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Where did all the raiders go?
-
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭- Blame it on increased toxicity. Not sure where that trend comes from, but it's there. I used to like to hangout in TS/Discord and chat with people while playing the game, but I cannot do that anymore. No matter which group/guild/server I join, the conversation is ALWAYS about bashing, mocking or otherwise complaining about other players. Or ZOS.
- Blame it on skill gap. "Raise the floor / Lower the ceiling" is a big failure and holds a lot of players away from group content. Just a fact, I'm not discussing people willing or not willing to teach or to learn here.
- And last but not least, BLAME IT ON DISCORD. Back in the days, you could see groups and guilds arranging runs on zone chat and guild chat. You could figure out what was going on, whether you were tempted to give it a try, you could ask and discuss, all this ingame. Now that all tools are available in Discord (which is, per se, a good thing, but has negative side effects), things don't happen ingame anymore so people are not even aware they exist. The communication channels for end game raiding and progression groups have been drained from ESO and into Discord. It creates a sort of Catch 22 situation where information is only available in certain circles which you can only join if you have access to said information.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on November 10, 2020 10:54AM1 -
Thor199389✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »- Blame it on increased toxicity. Not sure where that trend comes from, but it's there. I used to like to hangout in TS/Discord and chat with people while playing the game, but I cannot do that anymore. No matter which group/guild/server I join, the conversation is ALWAYS about bashing, mocking or otherwise complaining about other players. Or ZOS.
You got a really good point there... But I think that is more than just a ESO thing...1 -
Spark✭✭✭Why do people keep repeating that there are only 6 trials? Which ones are not trials, HRC, AA, SO, MoL, CR, AS, HoF, SS or KA?
And just FYI, I'm not actually asking. Just tired of these same hyperbolic complaints for the past 5 years. Every year seems to be the one when ESO died, somehow. Maybe it has nine lives.3 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Thor199389 wrote: »Some posts in here are just so funny to read...
The statements are just so wrong, I dont know where to start.
1) "There are no 'elitist players' willing to teach"
Wrong. There are so many groups out there that are searching for everything, Tanks, DDs, Healer, and are willing to explain. Either you are too lazy to search for them or you do not want to follow their calls.
2) "Low skilled elitist players want to skip mechanics but you can play everything with low dps when you do mechanics"
Not everyone that sees himself or herself as "elitist player" is actually a good player.
Playing mechanics requires skill too. Some mechanics are also damage related. For example the mentioned Scalecaller peak as dungeon without damage check - it does have a damage check: final boss winter storm - you have to kill the giants in time.
If you need to play mechanics because of low dps it is likely that you do not make it because mechanics are often even harder than just doing damage. Also, what many people do not see: if you have low damage and have to play additional stuff, you are outsourcing stuff to tanks and healers. More adds because of low damage? Tank has a way harder job. Maw of Lorkhajs first boss - low damage? good luck to the healers making it through the shieldphase.
3) "Trial queue and a 1 week ban for leaving"
...
So you force people to stay in a group that failes something for the 100th time, despite you explaining it 99 times and trying your best?
4) "Dummy parses do not apply to trials therefore not usefull"
Yes, you are right, there is a diffrence in numbers, dps etc.
But if you are not able to deal damage on a static target, do you really believe, you are able to deal damage on a moving target where you have to think about when to cast what skill?
5) "Its all about Sets and meta"
well yeah, to squeeze out the full damage possible, sets do make the difference. But the biggest difference comes from the actuall rotation.
6) "Entrance limited for CP xxx"
CP do help, thats it. High CP does not mean that someone is experienced in any trial or group content. Low CP does mean someone is not capable of compeeting in a group.
7) Back to the original question of the post "where did all the raiders go?"
They are still there. Just go to esologs or look through the leaderboards. there are plenty of groups doing trials.
Sure, some players quit the game, but also some new player joined and there are always people willing to improve.
Yes, it is not easy to actuall progress for clears because all groupmembers are unexperienced. But it works.
After reading all this, you have diffrent options:
- Call me toxic and deny everything
- Think about it and argue about some points. Hell, I know Im not right with everything too.
On 3 kk dummy:
In this game normal damage us possible to make with 2 skills and light attacks.
5 k dps relequin, 5 k dps light attacks, 15 k dps snipe, 4 kdps maelstorm arrow rain, 5 k more poisons and qliphs, 3-4 k proc set + 2 k monster helm.
+-40 k already with ultimate for sure.
1 skill press, 12 seconds 1 skill spum.
It is not hard and it is enough if people looks in other directions not only to dps.
I even made video a year ago where i do 30 k dps by only hiting 1 button with a paper, not even a hand.
And it is enough in some conditions.
If player do 50+, but do not understand simple commands, stuck mechaniks, do not hear, it is much worse.
And about statick targets - i do beliewe that in real conditions i do more dps than on stutick dummy, because my buildswork thisway,they are not useless meta dummy only made for.0 -
Thor199389✭✭✭Thor199389 wrote: »Some posts in here are just so funny to read...
The statements are just so wrong, I dont know where to start.
1) "There are no 'elitist players' willing to teach"
Wrong. There are so many groups out there that are searching for everything, Tanks, DDs, Healer, and are willing to explain. Either you are too lazy to search for them or you do not want to follow their calls.
2) "Low skilled elitist players want to skip mechanics but you can play everything with low dps when you do mechanics"
Not everyone that sees himself or herself as "elitist player" is actually a good player.
Playing mechanics requires skill too. Some mechanics are also damage related. For example the mentioned Scalecaller peak as dungeon without damage check - it does have a damage check: final boss winter storm - you have to kill the giants in time.
If you need to play mechanics because of low dps it is likely that you do not make it because mechanics are often even harder than just doing damage. Also, what many people do not see: if you have low damage and have to play additional stuff, you are outsourcing stuff to tanks and healers. More adds because of low damage? Tank has a way harder job. Maw of Lorkhajs first boss - low damage? good luck to the healers making it through the shieldphase.
3) "Trial queue and a 1 week ban for leaving"
...
So you force people to stay in a group that failes something for the 100th time, despite you explaining it 99 times and trying your best?
4) "Dummy parses do not apply to trials therefore not usefull"
Yes, you are right, there is a diffrence in numbers, dps etc.
But if you are not able to deal damage on a static target, do you really believe, you are able to deal damage on a moving target where you have to think about when to cast what skill?
5) "Its all about Sets and meta"
well yeah, to squeeze out the full damage possible, sets do make the difference. But the biggest difference comes from the actuall rotation.
6) "Entrance limited for CP xxx"
CP do help, thats it. High CP does not mean that someone is experienced in any trial or group content. Low CP does mean someone is not capable of compeeting in a group.
7) Back to the original question of the post "where did all the raiders go?"
They are still there. Just go to esologs or look through the leaderboards. there are plenty of groups doing trials.
Sure, some players quit the game, but also some new player joined and there are always people willing to improve.
Yes, it is not easy to actuall progress for clears because all groupmembers are unexperienced. But it works.
After reading all this, you have diffrent options:
- Call me toxic and deny everything
- Think about it and argue about some points. Hell, I know Im not right with everything too.
On 3 kk dummy:
In this game normal damage us possible to make with 2 skills and light attacks.
5 k dps relequin, 5 k dps light attacks, 15 k dps snipe, 4 kdps maelstorm arrow rain, 5 k more poisons and qliphs, 3-4 k proc set + 2 k monster helm.
+-40 k already with ultimate for sure.
1 skill press, 12 seconds 1 skill spum.
It is not hard and it is enough if people looks in other directions not only to dps.
I even made video a year ago where i do 30 k dps by only hiting 1 button with a paper, not even a hand.
And it is enough in some conditions.
If player do 50+, but do not understand simple commands, stuck mechaniks, do not hear, it is much worse.
And about statick targets - i do beliewe that in real conditions i do more dps than on stutick dummy, because my buildswork thisway,they are not useless meta dummy only made for.
Just to let you know: you can basicly get 90k+ with a stamplar this patch only using jabs. skinny cheeks made a video for that. But I do not see where that is related to my post.
Static target: It is impossible to do more damage on a moving target than on a static one because that would require some conditions on skills/sets for a damage increase which does as far as I know not exists. You either do the same or less. Every damage increase you do in trials is from supportsets that you do not have on a trial dummy.
Player doing 50k+ and not following calls - yes, that is an issue but that is why I said low damage and the need to play mechanics will likely go downhill. Low damage is often paired with unconsciousness about game mechanics.
2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thor199389 wrote: »3) "Trial queue and a 1 week ban for leaving"
...
So you force people to stay in a group that failes something for the 100th time, despite you explaining it 99 times and trying your best?
Also because legitimate crashes and DCs never occur in a raid environment.
Legitimately, lockouts for failing an instance (and, yeah, that's exactly what this would be), actually encourage elitism and toxicity. More specifically, collective punishments (and, again, that's exactly what a lockout for leaving the instance would become), cause those being punished to harshly punish one another for perceived infractions to protect themselves.
While it's less of an issue for ESO, I remember another MMO that had a 7d lockout on its raid content, where a couple of the endgame guilds picked up a reputation for kicking fills before triggering the final loot interaction, simply to prevent non-guild members from obtaining the upgrade mats that were in the pool. (There was a fixed drop rate of one or two materials per run, randomly assigned to one (or two) players.)1 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do people keep repeating that there are only 6 trials? Which ones are not trials, HRC, AA, SO, MoL, CR, AS, HoF, SS or KA?
And just FYI, I'm not actually asking. Just tired of these same hyperbolic complaints for the past 5 years. Every year seems to be the one when ESO died, somehow. Maybe it has nine lives.
I was wondering the same. I just assumed it was players who hadn't played since there were 6, but someone replied and they don't count Crag trials, so I don't know.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do people keep repeating that there are only 6 trials? Which ones are not trials, HRC, AA, SO, MoL, CR, AS, HoF, SS or KA?
And just FYI, I'm not actually asking. Just tired of these same hyperbolic complaints for the past 5 years. Every year seems to be the one when ESO died, somehow. Maybe it has nine lives.
I was wondering the same. I just assumed it was players who hadn't played since there were 6, but someone replied and they don't count Crag trials, so I don't know.
The somewhat pedantic answer is, 'it depends." Some people exclude the Craglorn trials because they're not, "hard enough," to count as trials. Others exclude Asylum, Cloudrest, and Sunspire because they're not long enough. I think I saw someone exclude Kyne's Aegis for the same reason, but I'm not 100% sure, because they were just like "a bunch don't count."
Basically, some trials don't live up to people's expectations of what a trial should be, so they say there are fewer than there really are. There's some validity to their position, but they fumble the execution, so it looks like they simply don't know those trials exist, rather than, "no, I'm not counting those because 'reasons.'"0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Basically, some trials don't live up to people's expectations of what a trial should be, so they say there are fewer than there really are. There's some validity to their position, but they fumble the execution, so it looks like they simply don't know those trials exist, rather than, "no, I'm not counting those because 'reasons.'"
That doesn't make sense, @starkerealm.
A trial not living up to a player's expectation is a totally valid personal reason, opinion, etc.
But that's not something based in fact ... since trials are clearly marked in the game with their own icons.
They're not counting those because "reasons".0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Taleof2Cities, whether it's a rational reason or not; that is the, "logic," behind the people who say things like, "there's only 6 trials," or, "they haven't released a real trial since HoF."
To be clear, yeah, there are nine trials. No question about it. So, when you see people saying there are less than nine, they are being intellectually dishonest.1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are a lot of problems that others have addressed so I'll just focus on one: rewards!
The truth is, most players are motivated by tangible rewards - things that will signify their status to others or else materially improve their performance (e.g. tools that will help them get more rewards that signify their status to others...). Most players do not care about leaderboards or simply hunting esoteric achievements. But they do care about peacocking.
Since they only come out once per year, every trial should have:- Titles
- A motif
- A skin
- A personality
- A mount(s)
- A pet(s)
- High-quality sets that are BiS at some aspect of progression raiding (see Kyne's Aegis for how NOT do to this)
And extra bonus points for thinking outside-of-the-box and adding something truly spicy like a house and/or houseguest or even more mundane things like hairstyles, more furniture items or a unique Style Page germane to the trial (think of the latter like the Monster Set Style Pages but for weapons and perhaps the chest/legs pieces in styles that evoke those of the prominent trial bosses). Having an Arena-style unique weapon (and only a small, trial-appropriate pool, rather than one of every weapon type) for a guaranteed HM reward would also be an interesting idea (e.g. like "The Celestial Warrior's Greatsword" for beating Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode).
Distribute those rewards across all of the various hierarchical achievements and more as well as more diverse types of players will be lining up to join trials precisely because the rewards now appeal to a wider variety of players.7 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are a lot of problems that others have addressed so I'll just focus on one: rewards!
The truth is, most players are motivated by tangible rewards - things that will signify their status to others or else materially improve their performance (e.g. tools that will help them get more rewards that signify their status to others...). Most players do not care about leaderboards or simply hunting esoteric achievements. But they do care about peacocking.
Since they only come out once per year, every trial should have:- Titles
- A motif
- A skin
- A personality
- A mount(s)
- A pet(s)
- High-quality sets that are BiS at some aspect of progression raiding (see Kyne's Aegis for how NOT do to this)
And extra bonus points for thinking outside-of-the-box and adding something truly spicy like a house and/or houseguest or even more mundane things like hairstyles, more furniture items or a unique Style Page germane to the trial (think of the latter like the Monster Set Style Pages but for weapons and perhaps the chest/legs pieces in styles that evoke those of the prominent trial bosses). Having an Arena-style unique weapon (and only a small, trial-appropriate pool, rather than one of every weapon type) for a guaranteed HM reward would also be an interesting idea (e.g. like "The Celestial Warrior's Greatsword" for beating Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode).
Distribute those rewards across all of the various hierarchical achievements and more as well as more diverse types of players will be lining up to join trials precisely because the rewards now appeal to a wider variety of players.
I´ll add something to that that I wanted ever since the outfit system released: Make the weapon glow of AY, MoL sets, IA etc. lootable in vet/vethm version of the trial (or maybe even with a new trifecta achievement?).Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.3 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS changes too much instead of adding to the game...
Players dislike having to (re-)learn changed rules/sets/bugs every 3 months...
Mastering the most difficult content in this "eternal beta" often is more work than entertainment.
Edited by BalticBlues on November 11, 2020 9:41AM4 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Czekoludek wrote: »There is a limit how much devs can spit at your face before you say stop, most raiders have enough of bad performance and stupid combat changes
This has killed last 7 guilds i was in either we all got our gear or we gave up trying to fight zos mode and hardmode3 -
Thor199389✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are a lot of problems that others have addressed so I'll just focus on one: rewards!
The truth is, most players are motivated by tangible rewards - things that will signify their status to others or else materially improve their performance (e.g. tools that will help them get more rewards that signify their status to others...). Most players do not care about leaderboards or simply hunting esoteric achievements. But they do care about peacocking.
Since they only come out once per year, every trial should have:- Titles
- A motif
- A skin
- A personality
- A mount(s)
- A pet(s)
- High-quality sets that are BiS at some aspect of progression raiding (see Kyne's Aegis for how NOT do to this)
And extra bonus points for thinking outside-of-the-box and adding something truly spicy like a house and/or houseguest or even more mundane things like hairstyles, more furniture items or a unique Style Page germane to the trial (think of the latter like the Monster Set Style Pages but for weapons and perhaps the chest/legs pieces in styles that evoke those of the prominent trial bosses). Having an Arena-style unique weapon (and only a small, trial-appropriate pool, rather than one of every weapon type) for a guaranteed HM reward would also be an interesting idea (e.g. like "The Celestial Warrior's Greatsword" for beating Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode).
Distribute those rewards across all of the various hierarchical achievements and more as well as more diverse types of players will be lining up to join trials precisely because the rewards now appeal to a wider variety of players.
Just for your information, besides Craglorn Trials, every trial has:
Multiple Titles
A Motif
A Skin
Housing Items (Achievement Furniture)
A BiS Set (Master Architect/Warmachine was BiS, Relequen, Siroria and Olorime was BiS, False God and Lokke was BiS, RO is BiS)
Sunspire also has a Mount, Kynes has a Memento.
1 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In my own experience, we've had a ton of endgame attrition. Here are the drivers observed:
1. People leaving the game due to bugs, particularly bugged trials and dungeons.
2. People leaving the game due to toxicity in the endgame community.
3. Frustration with constant set changes.
4. Frustration with learning the content mechanics (prog teams who rely on a newer player who fails to do their job lose patience, the newer player hates life, any of them then quit, hops guilds, or change focus).
5. Lack of mentorship - there is a dearth of experienced players who do endgame willing to spend time to teach less experienced players, choosing instead to spend their time selling runs to players willing to pay for clears.
6. Bugged encounter logs - ZOS has an issue where logged trials and dungeons frequently don't properly register boss kills, identify bosses incorrectly, etc. This removes any incentive for players and teams whose motivation is score-pushing for ranking to bother doing the content if their efforts are not scored. ESOLogs is the only resource available that retains content long term, and if it is not working, then there is no reliable persistent leaderboard other than the in-game weekly.
That's pretty much what I have seen in the past two months, having direct personal examples of each.1 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, given a game-killing update in March for Cyrodiil, only now being addressed by a major nerf on Monday by cutting groups in half, added to the endless recycling of characters in storytime (only Orsinium and Mirkmire had completely original characters), and the fact that trials are scripted content painfully extended by adjustments to the random interval reward generator, you're likely to conclude that ESO does not employ a retention model.
And that would be fine. For years and years, we played MMOs for a while and then moved on to another.
Thus the problem here may be that we're blaming ZOS for a dead genre. Many of us remain because we feel there's nowhere else to go.1 -
Mitaka211✭✭✭✭As a returning player , the change in population overall is definitely noticeable. When i quit the game i think it was at it's peak since many players from other mmos were trying it , the servers barely worked at the time due to it. I think the game has so many problems , plus the unrealistic hype of what a great game it is did not work. I think what happened is , it managed to retain very few of those new players trying the game, veteran players quit as a result of achieving what they wanted or simply being frustrated or bored with the game and honestly it is kinda off putting to returning players too.
My main reason for leaving was frustration with balance and non sensical changes to the original classes and honestly the game not working half the time. And i return to see what? Old classes are stale , some not even changed at all, payed classes are immortal gods in comparison, some gameplay changes that honestly promote lazy playstyles. I am pretty sure i am at a point where i am just waiting for a new mmo to come out, kinda feel done with ESO. It's a good game to kill time at the moment as long as you stay away from things that annoy you, which kinda became impossible since the game breaking update that was a week ago.3 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let's just say that last time i saw significant not artificial hype about the game was at summerset release which tells stuff already. Nowadays we have change fatigue and that's due to poorly thought out ones, some of which getting reversed so we mostly live in in-between state right now, is that a full price beta version still? People going away mostly not because they achieved something and get bored but because patches like harrowstorm and markarth where you just barely can play the game.4 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭There needs to be a trial activity finder but naturally standards need to be set.
Using a trial dummy is a great way to set a minimum when it comes to damage dealer role. ZoS just needs a healer dummy, where it measures your HPS and buff uptime (amount of buffs applied vs buff uptime). That could be used as a minimum to measure up as a healer. The tank role should only be unlocked with a clear from another role.
Craglorn normal you just have to be CP50
Normal dlc CP 300
Vet craglorn CP 600
Vet DLC- dps parse requirements, heal test requirements, tank has cleared it before.
What? I tank, I don't DPS often(I am bad at it and couldn't hit whatever ridiculous minimum would have to be met) and I also don't heal often....I am not a healer or DPS, I am a tank...why would I have to do another role to qualify for my role? That is ridiculous. If you wanted to set a minimum requirment of having cleared X amount of DLC vet dungeons that would be far more reasonable.2 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are a lot of problems that others have addressed so I'll just focus on one: rewards!
The truth is, most players are motivated by tangible rewards - things that will signify their status to others or else materially improve their performance (e.g. tools that will help them get more rewards that signify their status to others...). Most players do not care about leaderboards or simply hunting esoteric achievements. But they do care about peacocking.
Since they only come out once per year, every trial should have:- Titles
- A motif
- A skin
- A personality
- A mount(s)
- A pet(s)
- High-quality sets that are BiS at some aspect of progression raiding (see Kyne's Aegis for how NOT do to this)
And extra bonus points for thinking outside-of-the-box and adding something truly spicy like a house and/or houseguest or even more mundane things like hairstyles, more furniture items or a unique Style Page germane to the trial (think of the latter like the Monster Set Style Pages but for weapons and perhaps the chest/legs pieces in styles that evoke those of the prominent trial bosses). Having an Arena-style unique weapon (and only a small, trial-appropriate pool, rather than one of every weapon type) for a guaranteed HM reward would also be an interesting idea (e.g. like "The Celestial Warrior's Greatsword" for beating Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode).
Distribute those rewards across all of the various hierarchical achievements and more as well as more diverse types of players will be lining up to join trials precisely because the rewards now appeal to a wider variety of players.
Just for your information, besides Craglorn Trials, every trial has:
Multiple Titles
A Motif
A Skin
Housing Items (Achievement Furniture)
A BiS Set (Master Architect/Warmachine was BiS, Relequen, Siroria and Olorime was BiS, False God and Lokke was BiS, RO is BiS)
Sunspire also has a Mount, Kynes has a Memento.
Oh, I'm very well aware.
I am saying that ALL trials should have ALL of those rewards as a baseline. Not 1-3 of them picked seemingly at random.0 -
Austinseph1✭✭✭✭✭Most got fed up with all of the problems. The game is great if you play solo but once you start getting into the mmo aspects you really begin to see it's serious flaws.1
-
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do people keep repeating that there are only 6 trials? Which ones are not trials, HRC, AA, SO, MoL, CR, AS, HoF, SS or KA?
And just FYI, I'm not actually asking. Just tired of these same hyperbolic complaints for the past 5 years. Every year seems to be the one when ESO died, somehow. Maybe it has nine lives.
Bcz craglorn trials really dont count. Go join any server on any platform and you will get in a VAA or VHRC group every night with no conditions and clear it. VSO kinda falls in no mans land bcz its is more difficult than the other 2 but you can still get a clear. It is less popular bcz its longer and keeps the healer as a heal bot every second of the trial. In general the other 6 trials are not PUG'd bcz it is increasingly more unlikely that PUG groups will not get a complete and that is where the differentiation comes from.0 -
Thor199389✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Thor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are a lot of problems that others have addressed so I'll just focus on one: rewards!
The truth is, most players are motivated by tangible rewards - things that will signify their status to others or else materially improve their performance (e.g. tools that will help them get more rewards that signify their status to others...). Most players do not care about leaderboards or simply hunting esoteric achievements. But they do care about peacocking.
Since they only come out once per year, every trial should have:- Titles
- A motif
- A skin
- A personality
- A mount(s)
- A pet(s)
- High-quality sets that are BiS at some aspect of progression raiding (see Kyne's Aegis for how NOT do to this)
And extra bonus points for thinking outside-of-the-box and adding something truly spicy like a house and/or houseguest or even more mundane things like hairstyles, more furniture items or a unique Style Page germane to the trial (think of the latter like the Monster Set Style Pages but for weapons and perhaps the chest/legs pieces in styles that evoke those of the prominent trial bosses). Having an Arena-style unique weapon (and only a small, trial-appropriate pool, rather than one of every weapon type) for a guaranteed HM reward would also be an interesting idea (e.g. like "The Celestial Warrior's Greatsword" for beating Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode).
Distribute those rewards across all of the various hierarchical achievements and more as well as more diverse types of players will be lining up to join trials precisely because the rewards now appeal to a wider variety of players.
Just for your information, besides Craglorn Trials, every trial has:
Multiple Titles
A Motif
A Skin
Housing Items (Achievement Furniture)
A BiS Set (Master Architect/Warmachine was BiS, Relequen, Siroria and Olorime was BiS, False God and Lokke was BiS, RO is BiS)
Sunspire also has a Mount, Kynes has a Memento.
Oh, I'm very well aware.
I am saying that ALL trials should have ALL of those rewards as a baseline. Not 1-3 of them picked seemingly at random.
1-3 picked randomly??
All 6 have that and it is not random. All DLC Trials.As a returning player , the change in population overall is definitely noticeable. When i quit the game i think it was at it's peak since many players from other mmos were trying it , the servers barely worked at the time due to it. I think the game has so many problems , plus the unrealistic hype of what a great game it is did not work. I think what happened is , it managed to retain very few of those new players trying the game, veteran players quit as a result of achieving what they wanted or simply being frustrated or bored with the game and honestly it is kinda off putting to returning players too.
My main reason for leaving was frustration with balance and non sensical changes to the original classes and honestly the game not working half the time. And i return to see what? Old classes are stale , some not even changed at all, payed classes are immortal gods in comparison, some gameplay changes that honestly promote lazy playstyles. I am pretty sure i am at a point where i am just waiting for a new mmo to come out, kinda feel done with ESO. It's a good game to kill time at the moment as long as you stay away from things that annoy you, which kinda became impossible since the game breaking update that was a week ago.
"immortal gods"? "payed classes"?
We are talking about PvE and the meta changes basicly every patch.
Before Greymoor MagDK was the strongest Mag DD. It changed to Warden, later to NB and not it is Necro as far as I know.
And refering to necro and warden as payed classes... well yeah, it costs like 20€ to get the expansion and gain excess to HoF, Cloudrest, Sunspire and Kynes Aegis. So you either got no point because you cant complain about not having content because you just dont want to pay for it or you have no point because you got the class.
Overall... How many of you guys actually do raid and do belong to the refered endgame community? Because from my point of view, that part of the community is pretty alive and active.
Tuesday there were
35 Logs from Kynes Aegis
69 Logs from Sunspire
89 Logs from Cloudrest
12 Logs from Asylum
6 Logs from Halls of Fabrication
24 Logs from Maw of Lorkhaj
-> Only thoes who are public, so private logs and thoes who do not log are excluded.
The Craglorn Trials are often excluded from being count as real trial because they are way easier than DLC Trials. Like Drdeath20 mentioned before.
Some exclude Cloudrest and Asylum from counting since they are "Boss only" trials.Edited by Thor199389 on November 12, 2020 11:36AM0 -
caesarvs✭✭✭✭Thor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Thor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are a lot of problems that others have addressed so I'll just focus on one: rewards!
The truth is, most players are motivated by tangible rewards - things that will signify their status to others or else materially improve their performance (e.g. tools that will help them get more rewards that signify their status to others...). Most players do not care about leaderboards or simply hunting esoteric achievements. But they do care about peacocking.
Since they only come out once per year, every trial should have:- Titles
- A motif
- A skin
- A personality
- A mount(s)
- A pet(s)
- High-quality sets that are BiS at some aspect of progression raiding (see Kyne's Aegis for how NOT do to this)
And extra bonus points for thinking outside-of-the-box and adding something truly spicy like a house and/or houseguest or even more mundane things like hairstyles, more furniture items or a unique Style Page germane to the trial (think of the latter like the Monster Set Style Pages but for weapons and perhaps the chest/legs pieces in styles that evoke those of the prominent trial bosses). Having an Arena-style unique weapon (and only a small, trial-appropriate pool, rather than one of every weapon type) for a guaranteed HM reward would also be an interesting idea (e.g. like "The Celestial Warrior's Greatsword" for beating Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode).
Distribute those rewards across all of the various hierarchical achievements and more as well as more diverse types of players will be lining up to join trials precisely because the rewards now appeal to a wider variety of players.
Just for your information, besides Craglorn Trials, every trial has:
Multiple Titles
A Motif
A Skin
Housing Items (Achievement Furniture)
A BiS Set (Master Architect/Warmachine was BiS, Relequen, Siroria and Olorime was BiS, False God and Lokke was BiS, RO is BiS)
Sunspire also has a Mount, Kynes has a Memento.
Oh, I'm very well aware.
I am saying that ALL trials should have ALL of those rewards as a baseline. Not 1-3 of them picked seemingly at random.
1-3 picked randomly??
All 6 have that and it is not random. All DLC Trials.
So, what about Personality, Memento, Mount and Pet as reward for ALL the 6 DLC trials? That's the ones Yandere was talking about too, not only the ones you mentioned. Only SS have mount, only KA have memento, none of them has personality, etc etc. I agree 100% with @YandereGirlfriend, Trials rewards should follow a more complete pattern of what kind of stuff they offer.2 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Either way vThor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Thor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are a lot of problems that others have addressed so I'll just focus on one: rewards!
The truth is, most players are motivated by tangible rewards - things that will signify their status to others or else materially improve their performance (e.g. tools that will help them get more rewards that signify their status to others...). Most players do not care about leaderboards or simply hunting esoteric achievements. But they do care about peacocking.
Since they only come out once per year, every trial should have:- Titles
- A motif
- A skin
- A personality
- A mount(s)
- A pet(s)
- High-quality sets that are BiS at some aspect of progression raiding (see Kyne's Aegis for how NOT do to this)
And extra bonus points for thinking outside-of-the-box and adding something truly spicy like a house and/or houseguest or even more mundane things like hairstyles, more furniture items or a unique Style Page germane to the trial (think of the latter like the Monster Set Style Pages but for weapons and perhaps the chest/legs pieces in styles that evoke those of the prominent trial bosses). Having an Arena-style unique weapon (and only a small, trial-appropriate pool, rather than one of every weapon type) for a guaranteed HM reward would also be an interesting idea (e.g. like "The Celestial Warrior's Greatsword" for beating Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode).
Distribute those rewards across all of the various hierarchical achievements and more as well as more diverse types of players will be lining up to join trials precisely because the rewards now appeal to a wider variety of players.
Just for your information, besides Craglorn Trials, every trial has:
Multiple Titles
A Motif
A Skin
Housing Items (Achievement Furniture)
A BiS Set (Master Architect/Warmachine was BiS, Relequen, Siroria and Olorime was BiS, False God and Lokke was BiS, RO is BiS)
Sunspire also has a Mount, Kynes has a Memento.
Oh, I'm very well aware.
I am saying that ALL trials should have ALL of those rewards as a baseline. Not 1-3 of them picked seemingly at random.
1-3 picked randomly??
All 6 have that and it is not random. All DLC Trials.As a returning player , the change in population overall is definitely noticeable. When i quit the game i think it was at it's peak since many players from other mmos were trying it , the servers barely worked at the time due to it. I think the game has so many problems , plus the unrealistic hype of what a great game it is did not work. I think what happened is , it managed to retain very few of those new players trying the game, veteran players quit as a result of achieving what they wanted or simply being frustrated or bored with the game and honestly it is kinda off putting to returning players too.
My main reason for leaving was frustration with balance and non sensical changes to the original classes and honestly the game not working half the time. And i return to see what? Old classes are stale , some not even changed at all, payed classes are immortal gods in comparison, some gameplay changes that honestly promote lazy playstyles. I am pretty sure i am at a point where i am just waiting for a new mmo to come out, kinda feel done with ESO. It's a good game to kill time at the moment as long as you stay away from things that annoy you, which kinda became impossible since the game breaking update that was a week ago.
"immortal gods"? "payed classes"?
We are talking about PvE and the meta changes basicly every patch.
Before Greymoor MagDK was the strongest Mag DD. It changed to Warden, later to NB and not it is Necro as far as I know.
And refering to necro and warden as payed classes... well yeah, it costs like 20€ to get the expansion and gain excess to HoF, Cloudrest, Sunspire and Kynes Aegis. So you either got no point because you cant complain about not having content because you just dont want to pay for it or you have no point because you got the class.
Overall... How many of you guys actually do raid and do belong to the refered endgame community? Because from my point of view, that part of the community is pretty alive and active.
Tuesday there were
35 Logs from Kynes Aegis
69 Logs from Sunspire
89 Logs from Cloudrest
12 Logs from Asylum
6 Logs from Halls of Fabrication
24 Logs from Maw of Lorkhaj
-> Only thoes who are public, so private logs and thoes who do not log are excluded.
The Craglorn Trials are often excluded from being count as real trial because they are way easier than DLC Trials. Like Drdeath20 mentioned before.
Some exclude Cloudrest and Asylum from counting since they are "Boss only" trials.
Send screen shots
Also how many of these groups completed the raids?
0 -
Thor199389✭✭✭Either way vThor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Thor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are a lot of problems that others have addressed so I'll just focus on one: rewards!
The truth is, most players are motivated by tangible rewards - things that will signify their status to others or else materially improve their performance (e.g. tools that will help them get more rewards that signify their status to others...). Most players do not care about leaderboards or simply hunting esoteric achievements. But they do care about peacocking.
Since they only come out once per year, every trial should have:- Titles
- A motif
- A skin
- A personality
- A mount(s)
- A pet(s)
- High-quality sets that are BiS at some aspect of progression raiding (see Kyne's Aegis for how NOT do to this)
And extra bonus points for thinking outside-of-the-box and adding something truly spicy like a house and/or houseguest or even more mundane things like hairstyles, more furniture items or a unique Style Page germane to the trial (think of the latter like the Monster Set Style Pages but for weapons and perhaps the chest/legs pieces in styles that evoke those of the prominent trial bosses). Having an Arena-style unique weapon (and only a small, trial-appropriate pool, rather than one of every weapon type) for a guaranteed HM reward would also be an interesting idea (e.g. like "The Celestial Warrior's Greatsword" for beating Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode).
Distribute those rewards across all of the various hierarchical achievements and more as well as more diverse types of players will be lining up to join trials precisely because the rewards now appeal to a wider variety of players.
Just for your information, besides Craglorn Trials, every trial has:
Multiple Titles
A Motif
A Skin
Housing Items (Achievement Furniture)
A BiS Set (Master Architect/Warmachine was BiS, Relequen, Siroria and Olorime was BiS, False God and Lokke was BiS, RO is BiS)
Sunspire also has a Mount, Kynes has a Memento.
Oh, I'm very well aware.
I am saying that ALL trials should have ALL of those rewards as a baseline. Not 1-3 of them picked seemingly at random.
1-3 picked randomly??
All 6 have that and it is not random. All DLC Trials.As a returning player , the change in population overall is definitely noticeable. When i quit the game i think it was at it's peak since many players from other mmos were trying it , the servers barely worked at the time due to it. I think the game has so many problems , plus the unrealistic hype of what a great game it is did not work. I think what happened is , it managed to retain very few of those new players trying the game, veteran players quit as a result of achieving what they wanted or simply being frustrated or bored with the game and honestly it is kinda off putting to returning players too.
My main reason for leaving was frustration with balance and non sensical changes to the original classes and honestly the game not working half the time. And i return to see what? Old classes are stale , some not even changed at all, payed classes are immortal gods in comparison, some gameplay changes that honestly promote lazy playstyles. I am pretty sure i am at a point where i am just waiting for a new mmo to come out, kinda feel done with ESO. It's a good game to kill time at the moment as long as you stay away from things that annoy you, which kinda became impossible since the game breaking update that was a week ago.
"immortal gods"? "payed classes"?
We are talking about PvE and the meta changes basicly every patch.
Before Greymoor MagDK was the strongest Mag DD. It changed to Warden, later to NB and not it is Necro as far as I know.
And refering to necro and warden as payed classes... well yeah, it costs like 20€ to get the expansion and gain excess to HoF, Cloudrest, Sunspire and Kynes Aegis. So you either got no point because you cant complain about not having content because you just dont want to pay for it or you have no point because you got the class.
Overall... How many of you guys actually do raid and do belong to the refered endgame community? Because from my point of view, that part of the community is pretty alive and active.
Tuesday there were
35 Logs from Kynes Aegis
69 Logs from Sunspire
89 Logs from Cloudrest
12 Logs from Asylum
6 Logs from Halls of Fabrication
24 Logs from Maw of Lorkhaj
-> Only thoes who are public, so private logs and thoes who do not log are excluded.
The Craglorn Trials are often excluded from being count as real trial because they are way easier than DLC Trials. Like Drdeath20 mentioned before.
Some exclude Cloudrest and Asylum from counting since they are "Boss only" trials.
Send screen shots
Also how many of these groups completed the raids?
cba to screenshot everything. cant believe how lazy you are.
https://www.esologs.com/
look it up yourself.
Is this thread about "where did all the raiders go, that complete every trial first raid"? No. Also, thats only a small aspect of what I wrote that you are focusing on...0 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thor199389 wrote: »Either way vThor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Thor199389 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are a lot of problems that others have addressed so I'll just focus on one: rewards!
The truth is, most players are motivated by tangible rewards - things that will signify their status to others or else materially improve their performance (e.g. tools that will help them get more rewards that signify their status to others...). Most players do not care about leaderboards or simply hunting esoteric achievements. But they do care about peacocking.
Since they only come out once per year, every trial should have:- Titles
- A motif
- A skin
- A personality
- A mount(s)
- A pet(s)
- High-quality sets that are BiS at some aspect of progression raiding (see Kyne's Aegis for how NOT do to this)
And extra bonus points for thinking outside-of-the-box and adding something truly spicy like a house and/or houseguest or even more mundane things like hairstyles, more furniture items or a unique Style Page germane to the trial (think of the latter like the Monster Set Style Pages but for weapons and perhaps the chest/legs pieces in styles that evoke those of the prominent trial bosses). Having an Arena-style unique weapon (and only a small, trial-appropriate pool, rather than one of every weapon type) for a guaranteed HM reward would also be an interesting idea (e.g. like "The Celestial Warrior's Greatsword" for beating Hel-Ra Citadel hard mode).
Distribute those rewards across all of the various hierarchical achievements and more as well as more diverse types of players will be lining up to join trials precisely because the rewards now appeal to a wider variety of players.
Just for your information, besides Craglorn Trials, every trial has:
Multiple Titles
A Motif
A Skin
Housing Items (Achievement Furniture)
A BiS Set (Master Architect/Warmachine was BiS, Relequen, Siroria and Olorime was BiS, False God and Lokke was BiS, RO is BiS)
Sunspire also has a Mount, Kynes has a Memento.
Oh, I'm very well aware.
I am saying that ALL trials should have ALL of those rewards as a baseline. Not 1-3 of them picked seemingly at random.
1-3 picked randomly??
All 6 have that and it is not random. All DLC Trials.As a returning player , the change in population overall is definitely noticeable. When i quit the game i think it was at it's peak since many players from other mmos were trying it , the servers barely worked at the time due to it. I think the game has so many problems , plus the unrealistic hype of what a great game it is did not work. I think what happened is , it managed to retain very few of those new players trying the game, veteran players quit as a result of achieving what they wanted or simply being frustrated or bored with the game and honestly it is kinda off putting to returning players too.
My main reason for leaving was frustration with balance and non sensical changes to the original classes and honestly the game not working half the time. And i return to see what? Old classes are stale , some not even changed at all, payed classes are immortal gods in comparison, some gameplay changes that honestly promote lazy playstyles. I am pretty sure i am at a point where i am just waiting for a new mmo to come out, kinda feel done with ESO. It's a good game to kill time at the moment as long as you stay away from things that annoy you, which kinda became impossible since the game breaking update that was a week ago.
"immortal gods"? "payed classes"?
We are talking about PvE and the meta changes basicly every patch.
Before Greymoor MagDK was the strongest Mag DD. It changed to Warden, later to NB and not it is Necro as far as I know.
And refering to necro and warden as payed classes... well yeah, it costs like 20€ to get the expansion and gain excess to HoF, Cloudrest, Sunspire and Kynes Aegis. So you either got no point because you cant complain about not having content because you just dont want to pay for it or you have no point because you got the class.
Overall... How many of you guys actually do raid and do belong to the refered endgame community? Because from my point of view, that part of the community is pretty alive and active.
Tuesday there were
35 Logs from Kynes Aegis
69 Logs from Sunspire
89 Logs from Cloudrest
12 Logs from Asylum
6 Logs from Halls of Fabrication
24 Logs from Maw of Lorkhaj
-> Only thoes who are public, so private logs and thoes who do not log are excluded.
The Craglorn Trials are often excluded from being count as real trial because they are way easier than DLC Trials. Like Drdeath20 mentioned before.
Some exclude Cloudrest and Asylum from counting since they are "Boss only" trials.
Send screen shots
Also how many of these groups completed the raids?
cba to screenshot everything. cant believe how lazy you are.
https://www.esologs.com/
look it up yourself.
Is this thread about "where did all the raiders go, that complete every trial first raid"? No. Also, thats only a small aspect of what I wrote that you are focusing on...
Not everyone here knows what you mean by logs (I do), but just stating a list this day and age isn't good enough
Thank you for your effort
0 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭There needs to be a trial activity finder but naturally standards need to be set.
Using a trial dummy is a great way to set a minimum when it comes to damage dealer role. ZoS just needs a healer dummy, where it measures your HPS and buff uptime (amount of buffs applied vs buff uptime). That could be used as a minimum to measure up as a healer. The tank role should only be unlocked with a clear from another role.
Craglorn normal you just have to be CP50
Normal dlc CP 300
Vet craglorn CP 600
Vet DLC- dps parse requirements, heal test requirements, tank has cleared it before.
I can see wanting a DPS to have minimum output but being able to hit those numbers on a target dummy just means someone can stand in one place and push buttons in order. Doesn't mean they won't be absolute crap at staying alive and doing a rotation when things get hectic.
And wanting to force tanks to play through as a DPS before they can queue for their preferred role just seems like a really really good way to ensure that you never get any new tanks for trials.
0
