Let's be honest about the current meta in PvP

wheem_ESO · November 2020

Other (reply)

danthemann5 wrote: »

Even in the midst of the procpocalypse, the main determining factor in the outcome of a fight is player skill. Proc sets don't turn awful players into gods. In general, better players will still win more than they lose. People who take the time to research and experiment with gear will still do better than those who don't bother to optimize their build.

Is the proc meta my idea of fun? No, but it isn't the no-skill proctopia that some complain about.

That depends entirely on the situation. Some people tend to speak about balance as though every fight were a duel, or from the perspective of someone that usually has a dedicated healer along. Fact is, when you're in a fight against someone who's actually good, and a not-so-good player jumps in, proc sets - and the other stuff such a meta enables - make them a lot more dangerous than they otherwise would be. Anyone who can figure out how to equip Unleashed Terror and a Maelstrom 2h, along with at least one other of a variety of proc set options, immediately becomes dangerous when they add on to a fight. And it's even more of an issue if you're on a class that lacks cleanses and/or has weak self healing.

danthemann5 · November 2020

Other (reply)

wheem_ESO wrote: »

danthemann5 wrote: »

Even in the midst of the procpocalypse, the main determining factor in the outcome of a fight is player skill. Proc sets don't turn awful players into gods. In general, better players will still win more than they lose. People who take the time to research and experiment with gear will still do better than those who don't bother to optimize their build.

Is the proc meta my idea of fun? No, but it isn't the no-skill proctopia that some complain about.

That depends entirely on the situation. Some people tend to speak about balance as though every fight were a duel, or from the perspective of someone that usually has a dedicated healer along. Fact is, when you're in a fight against someone who's actually good, and a not-so-good player jumps in, proc sets - and the other stuff such a meta enables - make them a lot more dangerous than they otherwise would be. Anyone who can figure out how to equip Unleashed Terror and a Maelstrom 2h, along with at least one other of a variety of proc set options, immediately becomes dangerous when they add on to a fight. And it's even more of an issue if you're on a class that lacks cleanses and/or has weak self healing.

That is certainly a fair point. Every fight, to some degree, is situational; fights don't happen in a vacuum. I made a generalization: better players will generally do better. Sometimes a 1v1 turns into a dogpile, sometimes you make a mistake, sometimes you press a button and simply nothing happens, etc. I contend that these things can and do happen regardless of the meta. Do they happen more or have a greater impact because we are in a proc meta? I don't think I could honestly and objectively say one way or the other.

Vyseman · November 2020

This meta is fun!

Its Fun ofc. finaly a new Meta lol.
First it was hard to play against Procs but now i dont have any Problems. It also remember me to the Good Old Time with Widowmaker/Blackrose Viper, Tremorscale

Waffennacht · November 2020

I don't know

Vyseman wrote: »

Its Fun ofc. finaly a new Meta lol.
First it was hard to play against Procs but now i dont have any Problems. It also remember me to the Good Old Time with Widowmaker/Blackrose Viper, Tremorscale

I do remember and snipe desync is just as bad ATM. I have a clip of me literally falling over dead with full health.... Then snipe snipe snipe....

Anyway.... Would much rather deal with WWs or Procs over snipe desync....

Just so darn annoying

Kory · November 2020

Not sure I care that much. If it's fun and affective, I'm in there.
Just don't teabag, after zerging solo players down with 50 different armor sets doing your killing

Lets not let light armor/magicka procs sets slide under the rug, those are strong too!

techyeshic · November 2020

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

It's absolutely boring and for the first time; I've stopped playing not just because of performance. Although performance issues make it more annoying as you can't get a cleanse off or actually chain abilities together, while someone just gap closes and light attacks their damage.

Sergykid · November 2020

and what's the point of the poll? nobody at zos cares, new dlc is out so people buy it to get the strongest weapon. You are playing a business, not a game.

Sergykid · November 2020

the meta is as disgusting as it has been since the release of mythic items. Those are still a plague to this day, and will be on from now. Just another brick on the wall between me and this game.

relentless_turnip · November 2020

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

Luede wrote: »

procc sets are META? What game do u playing? i see more and more 2h/sword & board / frenzied momentum / 30k+ hp builds.in comparison, i see little real procc builds

You just described a proc build 😂👍

Luede · December 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

procc sets are META? What game do u playing? i see more and more 2h/sword & board / frenzied momentum / 30k+ hp builds.in comparison, i see little real procc builds

You just described a proc build 😂👍

i know what u mean, but no. these guys didnt use procc sets, because they simply suck against small scale, mid scale, large scale, Templer, Necros, Wardens, Nightblades and every solo player with ring of the pale order. Procc sets are not META, and not OP.

wheem_ESO · December 2020

Other (reply)

Luede wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

procc sets are META? What game do u playing? i see more and more 2h/sword & board / frenzied momentum / 30k+ hp builds.in comparison, i see little real procc builds

You just described a proc build 😂👍

i know what u mean, but no. these guys didnt use procc sets, because they simply suck against small scale, mid scale, large scale, Templer, Necros, Wardens, Nightblades and every solo player with ring of the pale order. Procc sets are not META, and not OP.

Are you playing exclusively CP-enabled Cyrodill or something? Because in no-CP BGs, proc sets are absolutely 100% the meta. It's not even arguable. Like, at all.

There are Stamina builds that can play with 0 proc sets and still do really well, and the same is mostly true for Magicka Sorcerers, but that doesn't mean that proc sets aren't simply better in most cases. Because they are.

relentless_turnip · December 2020

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

Luede wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

procc sets are META? What game do u playing? i see more and more 2h/sword & board / frenzied momentum / 30k+ hp builds.in comparison, i see little real procc builds

You just described a proc build 😂👍

i know what u mean, but no. these guys didnt use procc sets, because they simply suck against small scale, mid scale, large scale, Templer, Necros, Wardens, Nightblades and every solo player with ring of the pale order. Procc sets are not META, and not OP.

I respectfully disagree, proc sets are 100% the meta. Not so much in IC. Aside from crimson and alessian werewolves. Almost everyone I fight in battlegrounds or cyrodill is 30k+ health and wearing at least 2 proc sets. I would say 1 in 3 are wearing crimson. I am not denying your experience, but certainly would argue your definition of the meta. Especially since you just described an isolated interaction with a group of players.

I am using the pale order ring, tbh I don't think it's that great and I am using it on a stamsorc in 2 stat damage sets with lots of bleeds etc... So I believe I am getting as much as I can from it. From my tests it favours attrition over burst, which is why I took it this route.

Out of interest what do you think is currently meta, aside from high health and pale order? I only agree with the first bit. I am the only person in my guild using pale order as far as I know. It's not enough healing to replace a hot for example.

IAmIcehouse · December 2020

Other (reply)

The proc meta is bad, but to be clear it's not just procs. It's a a proc-tank meta. Stacking 35K HP, Malacath, a Proc set, and EV. Hell, even vatreshan destro. Now you have such reliable damage and incredible sustain.

This is significantly worse than when you were being hit by sheer venom+hunters venom by a single button. That was horrible, but at least you could kill the cheese and at least prone to bad positioning.

PVP isn't enjoyable in its current state.

Xiomaro · December 2020

I don't know

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

The proc meta is bad, but to be clear it's not just procs. It's a a proc-tank meta. Stacking 35K HP, Malacath, a Proc set, and EV. Hell, even vatreshan destro. Now you have such reliable damage and incredible sustain.

This is significantly worse than when you were being hit by sheer venom+hunters venom by a single button. That was horrible, but at least you could kill the cheese and at least prone to bad positioning.

PVP isn't enjoyable in its current state.

Agreed.

Although getting hit by a triple/quad proc player can hurt, if you catch them they go down like a sack of *ZOS-friendly wording*. The good players are running EV or (sometimes and) Alessian, Malacath and 1 or 2 procs. These guys are a lot harder to take down and they eat the triple/quad proc players for breakfast - the DOTs just won't cut through the health regen. The average player hasn't caught up to this yet - they think you just shove on a bunch of procs and you win. No no no. The proc tank is the real meta... Or it will be soon.

Waffennacht · December 2020

I don't know

Xiomaro wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

The proc meta is bad, but to be clear it's not just procs. It's a a proc-tank meta. Stacking 35K HP, Malacath, a Proc set, and EV. Hell, even vatreshan destro. Now you have such reliable damage and incredible sustain.

This is significantly worse than when you were being hit by sheer venom+hunters venom by a single button. That was horrible, but at least you could kill the cheese and at least prone to bad positioning.

PVP isn't enjoyable in its current state.

Agreed.

Although getting hit by a triple/quad proc player can hurt, if you catch them they go down like a sack of *ZOS-friendly wording*. The good players are running EV or (something and) Alessian, Malacath and 1 or 2 procs. These guys are a lot harder to take down and they eat the triple/quad proc players for breakfast - the DOTs just won't cut through the health regen. The average player hasn't caught up to this yet - they think you just shove on a bunch of procs and you win. No no no. The proc tank is the real meta... Or it will be soon.

I dunno, I dont see any health regen matching a 9.8k no CP (after BS) no Crit insta heal for 3k mag. With access to mending, streak and conversion.

Both are tanks yes, but the Sorc version is always over looked and can sport pure procs. Warden can as well, not as big of a heal, but actually has even higher damage potential

Xiomaro · December 2020

I don't know

Waffennacht wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

The proc meta is bad, but to be clear it's not just procs. It's a a proc-tank meta. Stacking 35K HP, Malacath, a Proc set, and EV. Hell, even vatreshan destro. Now you have such reliable damage and incredible sustain.

This is significantly worse than when you were being hit by sheer venom+hunters venom by a single button. That was horrible, but at least you could kill the cheese and at least prone to bad positioning.

PVP isn't enjoyable in its current state.

Agreed.

Although getting hit by a triple/quad proc player can hurt, if you catch them they go down like a sack of *ZOS-friendly wording*. The good players are running EV or (something and) Alessian, Malacath and 1 or 2 procs. These guys are a lot harder to take down and they eat the triple/quad proc players for breakfast - the DOTs just won't cut through the health regen. The average player hasn't caught up to this yet - they think you just shove on a bunch of procs and you win. No no no. The proc tank is the real meta... Or it will be soon.

I dunno, I dont see any health regen matching a 9.8k no CP (after BS) no Crit insta heal for 3k mag. With access to mending, streak and conversion.

Both are tanks yes, but the Sorc version is always over looked and can sport pure procs. Warden can as well, not as big of a heal, but actually has even higher damage potential

I wasn't implying that health regen was the only form of defence. The health regen just acts as a buffer to nullify procs while the health-scaling heals do the rest of the work.

Proc Sorcs are a totally different beast but also very strong. I would put proc Sorcs right up with the proc tanks. At least in BGs, Azureblight sorc seems to be the best way to deal with cross healing premades. I've noticed a lot of premades starting to run one Azureblight sorc and 3 cross healing Wardens.

Sergykid · December 2020

the vateshran destro is so good even stamina builds use it, meanwhile i don't see mag builds using the 2h vateshran.
one thing with vateshran 2h is that the heavy attack works from the other bar, quite unbalanced.

Waffennacht · December 2020

I don't know

Sergykid wrote: »

the vateshran destro is so good even stamina builds use it, meanwhile i don't see mag builds using the 2h vateshran.
one thing with vateshran 2h is that the heavy attack works from the other bar, quite unbalanced.

And unfortunately the LA HA change really only opens options for stam to use more ranged weapons

wheem_ESO · December 2020

Other (reply)

Sergykid wrote: »

the vateshran destro is so good even stamina builds use it, meanwhile i don't see mag builds using the 2h vateshran.
one thing with vateshran 2h is that the heavy attack works from the other bar, quite unbalanced.

Stamina builds can get just as much use out of Elemental Drain as magicka builds can, and don't need to spend any resources to apply the debuff. That same dynamic does not exist in the case of magicka builds that might want to utilize the Vateshran 2h weapons. What magicka build, especially in no-CP, is going to be able to afford to keep Momentum active + use other stamina abilities in order to build buff stacks? In practice, if the build was able to still be referred to as "magicka," you'd probably eat an unbreakable CC before you were even able to build enough stacks (which only provide weapon damage) to trigger the burst with a heavy attack.

idk · December 2020

Every time I see the title of this thread pop up I am reminded of a co-worker that started off many explanations with "I am not going to lie to you". It always made me think he was lying to us and just saying that to throw us off any suspicion.

So are we really being honest here?

Ragnaroek93 · December 2020

Other (reply)

Both proc sets and stamcro/stamden are absolutely awful and I don't think that I'll play PvP until this is fixed to be honest. I have the feeling that they have given up on PvP at all.

Pauwer · December 2020

I play all sorts of characters and sets in pvp. I dunno, on ps4 i don't see all that much prog sets on my death recaps, maybe it's not such a big deal here. But what i have found to being succesful now is to have health over 30k, the closer to 40k the better. And then high recovery, the closer to 3k the better, on your main resourse pool. Winning.