Invincible werewolves

pleximus

The game is INSANELY unbalanced when you have 3 damn werewolves that are impossible to kill! They can take a keep without anyone standing a chance in hell with their 42k health! What in the actual hell is this?!? Are you at ZOS actually planning on rectifying this unbalance AT ALL??

JhonathanD

pleximus wrote: »

The game is INSANELY unbalanced when you have 3 damn werewolves that are impossible to kill! They can take a keep without anyone standing a chance in hell with their 42k health! What in the actual hell is this?!? Are you at ZOS actually planning on rectifying this unbalance AT ALL??

Sorry, but i have 54k health)))


But seriously, no one plays what they are trying to balance, and, moreover, they do not listen or read player reviews

Starlight_Whisper

Try pvp sub forum

pleximus

JhonathanD wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

The game is INSANELY unbalanced when you have 3 damn werewolves that are impossible to kill! They can take a keep without anyone standing a chance in hell with their 42k health! What in the actual hell is this?!? Are you at ZOS actually planning on rectifying this unbalance AT ALL??

Sorry, but i have 54k health)))


But seriously, no one plays what they are trying to balance, and, moreover, they do not listen or read player reviews

I think that you're correct which is quite depressing.

ccfeeling

If they could keep the WW form forever , yes , it's a problem .

Lysette

The whole thing with balance in pvp (as in equally able) is just important when you have a sports-like situation with equal numbers of opponents. But then again that is valid for a sport, not so in a war. In a war you try to be anything else than balanced. Like Sun Tzu said "don't start a fight you haven't won already" - the heart and soul of open pvp is imbalance and inequality - outnumber or outsmart an opponent - all that is completely valid in a war - not so in sports. So what is pvp in ESO? I thought it is supposed to be a war.

Jaraal

pleximus wrote: »

The game is INSANELY unbalanced when you have 3 damn werewolves that are impossible to kill!

Werewolves take extra damage from poison and Fighter's Guild skills. They also don't have access to a Purge skill, so they are very susceptible to being CC'd and DOTed. Their heal is also magicka based, and easy to deplete. Run a couple AOE DOT proc sets and/or thorns/reflect. Turn Evil (5 second AOE fear skill) is available to anyone. Use it.

Flaaklypa

Lysette wrote: »

The whole thing with balance in pvp (as in equally able) is just important when you have a sports-like situation with equal numbers of opponents. But then again that is valid for a sport, not so in a war. In a war you try to be anything else than balanced. Like Sun Tzu said "don't start a fight you haven't won already" - the heart and soul of open pvp is imbalance and inequality - outnumber or outsmart an opponent - all that is completely valid in a war - not so in sports. So what is pvp in ESO? I thought it is supposed to be a war.

Its not. PvP in eso is supposed to be a fair, competetive and fun experience. Stated so by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom herself

pleximus

Jaraal wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

The game is INSANELY unbalanced when you have 3 damn werewolves that are impossible to kill!

Werewolves take extra damage from poison and Fighter's Guild skills. They also don't have access to a Purge skill, so they are very susceptible to being CC'd and DOTed. Their heal is also magicka based, and easy to deplete. Run a couple AOE DOT proc sets and/or thorns/reflect. Turn Evil (5 second AOE fear skill) is available to anyone. Use it.

We used oils and cold fire ballistas on them but it did nothing at all. They kept out-healing the damage whether they have purge or not. Fighting them is depressing and pointless. It just feels like trolling on an epic level.

Lysette

Flaaklypa wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The whole thing with balance in pvp (as in equally able) is just important when you have a sports-like situation with equal numbers of opponents. But then again that is valid for a sport, not so in a war. In a war you try to be anything else than balanced. Like Sun Tzu said "don't start a fight you haven't won already" - the heart and soul of open pvp is imbalance and inequality - outnumber or outsmart an opponent - all that is completely valid in a war - not so in sports. So what is pvp in ESO? I thought it is supposed to be a war.

Its not. PvP in eso is supposed to be a fair, competetive and fun experience. Stated so by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom herself

Ok, if it is meant to be a fun experience that is on player-level then and not on character.level - let's see then:

1. it is fair, because any player has access to the same races and classes.
2. is it competitive?- well, somewhat - dead people rejoining the fight within seconds is meh though
3. it would be totally balanced, if all would be naked and unarmed - but this would be boring

Well and so is making all the classes being equally able - total balance as in having the same abilities just with other names is boring. In a real competition in nature balance is when there is high amount of diversity - not when all are the same. The design of pvp in ESO is just plain wrong.

Curious_Death

pleximus wrote: »

The game is INSANELY unbalanced when you have 3 damn werewolves that are impossible to kill! They can take a keep without anyone standing a chance in hell with their 42k health! What in the actual hell is this?!? Are you at ZOS actually planning on rectifying this unbalance AT ALL??

same with three wardens/necromancers/dragonknights/templars/nighblades/sorcerers - if build for sustain+tankiness then stack ulti and wipe [snip] that follows them 1 by 1

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

Vlad9425

Lysette wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The whole thing with balance in pvp (as in equally able) is just important when you have a sports-like situation with equal numbers of opponents. But then again that is valid for a sport, not so in a war. In a war you try to be anything else than balanced. Like Sun Tzu said "don't start a fight you haven't won already" - the heart and soul of open pvp is imbalance and inequality - outnumber or outsmart an opponent - all that is completely valid in a war - not so in sports. So what is pvp in ESO? I thought it is supposed to be a war.

Its not. PvP in eso is supposed to be a fair, competetive and fun experience. Stated so by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom herself

Ok, if it is meant to be a fun experience that is on player-level then and not on character.level - let's see then:

1. it is fair, because any player has access to the same races and classes.
2. is it competitive?- well, somewhat - dead people rejoining the fight within seconds is meh though
3. it would be totally balanced, if all would be naked and unarmed - but this would be boring

Well and so is making all the classes being equally able - total balance as in having the same abilities just with other names is boring. In a real competition in nature balance is when there is high amount of diversity - not when all are the same. The design of pvp in ESO is just plain wrong.

What you’re saying is true but it doesn’t take away from the fact that WW is broken OP right now. The best course of action would be for ZOS to keep it as strong as it is now but reduce the amount of time you can stay in WW form imo.

BalticBlues

ESO PvP turned into Elder Stamina Online
with a HeavyArmor meta about two years ago.

Consequently, ZOS crippled Vampires who are now self-killing weirdos
and buffed WWs into almost invincible PvP gods with a one-superskill-bar.

Consequently, ZOS even added a Malacath ring and Stam Procsets
so that even 50k Heavy-Armor-Stamtanks can auto-kill the last few Light-Armor-Magusers.

7 years after release - and ESO PvP finally is a complete unbalanced mess.

Daemons_Bane

I know that I am gonna be unpopular since I use one if these werewolves, although I don't recognize the invincible part.. but I ask anyway, what build would you use that involves the malacath ring?? Mine uses 2 armor sets and a monster set, but lacks damage, so the ring would probably help

PeterUnlustig

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I know that I am gonna be unpopular since I use one if these werewolves, although I don't recognize the invincible part.. but I ask anyway, what build would you use that involves the malacath ring?? Mine uses 2 armor sets and a monster set, but lacks damage, so the ring would probably help

Crimson, eternal vigor, mala 1 piece domi would prob be meta.

Daemons_Bane

PeterUnlustig wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I know that I am gonna be unpopular since I use one if these werewolves, although I don't recognize the invincible part.. but I ask anyway, what build would you use that involves the malacath ring?? Mine uses 2 armor sets and a monster set, but lacks damage, so the ring would probably help

Crimson, eternal vigor, mala 1 piece domi would prob be meta.

Sounds interesting I use some crimson, but nothing else on that list

Sarannah

Not in PvP, but in PvE dungeons I too have noticed werewolves are insanely strong.

Daemons_Bane

Sarannah wrote: »

Not in PvP, but in PvE dungeons I too have noticed werewolves are insanely strong.

Tbh, it's pretty easy to be strong in PvE the strongest people are still the min/maxers with their perfect gear and rotations tho

JamieAubrey

You must play on PC/EU and have came across the same WW group

ankerous

ccfeeling wrote: »

If they could keep the WW form forever , yes , it's a problem .

You can sort of do this with ravage health potions. They damage you which helps keep your form active as if you are in combat.

I use them to keep my form in trials/dungeons where mechanics have to be explained or longer gaps of enemies happen.

It doesn't truly allow you to keep it indefinitely but it does help a great deal with prolonging it.

ZarkingFrued

WWs have been broken since they turned them into PVP gods. Theres a reason everyone plays it. The health based heal is absurd, and having over 40k health not only makes it stronger, but also makes them tanks that deal insane damage. Its boring, and its a carry.

trackdemon5512

Lysette wrote: »

The whole thing with balance in pvp (as in equally able) is just important when you have a sports-like situation with equal numbers of opponents. But then again that is valid for a sport, not so in a war. In a war you try to be anything else than balanced. Like Sun Tzu said "don't start a fight you haven't won already" - the heart and soul of open pvp is imbalance and inequality - outnumber or outsmart an opponent - all that is completely valid in a war - not so in sports. So what is pvp in ESO? I thought it is supposed to be a war.

Currently you have to build for AND group to counter werewolves in PVP. And by build I mean specific armors, abilities, etc just to try and counter these high damage/health groups.

That’s broken, plain and simple.

This is a redux of the same unbalanced problem faced with Dragonknight Wings effectively nullifying all magicka and ranged attacks in PVP. That unbalanced play cut down the fun of PVP as forcing entire groups to build to counter a single type isn’t fair. Not only that it sucks the fun and originality out of a game where variety and build diversity is encouraged.

In any competitive battle game such unbalanced things would be banned in professional play and the game rules updated to reflect this. It’s ridiculous that werewolves have been broken for so long and that the counters (poison and fighters guild abilities that honestly don’t do anything anyways) are essentially stamina builds only and magicka characters are completely given the shaft.

Lysette

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The whole thing with balance in pvp (as in equally able) is just important when you have a sports-like situation with equal numbers of opponents. But then again that is valid for a sport, not so in a war. In a war you try to be anything else than balanced. Like Sun Tzu said "don't start a fight you haven't won already" - the heart and soul of open pvp is imbalance and inequality - outnumber or outsmart an opponent - all that is completely valid in a war - not so in sports. So what is pvp in ESO? I thought it is supposed to be a war.

Currently you have to build for AND group to counter werewolves in PVP. And by build I mean specific armors, abilities, etc just to try and counter these high damage/health groups.

That’s broken, plain and simple.

This is a redux of the same unbalanced problem faced with Dragonknight Wings effectively nullifying all magicka and ranged attacks in PVP. That unbalanced play cut down the fun of PVP as forcing entire groups to build to counter a single type isn’t fair. Not only that it sucks the fun and originality out of a game where variety and build diversity is encouraged.

In any competitive battle game such unbalanced things would be banned in professional play and the game rules updated to reflect this. It’s ridiculous that werewolves have been broken for so long and that the counters (poison and fighters guild abilities that honestly don’t do anything anyways) are essentially stamina builds only and magicka characters are completely given the shaft.

You might be right - I have actually no idea about the specific matter as I'm not doing any pvp in ESO. My statement was more generalized at the design decision fueled by player requests to balance the game. Balance is not helping the game, it makes it boring. A real competition like in nature has high variety in it's balanced form, not every species pretty similar to the other.

Narrowing of diversity happens, when there are imbalances in survival chances. So balance is not about making everyone the same, because it will take away most options and in the end everyone plays the meta. A really balanced game doesn't have a common meta, but high diversity where all options have their advantages and disadvantages without to be the same abilities just with a different name. EVE online is a good example for that - extreme diversity and balancing happens by keeping diversity up high - not by narrowing it down and making all the same - that is why I said, the concept of pvp in ESO is wrong.

Continuing to do "balancing" in the way ZOS does it, will just make a mess out of it in the end - it won't get better this way, because that is not how a real competition is balanced in nature - and nature is a good example of how to do it right.

Edit:

This said - their vulnerability is their predictability - they have just this one way to act, maintaining their WW form - so cater to this - be like a parasite attacking the "top species" on the battle field - you and your group can adapt to it and find tactics to get them out of their form and then slaughter them. This is not a matter of balance really, but about creativity to make good use out of their predictability. In nature it is that way - the nearer a species is to the top, the less options it has and the more predictable it gets and with it more vulnerable.

Daemons_Bane

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

WWs have been broken since they turned them into PVP gods. Theres a reason everyone plays it. The health based heal is absurd, and having over 40k health not only makes it stronger, but also makes them tanks that deal insane damage. Its boring, and its a carry.

Playing on Ravenwatch pc EU myself, and there are not many werewolves at all

Sergykid

don't play CP pvp

Cathexis

Sergykid wrote: »

don't play CP pvp

pleximus

Update: I'm in Blackreach right now and there's about 8-10 DC werewolves that are just plain impossible to counter. This is just... it's sucking the air out of my lungs. It's depressing. No siege works on them. No skills work on them because they are too many. They can run over anyone and anything while sieging and taking every single thing. This isn't playing, it's pure destruction of what pvp in Cyrodiil should be like.

Here's a suggestion: werewolf form can't be used in pvp? See how easy it is to solve that problem?

HalvarIronfist

pleximus wrote: »

Update: I'm in Blackreach right now and there's about 8-10 DC werewolves that are just plain impossible to counter. This is just... it's sucking the air out of my lungs. It's depressing. No siege works on them. No skills work on them because they are too many. They can run over anyone and anything while sieging and taking every single thing. This isn't playing, it's pure destruction of what pvp in Cyrodiil should be like.

Here's a suggestion: werewolf form can't be used in pvp? See how easy it is to solve that problem?

Play a stamdk versus any werewolf. If you're good enough, the werewolf won't last longer than 10 seconds.


Source: Stamdk main. WW is a joke.

Daemons_Bane

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

pleximus wrote: »

Update: I'm in Blackreach right now and there's about 8-10 DC werewolves that are just plain impossible to counter. This is just... it's sucking the air out of my lungs. It's depressing. No siege works on them. No skills work on them because they are too many. They can run over anyone and anything while sieging and taking every single thing. This isn't playing, it's pure destruction of what pvp in Cyrodiil should be like.

Here's a suggestion: werewolf form can't be used in pvp? See how easy it is to solve that problem?

Play a stamdk versus any werewolf. If you're good enough, the werewolf won't last longer than 10 seconds.


Source: Stamdk main. WW is a joke.

Not 100% sure on that bet personally, but I've seen ww where I'd say you'd lose

MrBrownstone

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Try pvp sub forum

Since when "General Discussion" is PvE exclusive? There are PvE subforums as well, do you tell people to go there when they create PvE focused threads?

Girl_Number8

Lol every build has high health now if you’re playing something proper and WWs are not invincible.

It is simply a potato killer at best and the streamers complaining about it are just getteing exposed as bitter potatoes themselves.

If you’re playing any sort of a decent build, the health WW will just hop around trying to heal while it gets slowly rekted. If your still playing like it was a few patches ago of course you’re going to get dropped by anyone who is not.

Sounds like a hate whisper post xD

ESO PvP has not been competitive PvP in a long time because of casuals