Vampire feels too disconnected

Ryuvain · November 2020

Vampire's problem for me is mostly how out of place it feels even though we just had a whole year about it. Werewolf has a bit of this problem too but not as bad.

Blood scion feels so different from your average vampire that it's actually hard to compare them with each other. Like comparing a bull to a buffalo, they're kind of alike but far from the same.

Scions abilities are so different that little, if any, npcs share them. Mist form and vampire drain are the closest but that's mostly it. Blood scion, again, is samey but directly started to not be vampire lords. Same origin but completely different.

Don't get me started on Lamae who basically doesn't exist outside of the acquiring vampire tutorial. As far as we know she doesn't even have a blood scion form herself. It would've been perfect to have her do something or get involved during this year to give her any story at all.

I don't hate scion but with them being so different it makes me want to play a vampire lord and claw my enemies apart with my bare hands or throw blood magic.

Werewolf doesn't get this as bad, but behemoth form is so common that it doesn't make sense that we can't obtain it. Same with vampire lord at this point, so many normal level npcs who acquire the form and a ton of generic unnamed lords as well.

Tldr, can we play as normal vampires as another option? Also add vampire lord and werewolf behemoth please.

I also would love to have Lady Thorn's form. She looks amazing in comparison to what we have.

Vayln_Ninetails · November 2020

Preach it, my man.

Vampire feels very disconnected from the NPC vampires right down to the lore. As for some reason we are literally the only strain in all of Tamriel that is actively pressured to kill themselves. Since we are the only strain of vampirism in the entire game that has a suicide button and uses their own blood for attacks. Even though literally every other vampire uses their enemy's blood for attacks.

Also in their attempt to make us something that isn't as 'mythical' as a vampire lord they basically did the opposite. They made us something that not only doesn't make sense in lore, but there's only 1 of in lore to our knowledge. Vampire Lords are way more common than Blood Scions and less rare by this logic.

It'd literally make more sense for Lamae to be a vampire lord (Which by the way, no reason why they couldn't have made her one. She is *the* daughter of coldharbor.) and to give us her form due to our unique blood-state with being a soulless one hellbent on destroying molag bal.

That'd make more in lore sense than what we got.

Don't even get me started on all the cool abilities NPCs get meanwhile we got a suicide button, an ok claw swipe, mist form, a useless drain, and a more or less useless CC because every class has some form of hard CC that does something else than just CC.

Mesmerize should be a dialogue option. (Freeing up a slot for possibly a supportive vampire ability. Think like summoning a blood imp that buffs you and other vampires in the group. Or death hounds. Or Verandis's AoE channeled heal called Vampiric Vitality.)
Eviscerate' should scale off of how weak the target is (getting extra damage the lower the target is) and also have a stam morph + magicka morph. The effects on this ability should also be turned into a thing to where it's a long-range bloodbolt, but if you're close to the target it is a claw swipe. Would have been cool.
Blood frenzy should just be an effect added to the blood scion form. (Obtain 630 spell/weapon damage while in this form) Frees up a slot for an ability that actually fits vampires (preferably a bat themed AoE/gap closer that applies life steal. Makes vampires very mobile as they should be and gives us a bat ability in base-form.)
Mist form is fine, but make elusive mist actually faster than sprint (Way back in the day it actually used to increase move speed by 70%. That'd be amazing these days.) and give blood mist a bat swarm visual (seriously, hearing bites as a sound effect is so weird.)
Vampiric drain needs to either have its numbers returned to the pre-pts numbers (Where it was doing on average around 8k per tick and healing for like 40%-60% of missing hp) or be turned into a tether.

Anyone else notice they literally made the ultimate a re-skinned bone goliath, kept drain basically the same but made it worse both visually and function-wise, made a slap-stick spammable that is quite meh and uses a similar claw animation as the DK claw ability, turned blood mist into a red fart cloud/pool that deals damage, removed the stun from vampiric drain and just made it a solo ability because LUL creativity, and then decided to give us an ugly, uninspiring, boring self-sacrifice that kills ourselves for minimal power. The animations don't even look cool. And one of the morphs for scion and vampiric drain are literally useless. On top of all that they also made the skill line melee-themed without giving vamps ANY mobility or a gap closer despite old vampire having a gap closer. Have you guys TRIED playing as a necromancer vampire in PvP? Turn into Scion and watch as people just run away from you because necromancer is the only class without access to a gap closer for some reason.

This doesn't feel like a rework. It feels like a freaking butcher of what could have been a great skill line if they just copied the skills from the NPCs and/or worked off the NPC skills and gave us player variants of those.

I don't want to be a player. I wanna be a generic Vampire Bonelord because they have cooler abilities than I as a player. No other MMO has this issue of player skill to normie non-unique character NPC skill disconnect.

Ryuvain · November 2020

Fully agree. I went into Castle Thorn and was unexpectedly fangirling over Lady Thorn's design and boss fight.

She's basically everything I wanted as a vampire and even looks more attractive than the female blood scion somehow. And I don't understand that part. Going into that dungeon feels terrible as I know of what we got in comparison.

She's like the 38th or something vampire lord we've fought so them being rare doesn't hold anymore. Vampire lords now are just ordinary vampires who are powerful enough to get that form. It being off limits to us doesn't make sense.

Vayln_Ninetails · November 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Fully agree. I went into Castle Thorn and was unexpectedly fangirling over Lady Thorn's design and boss fight.

She's basically everything I wanted as a vampire and even looks more attractive than the female blood scion somehow. And I don't understand that part. Going into that dungeon feels terrible as I know of what we got in comparison.

She's like the 38th or something vampire lord we've fought so them being rare doesn't hold anymore. Vampire lords now are just ordinary vampires who are powerful enough to get that form. It being off limits to us doesn't make sense.

Exactly. That whole dungeon was hard for me too because every single NPC in there has the bat-swarm dash. And those sanguinemancers that have the AoE bat swarm summon? Oooooh.

And yeah, the lady thorn boss fight is literally exactly what I wanted from a vampire lord form. It outshines Skyrim's vamp lord form and is cooler in every aspect. It looks looks SO EPIC.

It being off limits to us also doesnt make sense when you remember we join the psyjiic order, you know, that guild of time freezing, reality bending mages that is literally known as the most mythic, legendary group of mages to ever exist.

Yet we got player-balanced reality bending and time stopping abilities didn't we? Why stop at Vampire Lords?

Vignar_Giantsbane · November 2020

I cured my only Vamp Char (Stamblade I was using for sneak speed); just not even worth it at this point 🤷

Lot of my guys use Werewolf but Vamp just sucks tbh.

Raideen · November 2020

I have been trying to build a vampire that feels/plays like a vampire because I dont want to play a sorc, or a nightblade, or a DK, or a templar, or a necromancer, or a warden....I want to play a vampire. Nothing seems to synergize in a way that makes my character feel like a vampire.

I really wish they would turn the current vampire into Scions (turned by other players) with skills similar to the old vampire, at least it had synergy with magicka classes, and then introduce vampire as a class "Purebloods" with 12 skills some of which use spells from the current version (sans the skill that strips our health for spellpower).

The class version could not be "turned", it would be a DLC that would not interrupt their current monetization model for vampires. The Pureblood could possibly turn players into Scions though.

Just my 2 cents.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · November 2020

I would be happy if we just had the option to choose the old strain of vampire or the new, instead of being forced to play along with zos' backwards vision of what it ought be. And for anyone wanting to scream at me about taking it for passives, I could care less about passives as long as they're not a hindrance, like the current iteration of vampire is. Bring the old vamp back without supernatural recovery to hush that crowd, I just want to play my vampires and NOT be punished for it.

Ryuvain · November 2020

What they could do is offer a choice during the vampire bitten quest. You can either embrace Molag Bal's power to use against him or shun it and turn to Lamae's power.

Embracing it would give you original vampire with a lot more passives and downsides like requiring feeding to keep your damage up or it drops lower than base. It would be a somewhat more hardcore version of scion but with even more powers and vampire lord.

Vampire lord you can stay in like werewolf with its own abilities and can extend it by draining blood from enemies.

You can't ignore this vampire version at all with the weakening from not feeding.

Vayln_Ninetails · November 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

What they could do is offer a choice during the vampire bitten quest. You can either embrace Molag Bal's power to use against him or shun it and turn to Lamae's power.

Embracing it would give you original vampire with a lot more passives and downsides like requiring feeding to keep your damage up or it drops lower than base. It would be a somewhat more hardcore version of scion but with even more powers and vampire lord.

Vampire lord you can stay in like werewolf with its own abilities and can extend it by draining blood from enemies.

You can't ignore this vampire version at all with the weakening from not feeding.

If they gave players a CHOICE? That'd be amazing. Getting basically Lamae's version of the line then a line based off vampire lords/molag bal vamps.

That way the current crowd would be happy and us that actually want to play as a vampire can get our subclass. If I could slot all 12 skills and have them be vampire based/themed Id be satisfied.

Then one of the ults gives me a form that gives me even FURTHER skills/improvements? Heck yeah

Silaf · November 2020

At the moment sadly being a vampire is only a demerit. The only exception is the ultimate and only in pvp. I tried to make my vampire work using ring of the pale order but it can't sustain the absurd blood frenzy price. So much for the supposed "revamp" after so many years as a vampire i'm considering abandonong it.

At this point do vampires have a single merit outside of roleplay?

Michaelkeir · November 2020

This whole thread resonates what I’ve been saying since the vamp skill-line was first revealed. I feel like we as vampires got shafted when it comes to powers compared to npc vampires. We got the left over skills and I don’t understand why. Apparently we were suppose to visually look like vampire lords until someone higher up said no to the design due to that strain of vampirism being so rare. Yet you can’t help but run into several vampire lords in this years content. I’m just saying, any game that gives basic npc enemies better looking and more fleshed out powers than your character just screams bad design.

Plus stamina characters got shafted. The vampire skill-line seems specifically designed for magic characters. Which is odd because if you were a stamina vampire before the update you might as well as cure yourself now because there are no stamina based morphs. A stamina based spam-able attack seems like common sense. More options is always best in my eyes.

And another thing that bugs me, as Ryuvain mentioned, where was Lamae Bal at during all these? It would seem fitting she’d play more into the story about vampires considering she changed the strain of her line. Similarly to how a few vampire villains in the story did so with their lines to create those new wingless Vampire Lords we see popping up all over the place. Just so much wasted potential.

What I would change matches closely with what Vayln_Ninetails stated in his post. I’d even go one step further and add little things to that list as well. Like our teleport ability used to port to wayshrines or dungeons or different zones. Instead of moving our arms in front of use like we currently have I’d change it to where we channel for a sec and then turn into a swarm of bats before we transition into the loading screen. Just for a bit of immersion.

GrimTheReaper45 · November 2020

Have a lot of thoughts on this, will try to keep this making as much sense as possible.

Checked out the vampire changes late, came back to eso and wanted to check them out. After wolfhunter dropped I was one of the people saying vampire needed an update. The reason being is I thought vampire should have its own playstyle too. After these changes I still dont think we have that. Vampire is never going to be a full build on its own, theres not enough skills. Thats fine, however we can still give vampire its own style based on how it works.

The vampires in game are a really good example of how vampire should work. When there fully feed there at there strongest and as they get hurt or tire themselves in a fight they get weaker and need to feed to restore there strength.

So this could translate to players. When your at stage 4 your at your strongest. Thats when you should see the least vampire downsides and the most buffs. As your in battle and taking damage or using your vampire skills stage 4 should become a struggle to maintain. Perhaps taking damage and using vampire skills could reduce the time remaining on stage 4 or reduce points that keep you at stage 4. Say 0-25 is stage 1, 26-50 is stage 2, 51-75 is stage 3, 76-100 is stage 4. Everytime you cast a vampire skill or take damage it reduces it by a set amount. Could also have some sort of vampire combat feed to help raise this in combat up to the max amount.

Also when you feed normally if your full feeding after that point could harvest blood, blood could be a potion for raising your vampirism in combat. Or added to regular potions to give them that effect.

Staying at full strength in combat should be the mechanic of vampires. As you lower the stages the downsides to vamp should get stronger and more difficult at least in my opinion.

Secondly These are the current problems I see with vampire

- Vampire as I said before is always going to be vampire plus something else. The increased costs to non vampire skills at stage 4 or even 3 just make it a hindrance. The vampire skills even if they were all great arnt enough for there own build and the reduced vampire skill cost isnt enough to make up for this

-The claw really is just an average spammable. The missing health part doesnt help, when your missing health thats when your on the defensive not attacking and recovering. This would have been really nice as a decent spammable that turns into an execute.

-The plus 600 damage skill is powerful, i get that your trying to balance it so it cant be active long by having it drain health. But it ends up just being very niche that not a lot of builds can utilize. Even on the ones that can, with its cost and the overall hindrances of vampire its a really toss up whether its worth it.

- The drain skill. ZOos, you already know how we feel about cast times. Channels are usually just as bad. There are very few channeled skills in game worth using and this is not one of them.

- The invisible run this is nice, but I rarely see it activated even in pvp. 3 seconds is surprisingly long in a fight.

What I do like of the current vampire:

- Mist form is perfect.

- Going with above. Mistform into strike from the shadows is really nice.

- How feeding now raises your stage. Even if right now its mostly a role play thing because stage 4 or 3 is kinda garbage. It still feels like how vampire should work.

Vevvev · November 2020

Only way to make the current vampire work and feel like a vampire is with the Ring of the Pale Order. With a proper build every cast of Blood for Blood will actually heal you, and with DoTs from outside the skill line effecting enemies you can sustain Blood Frenzy indefinitely. I still stick with Sated Fury since at that point it becomes a free burst heal you can toggle off and instantly toggle back on.

Vampiric Drain seriously needs a buff if the skill line is to work on its own without the help of that ring. It has too much health sinks and not enough self healing to keep up with them. I have no idea why ZOS thought a heal that restored missing health while being channeled was a good idea because its not. It sucks at healing, it sucks at doing damage, and its utility given to it by the morphs are just not worth it.

Garethjolnir · November 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Vampire's problem for me is mostly how out of place it feels even though we just had a whole year about it. Werewolf has a bit of this problem too but not as bad.

Blood scion feels so different from your average vampire that it's actually hard to compare them with each other. Like comparing a bull to a buffalo, they're kind of alike but far from the same.

Scions abilities are so different that little, if any, npcs share them. Mist form and vampire drain are the closest but that's mostly it. Blood scion, again, is samey but directly started to not be vampire lords. Same origin but completely different.

Don't get me started on Lamae who basically doesn't exist outside of the acquiring vampire tutorial. As far as we know she doesn't even have a blood scion form herself. It would've been perfect to have her do something or get involved during this year to give her any story at all.

I don't hate scion but with them being so different it makes me want to play a vampire lord and claw my enemies apart with my bare hands or throw blood magic.

Werewolf doesn't get this as bad, but behemoth form is so common that it doesn't make sense that we can't obtain it. Same with vampire lord at this point, so many normal level npcs who acquire the form and a ton of generic unnamed lords as well.

Tldr, can we play as normal vampires as another option? Also add vampire lord and werewolf behemoth please.

I also would love to have Lady Thorn's form. She looks amazing in comparison to what we have.

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Preach it, my man.

Vampire feels very disconnected from the NPC vampires right down to the lore. As for some reason we are literally the only strain in all of Tamriel that is actively pressured to kill themselves. Since we are the only strain of vampirism in the entire game that has a suicide button and uses their own blood for attacks. Even though literally every other vampire uses their enemy's blood for attacks.

Also in their attempt to make us something that isn't as 'mythical' as a vampire lord they basically did the opposite. They made us something that not only doesn't make sense in lore, but there's only 1 of in lore to our knowledge. Vampire Lords are way more common than Blood Scions and less rare by this logic.

It'd literally make more sense for Lamae to be a vampire lord (Which by the way, no reason why they couldn't have made her one. She is *the* daughter of coldharbor.) and to give us her form due to our unique blood-state with being a soulless one hellbent on destroying molag bal.

That'd make more in lore sense than what we got.

Don't even get me started on all the cool abilities NPCs get meanwhile we got a suicide button, an ok claw swipe, mist form, a useless drain, and a more or less useless CC because every class has some form of hard CC that does something else than just CC.

Mesmerize should be a dialogue option. (Freeing up a slot for possibly a supportive vampire ability. Think like summoning a blood imp that buffs you and other vampires in the group. Or death hounds. Or Verandis's AoE channeled heal called Vampiric Vitality.)
Eviscerate' should scale off of how weak the target is (getting extra damage the lower the target is) and also have a stam morph + magicka morph. The effects on this ability should also be turned into a thing to where it's a long-range bloodbolt, but if you're close to the target it is a claw swipe. Would have been cool.
Blood frenzy should just be an effect added to the blood scion form. (Obtain 630 spell/weapon damage while in this form) Frees up a slot for an ability that actually fits vampires (preferably a bat themed AoE/gap closer that applies life steal. Makes vampires very mobile as they should be and gives us a bat ability in base-form.)
Mist form is fine, but make elusive mist actually faster than sprint (Way back in the day it actually used to increase move speed by 70%. That'd be amazing these days.) and give blood mist a bat swarm visual (seriously, hearing bites as a sound effect is so weird.)
Vampiric drain needs to either have its numbers returned to the pre-pts numbers (Where it was doing on average around 8k per tick and healing for like 40%-60% of missing hp) or be turned into a tether.

Anyone else notice they literally made the ultimate a re-skinned bone goliath, kept drain basically the same but made it worse both visually and function-wise, made a slap-stick spammable that is quite meh and uses a similar claw animation as the DK claw ability, turned blood mist into a red fart cloud/pool that deals damage, removed the stun from vampiric drain and just made it a solo ability because LUL creativity, and then decided to give us an ugly, uninspiring, boring self-sacrifice that kills ourselves for minimal power. The animations don't even look cool. And one of the morphs for scion and vampiric drain are literally useless. On top of all that they also made the skill line melee-themed without giving vamps ANY mobility or a gap closer despite old vampire having a gap closer. Have you guys TRIED playing as a necromancer vampire in PvP? Turn into Scion and watch as people just run away from you because necromancer is the only class without access to a gap closer for some reason.

This doesn't feel like a rework. It feels like a freaking butcher of what could have been a great skill line if they just copied the skills from the NPCs and/or worked off the NPC skills and gave us player variants of those.

I don't want to be a player. I wanna be a generic Vampire Bonelord because they have cooler abilities than I as a player. No other MMO has this issue of player skill to normie non-unique character NPC skill disconnect.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Deathlord92 · November 2020

Stage 4 vampire should look healthy and be strong instead you look like your starved and weak because of that 12% ability cost.

Sephyr · November 2020

I think there's definitely a clear disconnect with how the line works in general. You know, people say "now you have to build a vampire", yet there's a few fundamental flaws with that argument;

Not every class will benefit from vampirism and unless you're running some FOTM proc sets that will just get nerfed next chapter or running something that's very niche, there are definitely classes that don't benefit from it like others do. It's why I consider Vampire to be Nightblade's fourth skill line. I've yet to see a thought inducing vampire build for necromancer that didn't hinge around a healer/proc sets just to be functional.
Players complaining about how we had to just not do anything for a free passive (Supernatural Recovery) when that's exactly what's happening with Dark Stalker, leading to a massive double standard. I know quite a few people who have complained about Supernatural Recovery, but are quite quick to defend themselves not progressing vampire staging when confronted with Dark Stalker.
Staging is no longer staple as you get weaker as you feed. You don't gain spell damage at a constant rate as well as having to use something that arguably is more risky in PvE for everyone involved in the group than just yourself, which I'll get to later.
In PvP we can no longer feed on enemy players, which should've been embraced by the development team in terms of engaging with vampirism everywhere.

So three major problems, however I only have fixes for three of them.

The first is the Dark Stalker passive. It could be introduced into Strike from the Shadows as it'd make sense to be tacked on there rather than being it's own passive anyways. This would free up a passive slot that could either be used to help fix the first, but as a start of that fix. Maybe some kind of self-synergy to gap close while in Blood Scion form or something.

The second thing is what Vevvev had said in another thread, making Blood for Blood and Blood Frenzy able to be healed by party members, but by a 50% reduction each. So if you're using both at the same time? You're not getting healed. I'm paraphrasing and watering it down, but you can read the whole thing in detail here as it's a good read! This would also fix the second problem of being targetted by smart heals because even the ring is making it where I'm leeching heals from people who potentially need them based on my health thresholds. Which has to be a massive oversight that they didn't expect to happen. We don't get the heal or the group buffs from those heals, but we still steal them. That's not healthy to the group environment at all.

The third would be allowing a custom feed mechanic for vampires in PvP, because there was no real reason to remove that for what is arguably a Blade of Woe skin that I didn't see many really asking for. There could be a check. If NPC, then kill. Else if PC? The old feed mechanic with the option to break free would happen. EzPz.

Either way, there's a lot in these responses that I'm loving and I'm actually happy that people are discussing them. Having more choices with vampire/lycanthropy strains? Yes please! Those should've been in the game ages ago. As it stands though, I'm stuck dealing with underperforming conditionals that only really work for me when I understand the nuances of my group members. I'm finding myself taking my vampires in pugs less and less, including Cyrodiil and BGs because it just feels like I'm not being a good group mate just by having it. I don't die a lot, but I feel guilty as heck when I'm using Blood Frenzy and I get targeted with heals more than my fellow DPS who needs it more.

TheBonesXXX · November 2020

I made my Dunmer Sorc hybrid a vampire, I really enjoy the new vampire skill line.

The melee spammable needs to be 7 or even 8 meters, 5 is very close. The cost is a bit much for it's damage, but Arterial procs crystal frags and that's awesome.

Blood Frenzy is too steep of a cost. But other wise a cool idea.

Mesmerize is really good in PvP.

Mist Form is always good.

Drain would be better if it was a three part DOT and not a channel. Channels don't really fit in MMOs.

I love the passives but think the downsides outweigh the upsides slightly, the fire damage received is too much for having health regen shut down when theirs not enough incoming active healing from the vamp line itself.

Otherwise I love the hell out of the new vamp.

Vayln_Ninetails · November 2020

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

I made my Dunmer Sorc hybrid a vampire, I really enjoy the new vampire skill line.

The melee spammable needs to be 7 or even 8 meters, 5 is very close. The cost is a bit much for it's damage, but Arterial procs crystal frags and that's awesome.

Blood Frenzy is too steep of a cost. But other wise a cool idea.

Mesmerize is really good in PvP.

Mist Form is always good.

Drain would be better if it was a three part DOT and not a channel. Channels don't really fit in MMOs.

I love the passives but think the downsides outweigh the upsides slightly, the fire damage received is too much for having health regen shut down when theirs not enough incoming active healing from the vamp line itself.

Otherwise I love the hell out of the new vamp.

Good that you love the vamp line and aren't discouraging people from voicing their distaste for it.

You even offer some things you think could be changed.

This is how people that like the line/disagree with this thread should post. Not discouraging us from talking our minds about it and saying "nah I dont think they should change anything" Because that invalidates our feedback.

I enjoyed your response.

Silaf · November 2020

I'm a vampire since the start of the game but i guess i will have to heal it. It's only a demerit sadly.

ManM · November 2020

I'm a bit of a broken record on the subject... but I find it horrible that as a blood scion, I can't relate to any of the actual vampire problems in the lore. Every other vampire loses their mind if they don't drink blood. I lose my mind if I do drink blood.

Furthermore, devolving into a weak trash mob (bloodfiend) is not a compelling experience.

Beleron · November 2020

I agree. Thought this would be cool to see. It feels like they where confuse when making vamp and are still not quite there.

How does this sound ????
There needs to be a larger play on blood and defying molag bal and making the power your own.
You are cursed and should feel it.
For warewolf you can only use your stuff within the ulti. You are restricted by said curse.
For vamp you should feel a downfall using abilities since you are cursed but also be able to defy the curse of molag bal's blood.

Make Eviscerate an actual single target hard jab. Make the morphs one be more dmg and the other be high crit chance on low health for pvp. Does % more dmg well using a blood skill. Meaning if you don't use the blood skills you are better off using a class skill jab instead. Making you want to use more vamp abilities.

Blood Frenzy.... Could be the same as the 33% heal morph would be a nice save in pvp. Ditch the 20% increase of cost. Make it only increase 10% a sec in dmg if you have Blood Mist on as mentioned below. This forces you to actually use more vamp skills and increases the cost but only but a benefit.

Vamp drain needs to be a magica drain only. Give this a side effect that "satisfys" frenzy if the drain is completed and burst heals you for % of missing hp.
Allow the morphs to either increase the magica or ditch it for ultimate per sec instead.

Mesmerize is fine.

Blood mist rework!
Mist form is meh. If the leechning ability vamp drain was worth a damn this would not be such a thing. This would be nice as a toggled dmg reduction buff where you "evaded" a percent of dmg and got movement speed for now being light. Made you look misty like sorc lightning form but without the dmg dealt. A morph could swap the dmg reduced for dmg increase via the light qualities of mist making you faster. This should require sacrificing blood to form "blood mist" costing hp per sec. Tank or dps but costs hp like frenzy.

The ulti is ***. Its a crap ver of necro ulti. The ulti needs to play into defying molag bal and making the power our own. As the vamp line talks about. Make it do that. Defy the downsides of going vamp 4. No negatives well it is active for say 30 sec.
For a time you regain what you traded to become a vampire. You truly make the curse your power. Make one morph drain blood from enemies around you healing you and the other increase duration. Healing to keep blood skills going or longer duration to use other abilities. This would be great with the below change.

The problem is the first vamp passive "feed"
This needs to be reworked.
Leave the health recovery and flame dmg.

For the vampire ability cost this needs to just be towards hp cost.
Instead of vamp ability cost make it blood ability cost.

At stage 4 you will have been FEEDING more.

This means you can take a higher blood loss so the hp costs of blood mist and blood frenzy are heavily decreased. But in exchange all other abilities costs increase the 12%.
The 12% applies to the drain, mesmerize and eviscerate as well as all anything that is not the 2 blood abilities. So you have to decide if your going for a "blood vamp" or not.

This means as a vamp you have a reason to play both as a stage 4 and stage 1. Instead of everyone either going stage 4 or stage 1. It means the stages have a reason. Why have stages if everyone only ever went for 1 and the other stages where never used?

TX12001rwb17_ESO · November 2020

Beleron wrote: »

The ulti is ***. Its a crap ver of necro ulti.

Actually it is superior to the Necro Ultimate, the Necro Ultimate gives you 30k health and your light and heavy attacks restore health, that is all it does, the Blood Scion may only give you 10k health but it also increases magic and stamina by 10k as well which means the damage you can deal is also increased, also 15% of all damage is restored as health and not just on light and heavy attacks, you can also detect everyone around you which given the size of the form is very helpful, the similar sized Bone Goliath does not have such a luxury.

Beleron · November 2020

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Beleron wrote: »

The ulti is ***. Its a crap ver of necro ulti.

Actually it is superior to the Necro Ultimate, the Necro Ultimate gives you 30k health and your light and heavy attacks restore health, that is all it does, the Blood Scion may only give you 10k health but it also increases magic and stamina by 10k as well which means the damage you can deal is also increased, also 15% of all damage is restored as health and not just on light and heavy attacks, you can also detect everyone around you which given the size of the form is very helpful, the similar sized Bone Goliath does not have such a luxury.

I may just honestly hate how it looks. I want to be a vamp not molag bal cosplay. I feel like its kind of out of place.
The 15% heal is meh for most classes that can self sustain very very well. Such as a stamsorc with crit surge. There is zero reason to ever use the 15% heal. This could go the same for a necro with the right morphs. The 10k stam and magica is a nice boost but the 15% heal is not as amazing as it sounds. Multiple classes can self heal well enough outside of the ulti to make that overkill that is not needed. I look at it more as... here is 10k more of whatever resource you use most to deal damage. GO! Which honestly given the 12% cost increase it feel like it is basically saying spam eviscerate. Also the hp for necro means more since some abilities scale off max hp.

Beleron · November 2020

Forgot to point out that given the 12% cost increase and the ulti giving you 10k more resource to boost dmg you are directed to spam eviscerate but you want low health to make it do more damage. The 15% heal from the ulti kinda screws that over. It breaks itself.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · November 2020

Beleron wrote: »

Forgot to point out that given the 12% cost increase and the ulti giving you 10k more resource to boost dmg you are directed to spam eviscerate but you want low health to make it do more damage. The 15% heal from the ulti kinda screws that over. It breaks itself.

Spam Eviscerate? have you not played a Stamina Vampire? such a thing is possible and truth be told they are probably stronger then magic Vampires.

Beleron · November 2020

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Beleron wrote: »

Forgot to point out that given the 12% cost increase and the ulti giving you 10k more resource to boost dmg you are directed to spam eviscerate but you want low health to make it do more damage. The 15% heal from the ulti kinda screws that over. It breaks itself.

Spam Eviscerate? have you not played a Stamina Vampire? such a thing is possible and truth be told they are probably stronger then magic Vampires.

Yes. You are not wrong.
I am saying something else about the design. You are correct about your statement.

Vamp ability penalty 12% --- > more likely to spam a vamp ability over non vamp.
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Blood for blood or AB do more dmg when your health is low.
Looking at blood for blood as the damage is just simply higher given the example.
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Wanting to use this outside of the ulti and not die requires you to have self healing sustain.
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Something like sorcs crit suge for self healing where as a couple hits of blood for blood could full heal you.
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The added damage of 10k more stat from the ulti making something like crit surge heal for even more.
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The 15% heal is really pointless since you can nearly full heal off 1 - 2 hits with a non ulti buff you put on for 33 sec at a time.

Other classes have similar like necro's stam scythe.

The 15% is great it really is. But not on a ulti.
You can spam blood for blood with zero need for ANY ulti to sustain the cost. It can be done without needing ulti skills. So why lock spamming a jab to only when the ulti is up? You would work around that to jab at all/any time right? So then the 15% is kinda pointless if its locked on a ulti when there is no need to restrict yourself like that. The ulti is just not worth it given the non ulti alternatives from my view. It may be different to others but for me I see no reason to use it. Oh and it looks like crap.

zvavi · November 2020

Vampire feels too disconnected

they are getting the error of account already logged in man, give it a few years.