Let's be honest about the current meta in PvP

DTStormfox

Let's be honest about the current meta in PvP. It is not fun to be killed over and over again not because somebody is skilled but because they wear the highest damage sets.

PvP, in general, is dominated by proc sets such as Unleashed Terror, Syvarra's Scales, and Crimson Twilight.
PvP WAS dominated by highly skilled players. Now, everybody can dominate by wearing the best proc set gear, regardless of any experience.

relentless_turnip

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

I hate this meta too.

Proc sets should scale with offensive stats.
So you can't stack health and health based heals don't over perform.

I think current proc set tooltips should only be achievable with a high stat investment. Meaning you'd have to wear new moon and syvarra for example with attributes in stamina to achieve its current tooltip. This would make build diversity incredible as well.

Waffennacht

I don't know

I did not have fun when class imbalance was the primary dictator of victory.

I do not like being able to have 0 offensive stats or offensive abilities and yet destroy just about anything

I do like the variety, I do like how a minority of the proc sets offset class imbalance.

About the cirrent meta; I also dislike how mag necro feels identity-less, how templar feels gimped, how certain classes are just flat out easier to run and more enjoyable (I mean who doesnt love their warden right meow?)

I wanna feel that on each class (not OP, but at least like it can bring something)

So all together, i dunno.

Kordai

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

I just dislike how easy it is for proc sets to be "procced". A guaranteed proc isn't even a proc anymore really.

Proc sets are far superior in every possible way to stat based sets. Draugrkin is worth around 2500-3000 weapon damage on some abilities... Proc sets often nullify dodge, block and los. You know the things good players do. Why bother when you can just stand there spamming stampede and do a consistent 3-4k dps. I don't have to chase people with dwing, I can just spam stampede. LOS, but no purge? Then it's 2.5-3k dps. Dodge, but no purge? The it's the full 3-4k.

TheBonesXXX

No one likes original Camo Hunter, the First and Second iterations of proc sets, whos gonna like the now?

The only proc set remotely balanced is Unfathomable because those birds RNG target someone.

Xiomaro

I don't know

There are some procs that are cool and actually add variety to the game. I think Azureblight is a really cool set because you have to build entirely around it to get the most out of it. Same thing goes for Draugrkin, Vicious Death, Harbinger etc.

Sets like Syvarra, Venomous Smite, Crimson Twilight and a few others that require you to slot zero special abilities add nothing to build diversity. You just play as normal and they add value you for you. These sort of sets shouldn't outperform stat sets to the point where even top players give up all their weapon damage, spell damage etc to run them.

Proc sets should aid build diversity. If all they do is add damage, then a well played stat set should outperform it. If you're trying to do something different like Magblade bomb a group then Vicious Death helps you do that. That and the other sets I mentioned are actually interesting. Even if they still need looked at in terms of numbers - the actual concepts are interesting.

Theignson

Proc sets meet "unkillable" tanks. Unmovable object meets irresistible force.

I suspect they put proc sets in to deal with the tank problem. It does work. You can melt the tanks now easier than before.

But a skilled tower humping tanktroll will still beat a procsetting potatoe.

BTW proc set meta is a huge boon to cloak, making it even more powerful-- it suppresses dots...(Shhh)

kstephano

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

I hate proc sets. I find it much more fun to go all out damage sets on my Nightblade however I am left to despair when a magden with 30k hp comes along, eats up my combo, proceeds to heal back up to full in seconds, and then destroys me with set procs. Cancerous meta for sure.

If I find someone hard to kill in Cyrodiil or a bg I'll keep coming back to them for the challenge. Asking them for tips or build advice leads to the response "get proc sets" literally every time.

Rhaegar75

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

Dreadful....carbon copy builds..either proc proc proc or unkillable troll tanks....most of the times the 2 options coincide (mmm stamden anyone?!?!/)

wheem_ESO

Other (reply)

While I certainly don't like proc sets being so completely dominant, I don't really mind if they exist and get used "in moderation." Some builds, like stacking Unleashed Terror + Maelstrom 2h + bar swap into Syvarra's Scales, result in a completely ludicrous amount of DOT damage - much of which is AOE - being applied by a single global cooldown spent on what really should be a utility skill. Furthermore, this "utility skill" often does as much or more up-front damage than most Magicka spammables do.

Some DOT procs are also able to automatically reapply without any further input from the set's wearer, which is something that I really think needs to be changed (especially for anything AOE). Other proc sets are mostly OK, or at least would be if some numbers were tweaked a bit.

It's not like PvP was particularly well balanced before this 3.0 proc set meta kicked off, and some classes were able to do far better than others even in the hands of not-so-skilled players. Nerfing most/all proc sets wouldn't "fix" PvP by itself, but it's still something that I'm certainly in favor of.

umagon

I think zos needs to limit sets of the same damage type (dot, direct, etc.) so the effects can not be stacked on one player target. For example, if a player is under the effect of a damage over time effect from one set, they can not be effected by another hostile damage over time set. Including weapon sets. And sets like crimson twilight need hard caps on the number of targets it can hit.

ivramirez

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

I hate the current state of ESO PVP.

Players are killing without even knowing what they are doing. There is no skill base game, there is proc set game, sets like Crimson twilight should be removed from this game right now. FULL healing 100% damage done, who in the hell came with that idea?

HalvarIronfist

Other (reply)

I think in one aspect that it's good that proc sets are WORTH using, what I don't like is how meta they are.

It's nice to have the option and to be fairly useful, it's nice that there's this level of diversity so that all builds aren't just the same three sets.(I mean, even though proc sets are meta, this didn't make old sets unviable. Just less focused on in general.)

That said, some of them are a bit overpowered and I think should be tuned down slightly. Fair to say, proc sets ARE a carry right now.

ImSoPro

Other (reply)

I guess I’m in between because I feel like proc sets are ok. They add some flavor to PVP but the problem is some of them can carry you, so people combine the carry sets and make an easy mode build. Then they go and wreck the player that built for stats, this process repeats and everyone hates proc sets. Personally I use proc sets here and there. I have an aoe lightning magsorc that uses overwhelming surge and it’s a lot of fun. Doesn’t carry me though, If anything the streak stun carries me lol. Skilled players will always be the top dogs so I don’t feel like the game rewards laziness or anything like people have said.

It certainly makes getting into PVP easier for new PVPers who can crutch on something from time to time. Maybe that is the goal idk but a skilled player will always be more effective with the same gear anyway. There’s nothing truly wrong with using them it’s just about the way they get used. Any possible way people can exploit the game to make it easier for them they will do it. The people that make the carry builds give proc sets a bad look. As a skilled PVP player you may get crushed by a carry build but once you know the counters to it you will adapt and still be able to win in most situations. If a potato is getting carried by sets then that’s all they know, they will get beat repeatedly the sec they get figured out. Skill still beats sets.

SshadowSscale

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

Theignson wrote: »

Proc sets meet "unkillable" tanks. Unmovable object meets irresistible force.

I suspect they put proc sets in to deal with the tank problem. It does work. You can melt the tanks now easier than before.

But a skilled tower humping tanktroll will still beat a procsetting potatoe.

BTW proc set meta is a huge boon to cloak, making it even more powerful-- it suppresses dots...(Shhh)

the same unkillable tanks can also use proc sets making them an unkillable nuke

Firstmep

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

Most ppl I know ingame, friends, guild mates etc agree that procs are out of control atm, especially in no cp.
We are at the point when classes start to matter less and less and your armor is the most defining factor of your character.
The damage of the current proc line up is simply too high, and it promotes building as tanky as possible with procs carrying your damage.
Sadly I don't see Zos going away from this trend, they seem to think procs help new players, but of course they still get destroyed by procsets all the same.

While I'd like procs to be like skills and scale with offensive stats, I don't think the team has the will or the resources to make it happen.

I find myself reluctant to log in, and even more so to actually pvp. Don't get me wrong I still do well in pvp, but I just don't like how everything is about procs right now.
Stat sets need to be relevant.

One easier to implement solution would be to make all heals scale with offensive stats, and perhaps make hp based heals like dragons blood where they scale with missing hp, making them not as potent in pvp, but still viable for pve.

I get that some ppl like to play tanks in pvp, but right now most ppl are tanks with high damage.

We have had years of this with over performing sets like fury, seventh, ravager etc, but this current meta is even worse.
Last time I checked Zos wanted to move away from this sort of playstyle, which is why they nerfed those sets, alongside with things like bloodspawn.

But then they give us the most broken procsets, and malacath which push ppl to heavy armor tanky playstyle all the same.

Stahlor

...

JayKwellen

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

I hate it, it's awful and to be honest it makes me seriously question if the developers even understand their own game.

I don't hate the potatoes that wear it though. I mean yes, it is absurdly annoying to get absolutely covered in procs everytime you're fighting more than one person, especially while playing a class without access to a purge, but that's whatever. Potatoes live to get smashed, and they'll find their way into the grinder procs or no procs.

No, I hate the good players that use them. The people who have a solid understanding of how to play the game and how to build a character.

Those people are the problem. Those are the folks who can make a character that can tank absurd amounts of damage, then turn and burn through anyone in front of them who's not of equal or higher skill. "But they could do that before!" you say, and to that I respond that yes, they could. Procs didn't give them the ability to do something they couldn't before, they just gave them the ability to do what they were already doing, only better, and they kind of broke the meta in the process.

And of course it was them who did it. Because who else would it be? No, of course it was the people who actually study the patch notes and theorycraft and test builds and know how to play. And I mean honestly I ain't even mad at them, nor do I blame them. The devs dropped this wonderful gift in their laps, how stupid would they have to be to not take advantage to be as strong as possible?

The thing I don't get though, is how did the developers not see this coming? You're telling me you drop malacath while making procs the best thing in the game and...you couldn't predict that the actual PvPers were going to take that and make a bunch of crazy powerful builds? Builds they would then use to turn around and terrorize the very low APM people you've trying to make the game easier for so they don't have to learn to play it in the first place?

Anyone should have been able to predict this, but the developers either didn't, [snip] I don't know which it is, but neither answer inspires confidence in the future of this game.

Anyway, the TLDR is: Procs suck.

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Tiphis

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

People complain every time on the pts for the last few iterations. Do the devs listen? Not at all. Remember when people were complaining about vate 2H proc? The devs then proceeded to buff it. Granted after even more pushback they then "nerfed" it back to its original value.

It's clearly a case of what looks good on paper and is completely independent of actual game play. I'm sure if a person running proc sets duels a person wearing stat based sets and nobody dodges, LOS or blocks the result would be somewhat even. If a player does anything of "skill" then it favors the proc set heavily, but the devs ofc don't do that.

Joinovikova

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

I think there is no need fór another pool feedbacl was clear more than 85% players do not lile this meta and new wrath of elements staff make it even worse ... really how such obvious stupidity can pass to live .not understand. Zos hope introduce p2w items will increase sales but it will not happend u will just make angry majority of people And achive massive eso plus cancelation ´

idk

If we are truly going to be honest, has anyone actually enjoyed whatever the current meta has been unless they are the ones playing it? A great example is, have people enjoyed going up against the tank meta?

Tommy_The_Gun

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

- Dmg proc sets should scale with max offensive stats (max stamina / magicka ; weapon / spell dmg).
- Healing proc sets should scale with max health.

That imho is the only way to "fix" proc sets. They are kinda "broken" because they scale with nothing. It is free dmg or healing. Sure in CP, CP can boost it, but other than that, dmg / healing proc set offer is an "anomaly". All other dmg / healing scales with something. Sets do not.

Edit: Not necessarily "sick" (but it was fitting best), I remeber the previous proc set meta, back from the time when those could crit (Imagine that now lol), but it is very "cheesy" & "counterless" passive game-play. It Should not be this rewarding and most effective imho

Joy_Division

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

Proc meta was so fun, ZOS brought it back twice

ccfeeling

I don't know

It's pretty hard to evade WW crimson + fear combo .

fred4

Other (reply)

I should probably keep my mouth shut, because I feel the forum population is biased and so is the phrasing of this poll. I'll keep it short. I play in CP. It may very well be the case that no CP is different, but from my perspective proc sets and stat sets are reasonably balanced on the whole. There is a big skill gap between players and IMO running procs in CP will not turn a mediocre player into a good one or a good one into a great one. I've caught myself thinking, occasionally, that player "X" wasn't very good and I died an unjust death. Upon reflection I usually realise my arrogance and conceit.

Hexquisite

Other (reply)

While I currently hate the proc set meta, my hate has more to do with the broken performance of the game, that does not allow people to react fast enough--if at all.

Such as apparently there is no CC immunity no matter what you do in this game in most busy playing hours. The game just doesn't seem to register many people roll dodging, breaking free, using RAT, or using immovables--and when they finally do get free they are immediately CCd again. The same thing seems to happen with Purge a lot. And people purposely use skills that will desync players, or get them stuck in a CC loop.

Dead Horse I know...but I also get to play when the game is only 1 or 2 bars across and skills and break frees work, it changes the potency of most Proc sets.

Outside of a few OP sets, I think that proc sets can be fun and bring new life to a game, they are fun to theory craft around.

SshadowSscale

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

JayKwellen wrote: »

I hate it, it's awful and to be honest it makes me seriously question if the developers even understand their own game.

I don't hate the potatoes that wear it though. I mean yes, it is absurdly annoying to get absolutely covered in procs everytime you're fighting more than one person, especially while playing a class without access to a purge, but that's whatever. Potatoes live to get smashed, and they'll find their way into the grinder procs or no procs.

No, I hate the good players that use them. The people who have a solid understanding of how to play the game and how to build a character.

Those people are the problem. Those are the folks who can make a character that can tank absurd amounts of damage, then turn and burn through anyone in front of them who's not of equal or higher skill. "But they could do that before!" you say, and to that I respond that yes, they could. Procs didn't give them the ability to do something they couldn't before, they just gave them the ability to do what they were already doing, only better, and they kind of broke the meta in the process.

And of course it was them who did it. Because who else would it be? No, of course it was the people who actually study the patch notes and theorycraft and test builds and know how to play. And I mean honestly I ain't even mad at them, nor do I blame them. The devs dropped this wonderful gift in their laps, how stupid would they have to be to not take advantage to be as strong as possible?

The thing I don't get though, is how did the developers not see this coming? You're telling me you drop malacath while making procs the best thing in the game and...you couldn't predict that the actual PvPers were going to take that and make a bunch of crazy powerful builds? Builds they would then use to turn around and terrorize the very low APM people you've trying to make the game easier for so they don't have to learn to play it in the first place?

Anyone should have been able to predict this, but the developers either didn't, [snip] I don't know which it is, but neither answer inspires confidence in the future of this game.

Anyway, the TLDR is: Procs suck.

[Edited to remove Bashing]

The thing is people tried to warn zos about this.... hell isth3reno1else made multiple videos on it but the forums replied that it's just the elitits afraid of equal playing fields and that people saying a proc meta is incoming don't know what they are talking about..... and then we got proc meta and the forum hates it now and is asking why no one warned them..... 10/10 forums

Vizirith

I am sick and tired of this proc set meta!

SshadowSscale wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

I hate it, it's awful and to be honest it makes me seriously question if the developers even understand their own game.

I don't hate the potatoes that wear it though. I mean yes, it is absurdly annoying to get absolutely covered in procs everytime you're fighting more than one person, especially while playing a class without access to a purge, but that's whatever. Potatoes live to get smashed, and they'll find their way into the grinder procs or no procs.

No, I hate the good players that use them. The people who have a solid understanding of how to play the game and how to build a character.

Those people are the problem. Those are the folks who can make a character that can tank absurd amounts of damage, then turn and burn through anyone in front of them who's not of equal or higher skill. "But they could do that before!" you say, and to that I respond that yes, they could. Procs didn't give them the ability to do something they couldn't before, they just gave them the ability to do what they were already doing, only better, and they kind of broke the meta in the process.

And of course it was them who did it. Because who else would it be? No, of course it was the people who actually study the patch notes and theorycraft and test builds and know how to play. And I mean honestly I ain't even mad at them, nor do I blame them. The devs dropped this wonderful gift in their laps, how stupid would they have to be to not take advantage to be as strong as possible?

The thing I don't get though, is how did the developers not see this coming? You're telling me you drop malacath while making procs the best thing in the game and...you couldn't predict that the actual PvPers were going to take that and make a bunch of crazy powerful builds? Builds they would then use to turn around and terrorize the very low APM people you've trying to make the game easier for so they don't have to learn to play it in the first place?

Anyone should have been able to predict this, but the developers either didn't, [snip] I don't know which it is, but neither answer inspires confidence in the future of this game.

Anyway, the TLDR is: Procs suck.

[Edited to remove Bashing]

The thing is people tried to warn zos about this.... hell isth3reno1else made multiple videos on it but the forums replied that it's just the elitits afraid of equal playing fields and that people saying a proc meta is incoming don't know what they are talking about..... and then we got proc meta and the forum hates it now and is asking why no one warned them..... 10/10 forums

I didn't see anyone say they were in favor of proc sets. It was just debatable how overpowered they were.

Luede

procc sets are META? What game do u playing? i see more and more 2h/sword & board / frenzied momentum / 30k+ hp builds.in comparison, i see little real procc builds

fred4

Other (reply)

Luede wrote: »

procc sets are META? What game do u playing? i see more and more 2h/sword & board / frenzied momentum / 30k+ hp builds.in comparison, i see little real procc builds

I agree, but I think it may depend on where you're playing, e.g. CP / no CP (BGs) and maybe the server you're on. I certainly agree 2H / 1H+S is meta for most stat builds, although I favor 2h / bow on stamsorc and would guess that is the meta for stamblade. In CP PC EU I see a mixture of everything and I play half proc (magblade, stamsorc) half stat (stam DK, magplar) myself.

danthemann5

Other (reply)

Even in the midst of the procpocalypse, the main determining factor in the outcome of a fight is player skill. Proc sets don't turn awful players into gods. In general, better players will still win more than they lose. People who take the time to research and experiment with gear will still do better than those who don't bother to optimize their build.

Is the proc meta my idea of fun? No, but it isn't the no-skill proctopia that some complain about.