ZoS actively supports/encourages toxic players by...
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Faiza✭✭✭✭✭
No, it actually makes a lot of sense.
There's a lot of guffawing in this thread because people like to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. You all know exactly the type of behavior that lead to this post, but are defending it either because you engage in it or think being edgy is cute.
I don't care about communicating with players who are toxic, but appearing offline inhibits your ability to report and block them as well. And since ZOS puts the entire onus of managing this problem onto the players who are negatively affected - that needs to be addressed.
That sounds toxic either.
Also You can report or block people wheter or not You or them are offline or online. ZOS "puts the entire onus of managing this "problem" onto the players" because this game have age restrictions and expecting from grow up people to manage stuff like that is pretty normal I would say.
No, there's a known issue where you cannot right click a players name to block or report when they are appearing offline.
And no, reporting you for being toxic isn't toxic...that's literally the solution given to us. Report and block. And since that is the only solution, ZOS has to investigate anything that inhibits that.0 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭Maybe people should just block people instead of feeding the trolls. I've noticed that most of the people who "defend themselves" against blatant trolls are incredibly toxic as well but have deluded themselves into thinking they're virtuous. Screaming back at someone who is being obviously provocative makes you just as bad as them.
Same goes to the people who think to counter wholesale buyers "spamming" in zone chat they should spam MM and TTC prices of every item they're buying. In what world does spamming 5-10 times more than a "spammer" sound like a logical solution?
Too many people on their high horse convincing themselves they're morally superior to everyone else
Block and move on.5 -
DigitalHype✭✭✭✭Maybe people should just block people instead of feeding the trolls. I've noticed that most of the people who "defend themselves" against blatant trolls are incredibly toxic as well but have deluded themselves into thinking they're virtuous. Screaming back at someone who is being obviously provocative makes you just as bad as them.
Same goes to the people who think to counter wholesale buyers "spamming" in zone chat they should spam MM and TTC prices of every item they're buying. In what world does spamming 5-10 times more than a "spammer" sound like a logical solution?
Too many people on their high horse convincing themselves they're morally superior to everyone else
Block and move on.
Agree with the first paragrah. Not the second. I see them as different issues, even if somewhat related. There is no gain for the community when you engage with a toxic person. Just block and move on. But there is some positive benefit for the community if the zone chat scammers are being called out. A reasonable counter (posting ttc/mm prices) to discourage people buying from those individuals, who are looking to prey on the uneducated, is ok in my book. Feel free to block me and move on if you disagree.
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Eedat✭✭✭✭✭DigitalHype wrote: »Maybe people should just block people instead of feeding the trolls. I've noticed that most of the people who "defend themselves" against blatant trolls are incredibly toxic as well but have deluded themselves into thinking they're virtuous. Screaming back at someone who is being obviously provocative makes you just as bad as them.
Same goes to the people who think to counter wholesale buyers "spamming" in zone chat they should spam MM and TTC prices of every item they're buying. In what world does spamming 5-10 times more than a "spammer" sound like a logical solution?
Too many people on their high horse convincing themselves they're morally superior to everyone else
Block and move on.
Agree with the first paragrah. Not the second. I see them as different issues, even if somewhat related. There is no gain for the community when you engage with a toxic person. Just block and move on. But there is some positive benefit for the community if the zone chat scammers are being called out. A reasonable counter (posting ttc/mm prices) to discourage people buying from those individuals, who are looking to prey on the uneducated, is ok in my book. Feel free to block me and move on if you disagree.
There is a good chance I already have if you spam 10 MM prices in zone chat. "Buying these exact items for these exact prices" isn't even a scam lol. Some people just don't like dealing with traders of just want the gold now.
Weird how I don't see one single person say a thing when someone who doesn't know any better advertises something for way too cheap. I'm sure everyone returns every great deal they find on a trader with a recommend price.
Weird how that only works one way isn't it?1 -
KyraCROgnon✭✭✭The few times i ever pvp i'm the one playing the corpse, so can't really give an opinion about toxic chat
But it would seem logical to me that someone playing "offline" would be restricted from talking in "public" channels.
Limiting offline people to only /w people from friend list and only talk in guild chat , not zone or faction, that seems coherent : you're offline means you don't want to interact with unknown people; you can still talk to guildies and friends but not play the "hidden harasser" elsewhere, sounds fine.1 -
Vayln_Ninetails✭✭✭✭✭... allowing chat posts while 'off-line'
I have noticed that many (virtually all) players that post toxic messages in chat, whether it be in zone, or whispers all appear to be playing 'off-line'.
I have no issues with people playing off-line, its thier choice. However, in chosing this, they should not be allowed to communicate with the 'on-line' community with impunity.
By choosing to play offline, you should automatically lose usage of chat, whispers, messaging friends and in game emails. If you chose to play anonymously, then you should stay anonymous.
A simple way to enforce this, is at login; a tick box, asking to play on, or offline.
This would force people to log out as offline and relog as online, not just a button click in settings while logged on.
Y'all really are stretching anything you can to make it seem like zos supports toxicity.3 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »Bad idea. I know multiple players who play (or played for some time) in offline mode so they don't get harrassed.
Why should they have to choose between getting harrassed and not being able to communicate with their friends?
The problem is that if someone is set to Offline, they can whisper you, but you can't whisper them back.
I've had people greet me when they came back to the game, and I didn't see them on when I looked, so I thought I had missed them.
It was just a couple of days later when they were also chatting in guild that I realized they were accidentally set to offline.
They could have thought I was ignoring them by not responding. They didn't even realize they couldn't be whispered.
So either make it so that you can get replies if you are offline, or give them a message saying they are offline and the won't be able to get replies.The Moot Councillor0 -
DigitalHype✭✭✭✭DigitalHype wrote: »Maybe people should just block people instead of feeding the trolls. I've noticed that most of the people who "defend themselves" against blatant trolls are incredibly toxic as well but have deluded themselves into thinking they're virtuous. Screaming back at someone who is being obviously provocative makes you just as bad as them.
Same goes to the people who think to counter wholesale buyers "spamming" in zone chat they should spam MM and TTC prices of every item they're buying. In what world does spamming 5-10 times more than a "spammer" sound like a logical solution?
Too many people on their high horse convincing themselves they're morally superior to everyone else
Block and move on.
Agree with the first paragrah. Not the second. I see them as different issues, even if somewhat related. There is no gain for the community when you engage with a toxic person. Just block and move on. But there is some positive benefit for the community if the zone chat scammers are being called out. A reasonable counter (posting ttc/mm prices) to discourage people buying from those individuals, who are looking to prey on the uneducated, is ok in my book. Feel free to block me and move on if you disagree.
There is a good chance I already have if you spam 10 MM prices in zone chat. "Buying these exact items for these exact prices" isn't even a scam lol. Some people just don't like dealing with traders of just want the gold now.
Weird how I don't see one single person say a thing when someone who doesn't know any better advertises something for way too cheap. I'm sure everyone returns every great deal they find on a trader with a recommend price.
Weird how that only works one way isn't it?
I don't agree with the premise. I have and will offer the same advice if someone is selling for way too cheap in zone chat. I've even sent people tells when I see listings that are obvously a mistake and way too low. The reason you don't see, what you label as MM/TTC spam, regarding sellers advertising for too cheap in zone is because that almost never happens. 99% of the time it is buyers trying to take advantage of uninformed sellers.
I'm going to continue to do this when I see buyers trying to take advantage of the uninformed for thier personal gain. Feel free to block me in-game if you don't wish to see that.1 -
Ellimist_Entreri✭✭✭Just wait until you actually file a report about someone griefing a quest, being inactive and verbally abusive with video proof only for support to brush you off and the video analytics showing no views. Disheartening.Edited by Ellimist_Entreri on November 23, 2020 11:46PM0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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How? First it demand manpower to handle. Lets use the beta testers for thisLadyNalcarya wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.
I wish I could just ignore those people. I get hate whispers daily, from PVP when I kill people or I get killed. I absolutely hate it... I don't understand the level of insecurity that goes through peoples minds to do hate whisper, t-bag etc... I am trying to get better at just ignoring and blocking.
There is one person in particular that I have killed many times and he chases me with his group just to kill me and t-bag me. I have him blocked and have reported him, I know numerous other people who have too and he is still in game unaffected. I have seen him kill new players hate whisper and t-bag, it atrocious behaviour.
There is a problem with toxicity in this game and I'm not talking about the disagreements that naturally occur in a competitive situation, not that you should ever hate whisper because you lost in a video game. I am referring to the players that go out of their way to make other people feel *** and ZOS not doing anything about it. Surely if enough complain about the same person for the same thing something should be done.
I absolutely agree with this. Online environment often brings out the worst in people, and I think that game companies should be more serious about enforcing anti-harassment rules. After all, one of the biggest reasons why they do that is because they know they're very unlikely to be punished.
Second it will be abused. it was an tread who was deleted of an guild named bombsquad who had to change their guild name.
You know who reported them? 99% chance it was some who was killed in PvP and reported their guild name as an petty revenge.
First its just stupid to try to talk to trolls, just add to ignore list.
My ignore list is empty so I need to be better in PvP
Second: you know trolls will abuse much easier to ban people for pettiness reporting anybody using bad words after taunting you if an wipe or getting killed in pvp.
Or not giving you drops and you talk back using bad words.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭... allowing chat posts while 'off-line'
I have noticed that many (virtually all) players that post toxic messages in chat, whether it be in zone, or whispers all appear to be playing 'off-line'.
I have no issues with people playing off-line, its thier choice. However, in chosing this, they should not be allowed to communicate with the 'on-line' community with impunity.
By choosing to play offline, you should automatically lose usage of chat, whispers, messaging friends and in game emails. If you chose to play anonymously, then you should stay anonymous.
A simple way to enforce this, is at login; a tick box, asking to play on, or offline.
This would force people to log out as offline and relog as online, not just a button click in settings while logged on.
I have noticed people sometimes like to start crap with me but then when I try to message back nothing happens and my chat doesn't even go through. So perhaps this is happening to me as well?
For example: the other day I had some healer telling me off because she was doing 40% of the damage and for some reason that was suppose to be my fault. I was going to try and explain to her that just because I was using a staff that doesn't mean I was a DPS (I was the tank) and that just because the other DPS was wearing a shield and taunting things I can't be blamed for that. But when I tried to type back nothing happened..
Which brings me to my next point: if you're using the activity finder please bother check a person's combat role before you start insulting them. Don't assume everyone who is using a staff is a DPS - and don't assume everyone who is using a shield or taunting is the actual tank. Because there are some weird DPS out there who for some reason think they are tanks.Edited by Jeremy on November 23, 2020 10:11PM1 -
Zulera301✭✭✭✭✭incognito is for cowards. at the very least, they should not be allowed to whisper other players unless they can be whispered back. I dont care if they populate guild chats or zone chats; that's standard fare toxicity anyways so it wouldn't change anything at all.Shortly after the formation of the Ebonheart Pact, a Nord woman was given a tour of the Tribunal Temple. When later asked about the experience, she seemed upset. Suffice to say, the Dunmer were not pleased to hear this, and thus they inquired further.
"Well," the Nord frowned, "the priests were very angry and unwelcoming. They kept shouting things at me like "you can't drink that mead in here!" and "somebody stop her, she's running naked!" and "we can't catch her; she's covered in grease!""2 -
Rezdayn✭✭✭✭✭This has a simple answer...
1) if you are set to offline you shouldn't be able to send private tells to anyone else. You should be able to use zone, guild, group though. If you cant receive private tells you shouldn't be able to send them.
2) the ignore list needs to be much larger than 100.
It's not hard ZOS...
People have valid reasons to use offline mode. However not a single one of those reasons make sense when it comes to sending private tells...1 -
Thundertalon✭✭Does reporting not work? I have noticed an increase in abuse in chat, previously that sorta stuff was rare as the offenders would be swiftly bannedPact: DK dps & magblade; DC: magplar, PC NA
Looking to do group quests (Craglorn, IC, dungeons, etc) - just let me know0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can't whisper horde/alliance in WOW and it is a much less toxic environment as a result.
Ehhhh idk about THAT 😂😂😂
There's still your own teammates to worry about...which I will say ESO has been a much better experience in that regard lol
Heh. I quit WoW in 2013. Yeah, toxic didn't begin to describe it.... My sis and nephew still play, and.... guess what? They're still all over the "toxic" thing like snow on a Utah ski resort....1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.
Pretty much this.
Replying to rage whispers because that only adds fuel to the fire. It is much wiser to ignore such small-minded acts than to become part of it.
George Carlin shared some words of wisdom with us long ago. "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” This very much applies to receiving rage whispers in PvP or anywhere else.
Edit: Fixed quoteEdited by idk on November 24, 2020 4:03AM4 -
Faiza✭✭✭✭✭Thundertalon wrote: »Does reporting not work? I have noticed an increase in abuse in chat, previously that sorta stuff was rare as the offenders would be swiftly banned
It does not. I see the same players running around spewing the same hate filled crap all day every day.
When you report you get an auto email that says to just ignore them, but the ignore list has a cap.
I don't think anyone at ZOS understands the issue this has become ESPECIALLY recently0 -
MercilessnVexed✭✭✭✭... allowing chat posts while 'off-line'
I have noticed that many (virtually all) players that post toxic messages in chat, whether it be in zone, or whispers all appear to be playing 'off-line'.
...
Or, you could just not whisper them nasty stuff back and then they wouldn't feel like they had to be offline.
Also, you could just ignore it or block them. I mean... the ability is there... why not use it? Don't let your pride get in the way.
But wait! There's more! So what IF ZoS made it so people had to be "online" in order to use the chat function? Then they'd respond by immediately going offline after saying something you don't like.
Well then, you surmise, there should be a time limit after saying something in chat that they can't immediately go offline. Then they would simply Alt+F4 right out of there.
Well then, you say, chat logs should have to reload for the last five or ten minutes so that they HAVE to see whatever someone says back.
K Let me stop you right there. If you go down this path and then decide ZoS should use up valuable server space to hold 5 minutes or so of chat for every player JUST because you want them to see whatever possibly toxic reply you shoot back at them, RATHER THAN using up said space for gaming code for all the new content and fixits... you're just being unreasonable at this point.
Look, getting your feelers hurt is something that happens in every day life. Part of being on the internet is that keyboard warriors exist. They exist everywhere. It is absolutely unreasonable to expect someone else to deal with your hurt feelings. I know the shock value is there when you see that first comment, but ZoS has given you a tool to use for that very reason: BLOCK THEM.
Edited by MercilessnVexed on November 24, 2020 6:40AM1 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭DigitalHype wrote: »DigitalHype wrote: »Maybe people should just block people instead of feeding the trolls. I've noticed that most of the people who "defend themselves" against blatant trolls are incredibly toxic as well but have deluded themselves into thinking they're virtuous. Screaming back at someone who is being obviously provocative makes you just as bad as them.
Same goes to the people who think to counter wholesale buyers "spamming" in zone chat they should spam MM and TTC prices of every item they're buying. In what world does spamming 5-10 times more than a "spammer" sound like a logical solution?
Too many people on their high horse convincing themselves they're morally superior to everyone else
Block and move on.
Agree with the first paragrah. Not the second. I see them as different issues, even if somewhat related. There is no gain for the community when you engage with a toxic person. Just block and move on. But there is some positive benefit for the community if the zone chat scammers are being called out. A reasonable counter (posting ttc/mm prices) to discourage people buying from those individuals, who are looking to prey on the uneducated, is ok in my book. Feel free to block me and move on if you disagree.
There is a good chance I already have if you spam 10 MM prices in zone chat. "Buying these exact items for these exact prices" isn't even a scam lol. Some people just don't like dealing with traders of just want the gold now.
Weird how I don't see one single person say a thing when someone who doesn't know any better advertises something for way too cheap. I'm sure everyone returns every great deal they find on a trader with a recommend price.
Weird how that only works one way isn't it?
I don't agree with the premise. I have and will offer the same advice if someone is selling for way too cheap in zone chat. I've even sent people tells when I see listings that are obviously a mistake and way too low. The reason you don't see, what you label as MM/TTC spam, regarding sellers advertising for too cheap in zone is because that almost never happens. 99% of the time it is buyers trying to take advantage of uninformed sellers.
I'm going to continue to do this when I see buyers trying to take advantage of the uninformed for thier personal gain. Feel free to block me in-game if you don't wish to see that.
It's not taking advantage lol. Of course there is a limit and I can understand it if someone is trying to snag something worth 200k for 50k or whatever, but generally resellers offer 80-85% of market value. You are going to lose 8% to the guild trader anyway which leaves a margin of 7%-12% for the reseller. Some people are willing to pay that 7%-12% for the convenience of having someone with cash in hand to buy everything. Or maybe they don't like dealing with traders. Or maybe they need cash now. Or maybe they have hundreds of mats to sell and dont feel like spending the time to do so.
That's literally how the real world works. Retailers buy things at wholesale prices and resell them for a margin. In return, the manufacturer can unload large quantities of product at a time and don't have to worry about distribution or getting people into their stores. True predatory practices don't exist in zone chat lol. The resellers can't crush you under ridiculous interest rates or prey on people who desperately need money to put food on the table.
Which is why it's so obnoxious when people spam MM prices in chat. Instead of having one person spamming one block of text every 15 minutes in zone, we get bombarded by someone spamming 5-10 blocks of MM/TTC text then trying to pick a fight with the person. If you dont like the price, then don't buy/sell. This notion that there are a bunch of new level 25s running around getting scammed out of their purple and gold mats that they have no means to get in the first place is crazy. It's a crazy fairy tale made up by people who feel the need to virtue signal can delude themselves into thinking they're virtuous white knights instead of just spammers.
People know the prices of stuff. People know resellers offer below market value. It's definitely not a scam. The world isn't full of helpless victims that need a gallant white knight to save from themselves. Spamming MM/TTC prices 95% of the time is just that. Massive amounts of spam.Edited by Eedat on November 24, 2020 7:29AM2 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Zone/party/mails/guilds messaging is fine but I agree whispers should not be possible whilst offline mode.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on November 24, 2020 9:51AM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)2 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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How? First it demand manpower to handle. Lets use the beta testers for thisLadyNalcarya wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.
I wish I could just ignore those people. I get hate whispers daily, from PVP when I kill people or I get killed. I absolutely hate it... I don't understand the level of insecurity that goes through peoples minds to do hate whisper, t-bag etc... I am trying to get better at just ignoring and blocking.
There is one person in particular that I have killed many times and he chases me with his group just to kill me and t-bag me. I have him blocked and have reported him, I know numerous other people who have too and he is still in game unaffected. I have seen him kill new players hate whisper and t-bag, it atrocious behaviour.
There is a problem with toxicity in this game and I'm not talking about the disagreements that naturally occur in a competitive situation, not that you should ever hate whisper because you lost in a video game. I am referring to the players that go out of their way to make other people feel *** and ZOS not doing anything about it. Surely if enough complain about the same person for the same thing something should be done.
I absolutely agree with this. Online environment often brings out the worst in people, and I think that game companies should be more serious about enforcing anti-harassment rules. After all, one of the biggest reasons why they do that is because they know they're very unlikely to be punished.
Second it will be abused. it was an tread who was deleted of an guild named bombsquad who had to change their guild name.
You know who reported them? 99% chance it was some who was killed in PvP and reported their guild name as an petty revenge.
First its just stupid to try to talk to trolls, just add to ignore list.
My ignore list is empty so I need to be better in PvP
Second: you know trolls will abuse much easier to ban people for pettiness reporting anybody using bad words after taunting you if an wipe or getting killed in pvp.
Or not giving you drops and you talk back using bad words.
I'm against auto-banning (like you said, it would be abused), but they should at least ban the most egregious offenders (with proofs and investigation, of course) so that others would think twice before sending hate messages to someone. Internet harassers are cowards who think that anonymity makes them invincible, so imo the most rational way to combat harassment would be to take this feeling away from them. You don't even need to take care of every ticket, just show them that losing their account is a real possibility if they keep breaking the rules.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭...
Weird how I don't see one single person say a thing when someone who doesn't know any better advertises something for way too cheap. I'm sure everyone returns every great deal they find on a trader with a recommend price.
Weird how that only works one way isn't it?
Why would I send a message like that in zone chat? I tell those people in a /w that they are selling too cheap.
1 -
Seminolegirl1992✭✭✭✭✭... allowing chat posts while 'off-line'
I have noticed that many (virtually all) players that post toxic messages in chat, whether it be in zone, or whispers all appear to be playing 'off-line'.
I have no issues with people playing off-line, its thier choice. However, in chosing this, they should not be allowed to communicate with the 'on-line' community with impunity.
By choosing to play offline, you should automatically lose usage of chat, whispers, messaging friends and in game emails. If you chose to play anonymously, then you should stay anonymous.
A simple way to enforce this, is at login; a tick box, asking to play on, or offline.
This would force people to log out as offline and relog as online, not just a button click in settings while logged on.
I hate toxicity as much as the next person, but as a roleplayer, I often go into offline mode to be left alone, but I still want to group chat or whisper friends. Or if I'm decorating a house or in a trial but don't want to be whispered (but don't want to be excluded from group chat).@Seminolegirl1992 PC/NA CP 2700+ PVE, PVP, RP, Housing: Tel Galen, Fair Winds, Moon Sugar, Grand Psijic, Forsaken, HOTLC, Bastion, Ravenhurst, Gardner, Alinor, Hakkvild's, Gorinir, Kragenhome, Hundings, & more- feel free to come see!Misery's Master | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planesbreaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Gryphon Heart | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Dro-m'athra Destroyer | Former Empress2 -
Rezdayn✭✭✭✭✭DigitalHype wrote: »DigitalHype wrote: »Maybe people should just block people instead of feeding the trolls. I've noticed that most of the people who "defend themselves" against blatant trolls are incredibly toxic as well but have deluded themselves into thinking they're virtuous. Screaming back at someone who is being obviously provocative makes you just as bad as them.
Same goes to the people who think to counter wholesale buyers "spamming" in zone chat they should spam MM and TTC prices of every item they're buying. In what world does spamming 5-10 times more than a "spammer" sound like a logical solution?
Too many people on their high horse convincing themselves they're morally superior to everyone else
Block and move on.
Agree with the first paragrah. Not the second. I see them as different issues, even if somewhat related. There is no gain for the community when you engage with a toxic person. Just block and move on. But there is some positive benefit for the community if the zone chat scammers are being called out. A reasonable counter (posting ttc/mm prices) to discourage people buying from those individuals, who are looking to prey on the uneducated, is ok in my book. Feel free to block me and move on if you disagree.
There is a good chance I already have if you spam 10 MM prices in zone chat. "Buying these exact items for these exact prices" isn't even a scam lol. Some people just don't like dealing with traders of just want the gold now.
Weird how I don't see one single person say a thing when someone who doesn't know any better advertises something for way too cheap. I'm sure everyone returns every great deal they find on a trader with a recommend price.
Weird how that only works one way isn't it?
I don't agree with the premise. I have and will offer the same advice if someone is selling for way too cheap in zone chat. I've even sent people tells when I see listings that are obviously a mistake and way too low. The reason you don't see, what you label as MM/TTC spam, regarding sellers advertising for too cheap in zone is because that almost never happens. 99% of the time it is buyers trying to take advantage of uninformed sellers.
I'm going to continue to do this when I see buyers trying to take advantage of the uninformed for thier personal gain. Feel free to block me in-game if you don't wish to see that.
It's not taking advantage lol. Of course there is a limit and I can understand it if someone is trying to snag something worth 200k for 50k or whatever, but generally resellers offer 80-85% of market value. You are going to lose 8% to the guild trader anyway which leaves a margin of 7%-12% for the reseller. Some people are willing to pay that 7%-12% for the convenience of having someone with cash in hand to buy everything. Or maybe they don't like dealing with traders. Or maybe they need cash now. Or maybe they have hundreds of mats to sell and dont feel like spending the time to do so.
That's literally how the real world works. Retailers buy things at wholesale prices and resell them for a margin. In return, the manufacturer can unload large quantities of product at a time and don't have to worry about distribution or getting people into their stores. True predatory practices don't exist in zone chat lol. The resellers can't crush you under ridiculous interest rates or prey on people who desperately need money to put food on the table.
Which is why it's so obnoxious when people spam MM prices in chat. Instead of having one person spamming one block of text every 15 minutes in zone, we get bombarded by someone spamming 5-10 blocks of MM/TTC text then trying to pick a fight with the person. If you dont like the price, then don't buy/sell. This notion that there are a bunch of new level 25s running around getting scammed out of their purple and gold mats that they have no means to get in the first place is crazy. It's a crazy fairy tale made up by people who feel the need to virtue signal can delude themselves into thinking they're virtuous white knights instead of just spammers.
People know the prices of stuff. People know resellers offer below market value. It's definitely not a scam. The world isn't full of helpless victims that need a gallant white knight to save from themselves. Spamming MM/TTC prices 95% of the time is just that. Massive amounts of spam.
Totally agree but this community is so weird and think resellers are the devil. Most of this community probably shout at a retail store irl for doing the same thing. Joke they dont and they dont even get the irony...3 -
DigitalHype✭✭✭✭It seems evident some have an agenda.DigitalHype wrote: »DigitalHype wrote: »Maybe people should just block people instead of feeding the trolls. I've noticed that most of the people who "defend themselves" against blatant trolls are incredibly toxic as well but have deluded themselves into thinking they're virtuous. Screaming back at someone who is being obviously provocative makes you just as bad as them.
Same goes to the people who think to counter wholesale buyers "spamming" in zone chat they should spam MM and TTC prices of every item they're buying. In what world does spamming 5-10 times more than a "spammer" sound like a logical solution?
Too many people on their high horse convincing themselves they're morally superior to everyone else
Block and move on.
Agree with the first paragrah. Not the second. I see them as different issues, even if somewhat related. There is no gain for the community when you engage with a toxic person. Just block and move on. But there is some positive benefit for the community if the zone chat scammers are being called out. A reasonable counter (posting ttc/mm prices) to discourage people buying from those individuals, who are looking to prey on the uneducated, is ok in my book. Feel free to block me and move on if you disagree.
There is a good chance I already have if you spam 10 MM prices in zone chat. "Buying these exact items for these exact prices" isn't even a scam lol. Some people just don't like dealing with traders of just want the gold now.
Weird how I don't see one single person say a thing when someone who doesn't know any better advertises something for way too cheap. I'm sure everyone returns every great deal they find on a trader with a recommend price.
Weird how that only works one way isn't it?
I don't agree with the premise. I have and will offer the same advice if someone is selling for way too cheap in zone chat. I've even sent people tells when I see listings that are obviously a mistake and way too low. The reason you don't see, what you label as MM/TTC spam, regarding sellers advertising for too cheap in zone is because that almost never happens. 99% of the time it is buyers trying to take advantage of uninformed sellers.
I'm going to continue to do this when I see buyers trying to take advantage of the uninformed for thier personal gain. Feel free to block me in-game if you don't wish to see that.
It's not taking advantage lol. Of course there is a limit and I can understand it if someone is trying to snag something worth 200k for 50k or whatever, but generally resellers offer 80-85% of market value. You are going to lose 8% to the guild trader anyway which leaves a margin of 7%-12% for the reseller. Some people are willing to pay that 7%-12% for the convenience of having someone with cash in hand to buy everything. Or maybe they don't like dealing with traders. Or maybe they need cash now. Or maybe they have hundreds of mats to sell and dont feel like spending the time to do so.
That's literally how the real world works. Retailers buy things at wholesale prices and resell them for a margin. In return, the manufacturer can unload large quantities of product at a time and don't have to worry about distribution or getting people into their stores. True predatory practices don't exist in zone chat lol. The resellers can't crush you under ridiculous interest rates or prey on people who desperately need money to put food on the table.
Which is why it's so obnoxious when people spam MM prices in chat. Instead of having one person spamming one block of text every 15 minutes in zone, we get bombarded by someone spamming 5-10 blocks of MM/TTC text then trying to pick a fight with the person. If you dont like the price, then don't buy/sell. This notion that there are a bunch of new level 25s running around getting scammed out of their purple and gold mats that they have no means to get in the first place is crazy. It's a crazy fairy tale made up by people who feel the need to virtue signal can delude themselves into thinking they're virtuous white knights instead of just spammers.
People know the prices of stuff. People know resellers offer below market value. It's definitely not a scam. The world isn't full of helpless victims that need a gallant white knight to save from themselves. Spamming MM/TTC prices 95% of the time is just that. Massive amounts of spam.
If people already know this, then the MM/TTC responses poses no threat to their operation. So, that means the only issue you have is with it being too spammy. Fine. Then block me and anyone else that does this. This way you only see these buyer's helpful messages and not idiot spam from folks like me posting market values. Wasn't that your original point?
Edited by DigitalHype on November 24, 2020 10:08PM2 -
DigitalHype✭✭✭✭DigitalHype wrote: »DigitalHype wrote: »Maybe people should just block people instead of feeding the trolls. I've noticed that most of the people who "defend themselves" against blatant trolls are incredibly toxic as well but have deluded themselves into thinking they're virtuous. Screaming back at someone who is being obviously provocative makes you just as bad as them.
Same goes to the people who think to counter wholesale buyers "spamming" in zone chat they should spam MM and TTC prices of every item they're buying. In what world does spamming 5-10 times more than a "spammer" sound like a logical solution?
Too many people on their high horse convincing themselves they're morally superior to everyone else
Block and move on.
Agree with the first paragrah. Not the second. I see them as different issues, even if somewhat related. There is no gain for the community when you engage with a toxic person. Just block and move on. But there is some positive benefit for the community if the zone chat scammers are being called out. A reasonable counter (posting ttc/mm prices) to discourage people buying from those individuals, who are looking to prey on the uneducated, is ok in my book. Feel free to block me and move on if you disagree.
There is a good chance I already have if you spam 10 MM prices in zone chat. "Buying these exact items for these exact prices" isn't even a scam lol. Some people just don't like dealing with traders of just want the gold now.
Weird how I don't see one single person say a thing when someone who doesn't know any better advertises something for way too cheap. I'm sure everyone returns every great deal they find on a trader with a recommend price.
Weird how that only works one way isn't it?
I don't agree with the premise. I have and will offer the same advice if someone is selling for way too cheap in zone chat. I've even sent people tells when I see listings that are obviously a mistake and way too low. The reason you don't see, what you label as MM/TTC spam, regarding sellers advertising for too cheap in zone is because that almost never happens. 99% of the time it is buyers trying to take advantage of uninformed sellers.
I'm going to continue to do this when I see buyers trying to take advantage of the uninformed for thier personal gain. Feel free to block me in-game if you don't wish to see that.
It's not taking advantage lol. Of course there is a limit and I can understand it if someone is trying to snag something worth 200k for 50k or whatever, but generally resellers offer 80-85% of market value. You are going to lose 8% to the guild trader anyway which leaves a margin of 7%-12% for the reseller. Some people are willing to pay that 7%-12% for the convenience of having someone with cash in hand to buy everything. Or maybe they don't like dealing with traders. Or maybe they need cash now. Or maybe they have hundreds of mats to sell and dont feel like spending the time to do so.
That's literally how the real world works. Retailers buy things at wholesale prices and resell them for a margin. In return, the manufacturer can unload large quantities of product at a time and don't have to worry about distribution or getting people into their stores. True predatory practices don't exist in zone chat lol. The resellers can't crush you under ridiculous interest rates or prey on people who desperately need money to put food on the table.
Which is why it's so obnoxious when people spam MM prices in chat. Instead of having one person spamming one block of text every 15 minutes in zone, we get bombarded by someone spamming 5-10 blocks of MM/TTC text then trying to pick a fight with the person. If you dont like the price, then don't buy/sell. This notion that there are a bunch of new level 25s running around getting scammed out of their purple and gold mats that they have no means to get in the first place is crazy. It's a crazy fairy tale made up by people who feel the need to virtue signal can delude themselves into thinking they're virtuous white knights instead of just spammers.
People know the prices of stuff. People know resellers offer below market value. It's definitely not a scam. The world isn't full of helpless victims that need a gallant white knight to save from themselves. Spamming MM/TTC prices 95% of the time is just that. Massive amounts of spam.
Totally agree but this community is so weird and think resellers are the devil. Most of this community probably shout at a retail store irl for doing the same thing. Joke they dont and they dont even get the irony...
Retailers sign contracts and purchase in bulk quantites from operations dedicated to providing a product or material. They don't go around broadcasting every 5 minutes to their customer base asking them to sell products, in any quantity, below market value. I find your comparison disingenous.0 -
Rezdayn✭✭✭✭✭DigitalHype wrote: »DigitalHype wrote: »DigitalHype wrote: »Maybe people should just block people instead of feeding the trolls. I've noticed that most of the people who "defend themselves" against blatant trolls are incredibly toxic as well but have deluded themselves into thinking they're virtuous. Screaming back at someone who is being obviously provocative makes you just as bad as them.
Same goes to the people who think to counter wholesale buyers "spamming" in zone chat they should spam MM and TTC prices of every item they're buying. In what world does spamming 5-10 times more than a "spammer" sound like a logical solution?
Too many people on their high horse convincing themselves they're morally superior to everyone else
Block and move on.
Agree with the first paragrah. Not the second. I see them as different issues, even if somewhat related. There is no gain for the community when you engage with a toxic person. Just block and move on. But there is some positive benefit for the community if the zone chat scammers are being called out. A reasonable counter (posting ttc/mm prices) to discourage people buying from those individuals, who are looking to prey on the uneducated, is ok in my book. Feel free to block me and move on if you disagree.
There is a good chance I already have if you spam 10 MM prices in zone chat. "Buying these exact items for these exact prices" isn't even a scam lol. Some people just don't like dealing with traders of just want the gold now.
Weird how I don't see one single person say a thing when someone who doesn't know any better advertises something for way too cheap. I'm sure everyone returns every great deal they find on a trader with a recommend price.
Weird how that only works one way isn't it?
I don't agree with the premise. I have and will offer the same advice if someone is selling for way too cheap in zone chat. I've even sent people tells when I see listings that are obviously a mistake and way too low. The reason you don't see, what you label as MM/TTC spam, regarding sellers advertising for too cheap in zone is because that almost never happens. 99% of the time it is buyers trying to take advantage of uninformed sellers.
I'm going to continue to do this when I see buyers trying to take advantage of the uninformed for thier personal gain. Feel free to block me in-game if you don't wish to see that.
It's not taking advantage lol. Of course there is a limit and I can understand it if someone is trying to snag something worth 200k for 50k or whatever, but generally resellers offer 80-85% of market value. You are going to lose 8% to the guild trader anyway which leaves a margin of 7%-12% for the reseller. Some people are willing to pay that 7%-12% for the convenience of having someone with cash in hand to buy everything. Or maybe they don't like dealing with traders. Or maybe they need cash now. Or maybe they have hundreds of mats to sell and dont feel like spending the time to do so.
That's literally how the real world works. Retailers buy things at wholesale prices and resell them for a margin. In return, the manufacturer can unload large quantities of product at a time and don't have to worry about distribution or getting people into their stores. True predatory practices don't exist in zone chat lol. The resellers can't crush you under ridiculous interest rates or prey on people who desperately need money to put food on the table.
Which is why it's so obnoxious when people spam MM prices in chat. Instead of having one person spamming one block of text every 15 minutes in zone, we get bombarded by someone spamming 5-10 blocks of MM/TTC text then trying to pick a fight with the person. If you dont like the price, then don't buy/sell. This notion that there are a bunch of new level 25s running around getting scammed out of their purple and gold mats that they have no means to get in the first place is crazy. It's a crazy fairy tale made up by people who feel the need to virtue signal can delude themselves into thinking they're virtuous white knights instead of just spammers.
People know the prices of stuff. People know resellers offer below market value. It's definitely not a scam. The world isn't full of helpless victims that need a gallant white knight to save from themselves. Spamming MM/TTC prices 95% of the time is just that. Massive amounts of spam.
Totally agree but this community is so weird and think resellers are the devil. Most of this community probably shout at a retail store irl for doing the same thing. Joke they dont and they dont even get the irony...
Retailers sign contracts and purchase in bulk quantites from operations dedicated to providing a product or material. They don't go around broadcasting every 5 minutes to their customer base asking them to sell products, in any quantity, below market value. I find your comparison disingenous.
and I think you are trying your hardest to justify being mad about someone bartering in a online game...
/shrug1 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭... allowing chat posts while 'off-line'
I have noticed that many (virtually all) players that post toxic messages in chat, whether it be in zone, or whispers all appear to be playing 'off-line'.
I have no issues with people playing off-line, its thier choice. However, in chosing this, they should not be allowed to communicate with the 'on-line' community with impunity.
By choosing to play offline, you should automatically lose usage of chat, whispers, messaging friends and in game emails. If you chose to play anonymously, then you should stay anonymous.
A simple way to enforce this, is at login; a tick box, asking to play on, or offline.
This would force people to log out as offline and relog as online, not just a button click in settings while logged on.
How exactly do you know they're playing in offline mode and that they haven't just put you on ignore?@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
Sanguine & Psijic Group Beta Tester.
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Rheticia Le Drakisius CH782 Nightblade DC
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Stug-Grog M'God CH701 Templar DC
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Trixie Truskan CH701 Sorcerer EP
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