Can you please stop buffing ball groups

Tiphis · November 2020

Good god just come out and tell us that you want everybody to be in a ball group and if you aren't you are playing the game wrong. Using my solo magdk build, running in a ball group would get me at least 1500 more spell damage and 1400 more mag regen.

SgtNuttzmeg · November 2020

You don't need to run in a ball group to get those buffs. Also you can do perfectly fine outside of a ball group without those buffs.

Vizirith · November 2020

Tiphis · November 2020

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

You don't need to run in a ball group to get those buffs. Also you can do perfectly fine outside of a ball group without those buffs.

True you just need to run in a coordinated group of people who coordinate sets, abilities, heals, stay close toge- wait a minute.

I don't disagree that you can do perfectly fine outside of ball group so long as you don't ever fight one. If everybody doesn't group then you are exactly right.

Although could you please tell me how I can run Powerful Assault, get minor sorcery, minor intellect, minor endurance, olorimes, BSW, BTB, Bloodspawn, symphony of blades, sanctuary, ebon, worm cult, hircines, gossamer, get minor toughness, and transmutation please? I was under the impression that I can only run a total of 14 different armor/weapons, not 54.

Daffen · November 2020

A coordinated team of 24 people who knows exactly what to do is going to win against 24 random people that dont know what they are doing.

Tiphis · November 2020

Daffen wrote: »

A coordinated team of 24 people who knows exactly what to do is going to win against 24 random people that dont know what they are doing.

I don't disagree and that's how it should be. The issue is that it has nothing to do with knowing what they are doing. A coordinated group of 24 who don't know what they're doing will win against a group of 24 random people who do.

Would you be able to beat a twin version of yourself with the same build if they have 1400 more main stat regen and 1500 more main damage stat? I doubt it. Does that mean you don't know what you're doing?

SgtNuttzmeg · November 2020

Tiphis wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

You don't need to run in a ball group to get those buffs. Also you can do perfectly fine outside of a ball group without those buffs.

True you just need to run in a coordinated group of people who coordinate sets, abilities, heals, stay close toge- wait a minute.

I don't disagree that you can do perfectly fine outside of ball group so long as you don't ever fight one. If everybody doesn't group then you are exactly right.

Although could you please tell me how I can run Powerful Assault, get minor sorcery, minor intellect, minor endurance, olorimes, BSW, BTB, Bloodspawn, symphony of blades, sanctuary, ebon, worm cult, hircines, gossamer, get minor toughness, and transmutation please? I was under the impression that I can only run a total of 14 different armor/weapons, not 54.

Run a larger group. Look all these buffs are equally accessible to anybody. People that don't take the time to create group with specific group comps shouldn't complain of their existence. Groups that take the time to develop comps and builds should be rewarded for doing so.

VaranisArano · November 2020

Don't worry, ZOS is trying to nerf ball groups and their ability to wear gear sets that synergize to make the group considerably more powerful! That's why we had all those weeks of Cyrodiil testing.

But that bad news is that the best way ZOS has found (at least, that they've said so far) in all their testing is global AOE cooldowns.

Just saying: be careful what you wish for.

Edit: I see that ZOS has updated their test results and decided that groups are limited to 12 and ally effects only impact the group. Which isn't going to do diddly squat to the 12-man ball groups, but okay, ZOS.

Tiphis · November 2020

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

Tiphis wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

You don't need to run in a ball group to get those buffs. Also you can do perfectly fine outside of a ball group without those buffs.

True you just need to run in a coordinated group of people who coordinate sets, abilities, heals, stay close toge- wait a minute.

I don't disagree that you can do perfectly fine outside of ball group so long as you don't ever fight one. If everybody doesn't group then you are exactly right.

Although could you please tell me how I can run Powerful Assault, get minor sorcery, minor intellect, minor endurance, olorimes, BSW, BTB, Bloodspawn, symphony of blades, sanctuary, ebon, worm cult, hircines, gossamer, get minor toughness, and transmutation please? I was under the impression that I can only run a total of 14 different armor/weapons, not 54.

Run a larger group. Look all these buffs are equally accessible to anybody. People that don't take the time to create group with specific group comps shouldn't complain of their existence. Groups that take the time to develop comps and builds should be rewarded for doing so.

Tiphis wrote: »

Good god just come out and tell us that you want everybody to be in a ball group and if you aren't you are playing the game wrong.

Exactly

wsmith97ub17_ESO · November 2020

Yeah op, listen to these guys. Cyrodiil is only for npc ball zergs who have tightly defined roles that boil down to one guy ordering his npcs to press their button...

Of course, any decent ball zerger knows the best, most required tactic.

That is to activate his npc button bots before the enemy. This causes lag for all other players on the localized grid. Run right over them since they cant break stuns or activate skills.

That is what we used to do in eve online.

Top skill npc ball zerg routine.

Theignson · November 2020

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yeah op, listen to these guys. Cyrodiil is only for npc ball zergs who have tightly defined roles that boil down to one guy ordering his npcs to press their button...

Of course, any decent ball zerger knows the best, most required tactic.

That is to activate his npc button bots before the enemy. This causes lag for all other players on the localized grid. Run right over them since they cant break stuns or activate skills.

That is what we used to do in eve online.

Top skill npc ball zerg routine.

This is correct. The ball groups lag stun their opponents, then cast stun/fear/snare en mass, then kill them with ulti dumps. The key first step is the lag stun. I have been a full 50m away from these balls and still gotten lag stunned. That means you can't fight them.

All they do is purge purge purge heal heal heal tun stun stun..until their ulti's are ready.

Proper ball groups should "never" lose to disorganized, ungrouped pugs with no discord, no group buffs, no lag stun. 24 pugs running around are no match for a 12 man ball group

Frankly I don't see how the ball groups dont get bored to death. At least in the old days you had Dracarys fighting VE or Dom Dom etc.

I would think a real ball group would stop farming pathetic pugs and try to fight other ball groups.

Ghostbane · November 2020

12 players in close proximity spamming abilities = lag
24 players in close proximity spamming abilities = pristine performance

#science

BaiterOfZergs · November 2020

Can see the frustration, no one likes ball groups. However they’ll always be around so everyone should just get accustomed to that.

Randoms and pugs won’t like it for obvious reasons but the good news is most people aren’t running around in ball groups or even good groups. I think in situations like this people overestimate how good the average player is. Personally I think it’ll just take some getting use to.

On another note: ball groups will get buffed even when everything else get nerfed or through indirect buffs. That’s been the nature of the game and how organization usually plays out.

Waffennacht · November 2020

BGs need the population increase.... Come on into BGs and leave those OW worries behind

Kordai · November 2020

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Can see the frustration, no one likes ball groups. However they’ll always be around so everyone should just get accustomed to that.

Randoms and pugs won’t like it for obvious reasons but the good news is most people aren’t running around in ball groups or even good groups. I think in situations like this people overestimate how good the average player is. Personally I think it’ll just take some getting use to.

On another note: ball groups will get buffed even when everything else get nerfed or through indirect buffs. That’s been the nature of the game and how organization usually plays out.

Yeah, I think some of the frustration is that they really only ever get buffed. Talk about power creep.

VaranisArano · November 2020

Kordai wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Can see the frustration, no one likes ball groups. However they’ll always be around so everyone should just get accustomed to that.

Randoms and pugs won’t like it for obvious reasons but the good news is most people aren’t running around in ball groups or even good groups. I think in situations like this people overestimate how good the average player is. Personally I think it’ll just take some getting use to.

On another note: ball groups will get buffed even when everything else get nerfed or through indirect buffs. That’s been the nature of the game and how organization usually plays out.

Yeah, I think some of the frustration is that they really only ever get buffed. Talk about power creep.

Well, they'll always get buffed simply because it's very hard to develop something that a solo or small scale player can use well that a larher coordinated group can't use better.

There was someone asking for defile to be buffed so they could kill tanks a while back, and I was like, "ZOS won't do it because just imagine a ball group, now with buffed defile. We've done that. It's why ZOS nerfed defile."

OlumoGarbag · November 2020

So where exactly did they buff ballgroups?
They already implemented the first ballgroup nerf limiting the size to 12 People that already thins out alot of the trash ball guilds that can only play bc they have big numbers.

Now you are left with 8-12 man ballgroups:
Find their support / cleanse spammer tab target him and root spam him/chain him. And they will be very much vulnerable.

Also another usefull tip: If you see a Ballgroup DONT FOLLOW THEM. They wont follow you so just leave them alone

Wolfpaw · November 2020

Ball (8-12) = Poor performance
Zerg (13-24) = Slightly better performance due to less coordination of combat skills.

Whenever a organized ball group shows up performance drops significantly. It's the organized, & coordinated skill use aoe synchronization/spam of a 8-12m thats melting the server.

Joinovikova · November 2020

Daffen wrote: »

A coordinated team of 24 people who knows exactly what to do is going to win against 24 random people that dont know what they are doing.

Seems u never play in balll group

I played with one of the best ball group for several months.. Ball group mean ball group gear set up and skills around one AOE ability and then keep on stack and hit your one approved AOE ability as much as possible ( and do not forget ti refresh Proximity Detonation) than follow crown and make server total lagy but try to hit your aoe as much as possible hope fully u will desync server to have 2-3 skill also hit simulatary your AOE ultimate at once adn then see how people get lags desync and die .., if u meet another ball group same tactic and hope your ball group will have better calculation on server and win .. actualy is soo much boring to play .. but its super efective your ball group will take all castles with no problem u will zerg any solo players and u will not die and gain much more AP ..

nckg84 · November 2020

How about you just avoid them? The amount of zerglings ive seen throwing themselfs into the AP grinder is amazing. And they just keep doing it over and over.

Just walk away and don't give them the pleasure. But i don't see that happening with all the Rambo's running around.

Tiphis · November 2020

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

So where exactly did they buff ballgroups?
They already implemented the first ballgroup nerf limiting the size to 12 People that already thins out alot of the trash ball guilds that can only play bc they have big numbers.

Now you are left with 8-12 man ballgroups:
Find their support / cleanse spammer tab target him and root spam him/chain him. And they will be very much vulnerable.

Also another usefull tip: If you see a Ballgroup DONT FOLLOW THEM. They wont follow you so just leave them alone

This was posted prior to me seeing/them posting the new changes going into effect.

As far as buffing, I was referencing the changes to the minor/major buffs and the effects many of it have on the efficacy of ball groups. Olorime being buffed to give 430 sp damage makes it very good as a solo set now (on something like a magplar, magden, or anyone that goes combat prayer), let alone its prowess as a group set. Minor endurance/intellect are really only available to templars (repentance), magsorcs using empowering ward instead of hardened, and magdens. Or everybody in a ball group. As I stated initially with all group buffs, on my solo magdk build would be 1400 more mag regen.