Invincible werewolves

Ryuvain · November 2020

Use stuns and immobilize them to waste their stamina and get distance. Spam bow poison, class poison, or alchemy poison.

Alternatively exist as stam dk.
Not saying werewolf is bad, but fighting them up close without using their counters hurt.

YandereGirlfriend · November 2020

I usually try not to hop on the Nerf Bus but WW IS pretty absurd right now, especially when compared to, say, Vampires.

In Cyrodiil, it's possible to remain de facto perma-transformed due to all of the random NPC guards as well as ungrouped questers that can be counted on to supply a limitless amount of corpses for them to consume.

Some might say "Oh, but the Fighters Guild abilities" but there are only two skills in that entire line that actually do damage (I'm not counting Trap) and one of them is an Ultimate. Compare that to Vampires where nearly all casters are using Inferno Staves, Flame Damage abilities are both commonplace and popular, and, oh yeah, they also take the same increased damage that Werewolves do from Thieves Guild abilities... ON TOP OF the reduced Health Regen and increased skill costs that they have simply for existing at any Stage as a Vampire.

So in sum, I'd like to see two things happen: 1) Vampires need some additional power budget (and skill re-works) tossed their way, and 2) the Nerf Bus should back up over WWs a few times.

Girl_Number8 · November 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I usually try not to hop on the Nerf Bus but WW IS pretty absurd right now, especially when compared to, say, Vampires.

In Cyrodiil, it's possible to remain de facto perma-transformed due to all of the random NPC guards as well as ungrouped questers that can be counted on to supply a limitless amount of corpses for them to consume.

Some might say "Oh, but the Fighters Guild abilities" but there are only two skills in that entire line that actually do damage (I'm not counting Trap) and one of them is an Ultimate. Compare that to Vampires where nearly all casters are using Inferno Staves, Flame Damage abilities are both commonplace and popular, and, oh yeah, they also take the same increased damage that Werewolves do from Thieves Guild abilities... ON TOP OF the reduced Health Regen and increased skill costs that they have simply for existing at any Stage as a Vampire.

So in sum, I'd like to see two things happen: 1) Vampires need some additional power budget (and skill re-works) tossed their way, and 2) the Nerf Bus should back up over WWs a few times.

You really don’t use vampy right if you don’t understand how fing hard you can hit. Vampy is must on quite a few builds it is actually what makes it work. And dropping WWs for a vampy is not an issue.

I am all for buffing vampires. On the other hand, if you cannot drop a WW health build or put them on the defensive till they die, then no amount of buffs are going to help you.

Thanks to the casuals wanting nerfs for everything that ever killed them in a game, we went from stat dense builds to this procs galore. And they’re still complaining.

I mean how much more easier do you want things? If you think a WW is so OP play it.

When all these nerfs started it was because new players were upset that they and their friends got out played by better players. They want to beat a seasoned PvPer main that has been playing for years and feel it is unfair that they cannot. These are the same people that finally Zerg down a good player and the ones that didn’t do anything run up and bag em.

That is what is unbalanced. Players wanting ZOS to nerf things rather then get better at a game.

Scaletho · November 2020

This is NOT due werewolf skills. Those guys use a insanely (and unfair) build sets, giving basically a "GOD mode". I saw the SAME situation in Dragonknights, Necros, Templars and even Nightblades.

Don't blame the Werewolf skill line. My toons use very strong Builds and are all Werewolves, despite that I can't perform in such way.

YandereGirlfriend · November 2020

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I usually try not to hop on the Nerf Bus but WW IS pretty absurd right now, especially when compared to, say, Vampires.

In Cyrodiil, it's possible to remain de facto perma-transformed due to all of the random NPC guards as well as ungrouped questers that can be counted on to supply a limitless amount of corpses for them to consume.

Some might say "Oh, but the Fighters Guild abilities" but there are only two skills in that entire line that actually do damage (I'm not counting Trap) and one of them is an Ultimate. Compare that to Vampires where nearly all casters are using Inferno Staves, Flame Damage abilities are both commonplace and popular, and, oh yeah, they also take the same increased damage that Werewolves do from Thieves Guild abilities... ON TOP OF the reduced Health Regen and increased skill costs that they have simply for existing at any Stage as a Vampire.

So in sum, I'd like to see two things happen: 1) Vampires need some additional power budget (and skill re-works) tossed their way, and 2) the Nerf Bus should back up over WWs a few times.

You really don’t use vampy right if you don’t understand how fing hard you can hit. Vampy is must on quite a few builds it is actually what makes it work. And dropping WWs for a vampy is not an issue.

I am all for buffing vampires. On the other hand if you can not drop a WW health build or put them on the defensive till they die, then no amount of buffs are going to help you.

You're arguing against a point I'm not making.

Fighting against a single WW as a vampire isn't that bad... though they're also, coincidentally enough, perhaps the only spec in the game that doesn't actually have access to anything that uniquely hurts you as a vampire (e.g. Flame Damage, Fighters Guild abilities, Defile on a high-Stage vampire is more humorous than deadly).

I'm speaking more to the excessive number of penalties that are applied to vampires versus the relative lack of meaningful drawbacks for WWs. WWs are intended to be balanced by their transformation duration as well as being confined to using only WW skills, but, as I've already stated, the transformation limitation is all but irrelevant in Cyrodiil and the WW line is a feature-complete class kit full of universally powerful skills (compare, say, the magCro ability suite to the WW ability suite and all of the magCro sobbing will be audible from space).

So ultimately, if WW is intended to be balanced by the those modest penalties but both of them are either easily circumvented or else turn out to be not much of a penalty at all due to the innate strength of the class kit, then what, exactly, is left actually balancing WW? It is a kiss-curse lacking most of the curse.

Girl_Number8 · November 2020

Scaletho wrote: »

This is NOT due werewolf skills. Those guys use a insanely (and unfair) build sets, giving basically a "GOD mode". I saw the SAME situation in Dragonknights, Necros, Templars and even Nightblades.

Don't blame the Werewolf skill line. My toons use very strong Builds and are all Werewolves, despite that I can't perform in such way.

What god build lol

I know pretty much every way to run most things and most people are using a variation of the same sets for non WW too.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I usually try not to hop on the Nerf Bus but WW IS pretty absurd right now, especially when compared to, say, Vampires.

In Cyrodiil, it's possible to remain de facto perma-transformed due to all of the random NPC guards as well as ungrouped questers that can be counted on to supply a limitless amount of corpses for them to consume.

Some might say "Oh, but the Fighters Guild abilities" but there are only two skills in that entire line that actually do damage (I'm not counting Trap) and one of them is an Ultimate. Compare that to Vampires where nearly all casters are using Inferno Staves, Flame Damage abilities are both commonplace and popular, and, oh yeah, they also take the same increased damage that Werewolves do from Thieves Guild abilities... ON TOP OF the reduced Health Regen and increased skill costs that they have simply for existing at any Stage as a Vampire.

So in sum, I'd like to see two things happen: 1) Vampires need some additional power budget (and skill re-works) tossed their way, and 2) the Nerf Bus should back up over WWs a few times.

You really don’t use vampy right if you don’t understand how fing hard you can hit. Vampy is must on quite a few builds it is actually what makes it work. And dropping WWs for a vampy is not an issue.

I am all for buffing vampires. On the other hand if you can not drop a WW health build or put them on the defensive till they die, then no amount of buffs are going to help you.

You're arguing against a point I'm not making.

Fighting against a single WW as a vampire isn't that bad... though they're also, coincidentally enough, perhaps the only spec in the game that doesn't actually have access to anything that uniquely hurts you as a vampire (e.g. Flame Damage, Fighters Guild abilities, Defile on a high-Stage vampire is more humorous than deadly).

I'm speaking more to the excessive number of penalties that are applied to vampires versus the relative lack of meaningful drawbacks for WWs. WWs are intended to be balanced by their transformation duration as well as being confined to using only WW skills, but, as I've already stated, the transformation limitation is all but irrelevant in Cyrodiil and the WW line is a feature-complete class kit full of universally powerful skills (compare, say, the magCro ability suite to the WW ability suite and all of the magCro sobbing will be audible from space).

So ultimately, if WW is intended to be balanced by the those modest penalties but both of them are either easily circumvented or else turn out to be not much of a penalty at all due to the innate strength of the class kit, then what, exactly, is left actually balancing WW? It is a kiss-curse lacking most of the curse.

I am not arguing, I was correcting a person that wanted nerfs.

I mean you just went from ‘the nerf bus backing up over WW a few times’ to fighting a WW is not that bad....

Mythics
Procs Sets
New Arena weapons
There is even a Sheo hammer
all causal PvP gems

ummmm, not seeing any real issues beyond what the game was turned into by newer or inexperienced players.

If something is so great whether it is a certain class or a current meta, then by all means play it. If WW is so much better then Vampy then why are you not playing it?

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too but through Nerfs.

ZOS needs to stop the hand holding and either return PvP back before the procolypse or not. Players need to learn how to not be so salty when they die in a game and have fun.

ccfeeling · November 2020

Please add 4 mins hard reset WW god mode timer, thats the most ez soulton.

Chrlynsch · November 2020

I haven't seen any invisible werewolves anywhere...

pleximus · November 2020

The werewolves are destroying pvp right now on PC NA, Blackreach campaign. I'm so put off by the game now with ball groups that keep crashing the game and 100 invincible werewolves spamming the campaign. CRASH GALORE!!

Canceling my ESO+. I hope ZOS is happy with unhappy customers.

Jaraal · November 2020

pleximus wrote: »

100 invincible werewolves

Wait, they raised the population cap? Do you have proof of this?

vesselwiththepestle · November 2020

Prisoner's rags on Werewolf = unlimited sustain. Sprint to get magicka, use heal to heal up and then get stamina. If you are running out of Magicka, just run again a bit. When you see Werewolves running and howling (heal/stamina sustain), you know they wear Prisoner's rags and try to be invincible. The second item set might differ.

pleximus · November 2020

Jaraal wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

100 invincible werewolves

Wait, they raised the population cap? Do you have proof of this?

It's hyperbole. I just used it to express how ridiculous it is with an invincible werewolf zerg.

Curious_Death · November 2020

ccfeeling wrote: »

Please add 4 mins hard reset WW god mode timer, thats the most ez soulton.

pls dont speak about things u dont use... its like pls make vampire to play only at night

Curious_Death · November 2020

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Prisoner's rags on Werewolf = unlimited sustain. Sprint to get magicka, use heal to heal up and then get stamina. If you are running out of Magicka, just run again a bit. When you see Werewolves running and howling (heal/stamina sustain), you know they wear Prisoner's rags and try to be invincible. The second item set might differ.

another guy who dont play but speaks - if u get EVEN 1 HP dmg (in proc meta impossible to have 100% hp) u waste whole magicka and u get poop not stamina

TequilaFire · November 2020

The sets I wear on WW make my stamsorc just as hard to kill in human form.
I wear no rags. lol

Qbiken · November 2020

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Prisoner's rags on Werewolf = unlimited sustain. Sprint to get magicka, use heal to heal up and then get stamina. If you are running out of Magicka, just run again a bit. When you see Werewolves running and howling (heal/stamina sustain), you know they wear Prisoner's rags and try to be invincible. The second item set might differ.

Prisoners Rags on werewolf....

What is this, 2016-2017 ww meta? @Chrlynsch

jircris11 · November 2020

This is why I dislike pvp. Its always nerf this and that. I have had NO ISSUES with werewolfs in pvp. Poison them to death, problem solved. The issue now days is simple, it's not the class it's the players. No one wants to figure out how to counter anything, they just want to be told how or have an "i win" button. Though ww is strong, it's far from unbeatable. I have seen vampires do some insane stuff as well.

Dracane · November 2020

This is what happens when a small vocal minority blinds ZoS.
Werewolf have been crazy since a long time and these forum Wolfies somehow managed to squeeze out more buffs.

30% stamina, 18% weapon damage, 10k resistence and 100 other buffs/debuffs.
Who in their right mind considers this balanced?

Werewolves now have the highest damage potential in pvp, best tankiness and pretty much unmatched mobility.
I would report every packleader werewolf on sight for abusing the bug with the wolves that count as player werewolves.

Dracane · November 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I usually try not to hop on the Nerf Bus but WW IS pretty absurd right now, especially when compared to, say, Vampires.

In Cyrodiil, it's possible to remain de facto perma-transformed due to all of the random NPC guards as well as ungrouped questers that can be counted on to supply a limitless amount of corpses for them to consume.

Some might say "Oh, but the Fighters Guild abilities" but there are only two skills in that entire line that actually do damage (I'm not counting Trap) and one of them is an Ultimate. Compare that to Vampires where nearly all casters are using Inferno Staves, Flame Damage abilities are both commonplace and popular, and, oh yeah, they also take the same increased damage that Werewolves do from Thieves Guild abilities... ON TOP OF the reduced Health Regen and increased skill costs that they have simply for existing at any Stage as a Vampire.

So in sum, I'd like to see two things happen: 1) Vampires need some additional power budget (and skill re-works) tossed their way, and 2) the Nerf Bus should back up over WWs a few times.

Not to mention that you have to be a stamina spec to have any "counter" against them. Fighters guild and poison damage hits for nothing on a magicka spec. Luckily everyone plays stamina now, yes?

Chrlynsch · November 2020

Dracane wrote: »

This is what happens when a small vocal minority blinds ZoS.
Werewolf have been crazy since a long time and these forum Wolfies somehow managed to squeeze out more buffs.

30% stamina, 18% weapon damage, 10k resistence and 100 other buffs/debuffs.
Who in their right mind considers this balanced?

Werewolves now have the highest damage potential in pvp, best tankiness and pretty much unmatched mobility.
I would report every packleader werewolf on sight for abusing the bug with the wolves that count as player werewolves.

... that isn't a bug...

Call of the pack:
Reduces the cost of remaining in your Werewolf Transformation by 20% for each transformed werewolf or direwolf in your group, including yourself, up to a maximum of 80%.

Jaraal · November 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Werewolves now have the highest damage potential in pvp, best tankiness and pretty much unmatched mobility.

How do you figure that? Werewolves don't even have access to weapon passives. And they certainly can't out tank a Goliathed necro, and they have no way to purge snares, roots, or stuns.

Sounds like a lot of people are just afraid of the big bad wolf. Counter them and live worry free!

Dracane · November 2020

Jaraal wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Werewolves now have the highest damage potential in pvp, best tankiness and pretty much unmatched mobility.

How do you figure that? Werewolves don't even have access to weapon passives. And they certainly can't out tank a Goliathed necro, and they have no way to purge snares, roots, or stuns.

Sounds like a lot of people are just afraid of the big bad wolf. Counter them and live worry free!

You can not counter them.
And so one single spec, for 20 seconds being able to make a stand against WWs makes them okay?

[Snip]
Everyone now knows that ZoS went too far with the overbuffs to Werewolves. You can not conceal it anymore.

That was like when I was a pet sorcerer years before everyone else. They were always strong, just like WW, but the public did not see it. Then, some buffs made everyone use it and now pets are nearly as bad as on release. Incoming.

[Edited for bait]

Jaraal · November 2020

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Prisoner's rags on Werewolf = unlimited sustain. Sprint to get magicka, use heal to heal up and then get stamina. If you are running out of Magicka, just run again a bit. When you see Werewolves running and howling (heal/stamina sustain), you know they wear Prisoner's rags and try to be invincible. The second item set might differ.

If you really wanted to give up a damage set for a sustain set, you'd be better off running Hunt Leader for passive healing and stamina regeneration. Kudos for thinking outside the box, but that seems like doing things the hard way IMHO.

Dracane · November 2020

Jaraal wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Prisoner's rags on Werewolf = unlimited sustain. Sprint to get magicka, use heal to heal up and then get stamina. If you are running out of Magicka, just run again a bit. When you see Werewolves running and howling (heal/stamina sustain), you know they wear Prisoner's rags and try to be invincible. The second item set might differ.

If you really wanted to give up a damage set for a sustain set, you'd be better off running Hunt Leader for passive healing and stamina regeneration. Kudos for thinking outside the box, but that seems like doing things the hard way IMHO.

When you have 30% stamina, you can give up a damage set easily.
Werewolf is so overloaded as it is, they still destroy with that setup.

Jaraal · November 2020

Dracane wrote: »

[Snip]
Everyone now knows that ZoS went too far with the overbuffs to Werewolves. You can not conceal it anymore.
[Edited for bait]

So let's hear your experience with playing a werewolf. You are speaking from experience, aren't you?

I've been playing them on different characters with different setups since before Wolfhunter. And the current werewolf is nowhere near as good as it was back then. I've destroyed the fearful and uninformed, and been told I'm overpowered, I must be cheating, etc. And I've also had my butt handed to me by those who took the time to do some research and knew exactly how to counter me, too.

The only difference between now and then is the proc meta. Syvarra's got buffed, and the other sets people are using are newer and put out much more DPS than the older sets. So nobody's gonna be giving up all that damage to get more resources on skills that have cooldowns anyway.

[Snip] Clearly ZOS is happy with how they (we) are performing, or they would have swung the nerf hammer by now, right? Or maybe they just know like everybody else that the counters are out there for those who wish to take advantage of them.

[Edited for removed content]

oXI_Viper_IXo · November 2020

jircris11 wrote: »

This is why I dislike pvp. Its always nerf this and that. I have had NO ISSUES with werewolfs in pvp. Poison them to death, problem solved. The issue now days is simple, it's not the class it's the players. No one wants to figure out how to counter anything, they just want to be told how or have an "i win" button. Though ww is strong, it's far from unbeatable. I have seen vampires do some insane stuff as well.

Please, show us some clips of you simply "poisoning them do death." There should be no problem if it's as easy as you claim.

You sound like someone who is crutching on WW and doesn't want their easy carry taken away.

Nomadic_Atmoran · November 2020

JamieAubrey wrote: »

You must play on PC/EU and have came across the same WW group

PS4 NA here. Run into the EP WW pack every time my guild goes Blue or Yellow in Sewers.

ccfeeling · November 2020

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

This is why I dislike pvp. Its always nerf this and that. I have had NO ISSUES with werewolfs in pvp. Poison them to death, problem solved. The issue now days is simple, it's not the class it's the players. No one wants to figure out how to counter anything, they just want to be told how or have an "i win" button. Though ww is strong, it's far from unbeatable. I have seen vampires do some insane stuff as well.

Please, show us some clips of you simply "poisoning them do death." There should be no problem if it's as easy as you claim.

You sound like someone who is crutching on WW and doesn't want their easy carry taken away.

Rofl. Hes funny

The_Old_Goat · November 2020

How do you counter 3 or more ww's running Crimson Twilight and Eternal vigor, asking for a friend...

Jaraal · November 2020

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

How do you counter 3 or more ww's running Crimson Twilight and Eternal vigor, asking for a friend...

Bring a couple friends and chain stun/fear them with Mass Hysteria, Turn Evil, Agony Totem, Arachnophobia (bonus aoe poison damage), w/e...... cast Stampede with a multi-poison glyphed Maelstrom battleaxe which procs aoe poison dots from Syvarra's and Venomous Smite.... or bleed aoes like Unleashed Terror, Pillar of Nirn, etc. Keep them off-balanced, stunned, and dotted in between LAs and HAs, collect AP, and move on.

You know what people complain in game about more than werewolves? Getting chain feared. Keep mashing that big heal button and watch nothing happen as you're frozen and getting burned down. Where's my purge?! Oh, that's right..... werewolf skills don't include one.