Frost Clench vs Inner Rage

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zvavi
zvavi
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So, time to do it. Time to make inner rage go head to head with frost clench for the best ranged taunt for tanks! Ready? FIGHT!

note: group PvE thread
Edited by zvavi on November 12, 2020 9:55PM

Frost Clench vs Inner Rage 101 votes

I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
79%
SuddwrathAwesomestMattWuffyCeruleixaraanlolo_01b16_ESOBeolundDracaneBeardedOrphanVaxtinTheWolfNaftalTannus15CaffeinatedMayhemSaubonpaulsimonpsDerraAzaharysVevvevBrovahVaohCaptainVenom 80 votes
I would prefer slotting inner rage in over 80% of encounters.
3%
EvilAutoTechCurious_Deathamertuimpihlaja 4 votes
I would prefer slotting inner rage in around 60-80% of encounters.
0%
ldzlcs065 1 vote
I would slot them more or less equally.
1%
Radiancenoblecron 2 votes
I would prefer slotting frost clench in around 60% to 80% of encounters.
0%
I would prefer slotting frost clench in over 80% of encounters.
0%
Vonnegut2506 1 vote
I would prefer slotting frost clench in all encounters.
1%
MachineGodlinuxlady 2 votes
I don't tank.
10%
Aektannpod88kkStrut6569Seminolegirl1992tt_rs3Sylvermynxspartaxoxorpatarar4ikFlaaklypaTremuto 11 votes
  • josiahva
    josiahva
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    To be clear, I do not slot inner fire(or whatever morph I am using) in all encounters regardless, its a very situational taunt and most times chains does the job just as well at zero cost(at least gets even un-pullable enemies close enough for you to use pierce armor). That being said, The changes to frost staff have made the frost staff far WORSE than when it was heavy attack based.

    When it was on heavy attack it had the following advantages over the garbage they gave us this patch:

    1. Greater range
    2. No CC(why would you want to CC an ad far away from you?).
    3. No cost
    4. Restored magicka on use

    The ONLY disadvantage the heavy attack had was that it was slow and clunky...making it very situational, but even so, even situational as it was, it was STILL far more versatile than the garbage frost clench taunt they gave us because DPS continually whine about an ice staff none of them use.
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
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    zvavi wrote: »
    So, time to do it. Time to make inner rage go head to head with frost clench for the best ranged taunt for tanks! Ready? FIGHT!

    Good idea for a thread.

    Right now I lean more toward Inner Rage as a tank in PvE. It has greater range and the snare effect is relatively useless to me since the enemy is already taunted at that point anyway, so it is no longer a threat to the group.

    That being said: I love Clench in PvP as a tank because it allows defensive builds to support their group with a cheap and effective CC. This also tends to incur the wrath of other players which is what a tank wants.

    So I would say it depends on the activity.

    I do miss the heavy attack taunt though, I'm not going to lie. It was nice to be able to get resources back and taunt at the same time, especially on bosses.
    Edited by Jeremy on November 12, 2020 9:28PM
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    Frost Clench is pointless and a poor idea. 15 meters range? A root that can prevent them from coming to you, hence making aoes worse?

    And no radiate synergy for allies for sustain, ult regen and deal some damage. There is not a single benefit in using clench.

    I was a big fan of frost staff heavy attack taunts. Frost staff is not a desirable dps weapon. They should have just left the taunt as it is. That was actually useful. Someone open my eyes should I oversee what benefits clench has.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    I use mostly inner beast to taunt big mob while I'm walking down the pack before CC the rest.
    Clench is low range and CC mob to early, doesn't make sens.

    Now I use dual frost stave on my warden heal for the 100% uptime on brittle, that all.
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Someone open my eyes should I oversee what benefits clench has.

    compare of the two:
    inner rage:
    28m range
    damage of 50~% psijic spammable (after orbs proc is counted)
    cost of a magicka spammable~
    no extra elemetnal passives
    special thing - adds a synergy that hits as hard as force pulse single target, and then again in an aoe (strong).
    bonus positive: can be converted into a stamina ability for a better magicka stamina balance on mag heavy tanks.

    frost clench:
    15m range
    damage of 27~% psijic spammable (after orbs proc is counted)
    cost of a magicka spammable~ (exactly the same as inner rage)
    has 20% to proc minor brittle (42% with gold charged staff)
    special thing - immobilizes the enemy (usually not a benefit, but a drawback, since you want enemies to come to the aoe's to burn in them)


    so ye. the only "benefit" is low chance to proc brittle.
    Edited by zvavi on November 12, 2020 10:17PM
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    zvavi wrote: »

    compare of the two:
    inner rage:
    28m range
    damage of 50~% psijic spammable (after orbs proc is counted)
    cost of a magicka spammable~
    no extra elemetnal passives
    special thing - adds a synergy that hits as hard as force pulse single target, and then again in an aoe (strong).
    bonus positive: can be converted int o a stamina ability for a better magicka stamina balance on mag heavy tanks.

    frost clench:
    15m range
    damage of 27~% psijic spammable (after orbs proc is counted)
    cost of a magicka spammable~ (exactly the same as inner rage)
    has 20% to proc minor brittle (32% with gold charged staff)
    special thing - immobilizes the enemy (usually not a benefit, but a drawback, since you want enemies to come to the aoe's to burn in them)


    so ye. the only "benefit" is low chance to proc brittle.

    Since damage is no concern for most tanks, because our offensive stats are too low to make an impact with abilities like this. Thus I never considered their damage as any benefit.

    For strictly minor brittle, I would not use clench but reach, because the dot has more chances to proc it. A disgraceful shame that light and heavy destruction attacks can still not proc elemental effects. This is what the line is all about.

    I feel the new brittle is futile to be used by anyone but warden tanks/supports.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Xebov
    Xebov
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    Clearly Inner Rage. If i want a range taunt i want something with actual range. While 15m is not short it can stil be to short depending on the situation.
  • idk
    idk
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    I doubt the frost staff will ever be a serious tanking weapon. By choosing to retrofit an existing weapon line for tanking while also keeping it for DPS Zos is limited in what they can do. While there may be some niche situations where a serious tank would use a frost staff I expect we will still see S&B with a shock staff back bar.

    .For those who want to do pure magicka tanking, they can ahve fun with it. Magicka tanking is likely to remain a novelty unless Zos decides to build a weapon specific for that style from the ground up.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    Both taunts cost the same.

    Clench immobilizes and taunts.

    Inner Fire taunts and gives allies a synergy that deals lots of damage.

    Bosses are immune to immobilize, but are not immune to synergies. Also with the Undaunted passive all synergies improve sustain.

    I think the choice is rather obvious which one to pick.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • caperb
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    idk wrote: »
    I doubt the frost staff will ever be a serious tanking weapon. By choosing to retrofit an existing weapon line for tanking while also keeping it for DPS Zos is limited in what they can do. While there may be some niche situations where a serious tank would use a frost staff I expect we will still see S&B with a shock staff back bar.

    But it has been a serious tanking weapon for quite some time now? For those encounters where you can need the extra block mitigation, you are pugging and one of your stubborn DD's brings a lightning backbar, or the heal has no inferno?

    Or did they also change the block mitigation passive of the ice staff?

    The taunt though, useless.
  • Thechuckage
    Thechuckage
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    Frost staff used to have a place in PvE tanks arsenal. Now its mediocre for everyone. Inner is better by all metrics.
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    I agree with @josiahva . Frost clench is simply a joke and never worth slotting when compared to inner rage. That said, the key word for me is 'slotting' - or rather not slotting. I much preferred the frost staff heavy attack taunt because it freed up a much needed slot. The extra 'casting' time for the heavy attack was well worth keeping a spell slot open.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • CaffeinatedMayhem
    CaffeinatedMayhem
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    I will start re-grinding Alkosh for a frost staff when Brittle is confirmed to work properly and I am requested to do so by my raid lead.

    Until then, I'm using my 8 different lightning staves.
  • Faded
    Faded
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    Place your bets now for which quarter of 2021 Inner Fire will be nerfed.
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    it's the range.
    if i want a range taunt i need to be able to taunt things at long range. that's 28m, not 15m.

    The synergy is nice, but i don't care. The only thing that really matters is the range.

    if they want us to use clench then it needs 28m range, and if it also applied major breach i'd never run inner fire again.
  • Brovah
    Brovah
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    ZOS has no idea how ESO works..

  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    Dracane wrote: »

    Since damage is no concern for most tanks, because our offensive stats are too low to make an impact with abilities like this. Thus I never considered their damage as any benefit.

    For strictly minor brittle, I would not use clench but reach, because the dot has more chances to proc it. A disgraceful shame that light and heavy destruction attacks can still not proc elemental effects. This is what the line is all about.

    I feel the new brittle is futile to be used by anyone but warden tanks/supports.

    Agree only warden can keep a 100% aoe uptime. Did that with my warden heal. That said, the hard mechanic to proc it is justified, the debuff is insanely strong, that basically the hold major force with 100% uptime.
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • linuxlady
    linuxlady
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    I would prefer slotting frost clench in all encounters.
    what the heck is frost clench?
  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    linuxlady wrote: »
    what the heck is frost clench?

    A skill in destruction staff skill line. It taunts when u have a frosty staff.
    Edited by zvavi on November 13, 2020 12:50AM
  • idk
    idk
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    caperb wrote: »

    But it has been a serious tanking weapon for quite some time now? For those encounters where you can need the extra block mitigation, you are pugging and one of your stubborn DD's brings a lightning backbar, or the heal has no inferno?

    Or did they also change the block mitigation passive of the ice staff?

    The taunt though, useless.

    I am not seeing top tanks using that frost staff. I have yet to see a group form up for a challenging vet trial, not even talking about HM, and put up with a player using an rStaff. They should be kicked in a heart beat. Pugin unskilled players does not make the tanking serious.
  • vgabor
    vgabor
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    Inner rage wins hands down. Frost clench is more than useless as taunt, it has smaller rage and CC the target there away from me...
  • caperb
    caperb
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    idk wrote: »

    I am not seeing top tanks using that frost staff. I have yet to see a group form up for a challenging vet trial, not even talking about HM, and put up with a player using an rStaff. They should be kicked in a heart beat. Pugin unskilled players does not make the tanking serious.

    No obviously I was not talking about an optimized group, then you want a lightning staff.

    But pugging vet DLC when your usual group is not available, it is still tanking and you will often see lightning staves on DPS in that case.
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    28 meters win everything .
  • CrashTest
    CrashTest
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    Inner Rage all the way because this:
    Dracane wrote: »
    Frost Clench is pointless and a poor idea. 15 meters range? A root that can prevent them from coming to you, hence making aoes worse?

    And no radiate synergy for allies for sustain, ult regen and deal some damage. There is not a single benefit in using clench.

    I was a big fan of frost staff heavy attack taunts. Frost staff is not a desirable dps weapon. They should have just left the taunt as it is. That was actually useful. Someone open my eyes should I oversee what benefits clench has.

  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    @amertuim I would love to hear your reasoning for not all encounters~
  • Iccotak
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    I don't care about Frost Clench but I like the Damage Shield that the Frost Staff got to replace the taunt
  • Zodiarkslayer
    Zodiarkslayer
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    Always inner rage because sometimes you have to use ligtning staff.
    Therefore investment in frost clench is a waste of time and skill points, when inner rage does all the jobs.
    If anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...

    Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.
  • Grandchamp1989
    Grandchamp1989
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    The ranged CC on the taunt is a bit of letdown, I'm not gonna lie.
    The 15 meter range is an odd choice.
    The chance of applying minor brittle is okey...

    Inner Rage does objectively seem like the superior choice for a PVE tank.
    PvP I don't know, maybe it will have some use..

    Hope Clench gets a rework.
  • josiahva
    josiahva
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    I would prefer slotting inner rage in all encpunters.
    idk wrote: »

    I am not seeing top tanks using that frost staff. I have yet to see a group form up for a challenging vet trial, not even talking about HM, and put up with a player using an rStaff. They should be kicked in a heart beat. Pugin unskilled players does not make the tanking serious.

    I often tank vHRC with resto backbar(mostly because I forget to change it)....but you are correct, that's not a real trial anyway. That being said, to me, as a tank an Ice Staff will ALWAYS be a viable option as long as it allows me to magicka block. I have a 20-24k magicka pool and a 30k stamina pool(depending on gear setup) so I can easily afford to block with magicka when needed. Regardless though, just because a relative few endgame tanks refuse to use anything other than lightning staff doesn't mean that an Ice Staff isnt useful to tanks. If 98% of the tanks in the game get use out of it, its a success, even with this new garbage taunt they gave us...I do use it less than before this change, but I do still use it.

    People go on about lightning staff as the best backbar tanking weapon...but that is really only for 2 reasons:

    1. Weapon AoE skill to proc crusher enchant(this can be done just as easily with a bow or an ice staff)
    2. Off Balance.....but in reality, most of the time you have at least one DPS in your group with a lightning staff dropping wall of elements anyway....so...yeah

    Benefits to non-lightning staff backbar weapons for a tank:

    Ice Staff
    1. Slows and CCs for mobs....this is neither here nor there since it doesn't directly play into the buff-monkey theme
    2. Magicka blocking....yes, its a thing.
    3. Group damage shields...this is more useful for the group...dead DPS deal no damage so extra mitigation never hurts

    Resto Staff
    1. Greater resource return on heavy attack...for tanks that burn through a smaller magicka pool, a single heavy attack on a resto and its full again
    2. Combat prayer...we all know how badly people stack sometimes and the healer can't always catch everyone in their combat prayer....the tank is position across the boss from melee DPS and ideally positioned to catch them in combat prayer...even as a tank the heal isnt bad either...5-6k.
    3. Healing Ward...the heal on this is weak(as a tank), but its VERY useful in helping keep people alive during damage phases....I cant remember how often during a damage phase I will just swap to resto and spam combat prayer...also good to help a DPS who is rezzing a teamate with incoming damage.

    Bow
    1. Endless hail will proc crusher?
    2. Well, cant think of many other benefits to bow except maybe the ranged interrupt.

    Fire Staff

    1. Essentially the same as bow.

    2-hander

    1. I don't think this does anything for the group at all...but both it and the bow can be ok for mild damage setups.

    In the end, its only the lightning,ice, and resto staves I would consider using in a trial and the choice of which to use would be very situational...but what I would take into a "serious group" is completely irrelevant anyway...those types of groups don't allow choice in what you slot and what you equip to start with. The root reason that I enjoy 4-man content much more than 12-man content....that type of mindset and attitude filters down to casual trials, but not to dungeons and arenas.
  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    @josiahva bow has the utility of applying crusher more accurately and from greater range than destruction staff, commonly used in vSS if you are range tanking lokke
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