That depends entirely on the situation. Some people tend to speak about balance as though every fight were a duel, or from the perspective of someone that usually has a dedicated healer along. Fact is, when you're in a fight against someone who's actually good, and a not-so-good player jumps in, proc sets - and the other stuff such a meta enables - make them a lot more dangerous than they otherwise would be. Anyone who can figure out how to equip Unleashed Terror and a Maelstrom 2h, along with at least one other of a variety of proc set options, immediately becomes dangerous when they add on to a fight. And it's even more of an issue if you're on a class that lacks cleanses and/or has weak self healing.danthemann5 wrote: »Even in the midst of the procpocalypse, the main determining factor in the outcome of a fight is player skill. Proc sets don't turn awful players into gods. In general, better players will still win more than they lose. People who take the time to research and experiment with gear will still do better than those who don't bother to optimize their build.
Is the proc meta my idea of fun? No, but it isn't the no-skill proctopia that some complain about.
That depends entirely on the situation. Some people tend to speak about balance as though every fight were a duel, or from the perspective of someone that usually has a dedicated healer along. Fact is, when you're in a fight against someone who's actually good, and a not-so-good player jumps in, proc sets - and the other stuff such a meta enables - make them a lot more dangerous than they otherwise would be. Anyone who can figure out how to equip Unleashed Terror and a Maelstrom 2h, along with at least one other of a variety of proc set options, immediately becomes dangerous when they add on to a fight. And it's even more of an issue if you're on a class that lacks cleanses and/or has weak self healing.danthemann5 wrote: »Even in the midst of the procpocalypse, the main determining factor in the outcome of a fight is player skill. Proc sets don't turn awful players into gods. In general, better players will still win more than they lose. People who take the time to research and experiment with gear will still do better than those who don't bother to optimize their build.
Is the proc meta my idea of fun? No, but it isn't the no-skill proctopia that some complain about.
Its Fun ofc. finaly a new Meta lol.
First it was hard to play against Procs but now i dont have any Problems. It also remember me to the Good Old Time with Widowmaker/Blackrose Viper, Tremorscale
relentless_turnip wrote: »
Are you playing exclusively CP-enabled Cyrodill or something? Because in no-CP BGs, proc sets are absolutely 100% the meta. It's not even arguable. Like, at all.relentless_turnip wrote: »
i know what u mean, but no. these guys didnt use procc sets, because they simply suck against small scale, mid scale, large scale, Templer, Necros, Wardens, Nightblades and every solo player with ring of the pale order. Procc sets are not META, and not OP.
relentless_turnip wrote: »
i know what u mean, but no. these guys didnt use procc sets, because they simply suck against small scale, mid scale, large scale, Templer, Necros, Wardens, Nightblades and every solo player with ring of the pale order. Procc sets are not META, and not OP.
IAmIcehouse wrote: »The proc meta is bad, but to be clear it's not just procs. It's a a proc-tank meta. Stacking 35K HP, Malacath, a Proc set, and EV. Hell, even vatreshan destro. Now you have such reliable damage and incredible sustain.
This is significantly worse than when you were being hit by sheer venom+hunters venom by a single button. That was horrible, but at least you could kill the cheese and at least prone to bad positioning.
PVP isn't enjoyable in its current state.
IAmIcehouse wrote: »The proc meta is bad, but to be clear it's not just procs. It's a a proc-tank meta. Stacking 35K HP, Malacath, a Proc set, and EV. Hell, even vatreshan destro. Now you have such reliable damage and incredible sustain.
This is significantly worse than when you were being hit by sheer venom+hunters venom by a single button. That was horrible, but at least you could kill the cheese and at least prone to bad positioning.
PVP isn't enjoyable in its current state.
Agreed.
Although getting hit by a triple/quad proc player can hurt, if you catch them they go down like a sack of *ZOS-friendly wording*. The good players are running EV or (something and) Alessian, Malacath and 1 or 2 procs. These guys are a lot harder to take down and they eat the triple/quad proc players for breakfast - the DOTs just won't cut through the health regen. The average player hasn't caught up to this yet - they think you just shove on a bunch of procs and you win. No no no. The proc tank is the real meta... Or it will be soon.
Waffennacht wrote: »IAmIcehouse wrote: »The proc meta is bad, but to be clear it's not just procs. It's a a proc-tank meta. Stacking 35K HP, Malacath, a Proc set, and EV. Hell, even vatreshan destro. Now you have such reliable damage and incredible sustain.
This is significantly worse than when you were being hit by sheer venom+hunters venom by a single button. That was horrible, but at least you could kill the cheese and at least prone to bad positioning.
PVP isn't enjoyable in its current state.
Agreed.
Although getting hit by a triple/quad proc player can hurt, if you catch them they go down like a sack of *ZOS-friendly wording*. The good players are running EV or (something and) Alessian, Malacath and 1 or 2 procs. These guys are a lot harder to take down and they eat the triple/quad proc players for breakfast - the DOTs just won't cut through the health regen. The average player hasn't caught up to this yet - they think you just shove on a bunch of procs and you win. No no no. The proc tank is the real meta... Or it will be soon.
I dunno, I dont see any health regen matching a 9.8k no CP (after BS) no Crit insta heal for 3k mag. With access to mending, streak and conversion.
Both are tanks yes, but the Sorc version is always over looked and can sport pure procs. Warden can as well, not as big of a heal, but actually has even higher damage potential
the vateshran destro is so good even stamina builds use it, meanwhile i don't see mag builds using the 2h vateshran.
one thing with vateshran 2h is that the heavy attack works from the other bar, quite unbalanced.
Stamina builds can get just as much use out of Elemental Drain as magicka builds can, and don't need to spend any resources to apply the debuff. That same dynamic does not exist in the case of magicka builds that might want to utilize the Vateshran 2h weapons. What magicka build, especially in no-CP, is going to be able to afford to keep Momentum active + use other stamina abilities in order to build buff stacks? In practice, if the build was able to still be referred to as "magicka," you'd probably eat an unbreakable CC before you were even able to build enough stacks (which only provide weapon damage) to trigger the burst with a heavy attack.the vateshran destro is so good even stamina builds use it, meanwhile i don't see mag builds using the 2h vateshran.
one thing with vateshran 2h is that the heavy attack works from the other bar, quite unbalanced.