Where did all the raiders go?

Rustyfish101

I can really only speak for myself personally, but I've found that the end-game as a whole has always been quite tumultuous. It comes and goes in waves. There's been a pretty clear dip in people wanting to do regular trials for about a year or two now I'd say. I think a lot of the more recent changes has been more because of real life stuff getting in the way. People don't have the time and money to play this game like they used to. However a year or two ago obviously this wasn't the case, and I'm a firm believer in the fact that it's one of two things if not both that is impacting it the most.

The skill gap is real, and its huge. It's no secret the trial community is skilled, but its also no secret it's full of people who have inflated egos and look down on anyone who might want to do trials but are unsure how. (This is why I made my guild all those years ago, one of those "fine I'll do it myself" scenarios.) It's difficult for the average person to do more than a pug normal trial because access to reliable guides, that aren't one size fit all and people who are patient enough to teach are slim to none. That plus people who are skilled get frustrated and leave means there's a hole to fill that isn't being filled. If you need these super hard achievements that the average person can't easily find a group for, let alone get, plus this very specific BIS set (that may or may not make sense to you) it's going to turn people away rather than invite their curiosity to try something new and scary.

There just aren't enough trials nor reason to repeat them. This has been said lots but it's a valid point and wouldn't be brought up if it weren't true. There are only 9 trials in the game. You can only do the same 9 things so much before you get bored. I'm not like that, I love doing something over and over until I'm perfect at it, but the average person does not find that enjoyable. There is no reason to do these trials. Good gear does not drop from them, save a few that are really only good for trials themselves. Most of the best gear someone can get is either crafted or from a dungeon/ arena. The only reason to do trials is for the titles and skins. Why do people repeat pledges or farm vMA? There's something special that drops from those that doesn't drop anywhere else. Monster helms, special weapons. What do trials not have? Something unique to them. Sure you could argue AS has weapons, but be honest, does anyone really use them? Does anyone find them that worthwhile? And so, no one sees a point in doing them unless that's their idea of fun, unless they've played an MMO before and know already whether raids are their thing. Then they see ESO has only 9 and get bored after a few months-a couple years because they've done everything.

Honestly our only hope for things to get better is for ZOS to put something special with the trials, like a massive overhaul to give us a good reason to do them. And for us as a community to be more inclusive and focus on what 12 mans are all about in the first place, working together to bring each other up. We need to not be excluding those who we see as less accomplished, and instead see them as someone with potential who needs a gentle guide, not to be overwhelmed by restrictions.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it gets the message across clearly.

Edit: Oh, just seen another good reason for people to repeat, don't know why I didn't think of it. Trials give a ridiculously low amount of Transmute crystals for the time and effort put into them. If trials gave more transmute crystals than a random normal that too would increase the amount of people doing them. Even just 25 crystals for the weekly/ weekly quest would give people loads of incentive to farm them regularly.

CrashTest

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

I can really only speak for myself personally, but I've found that the end-game as a whole has always been quite tumultuous. It comes and goes in waves. There's been a pretty clear dip in people wanting to do regular trials for about a year or two now I'd say. I think a lot of the more recent changes has been more because of real life stuff getting in the way. People don't have the time and money to play this game like they used to. However a year or two ago obviously this wasn't the case, and I'm a firm believer in the fact that it's one of two things if not both that is impacting it the most.

The skill gap is real, and its huge. It's no secret the trial community is skilled, but its also no secret it's full of people who have inflated egos and look down on anyone who might want to do trials but are unsure how. (This is why I made my guild all those years ago, one of those "fine I'll do it myself" scenarios.) It's difficult for the average person to do more than a pug normal trial because access to reliable guides, that aren't one size fit all and people who are patient enough to teach are slim to none. That plus people who are skilled get frustrated and leave means there's a hole to fill that isn't being filled. If you need these super hard achievements that the average person can't easily find a group for, let alone get, plus this very specific BIS set (that may or may not make sense to you) it's going to turn people away rather than invite their curiosity to try something new and scary.

There just aren't enough trials nor reason to repeat them. This has been said lots but it's a valid point and wouldn't be brought up if it weren't true. There are only 6 trials in the game. You can only do the same 6 things so much before you get bored. I'm not like that, I love doing something over and over until I'm perfect at it, but the average person does not find that enjoyable. There is no reason to do these trials. Good gear does not drop from them, save a few that are really only good for trials themselves. Most of the best gear someone can get is either crafted or from a dungeon/ arena. The only reason to do trials is for the titles and skins. Why do people repeat pledges or farm vMA? There's something special that drops from those that doesn't drop anywhere else. Monster helms, special weapons. What do trials not have? Something unique to them. Sure you could argue AS has weapons, but be honest, does anyone really use them? Does anyone find them that worthwhile? And so, no one sees a point in doing them unless that's their idea of fun, unless they've played an MMO before and know already whether raids are their thing. Then they see ESO has only 6 and get bored after a few months-a couple years because they've done everything.

Honestly our only hope for things to get better is for ZOS to put something special with the trials, like a massive overhaul to give us a good reason to do them. And for us as a community to be more inclusive and focus on what 12 mans are all about in the first place, working together to bring each other up. We need to not be excluding those who we see as less accomplished, and instead see them as someone with potential who needs a gentle guide, not to be overwhelmed by restrictions.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it gets the message across clearly.

Edit: Oh, just seen another good reason for people to repeat, don't know why I didn't think of it. Trials give a ridiculously low amount of Transmute crystals for the time and effort put into them. If trials gave more transmute crystals than a random normal that too would increase the amount of people doing them. Even just 25 crystals for the weekly/ weekly quest would give people loads of incentive to farm them regularly.

Seems like you haven't played ESO in awhile. There are 9 trials now and the gear from trials is actually quite good and BiS for things besides trials.

Also, I haven't encountered that many elitists in endgame as you have (PC NA). They certainly are there, but not enough to create a barrier to anyone wanting to get into trials. I notice elitism more in pugs than organized play. The organized trials community as a whole is helpful and welcoming to new trial runners. It's just too bad that our numbers have dwindled.

Tsar_Gekkou

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

Edit: Oh, just seen another good reason for people to repeat, don't know why I didn't think of it. Trials give a ridiculously low amount of Transmute crystals for the time and effort put into them. If trials gave more transmute crystals than a random normal that too would increase the amount of people doing them. Even just 25 crystals for the weekly/ weekly quest would give people loads of incentive to farm them regularly.

A better fix would be getting platings from deconstructing jewelry instead of dust. More people would run vet trials for gold jewelry to decon if you had a chance at a plating instead of having to run x10 more than you normally would for possibly the same result.

Drdeath20

CrashTest wrote: »

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

I can really only speak for myself personally, but I've found that the end-game as a whole has always been quite tumultuous. It comes and goes in waves. There's been a pretty clear dip in people wanting to do regular trials for about a year or two now I'd say. I think a lot of the more recent changes has been more because of real life stuff getting in the way. People don't have the time and money to play this game like they used to. However a year or two ago obviously this wasn't the case, and I'm a firm believer in the fact that it's one of two things if not both that is impacting it the most.

The skill gap is real, and its huge. It's no secret the trial community is skilled, but its also no secret it's full of people who have inflated egos and look down on anyone who might want to do trials but are unsure how. (This is why I made my guild all those years ago, one of those "fine I'll do it myself" scenarios.) It's difficult for the average person to do more than a pug normal trial because access to reliable guides, that aren't one size fit all and people who are patient enough to teach are slim to none. That plus people who are skilled get frustrated and leave means there's a hole to fill that isn't being filled. If you need these super hard achievements that the average person can't easily find a group for, let alone get, plus this very specific BIS set (that may or may not make sense to you) it's going to turn people away rather than invite their curiosity to try something new and scary.

There just aren't enough trials nor reason to repeat them. This has been said lots but it's a valid point and wouldn't be brought up if it weren't true. There are only 6 trials in the game. You can only do the same 6 things so much before you get bored. I'm not like that, I love doing something over and over until I'm perfect at it, but the average person does not find that enjoyable. There is no reason to do these trials. Good gear does not drop from them, save a few that are really only good for trials themselves. Most of the best gear someone can get is either crafted or from a dungeon/ arena. The only reason to do trials is for the titles and skins. Why do people repeat pledges or farm vMA? There's something special that drops from those that doesn't drop anywhere else. Monster helms, special weapons. What do trials not have? Something unique to them. Sure you could argue AS has weapons, but be honest, does anyone really use them? Does anyone find them that worthwhile? And so, no one sees a point in doing them unless that's their idea of fun, unless they've played an MMO before and know already whether raids are their thing. Then they see ESO has only 6 and get bored after a few months-a couple years because they've done everything.

Honestly our only hope for things to get better is for ZOS to put something special with the trials, like a massive overhaul to give us a good reason to do them. And for us as a community to be more inclusive and focus on what 12 mans are all about in the first place, working together to bring each other up. We need to not be excluding those who we see as less accomplished, and instead see them as someone with potential who needs a gentle guide, not to be overwhelmed by restrictions.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it gets the message across clearly.

Edit: Oh, just seen another good reason for people to repeat, don't know why I didn't think of it. Trials give a ridiculously low amount of Transmute crystals for the time and effort put into them. If trials gave more transmute crystals than a random normal that too would increase the amount of people doing them. Even just 25 crystals for the weekly/ weekly quest would give people loads of incentive to farm them regularly.

Seems like you haven't played ESO in awhile. There are 9 trials now and the gear from trials is actually quite good and BiS for things besides trials.

Also, I haven't encountered that many elitists in endgame as you have (PC NA). They certainly are there, but not enough to create a barrier to anyone wanting to get into trials. I notice elitism more in pugs than organized play. The organized trials community as a whole is helpful and welcoming to new trial runners. It's just too bad that our numbers have dwindled.

do craglorn trials really count?

Veles

The quality of the raid content is poor. Since MOL and HOF, which were last real trials, all other trials are hack work, and their maximum can be called group arenas for 12 people. Dungeons much more interesting than trial content last days. Hardcore players are simply bored with this game. Moreover, the game is sliding more and more towards casualness.

Among other things, earlier there was at least some "balance" (if u allow me to say this word) in terms of the ratio: complexity of the content - group damage. Now balance in PVE is so flawed that old content is simply not interesting, because group damage allows skip mechanics. And new content consists in the fact that in battle with maximum 5-6 hard mechanics of the boss, all they did was add a billion health to the boss. That's how we live.

I can only confirm that old players are leaving the game, and this is beneficial to ZOS, there will be fewer people with complaints on the forum. Experienced players and hardcore players are not the audience Zenimax works for. Most of the money comes from people who love quests and simple evening runs

Idinuse

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

A lot either accomplished what they wanted to, or just stopped playing because of how buggy the game is. PS4 NA feels like a ghost town.

https://youtu.be/LNNPNweSbp8

CrashTest

Drdeath20 wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

I can really only speak for myself personally, but I've found that the end-game as a whole has always been quite tumultuous. It comes and goes in waves. There's been a pretty clear dip in people wanting to do regular trials for about a year or two now I'd say. I think a lot of the more recent changes has been more because of real life stuff getting in the way. People don't have the time and money to play this game like they used to. However a year or two ago obviously this wasn't the case, and I'm a firm believer in the fact that it's one of two things if not both that is impacting it the most.

The skill gap is real, and its huge. It's no secret the trial community is skilled, but its also no secret it's full of people who have inflated egos and look down on anyone who might want to do trials but are unsure how. (This is why I made my guild all those years ago, one of those "fine I'll do it myself" scenarios.) It's difficult for the average person to do more than a pug normal trial because access to reliable guides, that aren't one size fit all and people who are patient enough to teach are slim to none. That plus people who are skilled get frustrated and leave means there's a hole to fill that isn't being filled. If you need these super hard achievements that the average person can't easily find a group for, let alone get, plus this very specific BIS set (that may or may not make sense to you) it's going to turn people away rather than invite their curiosity to try something new and scary.

There just aren't enough trials nor reason to repeat them. This has been said lots but it's a valid point and wouldn't be brought up if it weren't true. There are only 6 trials in the game. You can only do the same 6 things so much before you get bored. I'm not like that, I love doing something over and over until I'm perfect at it, but the average person does not find that enjoyable. There is no reason to do these trials. Good gear does not drop from them, save a few that are really only good for trials themselves. Most of the best gear someone can get is either crafted or from a dungeon/ arena. The only reason to do trials is for the titles and skins. Why do people repeat pledges or farm vMA? There's something special that drops from those that doesn't drop anywhere else. Monster helms, special weapons. What do trials not have? Something unique to them. Sure you could argue AS has weapons, but be honest, does anyone really use them? Does anyone find them that worthwhile? And so, no one sees a point in doing them unless that's their idea of fun, unless they've played an MMO before and know already whether raids are their thing. Then they see ESO has only 6 and get bored after a few months-a couple years because they've done everything.

Honestly our only hope for things to get better is for ZOS to put something special with the trials, like a massive overhaul to give us a good reason to do them. And for us as a community to be more inclusive and focus on what 12 mans are all about in the first place, working together to bring each other up. We need to not be excluding those who we see as less accomplished, and instead see them as someone with potential who needs a gentle guide, not to be overwhelmed by restrictions.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it gets the message across clearly.

Edit: Oh, just seen another good reason for people to repeat, don't know why I didn't think of it. Trials give a ridiculously low amount of Transmute crystals for the time and effort put into them. If trials gave more transmute crystals than a random normal that too would increase the amount of people doing them. Even just 25 crystals for the weekly/ weekly quest would give people loads of incentive to farm them regularly.

Seems like you haven't played ESO in awhile. There are 9 trials now and the gear from trials is actually quite good and BiS for things besides trials.

Also, I haven't encountered that many elitists in endgame as you have (PC NA). They certainly are there, but not enough to create a barrier to anyone wanting to get into trials. I notice elitism more in pugs than organized play. The organized trials community as a whole is helpful and welcoming to new trial runners. It's just too bad that our numbers have dwindled.

do craglorn trials really count?

Yes, why not? They're trials and still run often especially HRC.

It's like asking if base game dungeons really count as dungeons.

CrashTest

Veles wrote: »

The quality of the raid content is poor. Since MOL and HOF, which were last real trials, all other trials are hack work, and their maximum can be called group arenas for 12 people. Dungeons much more interesting than trial content last days. Hardcore players are simply bored with this game. Moreover, the game is sliding more and more towards casualness.

Among other things, earlier there was at least some "balance" (if u allow me to say this word) in terms of the ratio: complexity of the content - group damage. Now balance in PVE is so flawed that old content is simply not interesting, because group damage allows skip mechanics. And new content consists in the fact that in battle with maximum 5-6 hard mechanics of the boss, all they did was add a billion health to the boss. That's how we live.

I can only confirm that old players are leaving the game, and this is beneficial to ZOS, there will be fewer people with complaints on the forum. Experienced players and hardcore players are not the audience Zenimax works for. Most of the money comes from people who love quests and simple evening runs

This is exactly what I'm starting to realize.

UntilValhalla13

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

Edit: Oh, just seen another good reason for people to repeat, don't know why I didn't think of it. Trials give a ridiculously low amount of Transmute crystals for the time and effort put into them. If trials gave more transmute crystals than a random normal that too would increase the amount of people doing them. Even just 25 crystals for the weekly/ weekly quest would give people loads of incentive to farm them regularly.

A better fix would be getting platings from deconstructing jewelry instead of dust. More people would run vet trials for gold jewelry to decon if you had a chance at a plating instead of having to run x10 more than you normally would for possibly the same result.

The last gold trial jewelry drop that I deconned gave me like 1 piece of platinum. Literally, 1 piece. No gold dust, nothing. It's laughably bad.

AyaDark

Aznarb wrote: »

Was used to run a lot of raid/hm/trifecta, but after a break I didn't have fun anymore doing it running each time the same couple of set, playing "this meta class" to support the group instead of the one I love, gathering success on class I don't care about, more and more boring to me.

Now, since 3-4 month I've switch in a casual guild with many low skill / beginner and I teach them and made fun themed build, I really enjoyed the game way more this way now.
So yeah I can't do the most challenging content anymore, but that not really a problem, their is so much more to do.

Guess we all change when time pass.

That even was not a problem if players who really are low skilled abusing there meta to others.

People would just play like they like and do a content.

Because of some mad brainers, who put stupid sets on tanks and etc, people just say - nope, not interesting.

I newer have a problems with people with small dps, low cp and etc, for example we do vMOL from 6+ people who did not pass it on weekends with only 250 k dps.

From first try, 3 hours, 1 hour of it + we tell what to do. 1 hour wipes and learn runers.
1 hour to pass.

It is not a oroblem, this game is not a problem, if you do mechanics.

But some low skill gamers can no do it, so they just try to skip it, saying that it is some "elit way".

It is not, we do vSS with half party 180+, we do vMOL with 500+ cp players half of party was first time.

No problem at all.

Problems are when low skilled "elit" players try to skip all the fight. Because they can do nothing more than hit dummy.

And with there numbers on it they try to show there skill, but there isno skill at all, justbwlieve me

Aznarb

Veles wrote: »

The quality of the raid content is poor. Since MOL and HOF, which were last real trials, all other trials are hack work, and their maximum can be called group arenas for 12 people. Dungeons much more interesting than trial content last days. Hardcore players are simply bored with this game. Moreover, the game is sliding more and more towards casualness.

Among other things, earlier there was at least some "balance" (if u allow me to say this word) in terms of the ratio: complexity of the content - group damage. Now balance in PVE is so flawed that old content is simply not interesting, because group damage allows skip mechanics. And new content consists in the fact that in battle with maximum 5-6 hard mechanics of the boss, all they did was add a billion health to the boss. That's how we live.

I can only confirm that old players are leaving the game, and this is beneficial to ZOS, there will be fewer people with complaints on the forum. Experienced players and hardcore players are not the audience Zenimax works for. Most of the money comes from people who love quests and simple evening runs

Agree.
To my eyes, DPS check are just a lack of imagination and lock content for so many people and not only because they're not good enough.
Some as old and can do to much skill-La rota without getting hurt, some have bad connection, and some have problem with game perf despite them running in very good pc.
(and my Guild leader have all 3 at the same time ! xD)

DPs check shouldn't be a thing, the good point of mechanic is it won't limite average dps player (still need a minimum of Dps ofc) if they try again and again they will get it one day.
But DPS check is so old... That the main reason with Tank and heal playing only set that push dmg more and not actual support/defensive/heal boost set.

Scalescaller pick is a good exemple of non-dps check DG and for many people it's still one of the hardest.
And it still allow good dps to do it faster by skipping mech, win-win for all.

craigr02

Back in the day you could sale trial gear. That gave people a great reason to do them. Maybe Zos will change back to that for trials again.

josiahva

Aznarb wrote: »

Was used to run a lot of raid/hm/trifecta, but after a break I didn't have fun anymore doing it running each time the same couple of set, playing "this meta class" to support the group instead of the one I love, gathering success on class I don't care about, more and more boring to me.

Now, since 3-4 month I've switch in a casual guild with many low skill / beginner and I teach them and made fun themed build, I really enjoyed the game way more this way now.
So yeah I can't do the most challenging content anymore, but that not really a problem, their is so much more to do.

Guess we all change when time pass.

^^This. As time goes on, a lot of people have less patience for playing meta builds for guilds that have ridiculous requirements for entry. If I feel like I have to fill out a job application to get a trial spot...I am simply not doing it...would much rather spend my time playing a build I enjoy....casual guilds are great for an actual fun experience...you don't get that from end-game raiding guilds.

Stinkyremy

Drdeath20 wrote: »

How many times can you play the same 6 trials? Plus discord removed the necessity to crowd belkarth wayshrine. Long standing bugs, odd nerfs amongst many other things.

There is just not enough to do and there is little reason to do it over and over and over and over again etc...

Without discord its tough to get a good group to clear and well discord makes it feel like a 2nd job setting up appointments to do hard trial stuff. ZoS needs to have a better grouping system with actual role standards.

More than anything i want to que up and get into doing stuff using a que that i have semi faith in that locks out harder content until certain standards are met. I want to do this in game so i dont have to use an APP to make an appointment with some weirdo who posts 20 weird anime fart *** memes a day.

This.
I am an end game player but quit playing because finding end game teams are hard enough.
It shouldn't be so complicated to find a capable team to do end game content with in game.

josiahva

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

How many times can you play the same 6 trials? Plus discord removed the necessity to crowd belkarth wayshrine. Long standing bugs, odd nerfs amongst many other things.

There is just not enough to do and there is little reason to do it over and over and over and over again etc...

Without discord its tough to get a good group to clear and well discord makes it feel like a 2nd job setting up appointments to do hard trial stuff. ZoS needs to have a better grouping system with actual role standards.

More than anything i want to que up and get into doing stuff using a que that i have semi faith in that locks out harder content until certain standards are met. I want to do this in game so i dont have to use an APP to make an appointment with some weirdo who posts 20 weird anime fart *** memes a day.

This.
I am an end game player but quit playing because finding end game teams are hard enough.
It shouldn't be so complicated to find a capable team to do end game content with in game.

It would be far easier if they just added a group finder for trials...sure, it would be a disaster quite often, but at least it would allow an entry point to end game trials for a lot of people, allow people to cycle in and out and practice the fights(regardless of whether they ever finish a trial through it)...just like group finder when new dungeons drop...a disaster of pugs for a few weeks until people start to learn the fights, then perfectly doable.

thadjarvis

I don't disagree that trial community could improve and transmute incentives is pretty lacking. However, there appear to be a few factual inaccuracies in the original post.

"People don't have the time and money to play this game like they used to.."
Gaming and specifically ESO gaming has skyrocketed during covid. So, the general gamer population is there.

"...access to reliable guides, that aren't one size fit all and people who are patient enough to teach are slim to none..."
Yes guides can be hard to find, but against that 3 new sites have popped up in the last few months to combat that specifically: likk.gg, eso-u.com, thetankclub.com . Content creators for those sites among others also stream instructional courses. They are super helpful answering questions on discords etc. The info is there. Seek it out.

"...rather than invite their curiosity to try something new and scary..."
A group of friends can follow a long pathway of difficulty levels within and across the available trials without taking big scary jumps. If you need help figuring out that pathway, I'd be happy to help.

"There are only 6 trials in the game...no reason to do these trials"
There are 9 and each one has gear or in-game economic reasons to run it. For one, isn't it the only source of gold jewelry next to PvP vendor?
AA: VO
HRC: VO, AY, and Poison Serpent has been used in PvP
SO: VO, TFS
CR: All 4 sets
AS: polymorph is sought after and sells well; 2h, bow, and destro are used
MoL: Alkosh
HoF: WM & MA
SS: Yoln, FG, Lokk
KA: RO, Yandir and some groups find use for Kyne, Vrol

Even after clearing all trials and getting all the gear many players continue to run them for various reasons:
-harder achievements like no death
-higher whatever. "Whatever" being score, parse, boss time, etc
-trying new tactics with friends bc it's fun to reverse engineer/optimize
-do goofy stuff: all one class, werewolves, all pets etc.
-lead and help others learn trials for first clears and beyond
-etc

Drdeath20

Discord is great and all but i just want to log in and join a trial que in game rather than make an appointment. The biggest problem is ZoS deciding to set a standard to unlock it.

Stinkyremy

josiahva wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

How many times can you play the same 6 trials? Plus discord removed the necessity to crowd belkarth wayshrine. Long standing bugs, odd nerfs amongst many other things.

There is just not enough to do and there is little reason to do it over and over and over and over again etc...

Without discord its tough to get a good group to clear and well discord makes it feel like a 2nd job setting up appointments to do hard trial stuff. ZoS needs to have a better grouping system with actual role standards.

More than anything i want to que up and get into doing stuff using a que that i have semi faith in that locks out harder content until certain standards are met. I want to do this in game so i dont have to use an APP to make an appointment with some weirdo who posts 20 weird anime fart *** memes a day.

This.
I am an end game player but quit playing because finding end game teams are hard enough.
It shouldn't be so complicated to find a capable team to do end game content with in game.

It would be far easier if they just added a group finder for trials...sure, it would be a disaster quite often, but at least it would allow an entry point to end game trials for a lot of people, allow people to cycle in and out and practice the fights(regardless of whether they ever finish a trial through it)...just like group finder when new dungeons drop...a disaster of pugs for a few weeks until people start to learn the fights, then perfectly doable.

I don't know how it would work but something like that is needed.
It is probably a bit too much for ZOS to be able to create but an endorsement system, like people vote who is top and roles. good healer, good tank, good raid leader ect. DPS tests for entry maybe. MAX CP only, 1 week account ban for quitting ect.

As it is now I have to search in game, on forums, discord to find a group to do content with that are capable, then I am at their mercy of what sets and skills I have to use, plus being a noob to the team so I am on a back burner..
It's anti fun, when all I want to do is complete the trials for in game gear/rewards and in game achievements.

thadjarvis

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Discord is great and all but i just want to log in and join a trial que in game rather than make an appointment. The biggest problem is ZoS deciding to set a standard to unlock it.

You can go to certain zones (Craglorn is such a hub) and join the first trial announced and get into a trial maybe just as fast as random dungeon finder. If you want a specific trial and difficulty of which there are over 30, then yes you will have to wait a long time either finding a group or filling your own. Think how long does it take to que for 1 dlc dungeon as a DPS and that's 4 not 12 players.

It's very simple to start your own group if the content you want is not offered by someone else in zone chat. If it doesn't fill, there just isn't demand to pug that content.

Drdeath20

There needs to be a trial activity finder but naturally standards need to be set.

Using a trial dummy is a great way to set a minimum when it comes to damage dealer role. ZoS just needs a healer dummy, where it measures your HPS and buff uptime (amount of buffs applied vs buff uptime). That could be used as a minimum to measure up as a healer. The tank role should only be unlocked with a clear from another role.

Craglorn normal you just have to be CP50

Normal dlc CP 300

Vet craglorn CP 600

Vet DLC- dps parse requirements, heal test requirements, tank has cleared it before.

Drdeath20

thadjarvis wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Discord is great and all but i just want to log in and join a trial que in game rather than make an appointment. The biggest problem is ZoS deciding to set a standard to unlock it.

You can go to certain zones (Craglorn is such a hub) and join the first trial announced and get into a trial maybe just as fast as random dungeon finder. If you want a specific trial and difficulty of which there are over 30, then yes you will have to wait a long time either finding a group or filling your own. Think how long does it take to que for 1 dlc dungeon as a DPS and that's 4 not 12 players.

It's very simple to start your own group if the content you want is not offered by someone else in zone chat. If it doesn't fill, there just isn't demand to pug that content.

Group finder has a problem bcz vet dungeon ranges from fungal frotto 1 to unhallowed (where there are alot of dps mechanics). There is no difference in ZoS's eyes. This with a 15 minute penalty for dropping made healers and tanks less likely to que and more likely to choose to group up.

thadjarvis

@Drdeath20

Other people will want other requirements for their group. Your criteria exists. Port to craglorn and type in

/zone LFM vHRC, CP >600, type 'x' to join

Drdeath20

thadjarvis wrote: »

@Drdeath20

Other people will want other requirements for their group. Your criteria exists. Port to craglorn and type in

/zone LFM vHRC, CP >600, type 'x' to join

Its a flimsy system. You and I know it exists and tons of others but not everybody does.

thadjarvis

It can be a little flimsy if some white lie about experience, but typically that'll only be a few. You only need one healer; so grab two and one is likely to be functional. It can be detrimental if it's a tank. It's simplest to just be the tank yourself; you only need 1 for most zone pug stuff. Have you done this. It's quite reliable way to farm the generally accepted zone puggable content.

kathandira

CrashTest wrote: »

I took a break early this year and came back recently to find most of the endgame raiders gone. The endgame community wasn't that large to begin with, but it's even worse now.

What happened?

ETA: PC NA

Can only repeat the same content and mechanics so many times till the novelty wears off. This game is lacking innovation, and players are moving onto things that give them a new experience.

zvavi

josiahva wrote: »

It would be far easier if they just added a group finder for trials...sure, it would be a disaster quite often, but at least it would allow an entry point to end game trials for a lot of people, allow people to cycle in and out and practice the fights(regardless of whether they ever finish a trial through it)...just like group finder when new dungeons drop...a disaster of pugs for a few weeks until people start to learn the fights, then perfectly doable.

I generally find the first few weeks of dungeon release as pug paradise, pugs that actually know what they are doing/can adapt fill the queue, and success rate for dlc dungeons go higher than the usual 70%.

Tannus15

Still working through content.

got my first vSS HM clear the other day, we'll get a few more people through and then move on the vKA HM and then probably back to prog vCR+3

So to answer your question, we're busy doing trials.

I've also been seeing a bunch of new people coming through, have helped a bunch recently get their first vMoL, vHoF etc.

This week is bad, because of the weaving issues, but in general, things are looking pretty good anecdotally.

T3h_Automator

JinMori wrote: »

The game has some problems.

SOOOOOME? this game is [snip]. soooo many bugs, each patch makes it worse. loooooooooool. rip eso

[Edited to remove Profanity]

AyaDark

Drdeath20 wrote: »

There needs to be a trial activity finder but naturally standards need to be set.

Using a trial dummy is a great way to set a minimum when it comes to damage dealer role. ZoS just needs a healer dummy, where it measures your HPS and buff uptime (amount of buffs applied vs buff uptime). That could be used as a minimum to measure up as a healer. The tank role should only be unlocked with a clear from another role.

Craglorn normal you just have to be CP50

Normal dlc CP 300

Vet craglorn CP 600

Vet DLC- dps parse requirements, heal test requirements, tank has cleared it before.

Dummy do not show anything. We do a lot of trials with low dps players of low CP, but we could not do it if players have high dps but are stupid.

And trial dummy was made to long ago, it do not support a lot of game styles.

In raid you need 3 sets to suport atro dummy not sustainers, but if some sustained builds it can be 3 more dps gain sets. So test on atro is not even fair enough, because it was made to emprove only one raid meta of 2018 year and now it is 2020 with a lot of changes.

Thor199389

Some posts in here are just so funny to read...
The statements are just so wrong, I dont know where to start.

1) "There are no 'elitist players' willing to teach"
Wrong. There are so many groups out there that are searching for everything, Tanks, DDs, Healer, and are willing to explain. Either you are too lazy to search for them or you do not want to follow their calls.

2) "Low skilled elitist players want to skip mechanics but you can play everything with low dps when you do mechanics"
Not everyone that sees himself or herself as "elitist player" is actually a good player.
Playing mechanics requires skill too. Some mechanics are also damage related. For example the mentioned Scalecaller peak as dungeon without damage check - it does have a damage check: final boss winter storm - you have to kill the giants in time.
If you need to play mechanics because of low dps it is likely that you do not make it because mechanics are often even harder than just doing damage. Also, what many people do not see: if you have low damage and have to play additional stuff, you are outsourcing stuff to tanks and healers. More adds because of low damage? Tank has a way harder job. Maw of Lorkhajs first boss - low damage? good luck to the healers making it through the shieldphase.

3) "Trial queue and a 1 week ban for leaving"
...
So you force people to stay in a group that failes something for the 100th time, despite you explaining it 99 times and trying your best?

4) "Dummy parses do not apply to trials therefore not usefull"
Yes, you are right, there is a diffrence in numbers, dps etc.
But if you are not able to deal damage on a static target, do you really believe, you are able to deal damage on a moving target where you have to think about when to cast what skill?

5) "Its all about Sets and meta"
well yeah, to squeeze out the full damage possible, sets do make the difference. But the biggest difference comes from the actuall rotation.

6) "Entrance limited for CP xxx"
CP do help, thats it. High CP does not mean that someone is experienced in any trial or group content. Low CP does mean someone is not capable of compeeting in a group.

7) Back to the original question of the post "where did all the raiders go?"
They are still there. Just go to esologs or look through the leaderboards. there are plenty of groups doing trials.
Sure, some players quit the game, but also some new player joined and there are always people willing to improve.
Yes, it is not easy to actuall progress for clears because all groupmembers are unexperienced. But it works.

After reading all this, you have diffrent options:
- Call me toxic and deny everything
- Think about it and argue about some points. Hell, I know Im not right with everything too.