It was a main storyline requirement in this years storyline. My guess the real reason is how they did that zone within the same zone. I'm guessing there were issues with programing that in. My guess is they don't want to do programing like that in the same zone again.Edited by Thevampirenight on December 29, 2020 9:04AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When a developer who owns an IP allows another developer to work on a spin-off (in this case, Bethesda Softworks granting license to Zenimax Media use the Elder Scrolls IP to make an MMO), it isn't uncommon to see certain ideas be "off limits" because the developer who owns the IP wants to use those ideas for their flagship title. Utilizing inspiration from previous releases is more likely to get an OK than anything that intersects with the next big Elder Scrolls project. Granted, this may or may not be happening here, but it is something to keep in mind as a possibility.
Personally, I don't have a problem if they want to do something loosely related to Oblivion, especially if one of the zone maps is a plane of oblivion. The fact that we haven't had a content expansion where a plane of oblivion is a significant, explorable zone is really quite odd. The only thing that came close to that since the base game is Clockwork City, which is a fantastic piece of work for how unique and distinct it is. It's time for a zone of oblivion to be an explorable zone. Past time. Whether that's the Deadlands or something else doesn't much matter to me.
Just a quick correction, Zenimax Media IS Bethesda, the company was founded by Bethesda back in the day, Zenimax Online Studios and Bethesda Softworks are both under Zenimax Media.0 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »Different continent or planet? Well, that's not going to happen. Like someone else said... Yokuda is underwater, Atmora still has Atmorans on it (since Tiber hasn't migrated yet) but it is largely frozen over, Aldmeris is gone, and it sounds like Bethesda doesn't want Akavir released or touched at all so I doubt they would give ESO the green light. As for traveling in space... how can we justify that in the second era? Yeah... no.
The only thing I could see traveling to someday is that Sea Elf island but it's probably not very big. We only have so many areas left and honestly, from the sounds of the forums whining, it wouldn't matter when this idea would be released. It could be 2030 and the last ESO content and people would moan "really? Dagon and Oblivion rehash"... get over it... there are only so many big bads... some are bounds to repeat in Elder Scrolls games. They could have gone with another Daedric Prince I guess but Dagon is the most destructive out of the ones left not used in big DLC's... kind of makes sense he wouldn't just sit around and do nothing while Tamriel/Nirn is "weak".
As for lands, well, we don't have a ton left. Here's what I saw on the ESO game map: (not counting Daedric Planes)
1. Whiterun, The Pale and Winterhold left in Skyrim
2. Far east part of Morrowind (Necrom area), Blacklight part as well
3. A lot of Black Marsh
4. Area in between Gold coast Cyrodiil and pvp land, area between pvp and Black Marsh
5. Some part of land in between North and South Elsweyr
6. A good chunk of Hammerfell.
7. Solstheim
So you see it would be dumb to avoid an area that would spark conversations like this because you can do it with probably any of them...
1. Whiterun or any part of remaining Skyrim... return to Skyrim game
2. Morrowind parts remaining... return to Morrowind, even if these parts weren't in it
3. Black Marsh... boring argonians
4. any part of Cyrodiil... return to Oblivion
5. Part of Elsweyr that is left is small so, probably won't do done or it'll be tied to another land
6. any part of Hammerfell... leaning on TES 6 desire
7. Solstheim... return to Skyrim.
Dev's have said many many times they want to do the entire continent and even hinted Pyandinea is the first place they want to go after continent is done. Its only a guessing game the order it will all be in. We know they are currently doing expansions for provinces that have no expansion left or are not base game. So Cyrodil is next then its either blackmarsh or hammerfell. Then once the other one is done we will start going back to filling in areas that need stuff. Also they did say that stuff like Blackreach and other weird stuff could be done as well but will be its entire DLC as they had people who couldn't find blackreach (somehow?!?!) in western skyrim. Let's look at what's left.
In no particular order. 2 cyrodil year expansions, 2 black marsh years, 1 more skyrim, 2 morrowind expansions (I expect solsthiem will be in a morrowind year), 1 wood elf (falinesti), 1 wrothgar/reach one, 2 hammerfell years, and 1 khajit year. So that is easily a minimum of 12 years of continent and some of these will likely come in mixed years I expect the central Elsy year to have a deadric relam with it obviously or some sort of weird zone for dlc. On top of that fans are interested already in going back to black reach and clockwork city one last time before we have a big grand hurrah and set sail for Pyondinea.
Oh that is just one of the worst excuses they ever made, one you had to go to Blackreach in both the Chapter and the Reach Dlc. It was not optional, those that didn't know about it aka didn't do the storyline or the content they made. Rich Lambert really has to come up with better excuses for not doing something. It was not just some optional thing as it was in Skyrim. It was a main storyline requirement in this years storyline. My guess the real reason is how they did that zone within the same zone. I'm guessing there were issues with programing that in. My guess is they don't want to do programing like that in the same zone again.
I would agree with you but I actually experienced players who genuinely did not understand Blackreach existed. It seemed to happen quite often too. I'd be doing the dailies and out of nowhere, I'd see in the zone "this zone is so much smaller than the other chapters, we got ripped off" to which some would try to tell them about Blackreach part of the chapter. You'd think you were explaining rocket science to a 1-year-old. I ran into this situation probably every few days when I was in the zone, I can only imagine how often it really happened. No doubt the Harrowstorms were probably a bit of an issue but honestly, I think ZOS was telling the whole truth with that... heck I wouldn't be surprised if you found threads on here with players complaining about Western Skyrim's size because they don't realize Blackreach is a thing.0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Blue_Radium wrote: »Rehashing the single-player Oblivion would be overhauling Cyrodiil and making it a partial PvE zone, somehow. We aren't revisiting iconic TES: Oblivion locations. A mainline game being called Oblivion doesn't make ESO content set in Oblivion recycled nostalgia bait.
I agree with this. We are quick to jump on Skingrad and Dagon but imo many are ignoring a lot of other clues and hints about what else there could be.
Hints that indicate the next Chapter will heavily involve Argonians.
1. Argonian Companion is either representative of the player or is a character representative of his home - either way that indicates Black Marsh
2. In the trailer the landscape is mist ridden with the sounds of animals of a swamp or very warm & humid climate.
3. The Vision shows Black Marsh along with Argonian ruins and architecture.
4. The "Global Reveal Event" background in the official news post features Limestone with Greenery and Moss. Limestone has been known to form in wetlands near the ocean.
5. The presence of various Argonian themed crown store items that mention the Imperial City of "Gideon" which is in Black Marsh
6. Gideon was the Captial City of the original Murkmire zone which was originally going to be an Adventure Zone several years ago but was set aside after feedback on Craglorn. The Murkmire in 2018 was not the one that they originally made - meaning the old one could still be repurposed and called something else with Gideon as its capital.
7. Gideon is also in a similar position as the the imperial town we see in the CGI cinematic.
8. Leaks of various upcoming crown store items that are also Argonian themed, like the Wolf-Lizard Pup
9. The Twitch Account Link Stream Reward is a very Exotic Green Dragon Frog - animals that are found in Hew's Bane and Black Marsh.
Also 2019 was a year where we got both something Familiar (Dragons) and New (Elsweyr) in a Chapter - So I would not put it past ZOS to do the same things again with Argonians.
This next bit is more far reaching BUT it is based on on my observations of the build-up and foreshadowing I have seen in questing from relatively recent previous content.
The Green Dragon Frog is reminiscent of Peryite's form - a six limbed Green Dragon.
Peryite has been showing up since the Dragon Bones DLC. His influence is most recently felt in Elsweyr with the spread of the Knahaten Flu which originated in Black Marsh, some believe that Peryite is behind the disease. We had several quests in 2019 that dealt with the Flu and Peryite's Cult.
Why is this important? Remember that the news post said
Worlds - Plural.They’ll be joined by ESO’s Creative Director Rich Lambert and other special guests from the ESO development team to talk about the Gates of Oblivion’s new worlds, challenges, systems, and adventures—all coming in 2021!
How does this tie in to Dagon, the Daedric Prince of Chaos & Destruction? Peryite is the Prince of Natural Order - a perfect counterpoint to Dagon. Two Princes that represent two constant forces in Black Marsh, Chaos and Natural Order.
Peryite is also a great follow up fromNamira, the Scuttling Void who is associated with all things generally considered repulsive - and is heavily a part of the Dark Heart of Skyrim story.
This is not to dismiss Skingrad as a possibility but to point out that there is actually a lot that could be happening and assuming that this will just be a re-skin of the Oblivion game seems a bit premature when even the little information available indicates more than that assumption.
-EndEdited by Iccotak on December 29, 2020 7:44PM6 -
omegatay_ESO✭✭✭✭omegatay_ESO wrote: »I know some love the lizards, but there voices drive me nuts. The content we have is enough in my opinion.
You don't understand how MMO's work do you?
They give us what we don't want, not what we want?0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Western Skyrim/The Reach had nothing whatsoever to do with Skyrim 1000 years in the future, story wise.
Vvardenfell had a little bit of stuff related to the failed Nerevarine, but still mostly a completely different story.
I am sure that Gates of Oblivion will not just be Oblivion 2.0. (Technically, time wise it would be 1.0 as it's before the events of Oblivion)
They're the same landmasses with different stories. We don't even know where Gates of Oblivion is taking place. So, you think we shouldn't be able to visit these areas at all because muh nostalgia pull or something?Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!4 -
AlienMagi✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »
LoL, I would love to see Black Marsh and expand on the current lore but that's just what I see people saying.
Then why did YOU say it?
Black marsh getting finished and connecting Shadowfen + Murkmire would be amazing as far as I'm concerned.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vvardenfell had a little bit of stuff related to the failed Nerevarine, but still mostly a completely different story.
The majority of Vvardenfell's main quest was spoiled to Oblivion and back if you played TES 3.1. Obviously Vivec has plot armor and isn't going to die.
2. Obviously Clockwork City has plot armor and is going to be okay.
3. Obviously Baar Dau doesn't fall and wipe out the city. Plot armor.
4. Obviously we don't get a Nerevarine centuries ahead of schedule. Prophecy plot armor.
5. Obviously Chodala is gonna fail - he's one of the fallen Incarnates we meet in the Cave of the Incarnates.
Clockwork City had similar problems - at least there we got a vastly expanded version of a zone that was at best a long dungeon in the Tribunal DLC...but I never once felt concerned that Sotha Sil or the Clockwork City were ever in serious danger. They have "this person/location appears in future games" style plot armor.
As a player who recently played through TES3 before playing ESO's Morrowind, I found the Chapter's drama around Vivec's powers fading and Baar Dau falling to be manufactured and hollow.
My concern with seeing the same locations as in future games is that when ESO's storylines lean hard on "Oh, no, this iconic location/person is going to be destroyed! You must rush to save them!!!" to produce the energy of their climax, they get badly undercut when I'm like "No it doesn't, ZOS, I've been here in future games. There's no rush. It'll be fine."
Leaning too hard into nostalgia constrains the storytelling and makes immersion harder in the actual story. That's especially true when ZOS tries to do apocalyptic storytelling in an iconic location. We all know it survived.
(And I don't think its any accident that my favorite of ZOS' DLC, Orsinium, isn't apocalyptic. ESO can tell fantastic stories without repeating iconic locations or threatening to destroy the world.)6 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »
LoL, I would love to see Black Marsh and expand on the current lore but that's just what I see people saying.
Then why did YOU say it?
Black marsh getting finished and connecting Shadowfen + Murkmire would be amazing as far as I'm concerned.
In that part of the post, I was talking about how dumb it'd be to avoid an area and what the conversations might be about.0 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Vvardenfell had a little bit of stuff related to the failed Nerevarine, but still mostly a completely different story.
The majority of Vvardenfell's main quest was spoiled to Oblivion and back if you played TES 3.1. Obviously Vivec has plot armor and isn't going to die.
2. Obviously Clockwork City has plot armor and is going to be okay.
3. Obviously Baar Dau doesn't fall and wipe out the city. Plot armor.
4. Obviously we don't get a Nerevarine centuries ahead of schedule. Prophecy plot armor.
5. Obviously Chodala is gonna fail - he's one of the fallen Incarnates we meet in the Cave of the Incarnates.
Clockwork City had similar problems - at least there we got a vastly expanded version of a zone that was at best a long dungeon in the Tribunal DLC...but I never once felt concerned that Sotha Sil or the Clockwork City were ever in serious danger. They have "this person/location appears in future games" style plot armor.
As a player who recently played through TES3 before playing ESO's Morrowind, I found the Chapter's drama around Vivec's powers fading and Baar Dau falling to be manufactured and hollow.
My concern with seeing the same locations as in future games is that when ESO's storylines lean hard on "Oh, no, this iconic location/person is going to be destroyed! You must rush to save them!!!" to produce the energy of their climax, they get badly undercut when I'm like "No it doesn't, ZOS, I've been here in future games. There's no rush. It'll be fine."
Leaning too hard into nostalgia constrains the storytelling and makes immersion harder in the actual story. That's especially true when ZOS tries to do apocalyptic storytelling in an iconic location. We all know it survived.
(And I don't think its any accident that my favorite of ZOS' DLC, Orsinium, isn't apocalyptic. ESO can tell fantastic stories without repeating iconic locations or threatening to destroy the world.)
I had a similar opinion regarding the Summerset storyline. Summerset story was great, but the fact that ESO is taking place in a past era just made all of Nocturnal's threats of destroying and reconstructing Nirn feel hollow and empty. This is why I think they should stay away from 'save the world' ploys (which seems to be the case again with Gates of Oblivion) and focus on less established aspects of lore like they did with Orsinium. It is kinda cool to see certain things as they were in the past like Barilzar in Vvaardenfell before he created his famous ring and becoming a lich, but the main storyline of Vvaardenfell felt like treaded ground because the future has already been established.4 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Finedaible wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Vvardenfell had a little bit of stuff related to the failed Nerevarine, but still mostly a completely different story.
The majority of Vvardenfell's main quest was spoiled to Oblivion and back if you played TES 3.1. Obviously Vivec has plot armor and isn't going to die.
2. Obviously Clockwork City has plot armor and is going to be okay.
3. Obviously Baar Dau doesn't fall and wipe out the city. Plot armor.
4. Obviously we don't get a Nerevarine centuries ahead of schedule. Prophecy plot armor.
5. Obviously Chodala is gonna fail - he's one of the fallen Incarnates we meet in the Cave of the Incarnates.
Clockwork City had similar problems - at least there we got a vastly expanded version of a zone that was at best a long dungeon in the Tribunal DLC...but I never once felt concerned that Sotha Sil or the Clockwork City were ever in serious danger. They have "this person/location appears in future games" style plot armor.
As a player who recently played through TES3 before playing ESO's Morrowind, I found the Chapter's drama around Vivec's powers fading and Baar Dau falling to be manufactured and hollow.
My concern with seeing the same locations as in future games is that when ESO's storylines lean hard on "Oh, no, this iconic location/person is going to be destroyed! You must rush to save them!!!" to produce the energy of their climax, they get badly undercut when I'm like "No it doesn't, ZOS, I've been here in future games. There's no rush. It'll be fine."
Leaning too hard into nostalgia constrains the storytelling and makes immersion harder in the actual story. That's especially true when ZOS tries to do apocalyptic storytelling in an iconic location. We all know it survived.
(And I don't think its any accident that my favorite of ZOS' DLC, Orsinium, isn't apocalyptic. ESO can tell fantastic stories without repeating iconic locations or threatening to destroy the world.)
I had a similar opinion regarding the Summerset storyline. Summerset story was great, but the fact that ESO is taking place in a past era just made all of Nocturnal's threats of destroying and reconstructing Nirn feel hollow and empty. This is why I think they should stay away from 'save the world' ploys (which seems to be the case again with Gates of Oblivion) and focus on less established aspects of lore like they did with Orsinium. It is kinda cool to see certain things as they were in the past like Barilzar in Vvaardenfell before he created his famous ring and becoming a lich, but the main storyline of Vvaardenfell felt like treaded ground because the future has already been established.
That’s why the writers have to put in personal stakes for the player.
There’s always going to be end of the world scenarios we beat but the question is; “at what cost?”
At what cost to ourselves to succeed at saving the world - What and Who do we lose?
Does a villain have a more personal connection to our character?
These help make a story more engaging1 -
scorpius2k1✭✭✭✭✭
✭PLAYERS:
ZOS:
🌎 PC/NA
🐧 Linux (Arch)
🧑💻 ESO Addon Dev
⚔️ Stamplar | Magplar | Stamcro | Magsorc | Magcro Healer0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Vvardenfell had a little bit of stuff related to the failed Nerevarine, but still mostly a completely different story.
The majority of Vvardenfell's main quest was spoiled to Oblivion and back if you played TES 3.1. Obviously Vivec has plot armor and isn't going to die.
2. Obviously Clockwork City has plot armor and is going to be okay.
3. Obviously Baar Dau doesn't fall and wipe out the city. Plot armor.
4. Obviously we don't get a Nerevarine centuries ahead of schedule. Prophecy plot armor.
5. Obviously Chodala is gonna fail - he's one of the fallen Incarnates we meet in the Cave of the Incarnates.
Clockwork City had similar problems - at least there we got a vastly expanded version of a zone that was at best a long dungeon in the Tribunal DLC...but I never once felt concerned that Sotha Sil or the Clockwork City were ever in serious danger. They have "this person/location appears in future games" style plot armor.
As a player who recently played through TES3 before playing ESO's Morrowind, I found the Chapter's drama around Vivec's powers fading and Baar Dau falling to be manufactured and hollow.
My concern with seeing the same locations as in future games is that when ESO's storylines lean hard on "Oh, no, this iconic location/person is going to be destroyed! You must rush to save them!!!" to produce the energy of their climax, they get badly undercut when I'm like "No it doesn't, ZOS, I've been here in future games. There's no rush. It'll be fine."
Leaning too hard into nostalgia constrains the storytelling and makes immersion harder in the actual story. That's especially true when ZOS tries to do apocalyptic storytelling in an iconic location. We all know it survived.
(And I don't think its any accident that my favorite of ZOS' DLC, Orsinium, isn't apocalyptic. ESO can tell fantastic stories without repeating iconic locations or threatening to destroy the world.)
I have played Morrowind many times before ESO and personally did not find the story to be the same, HOWEVER I do agree that a lot of Vvardenfell's story was a bit hollow - but I found that for different reasons - because I just didn't find the writing of that chapter in any way enthralling.
I get that we know Tamriel survives. Of course it does, we've seen it. So, what is the solution? Avoid Daedric Prince arcs that threaten the world or indeed any existential threats to Tamrel? Again, I would surprisingly okay with that, maybe have quests for the Daedra that are smaller and more personal involving their artefacts etc - The Mage's Guild quest with Sheogorath was quite fun in places.
I would also heartily welcome more DLC like Orsinium - the writing of that DLC was fabulous. Smaller, more political stories would be heartily welcome, but I wonder how long that would keep people interested with the game if it were just small stories like that as players do, by and large, enjoy a big, world ending threat. Perhaps a balance? We know that Tamriel will survive, but perhaps that's where the willing suspension of disbelief kicks in if the story is well written enough?
Balance may be key.Sweetrolls for all!
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Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Vvardenfell had a little bit of stuff related to the failed Nerevarine, but still mostly a completely different story.
The majority of Vvardenfell's main quest was spoiled to Oblivion and back if you played TES 3.1. Obviously Vivec has plot armor and isn't going to die.
2. Obviously Clockwork City has plot armor and is going to be okay.
3. Obviously Baar Dau doesn't fall and wipe out the city. Plot armor.
4. Obviously we don't get a Nerevarine centuries ahead of schedule. Prophecy plot armor.
5. Obviously Chodala is gonna fail - he's one of the fallen Incarnates we meet in the Cave of the Incarnates.
Clockwork City had similar problems - at least there we got a vastly expanded version of a zone that was at best a long dungeon in the Tribunal DLC...but I never once felt concerned that Sotha Sil or the Clockwork City were ever in serious danger. They have "this person/location appears in future games" style plot armor.
As a player who recently played through TES3 before playing ESO's Morrowind, I found the Chapter's drama around Vivec's powers fading and Baar Dau falling to be manufactured and hollow.
My concern with seeing the same locations as in future games is that when ESO's storylines lean hard on "Oh, no, this iconic location/person is going to be destroyed! You must rush to save them!!!" to produce the energy of their climax, they get badly undercut when I'm like "No it doesn't, ZOS, I've been here in future games. There's no rush. It'll be fine."
Leaning too hard into nostalgia constrains the storytelling and makes immersion harder in the actual story. That's especially true when ZOS tries to do apocalyptic storytelling in an iconic location. We all know it survived.
(And I don't think its any accident that my favorite of ZOS' DLC, Orsinium, isn't apocalyptic. ESO can tell fantastic stories without repeating iconic locations or threatening to destroy the world.)
I have played Morrowind many times before ESO and personally did not find the story to be the same, HOWEVER I do agree that a lot of Vvardenfell's story was a bit hollow - but I found that for different reasons - because I just didn't find the writing of that chapter in any way enthralling.
I get that we know Tamriel survives. Of course it does, we've seen it. So, what is the solution? Avoid Daedric Prince arcs that threaten the world or indeed any existential threats to Tamrel? Again, I would surprisingly okay with that, maybe have quests for the Daedra that are smaller and more personal involving their artefacts etc - The Mage's Guild quest with Sheogorath was quite fun in places.
I would also heartily welcome more DLC like Orsinium - the writing of that DLC was fabulous. Smaller, more political stories would be heartily welcome, but I wonder how long that would keep people interested with the game if it were just small stories like that as players do, by and large, enjoy a big, world ending threat. Perhaps a balance? We know that Tamriel will survive, but perhaps that's where the willing suspension of disbelief kicks in if the story is well written enough?
Balance may be key.
My suggestion for that would require ZOS to change up content release in order to better pace the imminent danger with the smaller stories.
Daedric War Story Arc was good for this reason. It had both Large and Small stories in a neat three part arc. Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset.
If ZOS were to do three zones released in a year (one larger and the other two smaller) then they would need more and/or larger teams working on this.
And yes it would have to be one year because that was the sweet spot for maintaining player attention in the narrative arc.Edited by Iccotak on December 30, 2020 12:56AM1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Vvardenfell had a little bit of stuff related to the failed Nerevarine, but still mostly a completely different story.
The majority of Vvardenfell's main quest was spoiled to Oblivion and back if you played TES 3.1. Obviously Vivec has plot armor and isn't going to die.
2. Obviously Clockwork City has plot armor and is going to be okay.
3. Obviously Baar Dau doesn't fall and wipe out the city. Plot armor.
4. Obviously we don't get a Nerevarine centuries ahead of schedule. Prophecy plot armor.
5. Obviously Chodala is gonna fail - he's one of the fallen Incarnates we meet in the Cave of the Incarnates.
Clockwork City had similar problems - at least there we got a vastly expanded version of a zone that was at best a long dungeon in the Tribunal DLC...but I never once felt concerned that Sotha Sil or the Clockwork City were ever in serious danger. They have "this person/location appears in future games" style plot armor.
As a player who recently played through TES3 before playing ESO's Morrowind, I found the Chapter's drama around Vivec's powers fading and Baar Dau falling to be manufactured and hollow.
My concern with seeing the same locations as in future games is that when ESO's storylines lean hard on "Oh, no, this iconic location/person is going to be destroyed! You must rush to save them!!!" to produce the energy of their climax, they get badly undercut when I'm like "No it doesn't, ZOS, I've been here in future games. There's no rush. It'll be fine."
Leaning too hard into nostalgia constrains the storytelling and makes immersion harder in the actual story. That's especially true when ZOS tries to do apocalyptic storytelling in an iconic location. We all know it survived.
(And I don't think its any accident that my favorite of ZOS' DLC, Orsinium, isn't apocalyptic. ESO can tell fantastic stories without repeating iconic locations or threatening to destroy the world.)
I have played Morrowind many times before ESO and personally did not find the story to be the same, HOWEVER I do agree that a lot of Vvardenfell's story was a bit hollow - but I found that for different reasons - because I just didn't find the writing of that chapter in any way enthralling.
I get that we know Tamriel survives. Of course it does, we've seen it. So, what is the solution? Avoid Daedric Prince arcs that threaten the world or indeed any existential threats to Tamrel? Again, I would surprisingly okay with that, maybe have quests for the Daedra that are smaller and more personal involving their artefacts etc - The Mage's Guild quest with Sheogorath was quite fun in places.
I would also heartily welcome more DLC like Orsinium - the writing of that DLC was fabulous. Smaller, more political stories would be heartily welcome, but I wonder how long that would keep people interested with the game if it were just small stories like that as players do, by and large, enjoy a big, world ending threat. Perhaps a balance? We know that Tamriel will survive, but perhaps that's where the willing suspension of disbelief kicks in if the story is well written enough?
Balance may be key.
My suggestion for that would require ZOS to change up content release in order to better pace the imminent danger with the smaller stories.
Daedric War Story Arc was good for this reason. It had both Large and Small stories in a neat three part arc. Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset.
If ZOS were to do three zones released in a year (one larger and the other two smaller) then they would need more and/or larger teams working on this.
And yes it would have to be one year because that was the sweet spot for maintaining player attention in the narrative arc.
I'd add that the larger piece of content should probably be the last one. I know that doesn't work well with ZOS' schedule, but I find it very odd to have the big cash-only Chapters leave certain plot threads hanging while relegating the defeat of the overarching big bad to the Q4 DLC.2 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's what's always been "wrong" to me. Plot arch is a rising/falling/rising sequence. In this game, it's backwards.0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, since TES:V exists, we should never have gotten to go to Skyrim on the map in ESO? Simply because there already was a game there?
And you have no idea what Gates of Oblivion will really be. It wont be a TES:IV ripoff cause we already have Cyrodiil.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
Foto1✭✭✭✭Blue_Radium wrote: »Rehashing the single-player Oblivion would be overhauling Cyrodiil and making it a partial PvE zone, somehow. We aren't revisiting iconic TES: Oblivion locations. A mainline game being called Oblivion doesn't make ESO content set in Oblivion recycled nostalgia bait.
I agree with this. We are quick to jump on Skingrad and Dagon but imo many are ignoring a lot of other clues and hints about what else there could be.
Hints that indicate the next Chapter will heavily involve Argonians.
1. Argonian Companion is either representative of the player or is a character representative of his home - either way that indicates Black Marsh
How does this tie in to Dagon, the Daedric Prince of Chaos & Destruction? Peryite is the Prince of Natural Order - a perfect counterpoint to Dagon. Two Princes that represent two constant forces in Black Marsh, Chaos and Nat
This is not to dismiss Skingrad as a possibility but to point out that there is actually a lot that could be happening and assuming that this will just be a re-skin of the Oblivion game seems a bit premature when even the little information available indicates more than that assumption.
-End
Argonians appear in trailers for the third time (2017, 2019, 2021). so it doesn't mean anythingPC/EU CP 1200+
Artaxerks stamina dk khajiit
Wayna Qhapaq magicka dk argonian
Rorekur stamina sorc orc
Maria de Medici magicka sorc breton
Cordeilla stamina warden wood elf
Quienn Gwendolen magicka warden high elf
Nefertari stamina necro khajiit
Boadicea Icenian magicka templar dark elf
Clarice de Medici healer nb breton1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
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I have played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim...Very simple question I wonder what hardcore fanatics or devs will justifity the fact of Oblivion themed xpack is coming and that Western Skyrim with insane similarity or original Elder Scrolls V skyrim which came in 2011, anyway
* Morrowind in ESO is definitely different than TES 3. It feels familiar but different. Like you left the place you grew up and didnt go back for decades. It is still that place but it is very different.
* Skyrim in ESO is different than TES 5. It feels more barren and more wild than TES 5. There are fewer villages, buildings, and people. It feels more barren.
* Cyordil... i'll be honest... is a HUGE letdown in ESO. i was so disappointed the first time i entered cyro and seen in turned into a barren map with a few trees here and there and almost nothing to speak of just so they could toss pvp in the game to hook more people. They could have left the Campaign PVP to Imperial city and just done it really well.
I hope Oblivion is as good as or better than TES 4 was.
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