Any communication from the devs/class reps or community manager on the failure of the vamp rework?
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Scardan✭✭✭✭✭VampireLordLover99 wrote: »
I love that vampire's only use is being an "interesting" solo build. Even though vampires are notorious for grouping and working in clans within ESO. And the ultimate is still a re skin of an existing ability. Not saying it's trash, but saying the creativity and design behind such an ability is god awful.
There's plenty of people interested in an actual vampire skill line. This just ain't it.
I must say right away that I didn’t like being a vampire, mainly because I don’t have the necessary sets (false god, Caluurion etc) and because of the arrangement of his passives - either endure the inconvenience with NPCs at stage four or don’t get a bunch of goodies at the first and second stages. I'm too lazy to constantly drag and drop skills back and forth every time I need to sell loot.
Anyway, you can make interesting builds and have fun - if you have the gear xD. Played with Auradin in Diablo 2? Here you can make something similar from a vampire - necromancer, only it will be DoT based and in close combat. You can build around the ult and blood frenzy, and the nightblade should be even more suitable for this. Fun is subjective thing and there are people on both sides
EDIT: In general, I support your suggestion about changes. Especially the part about passives.Edited by Scardan on December 18, 2020 7:12PMLet's be extremely precise in our use of terms.0 -
VampireLordLover99✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »"Just because you like it and make it work doesn't mean that it can't be improved"
Yes. True. As much as I like it, I could definitely accept some improvements to it.
And just because you don't like it and can't figure out how to make it work doesn't mean it's a "failure".
Not just my opinion. When the majority census is that it's unviable and a failure in most content; it's a failure.3 -
VampireLordLover99✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »VampireLordLover99 wrote: »First off the guild reps are not permitted to talk to us about any discussions going on. They are legally forbidden which is why we do not hear from them in an official capacity. Heck, I rarely see the Class Rep tag in the forums anymore.
As for Zos failing, I do not think they agree. Remember, they now have a vision for combat in this game. Something many of us have not agreed with but it is their vision after all.
When the majority of the playerbase says that vampire is unviable and not fun except in very, very niche and specific situations. I think regardless of what ZoS thinks that means it has failed. If they think that everything is fine and dandy then alright, sure. At least say something about it, then. Say that 'while we hear you guys, we like how things are.' at the very least to let us know they've seen our feedback. So, I guess then it comes down to whether they'll admit an obvious failure is a failure or continue to sweep it under the rug out of spite.
Class reps not being allowed to talk about what is going on sounds VERY counterintuitive to what class reps are meant to be. Instead of using them as a way to connect the community with the devs they've prevented them from sharing info with us. Lol.
Let's be honest. The only reason why the "majority of the playerbase says that vampire is unviable and not fun except in very, very niche and specific situations" is because that segment of the playerbase relies on guides to tell them how to meta, and anything out of that, they can't wrap their head in the least bit how it can actually be used through the vast majority of content in the game because it's not what Alcast told them. His videos on the skill line don't even accurately describe how the skills work, and lo-and behold, half the population speaking out against the line don't know how it works either.
Considering that my vampire is a guild tank for vet trials, I don't think that's very "niche" content, so Vampire is plenty viable for anything in the game.
Your guild tank would be 100% better if it were anything other than a vampire and that's a fact. You make it work, cool. But it'd be so much better if you weren't a vampire.
And no, you're choosing to view against the facts. The reason why the majority of the playerbase says it is unviable and not fun except in niche situations is because the skill line is NOT a vampire skill line and generally the line works against a group play style. And the abilities in the skill line are kinda trash in situations that aren't ganking in PvP. The main gripe with people, though, is the fact the line just isn't in sync with what vampires are in the Elder Scrolls world. With what the devs have said 'this is what a vampire is' then proceed to point at the vamp skill line, which is nothing like what they previously said a vampire is, and say 'this is what a vamp is.' It doesn't fit.
Some skills are not vampiric nor do they fit in Elder scrolls. The whole mechanic of vamps having to be at low HP has never been a thing and is not a thing in any vampire clan in the entire universe of Tamriel. That is why people don't like the line. It's so far out of touch with what vampires are in the Elder Scrolls world that it doesn't make the player feel like a vampire.
Not to mention the skills over all just are not fun. I love vampires, if my name was not a given enough, and I absolutely hate the line. Along with most other vampire lovers.Edited by VampireLordLover99 on December 18, 2020 8:01PM3 -
VampireLordLover99✭✭✭✭[Quoted post has been removed.]
What is your fascination with Alcast? You're literally the only person here that has mentioned him.
And cool, you can make it work. Unfortunately, you're not everyone. Just how I can use very niche and borderline underpowered skills in trials too. Does that mean suddenly they're viable? No.
I can take that one support skill that disables arterially shots into trials and just tap it now and then for fun. Does that mean it is viable in that situation? No.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537500/with-the-release-of-6-1-0-the-vampire-skill-line-will-be-an-abject-failure-of-game-design
Recommend reading this thread sometime. The skill line is a failure. Plain and simple, regardless of how and where you can take it. While you say you've been able to take it into trials, I know at least 5 other people that have been benched from their guild trial runs because they are vampires. For every person that says they get this skill line to work in [insert situation here] chances are one of us knows at least triple that number that have had it the opposite way.
You can make mud stick to the wall if you throw it hard enough in some cases. Doesn't mean it isn't mud, though.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on December 18, 2020 8:16PM1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭VampireLordLover99 wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
What is your fascination with Alcast? You're literally the only person here that has mentioned him.
And cool, you can make it work. Unfortunately, you're not everyone. Just how I can use very niche and borderline underpowered skills in trials too. Does that mean suddenly they're viable? No.
I can take that one support skill that disables arterially shots into trials and just tap it now and then for fun. Does that mean it is viable in that situation? No.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537500/with-the-release-of-6-1-0-the-vampire-skill-line-will-be-an-abject-failure-of-game-design
Recommend reading this thread sometime. The skill line is a failure. Plain and simple, regardless of how and where you can take it. While you say you've been able to take it into trials, I know at least 5 other people that have been benched from their guild trial runs because they are vampires. For every person that says they get this skill line to work in [insert situation here] chances are one of us knows at least triple that number that have had it the opposite way.
You can make mud stick to the wall if you throw it hard enough in some cases. Doesn't mean it isn't mud, though.
"Viable" means that it can be used successfully and effectively.
Therefore, if you can take it into a trial and succeed with it, then yes, it is viable by definition.
And you missed the point about Alcast - people only think the Vampire skill line is a "failure" because it isn't an Alcast meta build, because metas are all anyone in this game cares about.0 -
VampireLordLover99✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »VampireLordLover99 wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
What is your fascination with Alcast? You're literally the only person here that has mentioned him.
And cool, you can make it work. Unfortunately, you're not everyone. Just how I can use very niche and borderline underpowered skills in trials too. Does that mean suddenly they're viable? No.
I can take that one support skill that disables arterially shots into trials and just tap it now and then for fun. Does that mean it is viable in that situation? No.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537500/with-the-release-of-6-1-0-the-vampire-skill-line-will-be-an-abject-failure-of-game-design
Recommend reading this thread sometime. The skill line is a failure. Plain and simple, regardless of how and where you can take it. While you say you've been able to take it into trials, I know at least 5 other people that have been benched from their guild trial runs because they are vampires. For every person that says they get this skill line to work in [insert situation here] chances are one of us knows at least triple that number that have had it the opposite way.
You can make mud stick to the wall if you throw it hard enough in some cases. Doesn't mean it isn't mud, though.
"Viable" means that it can be used successfully and effectively.
Therefore, if you can take it into a trial and succeed with it, then yes, it is viable by definition.
And you missed the point about Alcast - people only think the Vampire skill line is a "failure" because it isn't an Alcast meta build, because metas are all anyone in this game cares about.
And you missed the entire point of this thread.
People don't think that vampire is a failure due to Alcast. If you think that, you're putting way too much blind faith in how many people actually know who that guy is.
And again, just because you use something that works for you, doesn't suddenly make it objectively viable for everyone. And I can 100% say with certain you'd be performing better if you weren't a vampire. So, even if it is effective right now with what you're doing, it'd be made even better without having this stain of a skill line on your character. At the end of the day, mud is still mud regardless of how well you can get it to stick with enough forcing.
People are calling the skill line a failure because, as I mentioned in a previous response to you, the design of the skill line is abysmal and does not fit with what the devs say vampires are in Elder scrolls. Not to mention the only use for the skill line is bow ganking in PvP. I personally have literally been kicked from running trials and out of some vet dungeons due to being a vampire. The skill line does not benefit tanks and in fact works against them since if you utilize all skills of the skill line like the devs have intended (you are literally weaker if not using every skill) then you can't be healed in groups.
What's your build for your vampire vet-trial tank then, if you don't mind me asking? Items/skill set up?Edited by VampireLordLover99 on December 18, 2020 10:45PM2 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VampireLordLover99 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »VampireLordLover99 wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
What is your fascination with Alcast? You're literally the only person here that has mentioned him.
And cool, you can make it work. Unfortunately, you're not everyone. Just how I can use very niche and borderline underpowered skills in trials too. Does that mean suddenly they're viable? No.
I can take that one support skill that disables arterially shots into trials and just tap it now and then for fun. Does that mean it is viable in that situation? No.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537500/with-the-release-of-6-1-0-the-vampire-skill-line-will-be-an-abject-failure-of-game-design
Recommend reading this thread sometime. The skill line is a failure. Plain and simple, regardless of how and where you can take it. While you say you've been able to take it into trials, I know at least 5 other people that have been benched from their guild trial runs because they are vampires. For every person that says they get this skill line to work in [insert situation here] chances are one of us knows at least triple that number that have had it the opposite way.
You can make mud stick to the wall if you throw it hard enough in some cases. Doesn't mean it isn't mud, though.
"Viable" means that it can be used successfully and effectively.
Therefore, if you can take it into a trial and succeed with it, then yes, it is viable by definition.
And you missed the point about Alcast - people only think the Vampire skill line is a "failure" because it isn't an Alcast meta build, because metas are all anyone in this game cares about.
And you missed the entire point of this thread.
People don't think that vampire is a failure due to Alcast. If you think that, you're putting way too much blind faith in how many people actually know who that guy is.
And again, just because you use something that works for you, doesn't suddenly make it objectively viable for everyone. And I can 100% say with certain you'd be performing better if you weren't a vampire. So, even if it is effective right now with what you're doing, it'd be made even better without having this stain of a skill line on your character. At the end of the day, mud is still mud regardless of how well you can get it to stick with enough forcing.
People are calling the skill line a failure because, as I mentioned in a previous response to you, the design of the skill line is abysmal and does not fit with what the devs say vampires are in Elder scrolls. Not to mention the only use for the skill line is bow ganking in PvP. I personally have literally been kicked from running trials and out of some vet dungeons due to being a vampire. The skill line does not benefit tanks and in fact works against them since if you utilize all skills of the skill line like the devs have intended (you are literally weaker if not using every skill) then you can't be healed in groups.
What's your build for your vampire vet-trial tank then, if you don't mind me asking? Items/skill set up?
Those bolded statements should say it all. I don't understand why Alcast is even being brought up considering he even lolnoped when the Blood for Blood nerf happened. Just because he doesn't have a build isn't why we see it as a failure. Why we see it as a failure is not just the lore themes aren't making any sense, but mechanically speaking they're a detriment to the group now. Unless your guild is super chill? More often than not, they're going to leave a vampire dead in a fight because they don't want to bother keeping them up. But hey, what do we know? Most of us have just been playing vampires in this game since 2014. We couldn't possibly know what we're talking about.
Edit: There's also something that I forgot to mention - builds don't have to be meta. None of us are wanting vampire to be a meta. There is a clear distinction between those things and conflating the notion that just because Alcast doesn't have a 'meta' build doesn't detract from the fact that the line isn't viable for most scenarios that isn't casual gameplay or niche builds that are only viable to only a handful of individuals. Playstyles aren't universal, which is why many of us couldn't care less if there was an 'Alcast build' out there or not.Edited by Sephyr on December 19, 2020 7:31AM4 -
VampireLordLover99✭✭✭✭VampireLordLover99 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »VampireLordLover99 wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
What is your fascination with Alcast? You're literally the only person here that has mentioned him.
And cool, you can make it work. Unfortunately, you're not everyone. Just how I can use very niche and borderline underpowered skills in trials too. Does that mean suddenly they're viable? No.
I can take that one support skill that disables arterially shots into trials and just tap it now and then for fun. Does that mean it is viable in that situation? No.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537500/with-the-release-of-6-1-0-the-vampire-skill-line-will-be-an-abject-failure-of-game-design
Recommend reading this thread sometime. The skill line is a failure. Plain and simple, regardless of how and where you can take it. While you say you've been able to take it into trials, I know at least 5 other people that have been benched from their guild trial runs because they are vampires. For every person that says they get this skill line to work in [insert situation here] chances are one of us knows at least triple that number that have had it the opposite way.
You can make mud stick to the wall if you throw it hard enough in some cases. Doesn't mean it isn't mud, though.
"Viable" means that it can be used successfully and effectively.
Therefore, if you can take it into a trial and succeed with it, then yes, it is viable by definition.
And you missed the point about Alcast - people only think the Vampire skill line is a "failure" because it isn't an Alcast meta build, because metas are all anyone in this game cares about.
And you missed the entire point of this thread.
People don't think that vampire is a failure due to Alcast. If you think that, you're putting way too much blind faith in how many people actually know who that guy is.
And again, just because you use something that works for you, doesn't suddenly make it objectively viable for everyone. And I can 100% say with certain you'd be performing better if you weren't a vampire. So, even if it is effective right now with what you're doing, it'd be made even better without having this stain of a skill line on your character. At the end of the day, mud is still mud regardless of how well you can get it to stick with enough forcing.
People are calling the skill line a failure because, as I mentioned in a previous response to you, the design of the skill line is abysmal and does not fit with what the devs say vampires are in Elder scrolls. Not to mention the only use for the skill line is bow ganking in PvP. I personally have literally been kicked from running trials and out of some vet dungeons due to being a vampire. The skill line does not benefit tanks and in fact works against them since if you utilize all skills of the skill line like the devs have intended (you are literally weaker if not using every skill) then you can't be healed in groups.
What's your build for your vampire vet-trial tank then, if you don't mind me asking? Items/skill set up?
Those bolded statements should say it all. I don't understand why Alcast is even being brought up considering he even lolnoped when the Blood for Blood nerf happened. Just because he doesn't have a build isn't why we see it as a failure. Why we see it as a failure is not just the lore themes aren't making any sense, but mechanically speaking they're a detriment to the group now. Unless your guild is super chill? More often than not, they're going to leave a vampire dead in a fight because they don't want to bother keeping them up. But hey, what do we know? Most of us have just been playing vampires in this game since 2014. We couldn't possibly know what we're talking about.
@amm7sb14_ESO Good response for you!1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Speaking is silver, silence is gold.
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