People will naturally want to go through things as quickly and efficiently as possible because they have to do the random normals multiple times per day to get the transmute crystals they need for their gear.

If someone wants the group to slow down for their quest, they should communicate as such. Otherwise they should just learn how to sprint/roll dodge/heal/shield, two things they should be learning before entering dungeons anyway.

A lot of times when they encounter powerful high level characters they aren't mad, they are impressed. And sometimes will ask for build and game play advice so that their characters can get that strong. Others will just want to work out how to get that strong on their own and start researching guides.

Faiza wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

I'm just not going to equip Wild Hunt and Coward's gear on my low level alts to keep up with tryhards with big egos.

Belegnole wrote: »

So you would force low level players not to have mentors in dungeons?

Also, people who do help and explain still can. On their under 50 characters.

But the suggestion would change a thing. It is not like Zos restricts the same players from running ahead if they are on a sub-50 toon. They will do what they want to regardless of the level of character they are on.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People will naturally want to go through things as quickly and efficiently as possible because they have to do the random normals multiple times per day to get the transmute crystals they need for their gear.

If someone wants the group to slow down for their quest, they should communicate as such. Otherwise they should just learn how to sprint/roll dodge/heal/shield, two things they should be learning before entering dungeons anyway.

A lot of times when they encounter powerful high level characters they aren't mad, they are impressed. And sometimes will ask for build and game play advice so that their characters can get that strong. Others will just want to work out how to get that strong on their own and start researching guides.

I'm not buying this even the slighest. No one is impressed by toxic behavior, and you shouldn't be queuing into normals with the intention of 'impressing" other players.

If you want to show off, do it in vet. If anything, you if actually just wanted to get through the dungeon quickly, you should be happy to queue with players your own level and skill who are also looking to do that, and not low level characters who are there for completion and quests.

It's not toxic behavior to do a run quickly. And I have not only never been kicked from a group for running quickly, I have had people ask me for build advice so they could do the same. I am not queuing to normals to impress anyone, it's a side effect of being semi-decent at the game. I queue into random normals for the 10 transmute crystals.

It's really wild to me that you think that. The toxic one, imo, is the one demanding people waste hours of their life each week purely so you don't have to form your own group for a less efficient run because you want to experience the story or enjoy a slower run.

I have never played another MMO like this one where this is considered toxic behavior. Most other ones expect to have a fast run if they see a high level and nobody spends time discussing how to do an easy dungeon. They just get it over with on both sides. Less arguing, easier to do.

I do agree there should be more strict conditions to enter a veteran dungeon.
I don't mind carrying people in normal dungeons, as far as they're trying to fulfill their role.

Lately for normal random dungeons, I've been tanking in my pvp outfit, with "only" 20+k health.
I have enough damage to solo vanilla dungeons, so poor dds are not a blocking point

Side notes before someone would call me "fake tank":
- My sustain set does heal the team, assuming they are close enough.
- My skills provide team buffs, enemies debuffs, health and synergies.
- I do taunt. I burn more resources than I can generate by spamming "inner fire". I assume the healer, or my teammates will provide fuel for that. I can't taunt nor block infinitely without resources.
- If you're running ahead and take aggro, I assume you know what you're doing, and don't expect me to taunt 10 enemies instantly.

IMO, "under lv50" queue is not needed, but some tutorial, do/don't list of things would help.
1) Don't go in naked or starved.
We just stepped in that dungeon full of monsters with random teammates. We expect others to be fully geared, even in sub-optimal gear, and to have their own food and potions. If you seek charity, go to cities, not in monsters lairs.
2) Slot synergies.
Why wouldn't you ? And I don't blame only "fake healers" here. Don't be selfish, that extra synergy will give resources, and in the end that synergy skill is more useful than another, even if on paper the other thing you slotted has more damage.
3) Don't run ahead (and die alone, most of the time)
You're with a group, nobody said anything about skipping trash mobs, why run away ? Those monsters won't die by themselves, but they may die faster if we stick together. Also, even if you're not so far away, mind your group's AoEs, that monster will die faster into group effects than in a corner of the room.
4) Know where is the best spot
By default, your tank should be ahead of the group, facing his teammates (monsters turning their back to others), and your healer should be behind the group, everyone front of him. Sometimes things get messy. Don't go between the tank and the mobs, you may take heavy damage. Stay front of your healer, he can't help you when you hide behind his back. Don't run in the middle of a fight, the monsters running after you would be harder to target : block or dodge.
5) You can slot heals, roots, stuns and chains.
Nobody will blame you for negating enemy damage, or grouping mobs around the tank. As long as you're not using a taunt skill, things should be easier. Also, I've never heard a healer blaming dds for healing themselves. On the opposite end of the spectrum, being a healer or tank doesn't mean you shouldn't deal damage at all, nobody will blame you for killing monsters.
6) Say what you expect.
First, say "hello", then you may speak with teammates. You may be here for a quest, your teammates can't see it if they've done it already. And yes, sometimes they don't know that dungeon mechanics, or even game mechanics. Blaming people for not doing something they were never told to rarely helps (ofc, if you're in veteran setting, people are supposed to know what they're doing).

redspecter23 wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

ZOS needs to think harder about how to encourage experienced players to be good neighbours. FFXIV has a kudos system: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Player_Commendation

Gate mounts and transmutes behind that and you'd see a lot more mentoring.

Oh BTW. a friend of mine that didn't enjoy the low level dungeons because of all the elitism thats going in noob content is actually now playing FFXIV. so.. hu.. yeah, theres that

That system would actually be awesome.
Way better solution than "Newbs need to find themselves a group and not use queue" logic

If your friend found a good guild, they might still be playing ESO. You seem to have this idea that with enough rules and restrictions you can change human nature to suit your idea of queue perfection. Even if you did accomplish that, it would be perfect for you. You should have enough evidence already in this thread that your idea of what's right is not similar to what many other people want. Suggesting that because it's a change you want and everyone else should also want that is naive. People play the game differently. It would be impossible to design a queue system that allows for that sort of flexibility, however, when you form your own group, you remove the need for the system to design something you want. You have full control. Why expect a game system to be able to do that for you?

You can´t solve these issues by telling people to join a guild - many are all ready in a guild. Guilds are infact very much overrated and most know it.

People doing these run in norm dungeons is part of a guild themself and not able to make people join in on some of these asocial speedevents, so they que on there own.

I would say asking people to join a guild to solve this problem is an insult to many. It should never be mandatory to join a guild in ESO,, just because some want to play nice and intented.

This "joiin a guil" is very outdated and brings nothng, but support for those who make it very hard for people to enjoy ESO as intented.

ThePedge wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

ZOS needs to think harder about how to encourage experienced players to be good neighbours. FFXIV has a kudos system: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Player_Commendation

Gate mounts and transmutes behind that and you'd see a lot more mentoring.

Oh BTW. a friend of mine that didn't enjoy the low level dungeons because of all the elitism thats going in noob content is actually now playing FFXIV. so.. hu.. yeah, theres that

That system would actually be awesome.
Way better solution than "Newbs need to find themselves a group and not use queue" logic

If your friend found a good guild, they might still be playing ESO. You seem to have this idea that with enough rules and restrictions you can change human nature to suit your idea of queue perfection. Even if you did accomplish that, it would be perfect for you. You should have enough evidence already in this thread that your idea of what's right is not similar to what many other people want. Suggesting that because it's a change you want and everyone else should also want that is naive. People play the game differently. It would be impossible to design a queue system that allows for that sort of flexibility, however, when you form your own group, you remove the need for the system to design something you want. You have full control. Why expect a game system to be able to do that for you?

Tbh the poll shows that people clearly don't want below 50 queues. But that doesn't mean they are happy with the faking that's going on. Its a flawed poll and should have another option maybe.

The only thing i would expect is using the queue the way devs intended it to be used.
The queue clearly lets you know that you can't have 2 healers, or 2 tanks, or more than 2 DDs. everyone bypassing that is not doing it as it was intended.

If people used vote kick to deal with fake roles, then eventually, people would stop queueing as a fake role. I do my part and kick fake tanks even if I know we can win with them faking.

To be honest that only gives a reason for an Under 50 queue imo.

At no point in time do I want to queue and get a healer. But Under 50s do.

There are a very few bosses having a healing is useful for, and they are all in Veteran DLC dungeons, maybe even only Hard Modes of those.

Regarding healer ? That seems a solutions for you and maybe it´s better for you to have that "additional" dd with you - on my dd´s I don´t need that additional dd.

Leave healer´s alone and come to terms whith the fact, that even player´s over lvl 50 and max cp can do very well with a healer in their group and that is how it should be.

Playing together with a support or support roles. It eigther make you a worse or better player.

So ? What do you want ? All healers out of the game so you can speedrun norms ? In your answere it seems you want to be all over the place and support everything. Supporting the "vote kick" supporters don´t help any, because it don´t work that well. It works if you are three friends and you get a fake or a runner, but not if this fake or runner have a "friend" with them - we all know that. So why pull it up as a solution as it is working well, because it isn´t.

These fake and runners is having a real good laugh and can´t blame them

idk wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

gamergirldk wrote: »

how hard is it to start out by typing.. I need to do quests?

people hardly say hi anymore and expect other to know they need quest?

well, hu.. its litteraly in the description

And people below level 50 can, and are, just as rude so the idea would not solve that issue either.

If an under 50 dungeon queue would actually eliminate the things mentioned then it would be worth considering. In fact, it does nothing to isolate new players from experienced players or players rushing ahead.

The GF is not designed to put together the "proper group" that seems to be desired as it is meant to assemble a random group of players that are available in the queue. I suggest forming your own group to get the "proper group" desired.

It also creates the problem of old players not being able to learn something new without judgement.

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

I usually have a proper group, but I play tank or healer 99 percent of the time.

But the biggest problem is we need more dps slots in dungeons or promote healing and tanking more.

Then you need harder dungeons. Three or four dds do more damage than two, just so we are over that disscution.

Where do this end up ? lol

svendf wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

I usually have a proper group, but I play tank or healer 99 percent of the time.

But the biggest problem is we need more dps slots in dungeons or promote healing and tanking more.

Then you need harder dungeons. Three or four dds do more damage than two, just so we are over that disscution.

Where do this end up ? lol

I do agreen on more support for tanks and healers, but you will still have these, who will push for more dps and we don´t need this and that role in this and that type of content lol

Let us queue for a random with 1-3 players who don't want a traditional group of 4. Or even queue for 4 random players who all agree to play with whoever shows up regardless of roles. The limitations of having rewards tied to a traditional group that many of us don't even want is the problem. Fix that.

Far simpler would be to fix the stupid dungeon finder two dd, healer, tank requirement for random normal/veteran then the folks who don't actually need to group could just go solo their random normal in peace and everyone would be happier.

For everything else you can just walk into a dungeon, for your crystals you gotta group and we all suffer as a result.

Another fix would be to make random vet dungeons give more crystals than normal (eg 5 for normal, 10 for normal dlc, 15 for vet) so they go play in the right dungeon.