This proc set meta has to end

DTStormfox · December 2020

There are multiple threats on these Forums stating that proc sets, especially damage proc sets, are way too powerful in Player vs. Player both in CP and no-CP.
When is this going to be addressed by the developers? When is this brainless meta of 'light attack = win' going to end?

shimm · December 2020

I totally agree - but quite a few of those sets are incentivizing people to run the newer dungeons to get them... so they won’t be nerfed until at least the next new area is released.

Curious_Death · December 2020

end proc-meta? add ring that increase cost of blocking by 25% but also gives back 50% of damage over time back to attacker as oblivion dmg... believe me mindless procblades will end their gameplay in one week...
or just give back 25% of all dmg back to attacker as oblivion dmg max 2k/second per target

shimm · December 2020

Unlike “nerf sorc” which is based on hurt feelings, the “crying” over these sets is reality based. The proc sets do high damage/healing or both (see the almost silly crimson twilight set) regardless of highest stat or weapon damage. So the meta is to use 2 of these sets and stack health because high magicka and stamina don’t matter. Regeneration doesn’t matter so you don’t have to worry about stam/mag regen. This makes builds that can be everything - high damage, high health, stacked mitigation. Little build variety results... Thus, pvp is broken in some of our opinions... you almost have to use these sets now or you won’t survive.

DTStormfox · December 2020

shimm wrote: »

Unlike “nerf sorc” which is based on hurt feelings, the “crying” over these sets is reality based. The proc sets do high damage/healing or both (see the almost silly crimson twilight set) regardless of highest stat or weapon damage. So the meta is to use 2 of these sets and stack health because high magicka and stamina don’t matter. Regeneration doesn’t matter so you don’t have to worry about stam/mag regen. This makes builds that can be everything - high damage, high health, stacked mitigation. Little build variety results... Thus, pvp is broken in some of our opinions... you almost have to use these sets now or you won’t survive.

Exactly this.

Vevvev · December 2020

shimm wrote: »

Unlike “nerf sorc” which is based on hurt feelings, the “crying” over these sets is reality based. The proc sets do high damage/healing or both (see the almost silly crimson twilight set) regardless of highest stat or weapon damage. So the meta is to use 2 of these sets and stack health because high magicka and stamina don’t matter. Regeneration doesn’t matter so you don’t have to worry about stam/mag regen. This makes builds that can be everything - high damage, high health, stacked mitigation. Little build variety results... Thus, pvp is broken in some of our opinions... you almost have to use these sets now or you won’t survive.

Agreed.

Like on Thursday I fought this one guy who was using the proc sets (Crimson included because of course) and I just couldn't kill him, yet at the same time he got close to almost killing me multiple times. The only reason I didn't outright die is because I kept my buffs and healing up, but no matter how much damage I threw his way it just didn't matter because eventually I had to go back to healing since his proc sets were dealing so much damage... and then he'd heal his 44k health back to full.

Back and forth this went for about 5 or so minutes before 6 people came to help, but his Crimson set scaled up its healing due to the extra people present. Eventually it took one good Fossilize from me and all of us dumping Ultimates + Executes on him before he finally fell. Its getting a bit ridiculous out there...

ivramirez · December 2020

what is the reason to keep the game this way? no changes in months despite obvious problems

Katlefiya · December 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

Like on Thursday I fought this one guy who was using the proc sets (Crimson included because of course) and I just couldn't kill him, yet at the same time he got close to almost killing me multiple times.

I fail to see the problem here. You couldn't kill him, but he couldn't kill you either.

Vevvev wrote: »

Back and forth this went for about 5 or so minutes before 6 people came to help, but his Crimson set scaled up its healing due to the extra people present. Eventually it took one good Fossilize from me and all of us dumping Ultimates + Executes on him before he finally fell. Its getting a bit ridiculous out there...

Okay, THAT is problematic. Healing should not scale up with number of enemies like this.

Mancombe_Nosehair · December 2020

What are these sets they are using?

Asking for a friend...

gatekeeper13 · December 2020

Nerf proc sets to the ground. Also nerf some classes that give you insane dmg output, dmg mitigation and sustain only by spamming 2-3 skills and using a mythic item.

Ratzkifal · December 2020

I just had an idea. What if they changed the Reinforced trait to not just add resistances but also reduce the damage from procs (or alternatively noncritical hits to account for Malacath's) by a certain amount per piece.
This would be balanced because it makes people stacking reinforced vulnerable to crit builds and people stacking impen still vulnerable to proc sets, with a mix of both being more reliable but weaker individually.

The game already knows what is a proc and what isn't, because procs cannot critically strike. So it should be possible to implement something like that without needing to rewrite the whole combat system.

Faulgor · December 2020

shimm wrote: »

Unlike “nerf sorc” which is based on hurt feelings, the “crying” over these sets is reality based. The proc sets do high damage/healing or both (see the almost silly crimson twilight set) regardless of highest stat or weapon damage. So the meta is to use 2 of these sets and stack health because high magicka and stamina don’t matter. Regeneration doesn’t matter so you don’t have to worry about stam/mag regen. This makes builds that can be everything - high damage, high health, stacked mitigation. Little build variety results... Thus, pvp is broken in some of our opinions... you almost have to use these sets now or you won’t survive.

They should just let proc sets scale with your other offensive stats to avoid this kind of thing, and possibly make them crit again so they can be an option for PvE too.
Of course they have to be rebalanced accordingly so they match the power of normal offensive sets, but given they spent ~2 years standardizing everything, that should be trivial.

GlorphNoldorin · December 2020

I dont find the proc sets to be much of a problem at all.....performance eon the other hand..........ugh, bugs.....ugh

Crow_IX · December 2020

zos wants the skilgap very tight, this means procs will always be around to help out, mean while continuing to find ways to nerf skillbased play ie animation canceling, resistances, healing, ect

Crow_IX · December 2020

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

I dont find the proc sets to be much of a problem at all.....performance eon the other hand..........ugh, bugs.....ugh

proc sets are giving people free 10k dmg for not doing anything other than playing the game. most proc sets are "hit a guy to proc 11k dmg over 10 seconds", meanwhile healing and resistances have been nerfed. proc sets present a massive issue in the combat and the reason why is because they're doing more damage than they player is. this also allows people to build very tanky cause they can just let their sets do all the damage. also unfathomable with hurricane is currently broken.

dinokstrunz · December 2020

Some balance suggestion for ZoS. The goal here is to make Proc sets require a bit more player involvement, reduce the amount of proc stacking which allows to way too much free damage for the lowest amount of effort.

The following Proc sets are probably the most over performing in the game currently.

Merciless Charge - Needs a damage nerf + shouldn't proc from the AoE ground based portion of Stampede
Unleashed Terror - Same as Merciless (These two combined are unmanageable)
Venomous Smite - Should only proc from a critical melee weapon damage ability
Syvarra - Should only proc from a critical class damaging ability
Unfathomable Darkness - Fix the bug with Hurricane buffing the damage of this set
Plague Slinger - Cooldown is way too short
Icy Conjuror - Needs to stop proccing from itself and reduce the damage

The ability to have the same proc stack needs to end, it's getting absurd and ultimately making the game a unfun and miserable experience for everyone. CHANGES NOW, we shouldn't have to wait months upon months for balance changes it's getting pathetic from Zenimax.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · December 2020

If they do nerf proc sets, I hope it's only nerfed in pvp. They aren't too strong in pve, and I find some of them quite enjoyable

I'm here petitioning separate balance for pve and pvp once again.

worrallj · December 2020

shimm wrote: »

Unlike “nerf sorc” which is based on hurt feelings, the “crying” over these sets is reality based. The proc sets do high damage/healing or both (see the almost silly crimson twilight set) regardless of highest stat or weapon damage. So the meta is to use 2 of these sets and stack health because high magicka and stamina don’t matter. Regeneration doesn’t matter so you don’t have to worry about stam/mag regen. This makes builds that can be everything - high damage, high health, stacked mitigation. Little build variety results... Thus, pvp is broken in some of our opinions... you almost have to use these sets now or you won’t survive.

I don't think this is actually the meta...... I have been trying to get exactly this kind of build to work and it's actually not that great. Your sustain sucks and the damage from proc sets is is actually piddling compared to a build that is legit designed for damage. A high health proc damage build can certainly get a couple kills in a bg, but against a solid player you will lose everytime. They'll just heal through the proc damage and do heavy damage to you until you die. It might take them a little while since you've stacked health and resistance, but ultimately they have all the advantages because they have better damage, better heals, and more regen.

Dracane · December 2020

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Some balance suggestion for ZoS. The goal here is to make Proc sets require a bit more player involvement, reduce the amount of proc stacking which allows to way too much free damage for the lowest amount of effort.

The following Proc sets are probably the most over performing in the game currently.

Merciless Charge - Needs a damage nerf + shouldn't proc from the AoE ground based portion of Stampede
Unleashed Terror - Same as Merciless (These two combined are unmanageable)
Venomous Smite - Should only proc from a critical melee weapon damage ability
Syvarra - Should only proc from a critical class damaging ability
Unfathomable Darkness - Fix the bug with Hurricane buffing the damage of this set
Plague Slinger - Cooldown is way too short
Icy Conjuror - Needs to stop proccing from itself and reduce the damage

The ability to proc stack needs to end, it's getting absurd and ultimately making the game a unfun and miserable experience for everyone. CHANGES NOW, we shouldn't have to wait months upon months for balance changes it's getting pathetic from Zenimax.

Great ideas. February's Update would be the perfect time to set the tone for the year to come. An enjoyable tone for once.

Indigogo · December 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Unlike “nerf sorc” which is based on hurt feelings, the “crying” over these sets is reality based. The proc sets do high damage/healing or both (see the almost silly crimson twilight set) regardless of highest stat or weapon damage. So the meta is to use 2 of these sets and stack health because high magicka and stamina don’t matter. Regeneration doesn’t matter so you don’t have to worry about stam/mag regen. This makes builds that can be everything - high damage, high health, stacked mitigation. Little build variety results... Thus, pvp is broken in some of our opinions... you almost have to use these sets now or you won’t survive.

Agreed.

Like on Thursday I fought this one guy who was using the proc sets (Crimson included because of course) and I just couldn't kill him, yet at the same time he got close to almost killing me multiple times. The only reason I didn't outright die is because I kept my buffs and healing up, but no matter how much damage I threw his way it just didn't matter because eventually I had to go back to healing since his proc sets were dealing so much damage... and then he'd heal his 44k health back to full.

Back and forth this went for about 5 or so minutes before 6 people came to help, but his Crimson set scaled up its healing due to the extra people present. Eventually it took one good Fossilize from me and all of us dumping Ultimates + Executes on him before he finally fell. Its getting a bit ridiculous out there...

You bullies. Imagine complaining about zerging down someone who wasn't killing anyone. 😉

jaws343 · December 2020

This patch might be the worst patch for pvp yet. Even worse than the dot patch. It's at a point where a small group of players can pretty much seal off a keep, any keep, for as long as they want. Was just in cyrodil tonight and 3 60k health tanks had guard on each other, each wearing Crimson and Hews. The problem is, you can't just walk away from them if you want to take the keep. You have to fight them. But the more damage you do to them to more damage you do to yourself and if you get close you take even more damage and heal them. And on top of that, the rest of their team is staying in close. So you can't aoe the rest of the team without proccing Hews on yourself. You can't abandon the fight because the group will just show up at your keep doing the same thing and you literally cannot defend against them. It's insane.

Forgot to mention. They were all necros on top of it. So all three of them would go into their transform ult and be at obscene amounts of health and just wipe every one in their path with zero means to actually fight back.

Kikazaru · December 2020

ZOS wants to close the skill gap by giving newer players a chance and now we see how it all turned out in the end.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

edges_endgame · December 2020

worrallj wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Unlike “nerf sorc” which is based on hurt feelings, the “crying” over these sets is reality based. The proc sets do high damage/healing or both (see the almost silly crimson twilight set) regardless of highest stat or weapon damage. So the meta is to use 2 of these sets and stack health because high magicka and stamina don’t matter. Regeneration doesn’t matter so you don’t have to worry about stam/mag regen. This makes builds that can be everything - high damage, high health, stacked mitigation. Little build variety results... Thus, pvp is broken in some of our opinions... you almost have to use these sets now or you won’t survive.

I don't think this is actually the meta...... I have been trying to get exactly this kind of build to work and it's actually not that great. Your sustain sucks and the damage from proc sets is is actually piddling compared to a build that is legit designed for damage. A high health proc damage build can certainly get a couple kills in a bg, but against a solid player you will lose everytime. They'll just heal through the proc damage and do heavy damage to you until you die. It might take them a little while since you've stacked health and resistance, but ultimately they have all the advantages because they have better damage, better heals, and more regen.

I would say 40% of people in Cyro do that meta. I person don't bother with people I know with that meta anymore. It's probably even more but it leads to changed behavior that is absolutely killing small scale PvP.
A group of 4 players with those sets is only met with a zerg.

shimm · December 2020

edges_endgame wrote: »

I would say 40% of people in Cyro do that meta. I person don't bother with people I know with that meta anymore. It's probably even more but it leads to changed behavior that is absolutely killing small scale PvP.
A group of 4 players with those sets is only met with a zerg.

Another 30% are werewolves that can now stay in werewolf form indefinitely! It’s bad, but again - this is part of the plan since this supports the newer areas and dungeons.

Qbiken · December 2020

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Some balance suggestion for ZoS. The goal here is to make Proc sets require a bit more player involvement, reduce the amount of proc stacking which allows to way too much free damage for the lowest amount of effort.

The following Proc sets are probably the most over performing in the game currently.

Merciless Charge - Needs a damage nerf + shouldn't proc from the AoE ground based portion of Stampede
Unleashed Terror - Same as Merciless (These two combined are unmanageable)
Venomous Smite - Should only proc from a critical melee weapon damage ability
Syvarra - Should only proc from a critical class damaging ability
Unfathomable Darkness - Fix the bug with Hurricane buffing the damage of this set
Plague Slinger - Cooldown is way too short
Icy Conjuror - Needs to stop proccing from itself and reduce the damage

The ability to have the same proc stack needs to end, it's getting absurd and ultimately making the game a unfun and miserable experience for everyone. CHANGES NOW, we shouldn't have to wait months upon months for balance changes it's getting pathetic from Zenimax.

Agree with the stuff mentioned above. Would also like to add a few other sets to that list:

* Caluurion's Legacy: Tooltips of this set is just way too high, and allowing it to proc from range is another big issue (mostly and issue with ranged abilities desyncing you and hitting the player before the visual ranged projectile arrives to you). Reduce the value and allow it to only proc from critical melee damage and the set is more manageable.

* Winterborn: Not too commonly used due to it being an absolute pain to farm if you want specific weapons and jewellery. The problem is the same as with old Tremorscale, which didn't have the small delay it has today. Rework the ice pillar from Winterborn to have a small delay before it emerge from the ground to allow for some kind of counterplay.

* Crimson Twilight: Please don't throw me the "it favours outnumbered PvP" as if a set allowing you to fight outnumbered makes it a healthy set. Rework it to only proc once you're below 30% HP so that you're forced to do some active healing yourself instead of just blockspam until crimson resets the fight for you.

* Chokethorn and Engine Guardian: These sets needs to despawn if interrupted/bashed since those are the only reliable counterplays. As it stands right now, engine guardian will continue to follow the user after being interrupted and providing free LoS. And fix chokethorn healing through walls/structures.

* Wrath of Elements: Reduce the range to 8 meters, make it purge-/cleansable and fix the bug where it ignores LoS and goes through objects.

* Undaunted Unweaver/Infiltrator/Noble Duelist: Heavy attack builds utilizing lightning staff is heavily overperforming and needs serious adjustments. Combine two of these sets with maelstrom lightning staff + offbalance debuff and you hit players for 6-8k A TICK in PvP. ZOS nerfed Sergeant Mail with the reasoning it provided too much burst potential with dual-wield heavy attacks (which was melee and dodgable btw, compared to lightning heavies which are ranged and can't be dodged) but for some reason it's fine for magicka when abused from ranged with very few options for counterplay??? Rework these sets to ONLY apply their damage bonus to the last tick of the lightning heavy attack.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · December 2020

there is a way of stopping the posion proc meta you just have to think out of the box, but its like the easy route, i dont have an issue with procs sets i just set up to stop them, my issue is not that in pvp what ever instance you go to, its the un sportsman play where in bg's you have 4 on 1 or overland up to 40 on one, ball groups chasing down 1 person, zos needs to have a ramping incoming damage, on how many are attacking you

Foto1 · December 2020

Mancombe_Nosehair wrote: »

What are these sets they are using?

Asking for a friend...

vateshran destro + malacath + syvarra + crimson. any race, any class. "It Just Works"

Foto1 · December 2020

I like this meta. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Faulgor · December 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

* Undaunted Unweaver/Infiltrator/Noble Duelist: Heavy attack builds utilizing lightning staff is heavily overperforming and needs serious adjustments. Combine two of these sets with maelstrom lightning staff + offbalance debuff and you hit players for 6-8k A TICK in PvP. ZOS nerfed Sergeant Mail with the reasoning it provided too much burst potential with dual-wield heavy attacks (which was melee and dodgable btw, compared to lightning heavies which are ranged and can't be dodged) but for some reason it's fine for magicka when abused from ranged with very few options for counterplay??? Rework these sets to ONLY apply their damage bonus to the last tick of the lightning heavy attack.

Please don't destroy PvE in your anti-proc frenzy, thanks.

Qbiken · December 2020

Faulgor wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

* Undaunted Unweaver/Infiltrator/Noble Duelist: Heavy attack builds utilizing lightning staff is heavily overperforming and needs serious adjustments. Combine two of these sets with maelstrom lightning staff + offbalance debuff and you hit players for 6-8k A TICK in PvP. ZOS nerfed Sergeant Mail with the reasoning it provided too much burst potential with dual-wield heavy attacks (which was melee and dodgable btw, compared to lightning heavies which are ranged and can't be dodged) but for some reason it's fine for magicka when abused from ranged with very few options for counterplay??? Rework these sets to ONLY apply their damage bonus to the last tick of the lightning heavy attack.

Please don't destroy PvE in your anti-proc frenzy, thanks.

Please don't use PvE as an excuse to leave PvP in a total un-balanced mess, thanks. And my suggestion would still make those builds viable for PvE without being completely overtuned on PvP.

dinokstrunz · December 2020

Faulgor wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

* Undaunted Unweaver/Infiltrator/Noble Duelist: Heavy attack builds utilizing lightning staff is heavily overperforming and needs serious adjustments. Combine two of these sets with maelstrom lightning staff + offbalance debuff and you hit players for 6-8k A TICK in PvP. ZOS nerfed Sergeant Mail with the reasoning it provided too much burst potential with dual-wield heavy attacks (which was melee and dodgable btw, compared to lightning heavies which are ranged and can't be dodged) but for some reason it's fine for magicka when abused from ranged with very few options for counterplay??? Rework these sets to ONLY apply their damage bonus to the last tick of the lightning heavy attack.

Please don't destroy PvE in your anti-proc frenzy, thanks.

Yes lets create a lazy boring meta where people can be allowed to dish out silly amount of dps at a touch of a button. Time to make ESO fun again I'm afraid and there's nothing fun about AFK arena & proc sets in its current form.