Frost Clench vs Inner Rage

AyaDark · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

Agr from HA was good. No skill, no cost, gives mana.

Now it is some useless skill.

phileunderx2 · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

Range on Clench is way too short.

DT-ARR · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

This is the result of half ass measures. Give ice staff back to damage dealers as an option with a crit bonus to bring it in line with fire and shock.

Make a new weapon line for magicka tanking with real skills designed to fit.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

josiahva · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

DT-ARR wrote: »

This is the result of half ass measures. Give ice staff back to damage dealers as an option with a crit bonus to bring it in line with fire and shock.

Make a new weapon line for magicka tanking with real skills designed to fit.

[snip]

^^This is the real problem...ZOS is trying to make one weapon do 2 things, so its sub-optimal at both. No other weapon tries to cover 2 roles.

DT-ARR · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

Perhaps they think its too late in the games life cycle to introduce something along these lines...but then again they introduced the psijic line.

But that was behind a paywall. Just sayin.

Contaminate · November 2020

If I’m using a ranged taunt it’s going to be Inner Rage

Dracane · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

DT-ARR wrote: »

This is the result of half ass measures. Give ice staff back to damage dealers as an option with a crit bonus to bring it in line with fire and shock.

Make a new weapon line for magicka tanking with real skills designed to fit.

[snip]

This will not fix it.

If you want all 3 staves to be somewhat equally desired by DDs, you must streamline all of them to increase damage done by 8% to remove the advantage of fire and apply it to all 3. And then simply have that passive enable light and heavy attacks to have a chance to apply their associated status effect.

WuffyCerulei · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

Inner Fire hands down. Longer range and it can give a synergy for hungry DPS such as myself. Frost clench may be a decent stand in if you haven’t unlocked Inner Fire in undaunted yet, but that’s it.

Wuerstal · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

So I created a Frost/frost necroTank the other Day (mostly to function as an offtank) and I played around a bit. I morphed inner rage to the stam morph because everything else alredy drains magicka and what can I say...

Even when you factor in that the stam morph of inner rage doesn't give the synergie all the time, frost clench is still worse imho.
Why would I use a taunt that has less range but no real other benefits? The taunt from sword'n'board has de/buffs attached. Great. If I need a range taunt I use inner rage (or morph). Why should i switch to frost clensh when the enemy is standing in front of me? There is no benefit. In the best case scenario for frost clench it is just the same as the stam morph of inner rage. on all other occasions its worse. I don't even bother slotting it now on a tank that uses two bars with froststaff. well done.

Edited to be more specific

ESO_Nightingale · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

josiahva wrote: »

it was STILL far more versatile than the garbage frost clench taunt they gave us because DPS continually whine about an ice staff none of them use.

DPS do use it because they only had 2 magic weapon options for the longest time, now for solo and veteran it is viable. I was also opposing to people's suggestions to turn frost clench into a taunt for the longest time as i knew that this would happen. Before, The ice staff was niche and only useful as a backbar in pvp along with some tanks using it in pve. Now it's more useful in more situations where people are actually encouraged to run it.

CaptainVenom · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

Frost Clench is inferior compared to Inner Fire, as people mentioned. 15m range, holds enemies, but not bosses. Inner Fire got 28m range, applies a synergy... from the start we knew Frost Clench wouldn't be a good choice for a taunt.

Weakness to Elements, however...

AcadianPaladin · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

The PTS forum tried to warn that Frost Clench for taunt was a bad idea during the entire PTS cycle due to its predictable complete inferiority to Inner Rage. Oh well. What's next, nerf Inner Rage because it is 'overperforming' vs Frost Clench?

VaxtinTheWolf · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

The only use for this Frost Clench adjustment is in PvP while using that set where if you taunt a player, they do less damage to your allies and more damage to you.

DT-ARR · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

Dracane wrote: »

DT-ARR wrote: »

This is the result of half ass measures. Give ice staff back to damage dealers as an option with a crit bonus to bring it in line with fire and shock.

Make a new weapon line for magicka tanking with real skills designed to fit.

Aka stop being so damn lazy ZOS.

This will not fix it.

If you want all 3 staves to be somewhat equally desired by DDs, you must streamline all of them to increase damage done by 8% to remove the advantage of fire and apply it to all 3. And then simply have that passive enable light and heavy attacks to have a chance to apply their associated status effect.

Youre mis-identifying the point of my post. The comment on giving ice staff crit damage as a base bonus vs fires 8% direct damage and lightning aoe % was a generalized off the top idea. To make them equally desirable is a separate conversation.

The primary point that i was addressing is that a proper magicka tank weapon line should be created. Pigeon holing ice staff in there when the corresponding staff skills are clearly meant for DD is the problem, and creating a true alternative would absolutely fix it.

As a subsequent poster correctly pointed out, no other weapon line in the game tries to do both at once. Thats where we are currently with ice staff. And thats why its failed.

Starlight_Whisper · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

🤣 frost clench idea was just horrible. Back to the drawing board.

FrancisCrawford · November 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

I use mostly inner beast to taunt big mob while I'm walking down the pack before CC the rest.
Clench is low range and CC mob to early, doesn't make sens.

Now I use dual frost stave on my warden heal for the 100% uptime on brittle, that all.

Do your run SPC or Olorime? I run SPC, and I'm never sure I'll hit everybody without Radiating Regeneration.

rpa · November 2020

I don't tank.

Intending to do tanking at some point. I guess Inner Rage it is.

x48rph · November 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

So, time to do it. Time to make inner rage go head to head with frost clench for the best ranged taunt for tanks! Ready? FIGHT!

Good idea for a thread.

Right now I lean more toward Inner Rage as a tank in PvE. It has greater range and the snare effect is relatively useless to me since the enemy is already taunted at that point anyway, so it is no longer a threat to the group.

That being said: I love Clench in PvP as a tank because it allows defensive builds to support their group with a cheap and effective CC. This also tends to incur the wrath of other players which is what a tank wants.

So I would say it depends on the activity.

I do miss the heavy attack taunt though, I'm not going to lie. It was nice to be able to get resources back and taunt at the same time, especially on bosses.

Same. I liked getting resources back for taunting and it didn't take up a bar spot either

ajkb78 · November 2020

I'm glad the heavy attack taunt has gone. Not for any tanking reason, but it does at least prevent dds stealing taunt.
Obviously inner fire still wins as a ranged taunt, but I think the point of putting a taunt on frost clench was to give new tanks something they could range taunt with before they unlock inner fire. It's a starter skill.
I quite like ice staffs for tanking: I'll happily start using mine again now that frost blockade will provide a new unique debuff. I can't really see why tanks would want to keep using lightning staves now, except that they already have them golded so there's a bit of inertia there. The healer(s) can run lightning staves for off balance.
Re the throwaway comment someone made about wanting to see a +8% bonus to crit damage done with a frost staff, that would be nice, it wouldn't really affect tanking anyway but by adding it to the passive ice staves might be a bit more interesting for dps. Alternatively, it might be nice to change that passive so that each type of destro staff gets an 8% bonus to its own elemental damage type and a 5% bonus to magic damage. That would have the effect of diversifying staves among classes: DKs do entirely flame damage so would want inferno staves, sorcs do a mix of shock and magic damage so would want shock staves, wardens do a mix of ice and magic damage and would want ice staves, etc.

omnidoh · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

Not sure what an encpunter is, but yeah. Spitting is fun.

zvavi · November 2020

ajkb78 wrote: »

but I think the point of putting a taunt on frost clench was to give new tanks something they could range taunt with before they unlock inner fire. It's a starter skill.

It is a morph of a third skill in a weapon skill line. It might actually be faster to unlock inner fire.

karekiz · November 2020

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.

Guess what's going to sneak into Monday's Patch Notes:

Inner Fire range reduced to 15 meters to match ranged taunt standardizations.

zvavi · November 2020

Non of the 8 that didn't vote 100% inner rage have brought their insights about when is frost clench is more useful than inner rage. (I don't even know why I counted 8, when one of them clearly stated they don't even know what frost clench is)

linuxlady wrote: »

what the heck is frost clench?

Other than that currently we have 75 votes for always inner rage, and 10 votes for non tanks. I really hope that this insights zos that their new taunt is not very useful.