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Fakers and the need for speed.
WraithShadow13
✭✭✭✭
It seems like this has been an issue that's only become worse this month.
Pretty much every run for the last few weeks, i've had that one person with the copy/paste uber build in the normal dungeons. The first thing they do is just take off, running through groups, ignoring enemies, trying to solo bosses, etc, all while queued as tanks or healers. I get that things aren't balanced in this game, and i admire people who can build their own insane builds, that's legitimately cool. The problem here tends to be these people just... aren't good at it. I've seen several people do this and getting wiped out, run passed enemies who then turn and run for other teammates (often blocking passageways), being rude or jerks verbally, skipping entire areas to speedrun even harder, not giving people enough time to loot, and just kind of ruining the fun for others.
Has anyone else been seeing this? What's going on and why has it become so prevalent?
Why not just *actually* solo it? Why not queue for Vet dungeons?
Is there just a shortage of players rolling tanks and healers or a general consensus as to why? I'm legitimately curious as to what's happening here or if anything is going to be done to fix the issues causing this.
Pretty much every run for the last few weeks, i've had that one person with the copy/paste uber build in the normal dungeons. The first thing they do is just take off, running through groups, ignoring enemies, trying to solo bosses, etc, all while queued as tanks or healers. I get that things aren't balanced in this game, and i admire people who can build their own insane builds, that's legitimately cool. The problem here tends to be these people just... aren't good at it. I've seen several people do this and getting wiped out, run passed enemies who then turn and run for other teammates (often blocking passageways), being rude or jerks verbally, skipping entire areas to speedrun even harder, not giving people enough time to loot, and just kind of ruining the fun for others.
Has anyone else been seeing this? What's going on and why has it become so prevalent?
Why not just *actually* solo it? Why not queue for Vet dungeons?
Is there just a shortage of players rolling tanks and healers or a general consensus as to why? I'm legitimately curious as to what's happening here or if anything is going to be done to fix the issues causing this.
7
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JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh yeah, this has been a thing forever. Just vote to kick them and see if the rest of the group votes the person out. That's about all you can do.
Kicked a player in Vet Arx once for doing exactly that and another one in ICP Vet.2 -
WraithShadow13✭✭✭✭JanTanhide wrote: »Oh yeah, this has been a thing forever. Just vote to kick them and see if the rest of the group votes the person out. That's about all you can do.
Kicked a player in Vet Arx once for doing exactly that and another one in ICP Vet.
Usually, once it starts getting bad, i will hit the vote but so far, only once or twice has the rest of the team actually voted.2 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭i norm say in chat about slowing down, if they ignore i will vote to kickMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike6
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Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WraithShadow13 wrote: »What's going on and why has it become so prevalent?
Why not just *actually* solo it? Why not queue for Vet dungeons?
People who are overpowered for normal dungeons (or believe they are) are incentivized to queue for random normals to quickly and easily get their transmute crystals. You don't get them if you don't use the queue, and you don't get any more crystals queuing vet vs normal.Edited by Mindcr0w on December 26, 2020 12:20PM11 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭WraithShadow13 wrote: »Why not just *actually* solo it? Why not queue for Vet dungeons?
Random normal rewards you with 10 transmute crystals. If people could get the same reward for soloing, they'd solo. Personally I'd rather do that, than wait for DF to get me in a group with two max CP DDs who do 10k DPS combined, or a nightblade "tank" with 14k HP.12 -
Pauls✭✭✭✭✭I would like to do dungeons with fake tank or healer with 40k dps instead of fake dd with 10k dps – they should be kicked immediately12
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NoMoreChillies✭✭✭✭✭
✭transmute crystals
blame the devsInsulting people on the internet is cowardly.14 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would like to do dungeons with fake tank or healer with 40k dps instead of fake dd with 10k dps – they should be kicked immediately
Right because queueing for a role you won't actually even be attempting to perform, and just not being very good at the game are equivalent offenses. And bad players shouldn't even be allowed into normal dungeons. 🙄Edited by Mindcr0w on December 26, 2020 12:31PM11 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When I pug, I only queue for specific normal dungeons that I'm quite familiar with. So the rewards are no better than soloing them. I had this same problem in nDirefrost Keep yesterday - possibly because there's a place that requires two players to stand on two separate plates (that's why I queued for it as one of the day's pledges). Sure enough there was a runaway dps pulling things as they went, then getting into trouble.
The tank tried to keep up. The other dps was trying to do the quest - and not dawdling at quest stops either. As the healer, I don't care so much where the group is or how fast they go but I hate trying to support a split group. I was torn whether to stay with the questing dps or run ahead to support the tank trying to support the runway dps. Happily, it is not a hard dungeon though I had to resurrect the runaway dps a couple times once I caught up with them. The tank was a real tank and I'm sure did not appreciate having to salvage messes ahead of him instead of initiating pulls.Edited by AcadianPaladin on December 26, 2020 12:35PMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo3 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZOS does not see some players are completely destroying the MMO part of the game, which isn't good for the game itself. Fake roles, speed runners, etc... It's all players abusing other players who did want to play the game normally! ZOS should handle this kind of scum, with increasingly longer groupfinder bans(starting with one week). Maybe step it up to a full accountban if they are caught 5 times.
Recently I did get a speed runner like that in veteran, ofcourse I tried vote kick right away. Which the others did not agree on apparently. The guy was more dead than alive. And actually made the dungeon go SLOWER!
Players like that do not deserve the transmute crystals and experience they gain!10 -
WraithShadow13✭✭✭✭Ohhhh, valid point. I would have never placed it on the Transmutation Crystals. That makes way more sense now.
I wonder if they're going to do anything to fix that, or at least ease the hassle it's causing.
What would you guys suggest, in terms of solutions or adjustments for the Devs to look into?Right because queueing for a role you won't actually even be attempting to perform, and just not being very good at the game are equivalent offenses. And bad players shouldn't even be allowed into normal dungeons. 🙄
Totally agree. This game has no balance and does absolutely nothing in-game to teach roles, so when the minmaxers hit the uber builds, and the a-hole players copy/paste those builds and proceed to be a-holes, it really skews the point there. I'm not the greatest player around but even then, the devs cater to the uber builds more than they do trying to balance them or teach players how to hit the higher numbers. Having a high DPS is great but when the game becomes nothing but an arms race, you get what we have here, where no one wants to play the other roles. DCUO completely destroyed the Controller role because DPS is king and bigger enemies are immune to control, so they made controllers batteries... FOR the dps. It's lunacy.
Also, it gets annoying when you have someone copy/paste an uber build but they can't play it, so they start getting toxic to the rest of the team, or worse, harassing lower level players in pvp because they're "better", without actually being so.
I would be curious to see any official metrics from the devs about Max DPS versus average player dps versus tank or healer dps. Saying players under 10k dps in a normal dungeon should be kicked is just a weird standpoint.3 -
Word of advice, don’t play with randoms then. Thats how matchmaking works, you can enroll six sides of dice. If you know what I mean...3 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WraithShadow13 wrote: »What's going on and why has it become so prevalent?
Why not just *actually* solo it? Why not queue for Vet dungeons?
People who are overpowered for normal dungeons (or believe they are) are incentivized to queue for random normals to quickly and easily get their transmute crystals. You don't get them if you don't use the queue, and you don't get any more crystals queuing vet vs normal.
This. And the fact you get the composition bonus for doing so.
Remove the bonus from the game entirely, and introduce random incompletes to fix it.1 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoMoreChillies wrote: »transmute crystals
blame the devs
I agree and disagree.
Transmute crystals, yes.
Blame the devs? No, that is shifting the blame from where it belongs-- on the players who choose to run ahead and essentially solo the dungeon as rapidly as possible, deliberately screwing the other three members of the group in the process.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!9 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They did add a fix to this problem ‘Guilds’. Join one and queue together and you will have no more of that nonsense going on.
If you’re pugging and someone is causing the group an issue, vote to kick. On the other hand, if things are going fast just finish and get your rewards.
1 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »NoMoreChillies wrote: »transmute crystals
blame the devs
I agree and disagree.
Transmute crystals, yes.
Blame the devs? No, that is shifting the blame from where it belongs-- on the players who choose to run ahead and essentially solo the dungeon as rapidly as possible, deliberately screwing the other three members of the group in the process.
You would not believe how often people thank rushers for saving XP scroll or ambrosia time.
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Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭I get why people speedrun and fake queue but I don’t necessarily like it. I’ve just learned to deal with it and follow whatever the group is doing. Sometimes I would like to at least have a second to do the quest for the skill point, but players have other ideas and some of those easier dungeons have long winded stories with 2 minutes of dialogue before you can grab the next quest marker and move on.
Take last night for instance, I’m doing VoM on my 6th character and I need the skill point but all this waiting for dialogue sends the tank, healer and other dps running through to the next mobs and boss before I actually catch up. Now I’m max CP so it’s kind of trivial all of the mobs or drops we can get, but even writing in chat to wait a sec for this run on story to end gets ignored. I’m certainly not going to bail and wait another 20 min in queue for this.
Sure I could solo this dungeon easily but the point of GF is the transmute stones and I need a pile of those as well mainly for QOL so I can stop passing this Siroria and Relequen gear back and forth between all of my toons. Sticker book was a great idea for reconstruction of gear but implementation of the additional sources of crystals still needs work. Until then the fake support and speed runs will continue. It is what it is.1 -
Scardan✭✭✭✭✭I am CP 297 and I still was not in a dungeon, the more complaints I read about dungeon issues, the less I want to do them xD.
Well, I am gathering skyshards anyway, so I maybe I should get some skills for healer role on my necro. Looks like easiest one for grinding crystals. At least there will be no fake healer in the group.xDLet's be extremely precise in our use of terms.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WraithShadow13 wrote: »It seems like this has been an issue that's only become worse this month.
Pretty much every run for the last few weeks, i've had that one person with the copy/paste uber build in the normal dungeons. The first thing they do is just take off, running through groups, ignoring enemies, trying to solo bosses, etc, all while queued as tanks or healers. I get that things aren't balanced in this game, and i admire people who can build their own insane builds, that's legitimately cool. The problem here tends to be these people just... aren't good at it. I've seen several people do this and getting wiped out, run passed enemies who then turn and run for other teammates (often blocking passageways), being rude or jerks verbally, skipping entire areas to speedrun even harder, not giving people enough time to loot, and just kind of ruining the fun for others.
Has anyone else been seeing this? What's going on and why has it become so prevalent?
Why not just *actually* solo it? Why not queue for Vet dungeons?
Is there just a shortage of players rolling tanks and healers or a general consensus as to why? I'm legitimately curious as to what's happening here or if anything is going to be done to fix the issues causing this.
I don't like it either. But its become prevalent in modern MMORPGs. It's even worse in some other games (like FInal Fantasy 14) where it happens 99% of the time.
The problem is they don't make the regular pulls inside dungeons hit hard enough so they don't require any strategy. So players can just run through them and treat them like "trash" - which is literally what they call them these days. MMORPGs generally have regressed in terms of gameplay. There was a time when even on regular pulls you needed strategy... tanks to take the brunt, healers to keep people alive and support classes to "CC" the mobs. But now an days the biggest concern is just rounding up enough of them to make the run as fast as possible. It's pretty lame.Edited by Jeremy on December 26, 2020 8:55PM2 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WraithShadow13 wrote: »It seems like this has been an issue that's only become worse this month.
Pretty much every run for the last few weeks, i've had that one person with the copy/paste uber build in the normal dungeons. The first thing they do is just take off, running through groups, ignoring enemies, trying to solo bosses, etc, all while queued as tanks or healers. I get that things aren't balanced in this game, and i admire people who can build their own insane builds, that's legitimately cool. The problem here tends to be these people just... aren't good at it. I've seen several people do this and getting wiped out, run passed enemies who then turn and run for other teammates (often blocking passageways), being rude or jerks verbally, skipping entire areas to speedrun even harder, not giving people enough time to loot, and just kind of ruining the fun for others.
Has anyone else been seeing this? What's going on and why has it become so prevalent?
Why not just *actually* solo it? Why not queue for Vet dungeons?
Is there just a shortage of players rolling tanks and healers or a general consensus as to why? I'm legitimately curious as to what's happening here or if anything is going to be done to fix the issues causing this.
I don't like it either. But its become prevalent in modern MMORPGs. It's even worse in some other games (like FInal Fantasy 14) where it happens 99% of the time.
The problem is they don't make the regular pulls inside dungeons hit hard enough so they don't require any strategy. So players can just run through them and treat them like "trash" - which is literally what they call them these days. MMORPGs generally have regressed in terms of gameplay. There was a time when even on regular pulls you needed strategy... tanks to take the brunt, healers to keep people alive and support classes to "CC" the mobs. But now an days the biggest concern is just rounding up enough of them to make the run as fast as possible. It's pretty lame.
Not lame, call it casual.
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Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am so glad I regularly play an actual tank and hardly run into this issue.
There was only one time I got kicked and it was because everyone else was purely DPS. I got kicked because I was doing my job and the "healer" wasn't...0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am CP 297 and I still was not in a dungeon, the more complaints I read about dungeon issues, the less I want to do them xD.
Well, I am gathering skyshards anyway, so I maybe I should get some skills for healer role on my necro. Looks like easiest one for grinding crystals. At least there will be no fake healer in the group.xD
It's not that the dungeons themselves are terrible or that they're always a terrible experience. It's just that if you use groupfinder you end up with 3 completely random people. And ESO has a rather...diverse playerbase so, like, just a pick of 3 absolutely random people from Earth. They might want to quest and read every npc word and loot every single sack in the dungeon, they might want to skip all the bosses and run straight to the last one, they might be supersweet souls that you'll become bff with and still talk to even out of the game years after, or they might be super rude jerks that enjoy trolling people, they might not speak English, they might have legit mental issues. You never know. I've met most my ESO friends in random dungeon groups, but I've also had more than a handful runs which left me raging and frustrated.
There're basically 2 ways around it:
1) don't pug at all. The random dungeon reward that everyone here is talking about as biggest pug incentive can be gotten by queueing with a full pre-made group. Of course that means you know 3 other people for a pre-made. You could join a guild, at least then they'll be randoms with similar enough mindset to join same guild as you so there'll be that.
2) don't take it seriously. You have to accept that when you pug, the dungeon might not go the way you prefer it or it might not go at all and you won't get to complete it. But it can still be fun:) And in the end of the day, it's just a game and it's just 3 completely random people that you'll probably never ever run into again (not to mention that if you do, you likely won't recognize each other).2 -
grkkll✭✭✭✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »They did add a fix to this problem ‘Guilds’. Join one and queue together and you will have no more of that nonsense going on.
If you’re pugging and someone is causing the group an issue, vote to kick. On the other hand, if things are going fast just finish and get your rewards.
We can run guild random vets almost as quick as pug normals, it's the way to go plus better drops and a monster head too. Problem is outside prime time it can be difficult to get a group. I wonder if there are guilds that mainly specialize in dungeons. Most of the guild I've been in focus on trials0 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »NoMoreChillies wrote: »transmute crystals
blame the devs
I agree and disagree.
Transmute crystals, yes.
Blame the devs? No, that is shifting the blame from where it belongs-- on the players who choose to run ahead and essentially solo the dungeon as rapidly as possible, deliberately screwing the other three members of the group in the process.
You would not believe how often people thank rushers for saving XP scroll or ambrosia time.
As long as speeding through the dungeon is what half or more of the group want, that's great-- if the one who ran ahead had cleared it with everyone else first.
But the problem I keep hearing in the forum is where the lone wolf speed-runner does not communicate with the rest of the group, shoots ahead without warning, refuses to slow down if asked to, kills the final boss before anyone else has a chance to get there and get in a shot, and screws the other three group members out of the opportunity to loot the final boss. That is selfish and inconsiderate, pure and simple.
Personally, I don't run into that problem anymore-- I did run into it once last year-- because I solo dungeons if I decide I want to run them, and I'd prefer to form a premade group if I want to run a dungeon I can't solo.
But I don't queue for dungeons to farm transmute crystals, and I don't run dungeons to farm gear, because I've chosen not to do either of those things. I also chose not to grind scrying and excavating as rapifly as possible the moment Greymoor was released, and to farm leads for mythic gear.
The devs that some players love to blame for their bad behavior or obsessive grinding don't control or manipulate my in-game behavior; I control it through my own free will. So when players try to blame their own choices and actions on the devs-- sorry, but no, no, no, I'm not buying that, not for one second.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!3 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »They did add a fix to this problem ‘Guilds’. Join one and queue together and you will have no more of that nonsense going on.
If you’re pugging and someone is causing the group an issue, vote to kick. On the other hand, if things are going fast just finish and get your rewards.
We can run guild random vets almost as quick as pug normals, it's the way to go plus better drops and a monster head too. Problem is outside prime time it can be difficult to get a group. I wonder if there are guilds that mainly specialize in dungeons. Most of the guild I've been in focus on trials
Usually around trials before/after is when a bunch of my guilds run dungeons. Random normals before to get the transmutes and vet dungeons after either for specific pieces or the days pledges. Or if someone is farming specific gear we may do a couple runs on normal to fill out their sticker book so they can remake the set themselves.0 -
So glad im playing eso the mmo like a single player game with interesting npcs (and a cash shop).
Thanks for making me feel relieved for choosing not to group play this time around.0 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I thought the 1st word of this thread was something else when I first read it lol1
