ZoS actively supports/encourages toxic players by...

Concrete · November 2020

... allowing chat posts while 'off-line'

I have noticed that many (virtually all) players that post toxic messages in chat, whether it be in zone, or whispers all appear to be playing 'off-line'.

I have no issues with people playing off-line, its thier choice. However, in chosing this, they should not be allowed to communicate with the 'on-line' community with impunity.
By choosing to play offline, you should automatically lose usage of chat, whispers, messaging friends and in game emails. If you chose to play anonymously, then you should stay anonymous.

A simple way to enforce this, is at login; a tick box, asking to play on, or offline.

This would force people to log out as offline and relog as online, not just a button click in settings while logged on.

LadyNalcarya · November 2020

Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.

Concrete · November 2020

Its not about perpetuating, or even responding.
Its about limiting access to something you chose to opt out of.
If you chose to play in a way that people cannot communicate with you, then, you should not be able to communicate with them.

garenthalb16_ESO · November 2020

The word 'toxic' is thrown around far too readily these days. In the majority of cases I'd wager the situation could simply be remedied by just ignoring the player in question. Either by using the actual ignore function or just by learning not to respond.

I do not believe that players as a whole need to restricted or inconvenienced just because some players do not make use of the tools available to them.

WombatNipples65 · November 2020

If you would like to respond to them you can still mail someone who is offline, dedication to the cause.

lolo_01b16_ESO · November 2020

Bad idea. I know multiple players who play (or played for some time) in offline mode so they don't get harrassed.
Why should they have to choose between getting harrassed and not being able to communicate with their friends?

danthemann5 · November 2020

No. The people that do and say toxic things in games are solely responsible for their own behavior. Blaming ZOS for the actions of idiots in-game is simply incorrect.

I'll be the first one to call out ZOS for something they screw up, but this is not one of those things.

LadyNalcarya · November 2020

Concrete wrote: »

Its not about perpetuating, or even responding.
Its about limiting access to something you chose to opt out of.
If you chose to play in a way that people cannot communicate with you, then, you should not be able to communicate with them.

There's plenty of non-toxic players who prefer to stay offline, though. For example, I know someone who's been stalked so she doesn't like to stay in online mode anymore... Some people prefer to pvp in offline mode so they don't get hate whispers (they don't send any either, mind you). Why would you punish these people?
You can report toxic players even if they're offline, I don't see the issue.

AWinterWolf · November 2020

Why punish all players who choose to play in offline mode, by banning them from talking in chat? Not all players go in offline mode to create drama or spew toxicity. Some of us like to be able to log in and not get bombarded with whispers etc. What people choose to do in offline mode is their business.

If I come across someone toxic, I put them on the ignore list, report them and move on.

Artim_X · November 2020

I play offline to avoid unwanted whispers in PvE land and toxicity in PvP land. More so in PvP land. However, being offline does not mean I will be toxic to others. I can still participate in zone chat and group chat which makes sense, while not being personally bothered with a random whisper.

The only thing I'll agree with is that playing offline should make it so that you can't whisper others, since as you say a lot people will whisper negative things and one will not be able to whisper them back.

relentless_turnip · November 2020

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.

I wish I could just ignore those people. I get hate whispers daily, from PVP when I kill people or I get killed. I absolutely hate it... I don't understand the level of insecurity that goes through peoples minds to do hate whisper, t-bag etc... I am trying to get better at just ignoring and blocking.

There is one person in particular that I have killed many times and he chases me with his group just to kill me and t-bag me. I have him blocked and have reported him, I know numerous other people who have too and he is still in game unaffected. I have seen him kill new players hate whisper and t-bag, it atrocious behaviour.

There is a problem with toxicity in this game and I'm not talking about the disagreements that naturally occur in a competitive situation, not that you should ever hate whisper because you lost in a video game. I am referring to the players that go out of their way to make other people feel *** and ZOS not doing anything about it. Surely if enough complain about the same person for the same thing something should be done.

AWinterWolf · November 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.

I wish I could just ignore those people. I get hate whispers daily, from PVP when I kill people or I get killed. I absolutely hate it... I don't understand the level of insecurity that goes through peoples minds to do hate whisper, t-bag etc... I am trying to get better at just ignoring and blocking.

There is one person in particular that I have killed many times and he chases me with his group just to kill me and t-bag me. I have him blocked and have reported him, I know numerous other people who have too and he is still in game unaffected. I have seen him kill new players hate whisper and t-bag, it atrocious behaviour.

There is a problem with toxicity in this game and I'm not talking about the disagreements that naturally occur in a competitive situation, not that you should ever hate whisper because you lost in a video game. I am referring to the players that go out of their way to make other people feel *** and ZOS not doing anything about it. Surely if enough complain about the same person for the same thing something should be done.

While I agree with your point. I think ZOS should do more to help others, and not simply allow us to add fuel to the flames by replying, or by forcing everyone in 'offline mode' to be completely cut off from communication. That is too simple a solution that hurts more than it helps.

LadyNalcarya · November 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.

I wish I could just ignore those people. I get hate whispers daily, from PVP when I kill people or I get killed. I absolutely hate it... I don't understand the level of insecurity that goes through peoples minds to do hate whisper, t-bag etc... I am trying to get better at just ignoring and blocking.

There is one person in particular that I have killed many times and he chases me with his group just to kill me and t-bag me. I have him blocked and have reported him, I know numerous other people who have too and he is still in game unaffected. I have seen him kill new players hate whisper and t-bag, it atrocious behaviour.

There is a problem with toxicity in this game and I'm not talking about the disagreements that naturally occur in a competitive situation, not that you should ever hate whisper because you lost in a video game. I am referring to the players that go out of their way to make other people feel *** and ZOS not doing anything about it. Surely if enough complain about the same person for the same thing something should be done.

I absolutely agree with this. Online environment often brings out the worst in people, and I think that game companies should be more serious about enforcing anti-harassment rules. After all, one of the biggest reasons why they do that is because they know they're very unlikely to be punished.

AWinterWolf · November 2020

@LadyNalcarya and when they are punished, it amounts to a slap on the wrist.

relentless_turnip · November 2020

AWinterWolf wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.

I wish I could just ignore those people. I get hate whispers daily, from PVP when I kill people or I get killed. I absolutely hate it... I don't understand the level of insecurity that goes through peoples minds to do hate whisper, t-bag etc... I am trying to get better at just ignoring and blocking.

There is one person in particular that I have killed many times and he chases me with his group just to kill me and t-bag me. I have him blocked and have reported him, I know numerous other people who have too and he is still in game unaffected. I have seen him kill new players hate whisper and t-bag, it atrocious behaviour.

There is a problem with toxicity in this game and I'm not talking about the disagreements that naturally occur in a competitive situation, not that you should ever hate whisper because you lost in a video game. I am referring to the players that go out of their way to make other people feel *** and ZOS not doing anything about it. Surely if enough complain about the same person for the same thing something should be done.

While I agree with your point. I think ZOS should do more to help others, and not simply allow us to add fuel to the flames by replying, or by forcing everyone in 'offline mode' to be completely cut off from communication. That is too simple a solution that hurts more than it helps.

Well exactly, wouldn't it be great if those who feel they have to play "offline" could just play without fear of harassment. The issue need to be addressed by a governing body to some degree, certainly when things get the stage where you feel you can't play in "online" mode anymore.

AWinterWolf · November 2020

@relentless_turnip In an ideal world? Yes. I do think rules should be enforced and punishments a lot stricter. As previously pointed out, people do it a few times, get away with it and continue to because they feel they can get away with it.

o4m · November 2020

At all social media it's necessary that you can choose by yourself which messages, and from whom, you receive - like a spam filter. Eso Offline mode getting more and more exploited by people that want to say something to you without getting an answer. So you read worst things before you can react - lately it wasn't even possible to set them instantly on ignore-list when they are on offline-mode.

Not every toxic speaking is straight, often it only affects you personally or the affront is indirect. Reporting wont work at that or you don't know if something ever done to this.

I would prefer that I could personally regret all messages from offline modes.

And in Cyrodiil I don't want whispers from opponent Alliances.

relentless_turnip · November 2020

AWinterWolf wrote: »

@relentless_turnip In an ideal world? Yes. I do think rules should be enforced and punishments a lot stricter. As previously pointed out, people do it a few times, get away with it and continue to because they feel they can get away with it.

Totally agree and obviously each situation has a lot of subjectivity to it. I only feel where if someone has been complained about from multiple sources about the same behaviour then that individual should be looked at and disciplined.

I have been told if I video and submit evidence then they can help. That means unblocking the individual and allowing them to be toxic. I would rather not have to do that, as with the op this kind of behaviour really bothers me.

I don't feel the option to appear offline is the issue though and doesn't address the route cause. Which as you described is individuals being allowed to do it and there for continuing to do it.

Reverb · November 2020

o4m wrote: »

At all social media it's necessary that you can choose by yourself which messages, and from whom, you receive - like a spam filter. Eso Offline mode getting more and more exploited by people that want to say something to you without getting an answer. So you read worst things before you can react - lately it wasn't even possible to set them instantly on ignore-list when they are on offline-mode.

Not every toxic speaking is straight, often it only affects you personally or the affront is indirect. Reporting wont work at that or you don't know if something ever done to this.

I would prefer that I could personally regret all messages from offline modes.

And in Cyrodiil I don't want whispers from opponent Alliances.

You can go into your chat options and deselect Tells. You can even make a new pvp tan that has only the channels you want to see while in cyrodiil.

You have control over seeing whispers, and you have control over how you respond and react. This is not something that needs developer intervention.

That said - I would support the suppression of being able to send tells while marked offline. OPs other suggestions are really unreasonable, but It makes sense to not be able to send communication while also preventing people from responding.

Emma_Overload · November 2020

danthemann5 wrote: »

No. The people that do and say toxic things in games are solely responsible for their own behavior. Blaming ZOS for the actions of idiots in-game is simply incorrect.

I'll be the first one to call out ZOS for something they screw up, but this is not one of those things.

Nah, I agree with OP. It should not even be possible for some random player to send you hate whispers to which you can not respond. The fact that you can block/ignore them AFTER the whisper pisses you off is like closing the barn door after the horses have escaped. Only ZOS can fix this, so yes, they ARE responsible. Other issues could be addressed with a setting that allows chats between guildies and listed friends in offline mode.

Raideen · November 2020

Concrete wrote: »

Its not about perpetuating, or even responding.
Its about limiting access to something you chose to opt out of.
If you chose to play in a way that people cannot communicate with you, then, you should not be able to communicate with them.

Um. No.

I choose to be offline because I choose to play with one person literally 99% of the time. I do not want to waste the time of my other "friends" by having them whisper me to run something when I am already busy playing with someone else. So, I choose to show that I am offline. However, I still need the use of zone chat just about hourly.

There are more than one legitimate reasons for a player to choose to play offline and none of them have anything to do with being toxic, mean spirited or anything. Hell, in my case I do it to be respectful to the others who are on my friends list.

Juhasow · November 2020

Concrete wrote: »

Its not about perpetuating, or even responding.
Its about limiting access to something you chose to opt out of.
If you chose to play in a way that people cannot communicate with you, then, you should not be able to communicate with them.

Now that sounds toxic.

Juhasow · November 2020

Emma_Overload wrote: »

danthemann5 wrote: »

No. The people that do and say toxic things in games are solely responsible for their own behavior. Blaming ZOS for the actions of idiots in-game is simply incorrect.

I'll be the first one to call out ZOS for something they screw up, but this is not one of those things.

Nah, I agree with OP. It should not even be possible for some random player to send you hate whispers to which you can not respond. The fact that you can block/ignore them AFTER the whisper pisses you off is like closing the barn door after the horses have escaped. Only ZOS can fix this, so yes, they ARE responsible. Other issues could be addressed with a setting that allows chats between guildies and listed friends in offline mode.

And all those issues could be fixed if people would start to care less about random chat messages they get in video game.

Faiza · November 2020

Juhasow wrote: »

Concrete wrote: »

Its not about perpetuating, or even responding.
Its about limiting access to something you chose to opt out of.
If you chose to play in a way that people cannot communicate with you, then, you should not be able to communicate with them.

Now that sounds toxic.

No, it actually makes a lot of sense.

There's a lot of guffawing in this thread because people like to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. You all know exactly the type of behavior that lead to this post, but are defending it either because you engage in it or think being edgy is cute.

I don't care about communicating with players who are toxic, but appearing offline inhibits your ability to report and block them as well. And since ZOS puts the entire onus of managing this problem onto the players who are negatively affected - that needs to be addressed.

rpa · November 2020

Pardon me, but how someone being marked offline inhibits other people's ability to report / block em? I don't get hate whispers (either I have good manners or I'm just too thick skinned to notice the hate) so I have not encountered that problem.

relentless_turnip · November 2020

rpa wrote: »

Pardon me, but how someone being marked offline inhibits other people's ability to report / block em? I don't get hate whispers (either I have good manners or I'm just too thick skinned to notice the hate) so I have not encountered that problem.

Start killing a lot of players in PvP and watch the hate fly in 👍

Seriously I do not provoke these reactions I get them for playing the game as intended. I hate this element of PvP... You shouldn't be able to whisper the other team whilst in a PvP environment... That would be job done IMO.

You can't whisper horde/alliance in WOW and it is a much less toxic environment as a result.

heaven13 · November 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

AWinterWolf wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.

I wish I could just ignore those people. I get hate whispers daily, from PVP when I kill people or I get killed. I absolutely hate it... I don't understand the level of insecurity that goes through peoples minds to do hate whisper, t-bag etc... I am trying to get better at just ignoring and blocking.

There is one person in particular that I have killed many times and he chases me with his group just to kill me and t-bag me. I have him blocked and have reported him, I know numerous other people who have too and he is still in game unaffected. I have seen him kill new players hate whisper and t-bag, it atrocious behaviour.

There is a problem with toxicity in this game and I'm not talking about the disagreements that naturally occur in a competitive situation, not that you should ever hate whisper because you lost in a video game. I am referring to the players that go out of their way to make other people feel *** and ZOS not doing anything about it. Surely if enough complain about the same person for the same thing something should be done.

While I agree with your point. I think ZOS should do more to help others, and not simply allow us to add fuel to the flames by replying, or by forcing everyone in 'offline mode' to be completely cut off from communication. That is too simple a solution that hurts more than it helps.

Well exactly, wouldn't it be great if those who feel they have to play "offline" could just play without fear of harassment. The issue need to be addressed by a governing body to some degree, certainly when things get the stage where you feel you can't play in "online" mode anymore.

Not everyone playing in offline mode is doing so because they are being harassed. I play offline when I just want to solo quest and would feel bad telling my friends no when they ask me to run pledges or come for a trial. Or I stay in offline mode when doing writs so my friends don't get "heaven13 logged on/off" x18 characters in an hour.

relentless_turnip · November 2020

heaven13 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

AWinterWolf wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Offline mode has nothing to do with encouraging toxicity.
Why would you even want to engage in verbal duels with those toxic players? Perpetuating toxicity does not help, and your opponent will probably just make fun of you and troll you even more. Report, block and move on.

I wish I could just ignore those people. I get hate whispers daily, from PVP when I kill people or I get killed. I absolutely hate it... I don't understand the level of insecurity that goes through peoples minds to do hate whisper, t-bag etc... I am trying to get better at just ignoring and blocking.

There is one person in particular that I have killed many times and he chases me with his group just to kill me and t-bag me. I have him blocked and have reported him, I know numerous other people who have too and he is still in game unaffected. I have seen him kill new players hate whisper and t-bag, it atrocious behaviour.

There is a problem with toxicity in this game and I'm not talking about the disagreements that naturally occur in a competitive situation, not that you should ever hate whisper because you lost in a video game. I am referring to the players that go out of their way to make other people feel *** and ZOS not doing anything about it. Surely if enough complain about the same person for the same thing something should be done.

While I agree with your point. I think ZOS should do more to help others, and not simply allow us to add fuel to the flames by replying, or by forcing everyone in 'offline mode' to be completely cut off from communication. That is too simple a solution that hurts more than it helps.

Well exactly, wouldn't it be great if those who feel they have to play "offline" could just play without fear of harassment. The issue need to be addressed by a governing body to some degree, certainly when things get the stage where you feel you can't play in "online" mode anymore.

Not everyone playing in offline mode is doing so because they are being harassed. I play offline when I just want to solo quest and would feel bad telling my friends no when they ask me to run pledges or come for a trial. Or I stay in offline mode when doing writs so my friends don't get "heaven13 logged on/off" x18 characters in an hour.

I'm not suggesting everyone is... I said: "those who feel they have to play offline" this suggests a scenario that affects a group of people, not everyone.

Faiza · November 2020

You can't whisper horde/alliance in WOW and it is a much less toxic environment as a result.

Ehhhh idk about THAT 😂😂😂

There's still your own teammates to worry about...which I will say ESO has been a much better experience in that regard lol

Juhasow · November 2020

Faiza wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Concrete wrote: »

Its not about perpetuating, or even responding.
Its about limiting access to something you chose to opt out of.
If you chose to play in a way that people cannot communicate with you, then, you should not be able to communicate with them.

Now that sounds toxic.

No, it actually makes a lot of sense.

There's a lot of guffawing in this thread because people like to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. You all know exactly the type of behavior that lead to this post, but are defending it either because you engage in it or think being edgy is cute.

I don't care about communicating with players who are toxic, but appearing offline inhibits your ability to report and block them as well. And since ZOS puts the entire onus of managing this problem onto the players who are negatively affected - that needs to be addressed.

That sounds toxic either.

Also You can report or block people wheter or not You or them are offline or online. ZOS "puts the entire onus of managing this "problem" onto the players" because this game have age restrictions and expecting from grow up people to manage stuff like that is pretty normal I would say. If You feel "negatively affected" by that that ZoS is not an issue here.

relentless_turnip · November 2020

Faiza wrote: »

You can't whisper horde/alliance in WOW and it is a much less toxic environment as a result.

Ehhhh idk about THAT 😂😂😂

There's still your own teammates to worry about...which I will say ESO has been a much better experience in that regard lol

Yeah totally agree 😂 I meant they eliminate the bitter rival element of it. You still get very overzealous team mates in BG's in ESO though... You know the guy bottom of the score board calling everyone noobs, but I agree that it is more prevalent in WOW.