Either ban the use of TTC/MM outside of guilds, or allow everyone to sell things on the traders.

S_Tanner · December 2020

It's ok ,since all of you condone this tripe I managed to come up with a temporary work around for stopping the crap going on. and it's been working so far.

As long as people want to have flagrant disregard for people, scam and rip people off by not using it when someone prices something lower but are quick to use it when someone does something higher and shove TTC and MM into zone chat and force prices created by guilds, then by all means feel free,

but you all have absolutely no business complaining about anything.

VaranisArano · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

It's ok ,since all of you condone this tripe I managed to come up with a temporary work around for stopping the crap going on. and it's been working so far.

As long as people want to have flagrant disregard for people, scam and rip people off by not using it when someone prices something lower but are quick to use it when someone does something higher and shove TTC and MM into zone chat and force prices created by guilds, then by all means feel free,

but you all have absolutely no business complaining about anything.

Have you considered that many people do post MM/TTC when players try to buy items for far below their guild trader value?

For example, it's fairly common to see players try to buy crafting materials for 60% or so of their selling value on a guild trader from new players in starter zones.

Posting the MM/TTC prices helps clue players in to the value of those items if they join a guild or even if they choose to sell it themselves in zone chat.

If you only look at one aspect of people posting when you try to sell, I think you miss the main way that MM/TTC is used to combat players who would scam or rip off others on the buying end.

nukk3r · December 2020

RodneyRegis wrote: »

Slightly off-topic, but probably some avid MM/ATT users here.

Why is my MM only picking up a fraction of my sales? Do I need it running on evey character? I end to just put it on my trader/farmer alt as I don't want it using up resources on PVP/trial characters. Maybe 1 in 20 sales is picked up.

You need to load sales data manually because it takes a long time to get everything automatically (up to 8 hours in some cases). Go to the Sales in Guild History tab and press E key for a minute or two to load more of the sales info. MM 3.0 even has a progress bar to indicate how much data you have since the last synchronization.

S_Tanner · December 2020

Ok everyone needs to stop using the word Scamming incorrectly.

Scam literally means to get as much out of someone as you can. That means if I post something for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, and you link MM and TTC to show a 30k Price you just screwed a potential buyer out of an item, not too mention violated section 2.3 of the code of conduct by purposely and maliciously using an add on to screw with my ability to sell something. So you can take them for more later on thus you're scamming them not me.

Using addons to purposely interfere with my ability to sell something is not only harassment, but also now undermining my game play by preventing me from being able to enjoy my game my way.

And don't try to say you're trying to stop scamming as some excuse because you're not, you're willfully and maliciously using the add on to try to screw me over then trying to make an excuse to hide that.

Furthermore who the hell are any of you to be saying the going rate...funny how everyone in this thread if you look back all said players don't make the prices, yet you constantly dictate them when someone is trying to make a sale.

MKintr · December 2020

Wow, 5 Pages in 3 hours.

If it wasn't mentioned before: those add-ons only collect sales data from the guilds you are a member in. If your trader is in a bad spot, those data may not be very useful. So the benefits of those add-ons are a bit limited.

Now waiting for zos to finally close this^^

zvavi · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

Ok everyone needs to stop using the word Scamming incorrectly.

Scam literally means to get as much out of someone as you can. That means if I post something for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, and you link MM and TTC to show a 30k Price you just screwed a potential buyer out of an item, not too mention violated section 2.3 of the code of conduct by purposely and maliciously using an add on to screw with my ability to sell something. So you can take them for more later on thus you're scamming them not me.

Using addons to purposely interfere with my ability to sell something is not only harassment, but also now undermining my game play by preventing me from being able to enjoy my game my way.

And don't try to say you're trying to stop scamming as some excuse because you're not, you're willfully and maliciously using the add on to try to screw me over then trying to make an excuse to hide that.

Furthermore who the hell are any of you to be saying the going rate...funny how everyone in this thread if you look back all said players don't make the prices, yet you constantly dictate them when someone is trying to make a sale.

Lol. If you are trying to make an unfair trade, it is a scam to one of the parties, we ain't forcing any prices, just bringing information to the table. Both buyers and sellers have a choice to use, or not use that information. "Stopping someone from being scammed is harassing the scammer." Made my day.

carlos424 · December 2020

Basically, you want to be able to make money from others players, (buy low and sell high), and want to keep your customers uninformed about the market.
All the other talk about guilds setting prices, etc., is just smoke screens.

S_Tanner · December 2020

MKintr wrote: »

Wow, 5 Pages in 3 hours.

If it wasn't mentioned before: those add-ons only collect sales data from the guilds you are a member in. If your trader is in a bad spot, those data may not be very useful. So the benefits of those add-ons are a bit limited.

Except that isn't relevant because It's still collecting and using GUILD data,instead of all data.

Also Everyone in this thread makes mention players do not do the pricing, it's in just about everyone's reply in this thread.

The problem with that is all o fyou constantly dictate a price about something someone is selling in chat. If players don't dictate prices as you say, then cannot be dictating prices in chat..

Also I find this extremely hypocritical..I actually have at least 50 instances of the following incident happen:

I post something to buy for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, you all would link MM and TTC as fast as you could to show a 30k, But no one says anything if the situation was the same pricing but now I'm offering to sell that same item for 2k. not a single person would even link TTC or MM, in fact none of you Would even say anything.

Jeremy · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

Ok people still aren't getting ti so let me simplify it even further.

Until everyone is allowed to post on the guild trader then both, MM and TTC are not valid, and do not apply to anyone not in a guild, and when that person is not at a guild trader.

People can't use guild traders to sell, then no one gets to use TTC and MM on those players. Especially in Zone chat.

The problem isn't MM and TTC, the problem is people forcing TTC and MM onto people where and when it doesn't belong.

TamrielTradeCentre is the crutch that makes this game's cumbersome Guild Trader system functional. Without it, one would be forced to weather dozens of load screens and waypoints in search of items and/or reasonable deals with no guarantee their massive time investment would pay off. So if you got rid of it, the large trading guilds would essentially run the market and control pricing; they would command the more popular trading hubs; they would dominate.

This game's economy isn't a free market. You're correct about that. It's basically a collection of isolated stores and cartels using addons to try and maintain dominance over the other. So don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting it's an ideal circumstance. It's a dysfunctional system held together through makeshift third party programs. But the game is better off with TamrielTradeCentre rather than without it. Because it at least allows smaller guilds to become fodder for the large cartels and make a little money.

I believe your argument would be more effective if it focused at the core of the problem, which is to say the guild trader system itself. When you target programs like TamrielTradeCentre the people are going to defend it with their lives since it's the one thing allowing them to reasonably buy and/or sell things on this game.

Scardan · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

Ok everyone needs to stop using the word Scamming incorrectly.

Scam literally means to get as much out of someone as you can. That means if I post something for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, and you link MM and TTC to show a 30k Price you just screwed a potential buyer out of an item, not too mention violated section 2.3 of the code of conduct by purposely and maliciously using an add on to screw with my ability to sell something. So you can take them for more later on thus you're scamming them not me.

If you post item that costs 2k and try to sell it for 30k, or you try to buy a 30k item for 2k from unespirienced people, then you are scamming people and everyone in this topic described such a situation as scamming and therefore everybody here used this word cor-rect-ly.

S_Tanner · December 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Lol. If you are trying to make an unfair trade, it is a scam to one of the parties, we ain't forcing any prices, just bringing information to the table.

That is the very definition of scamming..not too mention you claim that is the case while doing this:

If I post something to buy for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, you all would link MM and TTC as fast as you could to show a 30k, But no one says anything if the situation was the same pricing but now I'm offering to sell that same item for 2k. not a single person would even link TTC or MM, in fact none of you Would even say anything.

I have at least 150 documented cases of people doing that.

Hämähäkki · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

I post something to buy for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, you all would link MM and TTC as fast as you could to show a 30k, But no one says anything if the situation was the same pricing but now I'm offering to sell that same item for 2k. not a single person would even link TTC or MM, in fact none of you Would even say anything.

First one is called scamming, second one would be just stupid.

Nairinhe · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

That means if I post something for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, and you link MM and TTC to show a 30k Price you just screwed a potential buyer out of an item,

How exactly? How does pointing out that your price is very low stop you from selling and someone else from buying? I could understand it if your price were too high, but this makes me think that you got tangled in your arguing for the sake of arguing.

S_Tanner · December 2020

Scardan wrote: »

S_Tanner wrote: »

Ok everyone needs to stop using the word Scamming incorrectly.

Scam literally means to get as much out of someone as you can. That means if I post something for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, and you link MM and TTC to show a 30k Price you just screwed a potential buyer out of an item, not too mention violated section 2.3 of the code of conduct by purposely and maliciously using an add on to screw with my ability to sell something. So you can take them for more later on thus you're scamming them not me.

You are seriously telling us, that if you post something to sell for 2k and somebody informs people that an item costs 30k people would no run to you to buy this item from you and save 28k gold?

If you post item that costs 2k and try to sell it for 30k, then you are scamming people and everyone in this topic described such a situation as scamming and therefore everybody here used this word correctly.

I have over 150 documented cases of this exact thing happening:

I post something to buy for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, you all pretty much linked MM and TTC as fast as you could at some points spamming the chat from at least 6 different people with TTC and MM, to show a 30k.

Buit not a single one of you said anything at all and didn't even bother with MM and TTC when I offering to sell that same item for 2k. not a single person.

I actually started posting things on purpose just to see what you people would do, and sure enough without fail literally every single time every one of you had no problems trying to buy it from me for 2k, but had serious problems selling it for the same price I was offering or whenever I offered to buy it from someone you al made sure you were right there ready to post MM and TTC..

IN each case MM was instantly linked and at least 20 people in chat harped on me for trying to buy it for 2 k, but not a single one of you said anything about it at all and didn't even post MM or TTC when I offered it for that price.

Not a single one of you stopped me for offering, but when it came for me to buy it from people...oh no..can't have that

LalMirchi · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Lol. If you are trying to make an unfair trade, it is a scam to one of the parties, we ain't forcing any prices, just bringing information to the table.

That is the very definition of scamming..not too mention you claim that is the case while doing this:

If I post something to buy for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, you all would link MM and TTC as fast as you could to show a 30k, But no one says anything if the situation was the same pricing but now I'm offering to sell that same item for 2k. not a single person would even link TTC or MM, in fact none of you Would even say anything.

I have at least 150 documented cases of people doing that.

Some evidence of these "150 documented cases" would be helpful.

VaranisArano · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

Ok everyone needs to stop using the word Scamming incorrectly.

Scam literally means to get as much out of someone as you can. That means if I post something for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, and you link MM and TTC to show a 30k Price you just screwed a potential buyer out of an item, not too mention violated section 2.3 of the code of conduct by purposely and maliciously using an add on to screw with my ability to sell something. So you can take them for more later on thus you're scamming them not me.

Using addons to purposely interfere with my ability to sell something is not only harassment, but also now undermining my game play by preventing me from being able to enjoy my game my way.

And don't try to say you're trying to stop scamming as some excuse because you're not, you're willfully and maliciously using the add on to try to screw me over then trying to make an excuse to hide that.

Furthermore who the hell are any of you to be saying the going rate...funny how everyone in this thread if you look back all said players don't make the prices, yet you constantly dictate them when someone is trying to make a sale.

Wait, is it...

"WTS [Opal fancy helmet] for 2k"

"Hey, you know that's selling on guild traders for 20k, right?"

"What? WTS [Opal fancy helmet] for 20k! You awful person, you just used an addon to screw someone out of a fantastic deal!"

Or is it...

" WTS [Opal fancy helmet] for 2k"

"Really? Great deal, I'll take it."

"You hypocrite! Why didn't you tell me I could sell it for 20k on a guild trader?!"

To say nothing of the ridiculousness that is:

"WTS [Opal fancy helmet] for 100k"

"Hey, you know its selling on guild traders for around 20k, right?"

"My guilds sell it for 25k ish"

"Head over to a guild trader, the range of reasonable prices is 18k to 30k."

"You awful people are harassing me! You are interfering with my ability to sell! How dare you inform people they can buy what I'm selling for cheaper from someone else? I'm reporting you!"

Buddy, you can sell your items for whatever you want, but you aren't entitled to be free from disagreement over what those items are selling for.

Wolfkeks · December 2020

Feel free to post your documented cases.

S_Tanner · December 2020

Scardan wrote: »

S_Tanner wrote: »

Ok everyone needs to stop using the word Scamming incorrectly.

Scam literally means to get as much out of someone as you can. That means if I post something for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, and you link MM and TTC to show a 30k Price you just screwed a potential buyer out of an item, not too mention violated section 2.3 of the code of conduct by purposely and maliciously using an add on to screw with my ability to sell something. So you can take them for more later on thus you're scamming them not me.

You are seriously telling us, that if you post something to sell for 2k and somebody informs people that an item costs 30k people would no run to you to buy this item from you and save 28k gold?

If you post item that costs 2k and try to sell it for 30k, then you are scamming people and everyone in this topic described such a situation as scamming and therefore everybody here used this word correctly.

I have over 150 documented cases of this exact thing happening:

I post something to buy for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, you all pretty much linked MM and TTC as fast as you could at some points spamming the chat from at least 6 different people with TTC and MM, to show a 30k.

Buit not a single one of you said anything at all and didn't even bother with MM and TTC when I offering to sell that same item for 2k. not a single person.

I actually started posting things on purpose just to see what you people would do, and sure enough without fail literally every single time every one of you had no problems trying to buy it from me for 2k, but had serious problems selling it for the same price I was offering or whenever I offered to buy it from someone you al made sure you were right there ready to post MM and TTC..

IN each case MM was instantly linked and at least 20 people in chat harped on me for trying to buy it for 2 k, but not a single one of you said anything about it at all and didn't even post MM or TTC when I offered it for that price.

Not a single one of you stopped me for offering, but when it came for me to buy it from people...oh no..can't have that

DT-ARR · December 2020

PS4 doesn’t have these add-ons. Wish they did though, would make my life a ton easier.

Scardan · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

I post something to buy for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, you all would link MM and TTC as fast as you could to show a 30k

Because you maybe try to ripp off uninformed people. I can imagine that you would re-sell that item for TTC price after, dont you?

S_Tanner wrote: »

now I'm offering to sell that same item for 2k. not a single person would even link TTC or MM, in fact none of you Would even say anything.

The seller is usually familiar with the average price of their product, so there is no point in giving you the price again. Unless you can get an advertisement, though for the time when someone compares prices, your goods will already be sold out.
In addition, you could do this at a time when players with addons were not watching the chat. You never know, you cannot accuse everyone of hypocrisy without knowing the facts.

S_Tanner · December 2020

The replies people are giving to this are idiotic.. you're first saying you stop scamming, then i expose you all for being hypocrite scammers, then you try justifying it with the crap your spouting off now..

Fact is, I can have a ZoS employee come into the game with me right now and have them watch this exact situation i just described here unfold, and I can do it with any item.

You all would be right there linking mm and TTC and saying crap if I tried to buy something that you think is worth 30k.

BUT If I was selling that same exact item for 2k, Not one of you would say anything or stop me and not one of you would even bother linking mm or TTC.

That is a straight up fact you all do.

hafgood · December 2020

I don't understand what you are saying.

S_Tanner wrote: »

:

If I post something to buy for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, you all would link MM and TTC as fast as you could to show a 30k

So you are complaining that if you offer to buy something for 2k that has a perceived value of 30k no one should be able to point out that the seller can get far based on the current deemed market value?

S_Tanner wrote: »

:
now I'm offering to sell that same item for 2k. not a single person would even link TTC or MM, in fact none of you

The difference is you are selling below market value, you are not scamming anyone unlike when trying to buy from players cheaply. You are either stupid for not researching market value, or looking for a quick sale. Either way that's on you not on TTC

VaranisArano · December 2020

Scardan wrote: »

S_Tanner wrote: »

I post something to buy for 2k that you all somehow think is 30k, you all would link MM and TTC as fast as you could to show a 30k

Because you maybe try to ripp off uninformed people. I can imagine that you would re-sell that item for TTC price after, dont you?

Yep, most of the time I see players offering to buy items for 60% or so of what I can sell them for, I'm looking at someone who wants to buy low and reselling high.

I'll speak up in zone chat because while players can certainly choose to deal with a flipper who offers gold now,, I think they deserve the chance to know they can cut out the middle man and make that profit for themselves.

LalMirchi · December 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

...

I don't doubt that.

This game has a very active cartel community that purposely goes around "flipping" items in order to keep prices high. Normally I would be totally against such market manipulations. But this game has such a cumbersome economic system there is some benefit to it since it enables wayward suppliers to actually make a sale.

Do you have proof of the existence of these "cartels"?

Gundug · December 2020

This is a singularly pointless thread that has propagated only due to the entertainment value given out of arguing with the stubborn and apparently constantly irate original poster.

Disturbed_One · December 2020

OP joined the forums 6 days ago.

Their first 3 threads were locked due to them baiting and antagonizing anybody who didn't explicitly agree with them.

Same thing will happen to this thread.

Final thread is one that is patently false about crown trading being illegal.

OP is clearly just a burner account so they can troll people on the forums.

VaranisArano · December 2020

S_Tanner wrote: »

The replies people are giving to this are idiotic.. you're first saying you stop scamming, then i expose you all for being hypocrite scammers, then you try justifying it with the crap your spouting off now..

Fact is, I can have a ZoS employee come into the game with me right now and have them watch this exact situation i just described here unfold, and I can do it with any item.

You all would be right there linking mm and TTC and saying crap if I tried to buy something that you think is worth 30k.

BUT If I was selling that same exact item for 2k, Not one of you would say anything or stop me and not one of you would even bother linking mm or TTC.

That is a straight up fact you all do.

Hey, when you get that ZOS employee into the game to watch you get harassed by people posting MM/TTC links, can you ask them to wipe out some bot trains while they are on?

VaranisArano · December 2020

Gundug wrote: »

This is a singularly pointless thread that has propagated only due to the entertainment value given out of arguing with the stubborn and apparently constantly irate original poster.

Early morning pre-coffee arguments before the mods come back online and close the drama threads are the best.

They will close it, eventually. But I figure there's usually a good topic at the heart of the drama, so its fun to discuss.

Hämähäkki · December 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

S_Tanner wrote: »

The replies people are giving to this are idiotic.. you're first saying you stop scamming, then i expose you all for being hypocrite scammers, then you try justifying it with the crap your spouting off now..

Fact is, I can have a ZoS employee come into the game with me right now and have them watch this exact situation i just described here unfold, and I can do it with any item.

You all would be right there linking mm and TTC and saying crap if I tried to buy something that you think is worth 30k.

BUT If I was selling that same exact item for 2k, Not one of you would say anything or stop me and not one of you would even bother linking mm or TTC.

That is a straight up fact you all do.

Hey, when you get that ZOS employee into the game to watch you get harassed by people posting MM/TTC links, can you ask them to wipe out some bot trains while they are on?

Oh and maybe they can take a closer look into PvP, it's not working properly. I mean, just if they manage to get there without a dc

Nairinhe · December 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Gundug wrote: »

This is a singularly pointless thread that has propagated only due to the entertainment value given out of arguing with the stubborn and apparently constantly irate original poster.

Early morning pre-coffee arguments before the mods come back online and close the drama threads are the best.

They will close it, eventually. But I figure there's usually a good topic at the heart of the drama, so its fun to discuss.

At the heart of the drama - maybe. At the heart of the circus - not so sure.