Any communication from the devs/class reps or community manager on the failure of the vamp rework?

Khajiitihaswares · December 2020

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Khajiitihaswares wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Much agree but don't expect answers from ZOS, they will stay silent even if it hurts them bad. Communication is not their thing

Pretty much...

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Much agree but don't expect answers from ZOS, they will stay silent even if it hurts them bad. Communication is not their thing

Which is weird because they have a community manager, class reps, and a bunch of forum mods. Yet there's no communication.

I've never seen an MMO that has this little of communication between devs/managers and their community. On a private FORUM nonetheless.

With any hope maybe we'll get some answer eventually.

Sadly those people you mentioned only speak in vagueness. Like missing skill points for bunch people issue. Been a month. No new ETA of that fix.

Crash to Desktop issue. Same thing they sweep it under the rug.

We would be lucky see any communication in this post besides mods deleting threads or posts and saying they did...

Oh don't worry. None of the devs or @ZOS_GinaBruno have acknowledged that the magicka morph of blastbones STILL does not function almost a year after it originally broke.

Yep. Nor they post ETA's on research or work on them as well progress. So it sits on the "We will fix it one day sweep it."

Sephyr · December 2020

God this post hit me so hard in the feels. There's so many things, delicious things, that they could've done to make the line amazing just by basing even just a little from the NPC vamps.

But when you're even missing the previous iteration because certain things really mattered and you didn't feel ignored? It was evident and clear that when @ZOS_GinaBruno didn't even showcase a single ability of the line, nor ask the pertinent developer that was on the stream who worked on the line any of the questions that were not only asked in the relevant threads - it felt as if she was ignoring them.

idk · December 2020

First off the guild reps are not permitted to talk to us about any discussions going on. They are legally forbidden which is why we do not hear from them in an official capacity. Heck, I rarely see the Class Rep tag in the forums anymore.

As for Zos failing, I do not think they agree. Remember, they now have a vision for combat in this game. Something many of us have not agreed with but it is their vision after all.

VampireLordLover99 · December 2020

idk wrote: »

First off the guild reps are not permitted to talk to us about any discussions going on. They are legally forbidden which is why we do not hear from them in an official capacity. Heck, I rarely see the Class Rep tag in the forums anymore.

As for Zos failing, I do not think they agree. Remember, they now have a vision for combat in this game. Something many of us have not agreed with but it is their vision after all.

When the majority of the playerbase says that vampire is unviable and not fun except in very, very niche and specific situations. I think regardless of what ZoS thinks that means it has failed. If they think that everything is fine and dandy then alright, sure. At least say something about it, then. Say that 'while we hear you guys, we like how things are.' at the very least to let us know they've seen our feedback. So, I guess then it comes down to whether they'll admit an obvious failure is a failure or continue to sweep it under the rug out of spite.

Class reps not being allowed to talk about what is going on sounds VERY counterintuitive to what class reps are meant to be. Instead of using them as a way to connect the community with the devs they've prevented them from sharing info with us. Lol.

Ryuvain · December 2020

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I like a lot about the new vampire but there are many things I dislike about it too.

The feeding reversal was a mistake. Gameplay is a form of storytelling and has a narrative purpose. By letting players become vampires, you give people access to experience what it's like to be a vampire in the Elder Scrolls universe. The feeding reversal makes it so that you do not get to experience what it's like to be a vampire, but rather a very specific brand of vampire. Now that was the case in previous games too, but not to such a drastic extend. Mechanically it rarely mattered if you are from the Berne clan or a Volkihar. Lamae's clan functions fundamentally different from all the others because of her experiments! Some people prefer it that way, and they are free to do so, but enforcing a niche to become the mainstream is kind of defeating the narrative purpose that gameplay serves. Any future update to vampirism should allow us to make a choice if we want to be a standard vampire or one of Lamae's guinea pigs.

Furthermore it is a pain to switch between the vampire stages because there are no ways of lowering your stage without Bloody Mara and when you are stage 4 and can't interact with NPCs you need to wait or waste a skill point. In the old system you could feed to lower your stage and use vampire skills to increase your stage. I get why this wouldn't work for the new system, but the stages were a lot easier to manage before.

The stages of vampirism are too binary for what should have been a quarternary system.
Vampires get all the benefits to vampirsm at advanced stages but only little benefits at stage one, yet all of the drawbacks are already present at the first stage. This makes Stage 1 undesirable but the drawbacks without the boni of the late stages are not worth it, so you either go all the way to stage 4, or you get yourself cured. Stage 1 vampires should get no drawbacks aside from additional fire damage taken, but no further benefits aside from access to the passives and skills. That allows people to be a vampire for roleplaying purposes without damaging their effectiveness in any other content. Starting at Stage 2, the weakness to fire should become progressively worse, just like now, but instead of skill cost increase, vampire skill cost reduction and health regeneration reduction vampires should get a penalty to healing received from non-vampire abilities.
Whether Health regeneration should be put to 0 or actually increased is up to debate. There are good arguements for either side. Perhaps it should be put to 0 out of combat, but jump up whenever you've dealt damage?
As for the passives, Strike from the Shadows should be active at stage 1 and scale with your stage, either in duration or amount of weapon/spell damage granted. Unnatural Movement should also scale, allowing you to become invisible after sprinting for 12/9/6/3 seconds depending on stage. These little changes already dramatically change the vampire experience for the better and help to distinguish your build from its mortal counterpart without impacting its effectiveness.

There is more to be said about the active abilities than I have the time for right now, so I might add something later. I just find it a criminal offense that vampires do not get to apply "major lifesteal" anywhere on their kit and that they only heal from damage inflicted when using ring of the pale order or activate their ultimate.

Vampire is designed to be its own class instead of being a suplement to it.
The cost increase to your regular skills is the biggest thing that's holding vampirism back. I get why becoming a vampire would make me a worse Templar but there is absolutely no reason it would make me a worse necromancer. Why does my necromancy get more difficult if I want to be a vampire? There are plenty of great vampire necromancers around.
Vampirism is supposed to add a twist to each class, instead what we get is that you have to design a vampire build and use as many of the vampire skills as possible to be efficient as a vampire. That makes absolutely no sense and makes all vampire builds feel the same. While this design makes sense for the werewolf transformation and would make sense for a vampire lord transformation in the style of the werewolf, it doesn't for your average untransformed vampire. I get why we cannot let vampirism make your average skills cheaper anymore, but making them more expensive is just wrong.

I do agree with most of what you said, but your changes to passives and stages would break balance again.

The scaling passives with no cost increase downside sound amazing, but at that point why would anyone NOT be a vampire? You get all passives and skills at level 1. Fire damage doesn't exist in all content.

Originally I just wanted to make a quick post, but it just kept growing. I'll have to come back again to look at the balance of my ramblings. The reduction to healing received can make a difference in some content though, so perhaps it should be there from the start? For example you wouldn't want your vampire to do tombs in Lokkestiiz due to that. But compared to how it was before the rework, vampire was free stats. With my suggestions it only offers niche boni at stage 1 but also no downsides, unless you plan on using the skills, in which case it's still awesome. I feel that's still better than vampire being must have. That way the only reason it could ever be a "must have" is if one of the skills was broken and overpowered.

The main problem is that ANY advantage no matter how small or niche makes vampire a must have. NBs and a lot of pvpers take vamp for instant sneak in cyro even now. Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Eiregirl · December 2020

Scardan wrote: »

IMHO a vampire (and a werewolf) should be presented in the game as a class and the prologue for them should tell how you got to such a life, then they will have three branches of skills like everyone else and on this one could build a good vampire gameplay not spoiling the original character class. People would play pure vampires and pure werewolves and feel like they are, and not someone in between.

I like my vamps but I like the idea of a vampire class instead of just a skill line.

Vevvev · December 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Ryuvain · December 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Yep, I pvp and duel a lot. So when vamp ult happens the fight is probably over. Full heal that's not reduced by anything along with lifesteal on everything and a power boost.

People don't think being a level 1 vamp is worth it for all that, mist form, and sneak passives? At least in pvp.

Think most dont use scion only because they heard its bad without even trying it.

Vevvev · December 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Yep, I pvp and duel a lot. So when vamp ult happens the fight is probably over. Full heal that's not reduced by anything along with lifesteal on everything and a power boost.

People don't think being a level 1 vamp is worth it for all that, mist form, and sneak passives? At least in pvp.

I duel and PVP a lot as well and when I go vampire I spend a lot of time trying to actually get into the Scion form, or at the very least hold onto it. As you can imagine that means I shoot myself in the foot and go stages 3-4 so the ult's cost is somewhere between 282-254 instead of the rediculous 314 ult for stage 1.

I remember on the Greymoor PTS before the rebalance that everyone both loved and hated one of my friends got the vampire ultimate down to I think 160. Fighting him as you can imagine was a nightmare and he even used Exhilarating Drain to get back into the form quickly. I bashed him in the face of course for using such a terrible skill, but the ult he was getting was a problem...

Ryuvain · December 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Yep, I pvp and duel a lot. So when vamp ult happens the fight is probably over. Full heal that's not reduced by anything along with lifesteal on everything and a power boost.

People don't think being a level 1 vamp is worth it for all that, mist form, and sneak passives? At least in pvp.

I duel and PVP a lot as well and when I go vampire I spend a lot of time trying to actually get into the Scion form, or at the very least hold onto it. As you can imagine that means I shoot myself in the foot and go stages 3-4 so the ult's cost is somewhere between 282-254 instead of the rediculous 314 ult for stage 1.

I remember on the Greymoor PTS before the rebalance that everyone both loved and hated one of my friends got the vampire ultimate down to I think 160. Fighting him as you can imagine was a nightmare and he even used Exhilarating Drain to get back into the form quickly. I bashed him in the face of course for using such a terrible skill, but the ult he was getting was a problem...

I experimented with a build like that. Try vampire lord set, daedric trickery, bloodspawn, s&b heroic slash, decisive weapons, exhilirating drain, and perfect scion. Around 160 scion cost with so much ult gen, gimmicky but very fun.

VampireLordLover99 · December 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Imagine if Blood Scion looked exactly like a vamp lord and had different animations for running? Like when running they hovered a bit and/or flapped their wings. And a dodge roll could be, like, a bat-swarm dash or something.

Katahdin · December 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

The main problem is that ANY advantage no matter how small or niche makes vampire a must have. NBs and a lot of pvpers take vamp for instant sneak in cyro even now. Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

This, before the change, being a vamp was required for everything.

Want to play a tank? Had to be a vamp
Want to be healer? Had to be a vamp
Want to be DPS, either mag or stam? Had to be a vamp.
I was literally told that if I wasnt a vamp, I couldnt dps enough because of the regen.

I dont want to have to be a vamp, I hate the way they look and I spent way too much time creating my characters to make them look like a walking corpse with bloodshot eyes.

I get people arent happy that they are no longer OP required for everything but vamps shouldn't be OP for everything.

QOL changes or things that the player base dont think make sense, I get, but changing them back to stupid OP have to be a vamp for any role, class, race....no.

Like werewolves they should be a viable option to play if you want a different flavor for that character, but they shouldn't be must have.

VampireLordLover99 · December 2020

Katahdin wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

The main problem is that ANY advantage no matter how small or niche makes vampire a must have. NBs and a lot of pvpers take vamp for instant sneak in cyro even now. Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

This, before the change, being a vamp was required for everything.

Want to play a tank? Had to be a vamp
Want to be healer? Had to be a vamp
Want to be DPS, either mag or stam? Had to be a vamp.
I was literally told that if I wasnt a vamp, I couldnt dps enough because of the regen.

I dont want to have to be a vamp, I hate the way they look and I spent way too much time creating my characters to make them look like a walking corpse with bloodshot eyes.

I get people arent happy that they are no longer OP required for everything but vamps shouldn't be OP for everything.

QOL changes or things that the player base dont think make sense, I get, but changing them back to stupid OP have to be a vamp for any role, class, race....no.

Like werewolves they should be a viable option to play if you want a different flavor for that character, but they shouldn't be must have.

Literally not a single person on this thread is unhappy that they are no longer OP or required for everything. That is not what this thread is about nor the majority issue people take with the new skill line.

The fact of the matter is that the new line IS NOT viable in 90% of situations and truthfully only works on Nightblade in the 10% of situations it is viable in.

People want it to be a viable option to play, much like werewolves. They shouldn't be a must have, you are correct.

Right now it isn't any of those things.

VampireLordLover99 · December 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I like a lot about the new vampire but there are many things I dislike about it too.

The feeding reversal was a mistake. Gameplay is a form of storytelling and has a narrative purpose. By letting players become vampires, you give people access to experience what it's like to be a vampire in the Elder Scrolls universe. The feeding reversal makes it so that you do not get to experience what it's like to be a vampire, but rather a very specific brand of vampire. Now that was the case in previous games too, but not to such a drastic extend. Mechanically it rarely mattered if you are from the Berne clan or a Volkihar. Lamae's clan functions fundamentally different from all the others because of her experiments! Some people prefer it that way, and they are free to do so, but enforcing a niche to become the mainstream is kind of defeating the narrative purpose that gameplay serves. Any future update to vampirism should allow us to make a choice if we want to be a standard vampire or one of Lamae's guinea pigs.

Furthermore it is a pain to switch between the vampire stages because there are no ways of lowering your stage without Bloody Mara and when you are stage 4 and can't interact with NPCs you need to wait or waste a skill point. In the old system you could feed to lower your stage and use vampire skills to increase your stage. I get why this wouldn't work for the new system, but the stages were a lot easier to manage before.

The stages of vampirism are too binary for what should have been a quarternary system.
Vampires get all the benefits to vampirsm at advanced stages but only little benefits at stage one, yet all of the drawbacks are already present at the first stage. This makes Stage 1 undesirable but the drawbacks without the boni of the late stages are not worth it, so you either go all the way to stage 4, or you get yourself cured. Stage 1 vampires should get no drawbacks aside from additional fire damage taken, but no further benefits aside from access to the passives and skills. That allows people to be a vampire for roleplaying purposes without damaging their effectiveness in any other content. Starting at Stage 2, the weakness to fire should become progressively worse, just like now, but instead of skill cost increase, vampire skill cost reduction and health regeneration reduction vampires should get a penalty to healing received from non-vampire abilities.
Whether Health regeneration should be put to 0 or actually increased is up to debate. There are good arguements for either side. Perhaps it should be put to 0 out of combat, but jump up whenever you've dealt damage?
As for the passives, Strike from the Shadows should be active at stage 1 and scale with your stage, either in duration or amount of weapon/spell damage granted. Unnatural Movement should also scale, allowing you to become invisible after sprinting for 12/9/6/3 seconds depending on stage. These little changes already dramatically change the vampire experience for the better and help to distinguish your build from its mortal counterpart without impacting its effectiveness.

There is more to be said about the active abilities than I have the time for right now, so I might add something later. I just find it a criminal offense that vampires do not get to apply "major lifesteal" anywhere on their kit and that they only heal from damage inflicted when using ring of the pale order or activate their ultimate.

Vampire is designed to be its own class instead of being a suplement to it.
The cost increase to your regular skills is the biggest thing that's holding vampirism back. I get why becoming a vampire would make me a worse Templar but there is absolutely no reason it would make me a worse necromancer. Why does my necromancy get more difficult if I want to be a vampire? There are plenty of great vampire necromancers around.
Vampirism is supposed to add a twist to each class, instead what we get is that you have to design a vampire build and use as many of the vampire skills as possible to be efficient as a vampire. That makes absolutely no sense and makes all vampire builds feel the same. While this design makes sense for the werewolf transformation and would make sense for a vampire lord transformation in the style of the werewolf, it doesn't for your average untransformed vampire. I get why we cannot let vampirism make your average skills cheaper anymore, but making them more expensive is just wrong.

I do agree with most of what you said, but your changes to passives and stages would break balance again.

The scaling passives with no cost increase downside sound amazing, but at that point why would anyone NOT be a vampire? You get all passives and skills at level 1. Fire damage doesn't exist in all content.

Originally I just wanted to make a quick post, but it just kept growing. I'll have to come back again to look at the balance of my ramblings. The reduction to healing received can make a difference in some content though, so perhaps it should be there from the start? For example you wouldn't want your vampire to do tombs in Lokkestiiz due to that. But compared to how it was before the rework, vampire was free stats. With my suggestions it only offers niche boni at stage 1 but also no downsides, unless you plan on using the skills, in which case it's still awesome. I feel that's still better than vampire being must have. That way the only reason it could ever be a "must have" is if one of the skills was broken and overpowered.

The main problem is that ANY advantage no matter how small or niche makes vampire a must have. NBs and a lot of pvpers take vamp for instant sneak in cyro even now. Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

The solution here would have been to make them way more transformation reliant.

Give them Vampiric Drain and Mist Form outside of the ultimate. Lock the other three abilities behind the ultimate along with designing most passives to function while in the form. Sure, have a couple that work outside of it, but keep the big-stuff for the in-form.

That way it follows the same design path as Werewolf whilst also being unique in that it offers two weaker versions of the skills outside of the form. (In form Vampiric Drain and Mist Form would more than likely be stronger/act different than their out-of-form counter parts.)

Obviously, if this were to happen ideally the other three abilities would not be Blood Frezny, Eviscerate, or Mesmerize. We'd have vampire-lord themed abilities.

Josira · December 2020

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Imagine if Blood Scion looked exactly like a vamp lord and had different animations for running? Like when running they hovered a bit and/or flapped their wings. And a dodge roll could be, like, a bat-swarm dash or something.

Imagine if Blood Scion had effort put into the art and/or mechanical design?
Sorry im incredibly salty about how the revamp happened.

VampireLordLover99 · December 2020

Josira wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Imagine if Blood Scion looked exactly like a vamp lord and had different animations for running? Like when running they hovered a bit and/or flapped their wings. And a dodge roll could be, like, a bat-swarm dash or something.

Imagine if Blood Scion had effort put into the art and/or mechanical design?
Sorry im incredibly salty about how the revamp happened.

TRUEEEEE.

Imagine if it wasn't literally just a dollar store version of vamp lord and a copy-cat of Bone Goliath.

Jaraal · December 2020

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

When the majority of the playerbase says that vampire is unviable and not fun except in very, very niche and specific situations. I think regardless of what ZoS thinks that means it has failed.

How the player base feels about something has never been a factor for them. It's all about spreadsheet theorycrafting, put it on test, ignore feedback and bug reports, and send it to live.

The majority of players didn't want them to kill Bosmer lore for some unwanted PvP only "skill". The majority of players didn't want their Rapids taken away for no good reason. The majority of players didn't want ally aoe buffs and heals changed to group only, while still leaving ungrouped aoe damage alone.

Folks need to stop trying to make sense of things. It only leads to confusion and frustration.

idk · December 2020

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

First off the guild reps are not permitted to talk to us about any discussions going on. They are legally forbidden which is why we do not hear from them in an official capacity. Heck, I rarely see the Class Rep tag in the forums anymore.

As for Zos failing, I do not think they agree. Remember, they now have a vision for combat in this game. Something many of us have not agreed with but it is their vision after all.

When the majority of the playerbase says that vampire is unviable and not fun except in very, very niche and specific situations. I think regardless of what ZoS thinks that means it has failed. If they think that everything is fine and dandy then alright, sure. At least say something about it, then. Say that 'while we hear you guys, we like how things are.' at the very least to let us know they've seen our feedback. So, I guess then it comes down to whether they'll admit an obvious failure is a failure or continue to sweep it under the rug out of spite.

Class reps not being allowed to talk about what is going on sounds VERY counterintuitive to what class reps are meant to be. Instead of using them as a way to connect the community with the devs they've prevented them from sharing info with us. Lol.

1. That is an opinion and as I said, it seems Zos has a different opinion. The real issue is they do not communicate well what their vision is though I really question if they are capable of developing the vision they claim to have come up with.

I am not arguing that I like or agree with the changes so do not bother trying to climb that tree.

2. And I agree, it is counterintuitive that communication about the class reps had ceased but they are under an NDA and have referred to that as to why they cannot discuss much. Many of us consider the program irrelevant for the obvious reason that they are so silent.

Heck, the last list of people in the group is 18 months old. That is longer than any of the groups have remained completely intact before then. So we really do not know who all the active class reps are outside of an occasional post one makes in the forums, and that is rare.

Josira · December 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Yep, I pvp and duel a lot. So when vamp ult happens the fight is probably over. Full heal that's not reduced by anything along with lifesteal on everything and a power boost.

People don't think being a level 1 vamp is worth it for all that, mist form, and sneak passives? At least in pvp.

Think most dont use scion only because they heard its bad without even trying it.

Oh no Ive used it...Its an eyesore

VampireLordLover99 · December 2020

Josira wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Yep, I pvp and duel a lot. So when vamp ult happens the fight is probably over. Full heal that's not reduced by anything along with lifesteal on everything and a power boost.

People don't think being a level 1 vamp is worth it for all that, mist form, and sneak passives? At least in pvp.

Think most dont use scion only because they heard its bad without even trying it.

Oh no Ive used it...Its an eyesore

It's like watching a chicken with no wings flail around.

It's hideous when there's a fully complete chicken already in the game.

Ryuvain · December 2020

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Josira wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Not to mention bat scion and mist form are still great moves. You dont fight vamp ults at all unless you want to die.

Agreed, unless your foe has a terrible build compared to your own fighting a Blood Scion can be downright terrifying. Swarming Scion even more so. The offensive power that form provides for both stam and mag builds is impressive to stay the least, and the counter seems to be kite it till its timer runs out.

Wish its appearance actually looked more vampiric as it feels like you're going up against a Xivkyn than a vampire... Heck the Xivkyn have a better skin care plan.

Yep, I pvp and duel a lot. So when vamp ult happens the fight is probably over. Full heal that's not reduced by anything along with lifesteal on everything and a power boost.

People don't think being a level 1 vamp is worth it for all that, mist form, and sneak passives? At least in pvp.

Think most dont use scion only because they heard its bad without even trying it.

Oh no Ive used it...Its an eyesore

It's like watching a chicken with no wings flail around.

It's hideous when there's a fully complete chicken already in the game.

I never said that I liked the look. But it's strong nonetheless. Still want vampire lord and behemoth to be playable, but I won't count on being heard.

Xebov · December 2020

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Like, just anything at all would be fine. Just something to acknowledge the overwhelming majority of players that don't like the line and the fact it's so far away from what a vampire is in Elder Scrolls we don't share a play style at all similar to that of NPCs. Even if they say they're fine with how it currently is.

No matter what they would say it would just spark giant discussions. Players would start all over again on how they dont agree and how they could make it better and then present their half cooked ideas again without realizing that most of them are not able to provide any solutions that would work without having gigantic loopholes.

What everyone has to realize by now is that its nearly impossible to balance Vampire in a way that it becomes a sidegrade. It will always tip to one side. It either is powerful enought to be an option, leading to mass use, or it will be to weak resulting in players mass droping it.

MinnesotaKid · December 2020

I have to agree with those saying vamp should be it's own class, not just a skill line. That could have been awesome.
I used to have 14 toons w/ vamp, now I have 5, all NB who only have it for the dark stalker passive.... such a waste.

VampireLordLover99 · December 2020

Xebov wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Like, just anything at all would be fine. Just something to acknowledge the overwhelming majority of players that don't like the line and the fact it's so far away from what a vampire is in Elder Scrolls we don't share a play style at all similar to that of NPCs. Even if they say they're fine with how it currently is.

No matter what they would say it would just spark giant discussions. Players would start all over again on how they dont agree and how they could make it better and then present their half cooked ideas again without realizing that most of them are not able to provide any solutions that would work without having gigantic loopholes.

What everyone has to realize by now is that its nearly impossible to balance Vampire in a way that it becomes a sidegrade. It will always tip to one side. It either is powerful enought to be an option, leading to mass use, or it will be to weak resulting in players mass droping it.

Nope, there is a way to make vampire perfectly balanced that apparently you nor the devs have not considered.

Literally just make it transformation focused like werewolf. Have 2 basic abilities outside the form, maybe a couple passives, but have everything else be in form.

That's the issue and why it'll always be either OP or too weak.

All of this in combination with mortals not having a mortal only line. If there were a mortal only line they could do whatever the heck they want with vamps and it'd be balanced because there would be a clear counter to both vamps and werewolves.

VampireLordLover99 · December 2020

MinnesotaKid wrote: »

I have to agree with those saying vamp should be it's own class, not just a skill line. That could have been awesome.
I used to have 14 toons w/ vamp, now I have 5, all NB who only have it for the dark stalker passive.... such a waste.

I have to agree here too. Imagine a world where this base form vampirism and werewolf are in the game for other classes still.

But there's the option to pick werewolf or vampire on the class start screen and have it be your entire class. It'd be a stronger, more potent form of vampirism and werewolf. Vampires would more than likely be a vamp lord and werewolves would probably have access to behemoth and even some spells can cast in their form. Both would offer a lot of varying play styles.

Vevvev · December 2020

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Like, just anything at all would be fine. Just something to acknowledge the overwhelming majority of players that don't like the line and the fact it's so far away from what a vampire is in Elder Scrolls we don't share a play style at all similar to that of NPCs. Even if they say they're fine with how it currently is.

No matter what they would say it would just spark giant discussions. Players would start all over again on how they dont agree and how they could make it better and then present their half cooked ideas again without realizing that most of them are not able to provide any solutions that would work without having gigantic loopholes.

What everyone has to realize by now is that its nearly impossible to balance Vampire in a way that it becomes a sidegrade. It will always tip to one side. It either is powerful enought to be an option, leading to mass use, or it will be to weak resulting in players mass droping it.

Nope, there is a way to make vampire perfectly balanced that apparently you nor the devs have not considered.

Literally just make it transformation focused like werewolf. Have 2 basic abilities outside the form, maybe a couple passives, but have everything else be in form.

That's the issue and why it'll always be either OP or too weak.

All of this in combination with mortals not having a mortal only line. If there were a mortal only line they could do whatever the heck they want with vamps and it'd be balanced because there would be a clear counter to both vamps and werewolves.

Could always add a Meridian skill line focused on purging the world of undead. Similar to Fighter's Guild but with stam and mag options. Due to Meridia's hatred of undead it could easily be mortal only and fit lore.

amm7sb14_ESO · December 2020

"Just because you like it and make it work doesn't mean that it can't be improved"

Yes. True. As much as I like it, I could definitely accept some improvements to it.

And just because you don't like it and can't figure out how to make it work doesn't mean it's a "failure".

amm7sb14_ESO · December 2020

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

Who will slot vampire ultimate?

Why dev create something no people interested?

A vampire.
There are people interested.
Vampire can be interesting strong solo build.

I love that vampire's only use is being an "interesting" solo build. Even though vampires are notorious for grouping and working in clans within ESO. And the ultimate is still a re skin of an existing ability. Not saying it's trash, but saying the creativity and design behind such an ability is god awful.

There's plenty of people interested in an actual vampire skill line. This just ain't it.

I use my vampire as a guild trial tank, so I definitely get use out of my vampire in group content.

amm7sb14_ESO · December 2020

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

First off the guild reps are not permitted to talk to us about any discussions going on. They are legally forbidden which is why we do not hear from them in an official capacity. Heck, I rarely see the Class Rep tag in the forums anymore.

As for Zos failing, I do not think they agree. Remember, they now have a vision for combat in this game. Something many of us have not agreed with but it is their vision after all.

When the majority of the playerbase says that vampire is unviable and not fun except in very, very niche and specific situations. I think regardless of what ZoS thinks that means it has failed. If they think that everything is fine and dandy then alright, sure. At least say something about it, then. Say that 'while we hear you guys, we like how things are.' at the very least to let us know they've seen our feedback. So, I guess then it comes down to whether they'll admit an obvious failure is a failure or continue to sweep it under the rug out of spite.

Class reps not being allowed to talk about what is going on sounds VERY counterintuitive to what class reps are meant to be. Instead of using them as a way to connect the community with the devs they've prevented them from sharing info with us. Lol.

Let's be honest. The only reason why the "majority of the playerbase says that vampire is unviable and not fun except in very, very niche and specific situations" is because that segment of the playerbase relies on guides to tell them how to meta, and anything out of that, they can't wrap their head in the least bit how it can actually be used through the vast majority of content in the game because it's not what Alcast told them. His videos on the skill line don't even accurately describe how the skills work, and lo-and behold, half the population speaking out against the line don't know how it works either.

Considering that my vampire is a guild tank for vet trials, I don't think that's very "niche" content, so Vampire is plenty viable for anything in the game.

Iccotak · December 2020

My biggest pet peeve is the fact that it is basically a necromancer Bone Goliath skin.

The blood Sion should have its own animations