Bountyultrasoft wrote: »

I was questing in Stonefalls the other day and I'm not going to lie that it felt a little strange having the whole zones story be about fighting the DC when I myself am a DC member.

Before you embark on the Cadwell's Silver quest, @Bountyultrasoft, Cadwell himself literally tells you that there might be some strange plot happenings when in the shoes of an Ebonheart Pact player ... so that shouldn't be a surprise to you:

"Cadwell has approached me and offered me a chance to see how events might have played out if I'd washed up on the shores of a different alliance after escaping Coldharbour."

I think your ideas are good.

However, I wouldn't be too keen on seeing these types of enhancements any time soon ... since it requires the developers to spend time on the base game (rather than new content).

I would love it if they released a chapter which would resolve the conflict between the factions which is obviously something that happened in the lore anyway, maybe this would be the final chapter though to fully close out ESO.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

I will defend the Pact against any invader... but I have always been less happy about the alliance as a whole.

My characters have always been into the well-being of their own race (the Dunmer) and the civilians living in Dunmeri areas (e.g Vvardenfell) but far less interested in following Jorunn. There are very few Nords who don’t actively get on my nerves. This doesn’t help.

I’d love to see a return to factional stories though. Resolving a lot of the ongoing issues in the base game zones would be awesome. A way to rebuild your faction and your faction allegiance.

I have a question that is bugging me since the start of this war. At this point the dunmer have literally 3 living gods siding with them. How the hell are they not winning the war?

Oh, GOOD question!

[Disclaimer: I have Pact characters. I still wonder why....]

@Cygemai_Hlervu - I know you must have some insight here.

Hello, dear @Sylvermynx! I'm so glad to see you're online! Haven't spoken with you for ages .. So much things need to be done at the end of the year.. Happy holidays to you! So, we have two questions here: 1. Why the Tribunal gods are not helping to win the War personally by using their powers and 2. Why the Pact is not winning the War. Here is what I think about it.

The questions are indeed very interesting, though I think that my explanation would be not that much of it. Let's start with the Tribunal. First I have to begin with the definition of god given by the Tribunal Temple itself, because I suppose different players can presume different phenomena under that word. As we know it, there are two branches of the Dunmeri religion and they have many differences and the definition of god is not an exception there (I wrote about the major differences in my Guide to Religions of Tamriel. Tribunal Temple Section). So, the definitions:
Canonic Temple: a god is one of the three formerly mortal guardians of Morrowind who walked the earth, defeated the Dunmer's greatest enemies, the Nords and the Dwemer, and achieved divine substance through superhuman discipline and virtue and supernatural wisdom and insight thus forming ALMSIVI - the Tribunal of the Three Divine entities (Fellowship of the Temple, Articles of Faith section, by Archcanon Tholer Saryoni).
Apostolic Temple: a god is one of the three formerly mortal guardians of Morrowind who walked the earth, defeated the Dunmer's greatest enemies, the Nords and the Dwemer, and achieved divine substance through superhuman discipline and virtue and supernatural wisdom and insight thus forming ALMSIVI - one entity, not the fractured creation. It only appears fractured in the forms of the three gods, but rather than separate deities they are all one portion of a welded whole regulated in their irregularities. Lady Almalexia and Lord Vivec, who are only consistent in their inconsistency, still create the order of the truths. They are the tock within the Lord Seht's tick, the wheel that forever goes forward but only to circle itself (Worshiping the Illogical by Proctor Nevyn, Apostle of Sotha Sil).

The Dunmeri gods has never been said to be the almighty, all seeing, omniscient and all merciful gods. Yes, they are strong, but not that strong, unstoppable or horrific as, say, Dagoth Ur. Their divinity did not stop the Second Empire from declaring war upon Morrowind (and from losing it), it did not make them a super weapon during the recent Akaviri Invasion when Vivec was said to "administer baptism" to the last of the Akaviri forces in the waters of the Sea of Ghosts, it did not make Vivec see the recent plots of Barbas and did not save the High Fane of Mournhold from it's recent desecration. They bear more features of those whom we call the demi-gods, say, in the Ancient Greek mythology rather than gods in it's traditional modern meaning.

Why did they not interfere? First, I suppose it's because Vivec is considered to be weak because of the Barbas's activity in Vvardenfell, Almalexia is busy with Maulborn and her High Fane, while Sotha Sil conducts his study as usual and helps us to fight off the Daedric threat - something he considers a much greater danger than another war between mortals. All this events happen the same year of 2E 582 and the lore does not mention it strictly what part of the year those events are happening in, and if they are happening simultaneously or in a specific order - this is something defined by the Elder Scrolls and these events will become unchangeable to it's readers after each of them "read" it the way they do in their preffered order. Moreover, Morrowind is threatened by the Daggerfall Covenant in two provinces only governed by Houses Dres and Indoril - I doubt that they are acting without the Temple's blessing there.

We can also remember the words of the Servant of Almalexia - "My Lady has many responsibilities to her children. Is Iliath more important than the Covenant invasion? Than Molag Bal's schemes? Than a mother struggling to give birth in Mournhold, or a father praying for his sick child's life in Seyda Neen? Even if they do attack, everyone here will still die some day. Even you, child. One night, you will close your eyes and never return to Tamriel. The Tribunal does not offer immortality, nor does it shield the reverent from the trials of life"
Indeed, one day we all will log off and never return to Tamriel ). Anyway, I think it shows clearly they way the Tribunal acts - they are not everywhere, in most cases they use champions and messengers, i.e. the providers of their will, Ordinators, champions like Buoyant Armigers or Her Hands, outsiders, Morag Tong, and they act personally on a battlefield very rarely. You have also to remember is that it is not kings or gods serving their people - it's all vice versa and this is why you'll never see the really powerful entities in dangerous places like battlefields. They go out fighting personally only when they risk to lose everything, and nothing else at their disposal can stop an enemy threatening them.

Now regarding the "not winning the war" question. The Pact is winning it actually ). There are no lore references pointing that the Dominion will be successful in conquering the Imperial City and other lands at any point of time between 2E 582 - 2E 896. Likewise the Covenant will not be successful in reinstating the Second Empire (it's very different from the Third one and I showed it in the Empire section of my Guide to Socio-Economic Formations of Tamriel). The next thing I have to point our attention to is the Tiber Wars and the lands conquered by Tiber Septim: he started out from the Falkreath Hold and conquered the Western Reach, then it were the Northern Cyrodiil, Colovia, the Imperial City, the rest of Cyrodiil, Wayrest and High Rock, then invaded Elsweyr sacking Senchal, the he had battles with the regular forces of the Dominion (like the Battle of Black Rocks) anc invaded Hammerfell marching through Sentinel and up to Stros M'Kai, finally he did invade Mournhold indeed, but as the order of the events show it, he did it to wipe out it's royal dynasty only, not to conquer the entire country as he did everywhere else. And finally with the help of Vivec he crushed Alinor.

As you see it, Tiber Septim carefully avoided invading the modern Pact states while ruthlessly marching through and suppressing all the resistance in the lands of the Covenant and the Dominion. Nords love him so much that will venerate him as a god. Argonia was incorporated into the Third Empire without conquest (according to the only existing source on that matter - a single line in the A Short History of Morrowind) as well as Morrowind managed to keep much of it's autonomy.

Finally, two extra things.
First. The Tamriel Pact, the very goal of the Ebonheart Pact policy described in the works of the Pact propagandist Alla Laleth (The Time of the Ebonheart Pact and Breaking the Cycle of Tyranny) is exactly the model of the Third Empire that Tiber Septim will build in about three hundred years - the Pact where the Covenant kings will be indeed deposed and their successors will be brought into a new Tamriel Pact, where wiser heads shall prevail, where the Aedra, Daedra, and Hist are all revered and the Tamriel Pact, which will enforce peace across the continent and strictly regulate all involvement in dangerous magical pursuits.
Second. We have already witnessed the beginning of the process - Western Skyrim made friends with the Eastern holds (and thus the Pact I presume), the Reach allowed them both to enter it's lands and friendship between the nations and among the Nord people (at least their political leaders) is something that has been flying in the air thanks to the recent DLCs. Falkreath is also not that far from joining their northern brothers and they all are one step before unification. This all is a huge political success of the Pact nations. Now look at those Dominion and Covenant kingdoms, look at the Orc people who have just overthrown their leader, a devoted Covenant supporter, look at the Altmeri-Khajiiti actual relations and all their activities, look at the recent Covenant and Aldmeri military "successes" in Morrowind and in Argonia respectively.

Of course, the lore of 2E 582 - 2E 896 is not written ultimately yet, so everything can be changed, but the things I observe today tell me that the Pact, or at least it's policy, will prevail. This is what I think regarding this issues.

@Cygemai_Hlervu - good to "see" you too! I hope you will have very happy holidays, whichever of them you keep.

Thank you for that detailed exposition. I skimmed it just now, as I'm having to go get dinner on the table, but I will read it thoroughly later!

@ealdwin - your post is also very interesting; thank you for taking the time to make it, and explain from another angle.

@JKorr - no, I don't believe so. I will have to check it out.