Why aren't sea elves a playable race?

SydneyGrey · November 2020

Remember that Maormer are living peacefully with the Khajiit on Khenarthi's Roost before the events of that quest-line happen. It would work to make Maormer a playable race.

Ratzkifal · November 2020

The only faction where Maormer make any logical sense would be EP. The Maormer are pirates and the Redguards, Bretons and Altmer hate them because of that. The Altmer even more so to the point that they have a mutual kill-on-sight policy. That one Romeo and Juliet quest in Summerset wouldn't work if exceptions were tolerable. They might work with the Bosmer and Khajiit, but as long as the Altmer are part of it, it just won't happen. So much for Maormer in the Dominion.

The Covenant is a bit unlikely but could work. Prior to their alliance the Redguards had been capturing Breton trade ships on the regular too, however the Redguards and Bretons have much more common ground than the Maormer have with any other race. For example they joined together to raze Orsinium and again to defeat the Reachman invasion under Durcorach the Black Drake.

As for the pact, the Argonians don't seem to be going out onto the sea all that much so they never get into conflict with the Maormer. The Dunmer do have a lot of ship travel but they don't seem to have any trouble with them since they never even mention them. Part of it is probably the geographical location of Pyandonea which makes Skyrim and Morrowind not very viable targets. Unless Maormer are involved in the Argonians slave trade, which is illegal in the Pact, I see no issue for them to join. Except of course that the Pact wants independant nation states because they are tired of an Empire trying to push them around and the Maormer kind of want to conquer and rule what they conquered which might be an ideological difference that's not easily overcome. But at least until the end of the war is in sight they could have a stable alliance.

SidraWillowsky · November 2020

I think it would be unwise to add something so huge to ESO before it's been added to one of the TES single-player installments. There are quite a few TES fans who don't play ESO for one reason or another, and this would turn the series on its head for them.

I'll say, however, that the only lore I'm super familiar with is the Dunmer's, so I don't know if similarly huge additions are present when it comes to other pieces of TES lore.

cnyanes · November 2020

Because they don't live in Tamriel, I guess.

Pwoo · November 2020

There are actually several friendly Maormer NPCs in Hew's Bane that you can interact with (such as Noryesar). I really hope they become a playable race and one day we'll get to explore Pyandonea, even if the Maormer remain a (mostly) hostile race. ESO lets you do all quests in the game regardless of your race/alliance anyway so it shouldn't matter anymore unless you're extremely passionate about getting immersed in the lore, I guess.
Also, there is so much DLC content in the game now that technically you don't even have to worry about picking an alliance, unless you're a PVP player in Cyrodiil or questing in the vanilla alliance zones.

Ratzkifal · November 2020

Peebuzzle wrote: »

There are actually several friendly Maormer NPCs in Hew's Bane that you can interact with (such as Noryesar). I really hope they become a playable race and one day we'll get to explore Pyandonea, even if the Maormer remain a (mostly) hostile race. ESO lets you do all quests in the game regardless of your race/alliance anyway so it shouldn't matter anymore unless you're extremely passionate about getting immersed in the lore, I guess.
Also, there is so much DLC content in the game now that technically you don't even have to worry about picking an alliance, unless you're a PVP player in Cyrodiil or questing in the vanilla alliance zones.

I hope we get to explore Pyandonea too. The Maormer and their culture are definitely worth exploring. I am just not sure if it's worth the trouble of adding a new playable race. A different race doesn't add a whole lot to the experience of the game. Most dialogues don't recognize it even in places where they should, there are no racial active abilities and the passives rarely make enough of a difference to allow for new playstyles that aren't available otherwise.

I feel like cosmetic options, like Polymorphs, Skins, etc, allow for better roleplaying options without the baggage that comes with adding actual new racial options. We can already make Maormer with oracle eyes, the maormer skin and choosing white hair and skin for an Altmer. Isn't that enough?

Torryn_Woodsrunner · November 2020

A passable Maormer -is- possible:

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Araneae6537 · November 2020

But they don’t look at all like any of the Maormer I’ve seen! The odd patches of scales are entirely dispensable while the skin color is not right but should be gray, usually a pale cool gray from what I recall, which you can get closer to with a Dunmer but not an Altmer. A max height Dunmer with either near-white or black hair and oracle eyes is the closest I’ve seen to achieving a Maormer appearance, albeit a shorter one.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · November 2020

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Could not the same be said of many of the playable races? Perhaps because my introduction (and most beloved) ESO game was Morrowind, I thought Dunmer despised all other races, some even more so than others, as well as Dunmer not of the same affiliation as they and so forth! I still cannot wrap my head around how they are allied with Nords and Argonians in ESO!

Anyway, while most of the Maormer we encounter are hostile, there are exceptions, including one involved with an Altmer! I’m sure there are more Maormer with different views, but they’re not going to be found in the raiding parties, certainly. And no culture is monolithic, as we’ve seen with the others — there are always different interpretations of cultural values, etc.

TL;DR I don’t think it would be lore breaking and certainly much less so than running through town with Daedra in tow!

There's nothing lore breaking or even illegal about having a daedra in tow. It's a common practice for mages to summon daedra. The only place it's illegal is it in Summerset.

Having maormer running around in vast numbers would ruin suspension of disbelief immensely. The majority of maormer are not chummy with other races, an opinion with is returned back at them.

People asking for maormer is almost as bad as people asking for playable the humanoid daedra. Not as lore breaking, but still is.

Torryn_Woodsrunner · November 2020

Araneae6537 wrote: »

But they don’t look at all like any of the Maormer I’ve seen! The odd patches of scales are entirely dispensable while the skin color is not right but should be gray, usually a pale cool gray from what I recall, which you can get closer to with a Dunmer but not an Altmer. A max height Dunmer with either near-white or black hair and oracle eyes is the closest I’ve seen to achieving a Maormer appearance, albeit a shorter one.

Key words being 'that you've seen'. According to lore, Maormer skin is -normally- pale and colorless, like whiteish jello, -but- also has chameleon-like properties. That being the case, their skin can be almost -any- color, suiting their environment, much like the adaptation ability of an octopus. It may also be controllable (though lore says it isn't), like the octopus, meaning they can be any color they choose.

And while yes, they are known for their clear milky-white eyes (though they can be pale blue), it is -impossible- to use the Oracle Eyes -and- use any type of facial hair...a limitation of the game. I made Rin's eyes as pale blue as I could.

Hair color is apparently equally as variable. Castire, a Maormer NPC, has light brown hair.

Having no definitive lore source regarding their scales, I can only posit that the scales are either elaborate tattooing (which they are known for), or a side-effect of their (forced?) evolutionary process, with Maormer who spend their lives more -in- water developing the scales, and those -on- or -near- water not having them. Either possibility is feasible within the lore of the game.

CrashTest · November 2020

prof-dracko wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

I don't know, but I wish we had their motif. I like that look.

We do. Pyandonean was added in the Summerset expansion. Or the original Maormer style, which I think was just a recolored Ancient Elf set.

I'm talking about the Maormer style that's on the Tempest Island drops. It's Ancient Elf but the Maormer style is sleeveless.

cnyanes · November 2020

I simply believe that regardless of the fact that new playable races were indeed added to the franchise at some point in history, whether it would or wouldn't be cool to have new playable races in the game(s), whether it would or wouldn't be be cool to visit the other continents of the world, etc, etc, etc... it is wildly unlikely, I'd even say impossible, that we will ever see ANY of that happening BEFORE they do it in the MAIN games.

newtinmpls · November 2020

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

Because Sea Elves do not like the other races. They, quite literally, despise most if not all races on nirn and prefer to keep to themselves.

And this makes them different from most High Elves how?

But to the question...maomer and goblins are not "officially playable" but I have a character I set up as a maomer, and I play with a group of folks in which three of us play "goblin" characters.

Use a little imagination people. Take a hint from the housing folks - just because it doesn't exist in game, doesn't mean you can't create it.

Here is my maomer:

and this one - despite the look, her backstory is that she is the ... well... okay.

Her father was a dashing Dunmer rogue, and her mother was a Lamia

And last
but not least
drumroll......

Here is Broken Branch Toothmaul:

tactx · November 2020

TwinLamps wrote: »

Why arent sea sloads playable race

Because many people are sea sloads irl and want to escape it in game by being a hot bosmer?

idk · November 2020

SilverIce58 wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

Because, we've had the same playable races for over 20 years now...? xD

Once upon a time Imperials and Orcs weren't playable. It only started in TES 3 that you could choose them.

This. And I do not see what Sea Elves would bring to the game that is different than what we have now.

Kalik_Gold · November 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

TwinLamps wrote: »

Why arent sea sloads playable race

I'm not super familiar with Sload lore but there simply don't seem to be many of them in existence at any given time. They are enormous in comparison to the Tamrielic races such that you would need to re-scale the entire world in order to accommodate their giant models.

That's the same reason why the various Khajiit sub-races won't be included, as they are either too large (Senche-raht, etc.) or too small (Alfiq) to fit in comfortably with the rest of the world (for example, how does an Senche-raht ride a mount?). Other requests that I've seen, such as the Argonian Behemoth, have the same problems as the Sload while also having highly dubious levels of fan interest outside of certain niche communities.

Maormer, on the other hand, are already scaled (pardon the pun, hehe) using the same proportions as the other Tamrielic races and are treated as basically a feature-complete race (even with their own motif) within the confines of ESO.

The only other group that I can think of that approaches that same standard are the Reachfolk now that Markarth has expanded upon their lore a fair bit. But, unlike the Maormer, who split with the main Aldmeri race before either had set foot in Tamriel, it is hard to think of the Reachfolk as anything more than backwoods Bretons, which is more of a cultural distinction than a distinction of a unique Elder Scrolls race.

All that said, if I had to pick a second candidate along with Maormer it would be the Reachfolk. They would blend in easily enough to the rest of the game and I view them as far less gimmicky as, say, adding another beast-race (including a daedra) or even a sub-race of a beast-race.

Well can we get Polymorphs? Because seeing a Draugr banking in Sentinel makes no sense immersion wise.

TitusF2 · November 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

I think because the playable races are Tamrielic. Sea elves are Pyandonean. They are also an invading force in Tamriel (the only reason they're in the game). So, I guess, to preserve that our player character is a hero of and native to Tamriel? There's then also the "stick to what we know" side of it, and of course, playing to what Bethesda has established. As Zaria says, new races in ESO means player expectation to have them in future TES games--which Bethesda may not agree with nor want to do.

On the flip side, just make a pale Altmer sorc, throw on the Maormer skin, oracle eyes, and a few lightning based gear sets like overwhelming.

Agree. That's what I did with my Altmer Sorc. I agree that ZoS would more than likely have to make it a chapter like release to make their introduction more reasonable as to why.

Revised & current look

YandereGirlfriend · November 2020

Peebuzzle wrote: »

There are actually several friendly Maormer NPCs in Hew's Bane that you can interact with (such as Noryesar). I really hope they become a playable race and one day we'll get to explore Pyandonea, even if the Maormer remain a (mostly) hostile race. ESO lets you do all quests in the game regardless of your race/alliance anyway so it shouldn't matter anymore unless you're extremely passionate about getting immersed in the lore, I guess.
Also, there is so much DLC content in the game now that technically you don't even have to worry about picking an alliance, unless you're a PVP player in Cyrodiil or questing in the vanilla alliance zones.

Nice find on the NPC in Hew's Bane! It looks like he was added before the developers codified the Maormer appearance for ESO (e.g. he looks basically like a regular Dunmer) but the idea of stray Maormer hanging about on the fringes of Tamrielic society was definitely introduced. And someone else had mentioned Maormer living peaceably in Khenarthi's Roost.

The idea is advanced even more recently with, as someone in this thread already mentioned, the Maormer who have joined the Dragonguard in Elsweyr:

I would imagine that a hypothetical Maormer race would follow the Imperial precedent of being both a DLC as well as unaligned for the purposes of the Alliance War.

As for the prelude to a Pyandonea Chapter, that could be framed as the idealistic Queen Ayrenn seeking to put an end to the years of pointless Altmer/Maormer bloodshed by way of a peace treaty. She sends for the player, an adventurer of great renown, to accompany an official diplomatic party to Pyandonea to lead negotiations with King Orgnum. That would neatly give you a reason for going there, an obvious plot line to follow for the Chapter, and a handy explanation as to why you are not attacked on-sight by the other Maormer.

And realistically speaking (and looking at a map of the vacant places on the map of Tamriel), ESO is running out of viable real estate in which to locate Chapters. We will have Cyrodiil this year, perhaps Whiterun/the rest of Skyrim next year, Black Marsh the year after that (though Argonian locations and lore aren't exactly wildly popular...), and then we're basically left with the Telvanni Peninsula. Pyandonea, on the other hand, would be glamorous and would all but market itself. After all, how many Elder Scrolls fans have long been curious to see some of the lands outside of Tamriel? Probably most of them.

Athan1 · November 2020

For the same reason that Sea Sloads or Akaviri are not playable. They do not originate from Tamriel, their territory is overseas and very little is actually known about it, and they serve as pure villains in this game. The AD and Summerset storylines feature several Maormer so that's the closest you can get.

Torryn_Woodsrunner · November 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

That's the same reason why the various Khajiit sub-races won't be included, as they are either too large (Senche-raht, etc.) or too small (Alfiq) to fit in comfortably with the rest of the world (for example, how does an Senche-raht ride a mount?).

While I don't want to derail the thread from the Maormer, I -do- want to take a moment to state that this reasoning is a little off. If the Alfiq and the Senche-Raht aren't too small or too big to be NPCs in Rimmen, then they aren't too small or too big to be PCs in Rimmen (or anywhere else for that matter). My wife and I have a Brother/Sister team that we would -love- to make into a Pamar-Raht and Dagi-Raht, or even a Senche-Raht and an Alfiq.

As for how a Senche-Raht rides a mount? Simple. They -don't-. They are their own 'mount', they just put more energy into running. As far as game mechanics? Without knowing the code, I'd say that a Senche-Raht would have an override tag that cancels the model change for mount+rider. They'd get the speed increase, just not the visual changes.

barney2525 · November 2020

next people will want to play Daedra characters

Torryn_Woodsrunner · November 2020

barney2525 wrote: »

next people will want to play Daedra characters

They already do. They just have to use the Daedric polymorphs to accomplish it.

Torryn_Woodsrunner · November 2020

barney2525 wrote: »

next people will want to play Daedra characters

I will also point out that THIS is a Daedra...more accurately a Daedric Prince...specifically Sheogorath, the Daedric Prince of Madness. Who I've been playing since forever...

So, yeah...playing Daedra is already a thing.

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Araneae6537 · November 2020

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Could not the same be said of many of the playable races? Perhaps because my introduction (and most beloved) ESO game was Morrowind, I thought Dunmer despised all other races, some even more so than others, as well as Dunmer not of the same affiliation as they and so forth! I still cannot wrap my head around how they are allied with Nords and Argonians in ESO!

Anyway, while most of the Maormer we encounter are hostile, there are exceptions, including one involved with an Altmer! I’m sure there are more Maormer with different views, but they’re not going to be found in the raiding parties, certainly. And no culture is monolithic, as we’ve seen with the others — there are always different interpretations of cultural values, etc.

TL;DR I don’t think it would be lore breaking and certainly much less so than running through town with Daedra in tow!

There's nothing lore breaking or even illegal about having a daedra in tow. It's a common practice for mages to summon daedra. The only place it's illegal is it in Summerset.

Having maormer running around in vast numbers would ruin suspension of disbelief immensely. The majority of maormer are not chummy with other races, an opinion with is returned back at them.

People asking for maormer is almost as bad as people asking for playable the humanoid daedra. Not as lore breaking, but still is.

Most quests that I can recall doing in any TES game, people only get really upset if daedra or necromancy are involved! Of course there are exceptions, but my impression is that daedra are as taboo as necromancy in most of Tamriel and so it really should be illegal in most towns to run around with daedra in tow.

A playable Maormer race could be fun, but it is not high on my list of priorities. The core races need to be fixed, with all lore appropriate abilities: Bosmer need improved stealth and immunity to poison dropped while Argonians should be immune to both poison and disease (probably other things too, but those are the problems of which I am aware).

But this thread has given me a push to make the “Maormer” sorcerer I’d been considering — using Dunmer for proper skin tone and to be outside the Dominion. Of course, even at max height he’s shorter than would be most fitting; but there are reasons that could happen, and perhaps his father is a Dunmer...

Michae · November 2020

You have to remember that Maormer are not a Tamrielic race. They're generally hostile and are the invaders. I see some comments that say "but the other races are racist too". Sure, they are, but not to that extent and they are still neighbors on the same continent that during the Three Banners War are kinda forced to work together. But even Maormer walking around Tamriel with the current state of affairs would have be treated very differently than any other man or mer, simply due to the exotic nature of his circumstances. They would stick out like a sore thumb and this really should be adressed in dialogue. The Alliances would be left uneven. As others mentioned there's really no way that a large amount of Maormer could be for example a members of AD without a really good reason. It's even worse if they would be implemented the same way as the Imperials, since having Maormer in all Alliances without them being any real political presence on Tamriel wouldn't really make sense. If there were a different time presented in game then maybe. For example, the current state of affairs doesn't really favor Akaviri as playable race, but if the game was set during the Versidue-Shaie's reign it would make a bit more sense since the Akaviri had a political presence on Tamriel at that time. So Maormer aren't really off the table for future TES games but in ESO it would require too much retconning of the actual content of the game.

EDIT: Glaring spelling mistake.