Will avoiding proc sets make me a better player?

Mariusghost84 · December 2020

On a scale from 1-4 , where lvl 4 are players like Malcom, istherenoonelese, Kristofer_ESO i concider myself between lvl 2-3 , on my main class.

In your honest opinion, would you say that staying away from proc sets would help out with becoming an even better player in the long run?

Is using proc sets contributing to this fake idea that one actually is good, while the sets are doing a big chunk of the killing for you?

What do you think?

Waffennacht · December 2020

Not really. I dont think using procs will hamper any growth as a player.

In fact, the faster someone feels confident and comfortable the better they get and proc sets help players get there faster.

HalvarIronfist · December 2020

Not really. I main a stamdk and I build off meta and meta builds. What feels fun and effective to me is what I'll play, and I typically build for 1v1 scenarios/duels.

While I do think some proc sets are a bit overtuned, seriously just try focusing a "one button" proc player, they'll die like a overland mob.

Fight an experienced/better player using proc sets and you may have an actual fight yet. Sets hardly determine the skill of an individual player.

gatekeeper13 · December 2020

I dont know who these players you named are but avoiding using proc sets will certainly make you a better player.

Proc sets are "carry sets" and hide your weaknesses. Dont know why some people think it is a matter of skill to kill an enemy player through Crimson 5th bonus or through Syvarra, Unleashed or Venomous dots, it's not.

OlumoGarbag · December 2020

If you can pull of a stat based build in no-cp PvP you are a god.
In CP PvP you don't have to use proc sets and still be near top performance.

Kikazaru · December 2020

Proc sets can push your overall damage efficiency above what any traditional stat dense set can with much less effort.

Edit: Using non proc builds makes it feel more involved because you are 100% reliant on your skills to damage players and not letting damage proc sets -or heal ones for that matter like crimson- do most of the work for you.

Xiomaro · December 2020

Hi Marius

I know you play Stamblade no CP on PC EU and that's pretty relevant. Honestly, if you can keep up with a proc meta with no procs then more power to you but it's an exercise in frustration.

Playing a full proc bow blade is definitely a crutch and would build bad habits. If you were to play BRP bow, Venomous Smite and Syvarra you could just Magnum Shot people from stealth and get plenty of kills but 100% that would make you a worse player over time.

If, on the other hand, you were to add in sets like Vateshran 2h to add some burst to your combos. Or even something a little more "cheesy" like Zaan plus some other DOT, as long as you're still going into melee, landing your combos and doing your general nightblade stuff, you're not going to be a worse player. Yes, you might find some people are easier to kill. Yes, you'll get more hate whispers from baby seals and small scale elitists in Cyrodiil. But when/if the proc meta ends, you won't be a worse player on the other side. You'll just remove the procs, carry on playing the same style and continue to kill people.

If you're watching NA, CP and other platform content creators, take what they say with a pinch of salt. PC EU is a very different meta. My recommendation would be to check out some of the no CP PC EU streamers on Twitch like Decimus and Ethardt. Both of them avoid complete meta builds so maybe that'll suit you.

Mariusghost84 · December 2020

Xiomaro wrote: »

Hi Marius

I know you play Stamblade no CP on PC EU and that's pretty relevant. Honestly, if you can keep up with a proc meta with no procs then more power to you but it's an exercise in frustration.

Playing a full proc bow blade is definitely a crutch and would build bad habits. If you were to play BRP bow, Venomous Smite and Syvarra you could just Magnum Shot people from stealth and get plenty of kills but 100% that would make you a worse player over time.

If, on the other hand, you were to add in sets like Vateshran 2h to add some burst to your combos. Or even something a little more "cheesy" like Zaan plus some other DOT, as long as you're still going into melee, landing your combos and doing your general nightblade stuff, you're not going to be a worse player. Yes, you might find some people are easier to kill. Yes, you'll get more hate whispers from baby seals and small scale elitists in Cyrodiil. But when/if the proc meta ends, you won't be a worse player on the other side. You'll just remove the procs, carry on playing the same style and continue to kill people.

If you're watching NA, CP and other platform content creators, take what they say with a pinch of salt. PC EU is a very different meta. My recommendation would be to check out some of the no CP PC EU streamers on Twitch like Decimus and Ethardt. Both of them avoid complete meta builds so maybe that'll suit you.

Hey Xiomaro

You and a few players like yourself are the reason i continuously strive to get better and a reason i made this thread.

I do play stamblade in noCP. I abandoned Venomous/sheer a while ago and am now running Ashen grip + of fire combo for maximum burst. I dont use snipe, sheer venom or any bow skills. I have bow because i love speedy builds and i roll constantly as a bosmer for that extra speed. I am indeed working hard on my incap + relentless focus combo atm. The reason i put away my dots sets was people were dying when i event wernt hitting them, and indeed i got more kills but it just feels mad off - and i realised my progress would stop and i wouldnt get any better.

I am VERY tempted to put back my dot gear on when i see your stamsorc in BGs though. Its crazy difficult if not impossible to kill you 1vs1 , with my current setup. I am basically 100% depending on landing a incap + relentless on you with a executioner all within 1,5 sec before you streak away and reset.

I didnt know NA/EU meta differed that much tbh, i will definetely check out decimus and Ethardt on youtube! Thanks for the tip.

Really appriciate your input man.

Bergzorn · December 2020

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

I abandoned Venomous/sheer a while ago [...] I dont use snipe

Have a "thumbs up" from me.

L_Nici · December 2020

Not playing Procs obviously makes you better since you can't rely on free damage you activate with 1 Skill and 1 Skill alone. I seriously consider Procplayers on your set levels at a 1 at max, providing 0 is no option. Stacking Procs like Sheer Venom, Venomous Smite and Sellistrix, that all get triggered from spamming Poison Inject for example is just ridiculous and completely braindead. There is no need to understand the game, use skills in rotation and buff yourself since the Procs take care of it anyway.

To be fair I currently play Proc on my Stamsorc as well, Heavy Armor, Briarheart and Nightmother, but at least thats no insta damage procs, but rather buffs and debuffs, you still need to put to a use. Normally I play full medium, but in that current procgame, medium armor is just asking for being procnuked.

Xiomaro · December 2020

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

Hi Marius

I know you play Stamblade no CP on PC EU and that's pretty relevant. Honestly, if you can keep up with a proc meta with no procs then more power to you but it's an exercise in frustration.

Playing a full proc bow blade is definitely a crutch and would build bad habits. If you were to play BRP bow, Venomous Smite and Syvarra you could just Magnum Shot people from stealth and get plenty of kills but 100% that would make you a worse player over time.

If, on the other hand, you were to add in sets like Vateshran 2h to add some burst to your combos. Or even something a little more "cheesy" like Zaan plus some other DOT, as long as you're still going into melee, landing your combos and doing your general nightblade stuff, you're not going to be a worse player. Yes, you might find some people are easier to kill. Yes, you'll get more hate whispers from baby seals and small scale elitists in Cyrodiil. But when/if the proc meta ends, you won't be a worse player on the other side. You'll just remove the procs, carry on playing the same style and continue to kill people.

If you're watching NA, CP and other platform content creators, take what they say with a pinch of salt. PC EU is a very different meta. My recommendation would be to check out some of the no CP PC EU streamers on Twitch like Decimus and Ethardt. Both of them avoid complete meta builds so maybe that'll suit you.

I didnt know NA/EU meta differed that much tbh, i will definetely check out decimus and Ethardt on youtube! Thanks for the tip.

NA players run lower health, generally. That makes burst combos a lot more effective. If you can burst someone down on NA, a similar player on EU would probably still have 5k health left after your combo and maybe be able to heal up.

If I played NA meta builds, you would probably kill me before I streak away

But even in 7 medium, I have 24k health. Or 28k+ if I'm not running a total squish build. Fengrush on NA is a great Stamsorc but he's only running 21k health with a 6-1 set up on an Orc. I've played his build on PC EU and it works okay but it just doesn't have the damage to kill 30k health players.

MrBrownstone · December 2020

I don't understand all the madness about proc sets. Maybe they're good in Cyrodiil, but not in BGs in my experience. I see proc players all the time and wreck them with my stat build.

ImSoPro · December 2020

It won’t make you a better player necessarily but it will make you better at character building. You can not use proc sets and get wrecked or you can use proc sets and still get wrecked. You still have to know the strengths, weaknesses, and set and skill synergies. I don’t think people should feel like they’re not good at the game because they use proc sets. As I’ve said before it’s all about how you use them, you can mix them in for some flavor or you can make a total proc cheese build and make people rage.

relentless_turnip · December 2020

MrBrownstone wrote: »

I don't understand all the madness about proc sets. Maybe they're good in Cyrodiil, but not in BGs in my experience. I see proc players all the time and wreck them with my stat build.

In high MMR BG's you will struggle to fight anyone not using proc sets. I would argue that the meta is most prevalent there.

Vevvev · December 2020

I prefer stat sets since they boost my healing and damage, but I always include a monster set on my PVP builds. Most monster sets classify as proc sets and some favor certain play styles. As cheesy as Zaans is for instance it forces you into a melee focused fighting style, which with practice can make you a better close range combatant as it forces you to stay up close and personal to get the most effect out of it. Some proc sets force certain combos like for instance Kaljnar's Nightmare can hit for insane damage, but only if they have crowd control immunity. Otherwise the set will simply stun them and you miss out on a good burst combo.

As someone already said it really comes down to how you use them. If you build a bunch of sets to where you press one to two buttons and nothing else you won't learn much, but if you have them present to compliment a certain playstyle they'll be better for you.

Basically what I'm trying to say is don't copy @relentless_turnip 's joke build.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=284300

Waffennacht · December 2020

After you mentioned snipe....

Snipe, with the desync is probably a bigger carry than procs

Literally can push 1 button 3 times for a kill if they get desync'ed

WacArnold · December 2020

It depends, if your not slotting damage skills and using procs for damage you might be a little rusty on pulling combos if they ever nerf procs. But if your doing combos and using procs probably not.

Same can be said for defence if your slotting all defence skills for survival because procs are doing all the damage. Then you may be a little rusty staying alive without so many defensive skills on your bar.

rpa · December 2020

As a sausage fingered pve casual, I'd think its best to use whatever one has available to get efficient results. Its one thing to whack a dummy and other to try hit someone who defends and fights back.

relentless_turnip · December 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

I prefer stat sets since they boost my healing and damage, but I always include a monster set on my PVP builds. Most monster sets classify as proc sets and some favor certain play styles. As cheesy as Zaans is for instance it forces you into a melee focused fighting style, which with practice can make you a better close range combatant as it forces you to stay up close and personal to get the most effect out of it. Some proc sets force certain combos like for instance Kaljnar's Nightmare can hit for insane damage, but only if they have crowd control immunity. Otherwise the set will simply stun them and you miss out on a good burst combo.

As someone already said it really comes down to how you use them. If you build a bunch of sets to where you press one to two buttons and nothing else you won't learn much, but if you have them present to compliment a certain playstyle they'll be better for you.

Basically what I'm trying to say is don't copy @relentless_turnip 's joke build.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=284300

@Vevvev who's joking that build does 80k-100k dots in 2 gcds... Totally balanced 👍 I have just enough health and mitigation 😂 would be stronger on a warden with arctic I chose poorly...

Vevvev · December 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

@Vevvev who's joking that build does 80k-100k dots in 2 gcds... Totally balanced 👍 I have just enough health and mitigation 😂 would be stronger on a warden with arctic I chose poorly...

A Warden with that build.... oh no....

Gilvoth · December 2020

proc sets have nothing to do with being a good player or a bad player or a "better player".
experience is the only thing that will make you a good player, just spend time learning how to kill other players in pvp and/OR pve bosses and pve stuff and you will become the "good player" you seek to become.

Doczy · December 2020

No. avoiding proc sets makes you press revive everytime

hexentb16_ESO · December 2020

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

On a scale from 1-4 , where lvl 4 are players like Malcom, istherenoonelese, Kristofer_ESO i concider myself between lvl 2-3 , on my main class.

In your honest opinion, would you say that staying away from proc sets would help out with becoming an even better player in the long run?

Is using proc sets contributing to this fake idea that one actually is good, while the sets are doing a big chunk of the killing for you?

What do you think?

There are loads of players who think using proc sets is lazy or taking the easy route. This couldn't be more wrong. It doesn't matter if you choose to use proc sets or stat sets its how you use them that matters. Truly skilled players can use both and adapt to others using both just the same.

Personally I prefer using whatever sets that maximize my character's versatility. I COULD use a max/meta dps build and kill most players in Cyrodil with just a couple shots. But then I'd just be a one-trick pony. Good for killing but not much else.

Currently I'm using...
Eternal Vigor
Ancient Dragonguard
Caustic Arrow/Master's Bow
Titanic Cleave/Master's 2h+Brawler
On a Nightblade Archer

My build still does high damage but also allows me to stay alive the longest in both pvp and pve. The abilities I chose are a mix of damage and utility abilities.

My honest opinion. It doesn't matter whether you use a proc set or stat set. Just plan your build carefully and teach yourself how to adapt to the ever changing combat situations. Greatness can be achieved by any player if they put their mind to it!

coj901 · December 2020

If you are good player without proc sets just put proc sets on and mow folks down.

pod88kk · December 2020

Why just do a light attack, run away and let the proc destroy your enemy for you.

You know like when the cool people walk away in slow motion from the things they've destroyed

Mariusghost84 · December 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

I prefer stat sets since they boost my healing and damage, but I always include a monster set on my PVP builds. Most monster sets classify as proc sets and some favor certain play styles. As cheesy as Zaans is for instance it forces you into a melee focused fighting style, which with practice can make you a better close range combatant as it forces you to stay up close and personal to get the most effect out of it. Some proc sets force certain combos like for instance Kaljnar's Nightmare can hit for insane damage, but only if they have crowd control immunity. Otherwise the set will simply stun them and you miss out on a good burst combo.

As someone already said it really comes down to how you use them. If you build a bunch of sets to where you press one to two buttons and nothing else you won't learn much, but if you have them present to compliment a certain playstyle they'll be better for you.

Basically what I'm trying to say is don't copy @relentless_turnip 's joke build.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=284300

@Vevvev that is an actually build that dude is running or some meme/joke you made up?

Rebirthment · December 2020

Not really, more like you're just gimping yourself if you don't run proc sets these days.

Gilvoth wrote: »

proc sets have nothing to do with being a good player or a bad player or a "better player".
experience is the only thing that will make you a good player, just spend time learning how to kill other players in pvp and/OR pve bosses and pve stuff and you will become the "good player" you seek to become.

exactly, experience with PVP and your class will make you a better player overall no matter what the meta is

Vevvev · December 2020

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

Vevvev that is an actually build that dude is running or some meme/joke you made up?

I didn't make it, relentless_turnip made it.

The thread he posted it is at this link. When I first saw it I was confused, but then it hit me and I busted out laughing! It is one of those memorable things I just had to dig back up!
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549677/me-make-build-me-good-at-elder-scrolls

Aleinzzs · December 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

I don't understand all the madness about proc sets. Maybe they're good in Cyrodiil, but not in BGs in my experience. I see proc players all the time and wreck them with my stat build.

In high MMR BG's you will struggle to fight anyone not using proc sets. I would argue that the meta is most prevalent there.

this. this right here. i just played against 2 teams of full proc set using teams, the entire battlefield was covered in crimson procs and warden aoe's. It's quite annoying tbh, overtuned sets, making overtuned classes even more powerful lol.

relentless_turnip · December 2020

Me play new patch!!!
Me make new build!!!

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=299416

Qbiken · December 2020

MrBrownstone wrote: »

I don't understand all the madness about proc sets. Maybe they're good in Cyrodiil, but not in BGs in my experience. I see proc players all the time and wreck them with my stat build.

@MrBrownstone

3,4 million damage (and it's not even anything extreme and this point) and almost everything is from procsets. And you can see in the video how more or less every other player stacks as much procs and AoE as they possible can. This is what the meta is all about.

https://youtu.be/9ZDNF9VStjY