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Ideas for improving players' adaptability to standard >combat< mechanics
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ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS has even stated they view their game as an RPG first and an MMO second.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!7 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »You would think that most player's would do some homework if interested in the game by visiting one of the gurus websites and never pug unless you are prepared for the potential circus.
The idea of having to do "homework" to play a videogame, is absurd.
If you want to "top the charts" and be a "pro"? Sure, go for it.
But not for the basic level of "play game! have fun!"
(that said, I don't run dungeons or do other group stuff. One, because I have no interest in interacting with toxic 'l33t d00d' puggers; and two, because I've no interest in 'doing homework' and wouldn't want to hold back any group I joined.)
TBF doing "homework" before playing became a reality about 10 years ago, when games became so complex that it was easier to provide a wiki alongside the game.
I can remember "doing homework" way before wiki. Prima was the go to back then 😉1 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Am I casual because I want Master Crafter, the fishing achievement or am GM of a guild who enjoys helping people SEE end game content they normally would not have?
As someone with a full-time job, do you enjoy spending 2-3 hours in a dungeon with the players who clearly can't complete it but you're kinda obliged to do it because that's what your guild does?
We never spend that long in a dungeon or trial so I'm not sure how low your opinion is of other players. I can't EVER remember one time it took us that long to do anything. Explaining and teaching as you go takes patience but yes we do enjoy spending time with our members.Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Am I casual because I want Master Crafter, the fishing achievement or am GM of a guild who enjoys helping people SEE end game content they normally would not have?
As someone with a full-time job, do you enjoy spending 2-3 hours in a dungeon with the players who clearly can't complete it but you're kinda obliged to do it because that's what your guild does?
Or just do what most sensible folk would do, attach a time limit, then make your excuses and leave should you run into a wall of frustration. You choose to stand around for 3 hours. No one makes you. Folk are free to leave when they want. Your time, your choice.
I hope you were treated better when you first began running more difficult content. I usually find the folk who were on the receiving end of insults etc during the early days of their time in game are usually the ones who turn into those very folk that they initially disliked too. It's a vicious cycle.
Well, our mileage does vary and my opinion is pretty low, but it is as valid as yours. I was running end-game and PvP events in a social guild and had my fair share of 2-3 hour long DLC dungeon runs. Once during a guild vDoM run I switched from a healer to a hybrid DD and just carried the other two max CP DDs, while doing 65% of the damage and sustaining the tank. These DDs played for 5 hours a day, every day. At some point me and my fellow event leaders stopped wasting our time on people who never showed any will to improve despite all explanations being in place.
I was never treated badly, nor did I ever treat others badly. I just stopped caring and carrying.
That's on the guild for not making it clear what their expectations were. It's right up there with trading guilds who kinda insinuate trading is free until you appear in their guild and it's anything but free. None of what you're saying is right or wrong. After all, your guild, your rules. If you expect a certain standard then that standard should be made clear. Not only is your time being wasted, but you're wasting those folks time too. So you're guilty of everything you're accusing others of. Comes across a hypocritical at best.
In a nutshell; You seem to take issue with folk wasting your time but have zero qualms about wasting other folks time by not making your expectations clear. If you're wanting 30k+ dps, then tell folk you want 30k+ dps. Folk aren't mind readers.
Communication is key.
I already said that when the requirements were introduced people lost interest and some left the guild. They were expecting free carry runs and when they were denied that, they decided to do nothing at all. Call me whatever you want, I have no time to spare for such players.0 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Am I casual because I want Master Crafter, the fishing achievement or am GM of a guild who enjoys helping people SEE end game content they normally would not have?
As someone with a full-time job, do you enjoy spending 2-3 hours in a dungeon with the players who clearly can't complete it but you're kinda obliged to do it because that's what your guild does?
We never spend that long in a dungeon or trial so I'm not sure how low your opinion is of other players. I can't EVER remember one time it took us that long to do anything. Explaining and teaching as you go takes patience but yes we do enjoy spending time with our members.Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Am I casual because I want Master Crafter, the fishing achievement or am GM of a guild who enjoys helping people SEE end game content they normally would not have?
As someone with a full-time job, do you enjoy spending 2-3 hours in a dungeon with the players who clearly can't complete it but you're kinda obliged to do it because that's what your guild does?
Or just do what most sensible folk would do, attach a time limit, then make your excuses and leave should you run into a wall of frustration. You choose to stand around for 3 hours. No one makes you. Folk are free to leave when they want. Your time, your choice.
I hope you were treated better when you first began running more difficult content. I usually find the folk who were on the receiving end of insults etc during the early days of their time in game are usually the ones who turn into those very folk that they initially disliked too. It's a vicious cycle.
Well, our mileage does vary and my opinion is pretty low, but it is as valid as yours. I was running end-game and PvP events in a social guild and had my fair share of 2-3 hour long DLC dungeon runs. Once during a guild vDoM run I switched from a healer to a hybrid DD and just carried the other two max CP DDs, while doing 65% of the damage and sustaining the tank. These DDs played for 5 hours a day, every day. At some point me and my fellow event leaders stopped wasting our time on people who never showed any will to improve despite all explanations being in place.
I was never treated badly, nor did I ever treat others badly. I just stopped caring and carrying.
That's on the guild for not making it clear what their expectations were. It's right up there with trading guilds who kinda insinuate trading is free until you appear in their guild and it's anything but free. None of what you're saying is right or wrong. After all, your guild, your rules. If you expect a certain standard then that standard should be made clear. Not only is your time being wasted, but you're wasting those folks time too. So you're guilty of everything you're accusing others of. Comes across a hypocritical at best.
In a nutshell; You seem to take issue with folk wasting your time but have zero qualms about wasting other folks time by not making your expectations clear. If you're wanting 30k+ dps, then tell folk you want 30k+ dps. Folk aren't mind readers.
Communication is key.
I already said that when the requirements were introduced people lost interest and some left the guild. They were expecting free carry runs and when they were denied that, they decided to do nothing at all. Call me whatever you want, I have no time to spare for such players.
I never called you anything. I was referring to your attitude being hypocritical or at least how it has been written down. I don't know you from Adam, so I'm not in a position to call you anything. It's not a personal attack on you, it's merely responding to what has been written down. If you've taken it as a personal attack, then I apologise as it was never intended as such. But there are flaws in your argument. Granted, you're filling in the gaps as you go, but I can only respond to what is there at the time of responding.5 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭On the note of attempting to progress, and losing guild members.
An older guild that I was an officer of. We wanted to move forward. So we set up a discord server with a Trial Sign Up channel.
That alone was enough to make a bunch of people quit the guild.
That is the level of some players ability to commit to the game. Simply asking them to help get organized was too much.
Then we toyed with testing out players ability to perform their role. DPS Parses, Tank challenges, Healer discussions. It should had been evident enough when many didn't want to join discord, but when we put others to task, there was a lot of push back about seeing their Parse results.
I've been in quite a few guilds which start out as "social guilds" who attempt to move forward and do some veteran trials, and i've seen 1 guild actually pull it off. The rest live in Normal Trials since the more active folks aren't ready, or willing to put in any additional effort.
This is on PS4 btw.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »On the note of attempting to progress, and losing guild members.
An older guild that I was an officer of. We wanted to move forward. So we set up a discord server with a Trial Sign Up channel.
That alone was enough to make a bunch of people quit the guild.
That is the level of some players ability to commit to the game. Simply asking them to help get organized was too much.
Then we toyed with testing out players ability to perform their role. DPS Parses, Tank challenges, Healer discussions. It should had been evident enough when many didn't want to join discord, but when we put others to task, there was a lot of push back about seeing their Parse results.
I've been in quite a few guilds which start out as "social guilds" who attempt to move forward and do some veteran trials, and i've seen 1 guild actually pull it off. The rest live in Normal Trials since the more active folks aren't ready, or willing to put in any additional effort.
This is on PS4 btw.
Parses can also be submitted in private in some guilds, where officers or raid leads assign the roles/ranks out--but there is a benefit to everyone knowing at what level members of the group/guild are as it provides route to learn and improve, creates conversation and camaraderie in "progression". Where it exists that people instead get bullied, or treated in any other way than the rest of the guild, that's not a place to sign up to, nor a true guild. Do people go for guilds with the expectation that everyone is going to be dps demi-gods and uber tank heroes? Sure, some may, but progression can also be growth and a group of people with a common goal. That's the whole point, I think, guilds are many, as are goals and individual expectations, the trick is to find what fits yours--and if a guild ceases to be that, never be afraid to step off and find one that is.
Edited by mairwen85 on November 9, 2020 5:09PM1 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kathandira wrote: »On the note of attempting to progress, and losing guild members.
An older guild that I was an officer of. We wanted to move forward. So we set up a discord server with a Trial Sign Up channel.
That alone was enough to make a bunch of people quit the guild.
That is the level of some players ability to commit to the game. Simply asking them to help get organized was too much.
Then we toyed with testing out players ability to perform their role. DPS Parses, Tank challenges, Healer discussions. It should had been evident enough when many didn't want to join discord, but when we put others to task, there was a lot of push back about seeing their Parse results.
I've been in quite a few guilds which start out as "social guilds" who attempt to move forward and do some veteran trials, and i've seen 1 guild actually pull it off. The rest live in Normal Trials since the more active folks aren't ready, or willing to put in any additional effort.
This is on PS4 btw.
I help run one of the largest and most active PS4 social guilds on the EU server and what you say is true. What we noticed as soon as anything vet was introduced toxicity seeped in. At first those charged with doing the vet content failed to notice it, but those of us who were detached from it saw a sudden change in our guild chat and it was nipped in the bud and since then we have never touched vet trials. Members are free to orginise their own vet stuff, but it's made clear that they have to be clear what they expect from those putting their hat into the ring. We've removed officers and previous GM's who didn't adhere to that requirement. We'd do it again. If someone uses our chat to advertise a trial, dungeon or anything, they're asked to prepare for the worse and anything above that is a bonus. We don't hide what we are and if members get kicked during those trials (unless the person who was kicked was trolling or rude), the person who advertised for spaces or the actual event in question is removed from the guild regardless of position within the guild.
If folk want vet content and end game content they're free to seek it out elsewhere, but we want our guild to remain a welcoming environment to both new and old players. No one forces folk to stay in any guild and if people don't like our standards, then they're free to leave. What we won't do is tell folk one thing in our guild finder message and they turn up and realise the goalposts have suddenly been shifted. So many guilds fail because they tell their members one thing when the reality is something else entirely. That's on the guild, not those "I can't be bothered" members.Edited by Prof_Bawbag on November 9, 2020 5:11PM4 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭@mairwen85 & @Prof_Bawbag
I agree with both of you. Setting expectations is paramount to running a guild. Next is clear communication reinforcing the pre-set expectations.
In the guild I helped manage, we were looking to give people the chance to try veteran trials, so we wanted to see where those who were interested were at performance wise. We did actually ask for their parses to be sent privately. Even at that though, they weren't comfortable providing the screenshots. We did our best to keep it private, and reassure them that there will be no criticism. In fact, we offered to provide them assistance in improving if they wanted some coaching. Even with that, some weren't interested as they were comfortable with their abilities and didn't see the value in spending time improving.
That is perfectly ok. Not everyone is interested in taking the next step and diving into more difficult content. No big deal there. As mentioned, this is the benefit of having 5 guild slots. There are many goals in the game, and many guilds to assist in those goals. I have my social guild, my veteran trials guild, and my trader guild. Those are the things I log on for, and have a home for each.
The thing that I find though is that from the guilds I've been in, most are far more casual rather than working on progression. Maybe this is seen more on console than on PC? I'd be interested in seeing the data between PC, PS4, and Xbox as to how many players engage in Veteran Trials (excluding AA, and HRC). I have a feeling PC would lead by a lot due to access to mods, and the PC player base in general being more interested in putting in research time than the typical console player.
PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Many people, I would even say "most" people, simply do not desire to invest the time and effort to improve their skills to succeed at harder content. You can label these people as "casuals", or anything you want, but there is no blame to put on them. They are free to play however they want. If you use choose to PUG content and end up frustrated, then that is on YOU, not them.
In the end it's just a game, and it's on each of us to play the way we enjoy...and that means putting in the effort to find and associate yourself with others who share the same approach to the game. Stigmatizing others as "casuals" who somehow disrupt your enjoyment, reeks of elitism. If you want to be an elitist, fine. Go play with others that think the same way. Your satisfaction with the game is totally on you. Imagining there is an issue with "too many 'casual' players" is just projecting your own inadequacy of creating a good gaming experience for yourself.4 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭People are getting so upset over the term "casual" bc almost everyone has their own definition.
The OP is obviously talking about those who have no interest in improving enough to play the hardest content, yet they want to do all the hardest content which requires actually improving yourself to a degree that's required to clear without being a dead weight carry.
And ZOS' solution to claw down the top and drag them up is not working but contributing to gutting the endgame population and making the experience for those who still run the hardest content pretty miserable.0 -
Rasoma✭✭✭I play ESO for around four hours a day but I would describe myself as a casual player.
Why?
Because I play for the exploration, the fun and I do not give a damn about so-called meta builds. I don’t and doubt I will ever do anything termed endgame as that simply is where all the toxicity of any MMO is concentrated.@Rasoma - member since January 8th 20147 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People are getting so upset over the term "casual" bc almost everyone has their own definition.
The OP is obviously talking about those who have no interest in improving enough to play the hardest content, yet they want to do all the hardest content which requires actually improving yourself to a degree that's required to clear without being a dead weight carry.
And ZOS' solution to claw down the top and drag them up is not working but contributing to gutting the endgame population and making the experience for those who still run the hardest content pretty miserable.
I don't think people are getting upset, more that people are expressing a distaste for a sweeping statement that unfortunately for OP seems to carry a degree of unintended toxicity. That's always going to ruffle feathers and I'm sure there are many ways to state the same without such connotations. One the hand, I kind of agree that you encounter players who are simply not ready (maybe never will be / aren't interested in being) to do more challenging content, but that doesn't require such all-encompassing labels, and at the same time, pugging is always a roll of the dice. This is why guilds exist, and why the game let's you build friends lists, so you can group with likeminded people to do the things you want to. IF you forgo those options, you can't really complain about the level of people you end up grouped with. You decided to roll the dice, got to go with the results. That's not to say that all pugs are awful, many occasions I've ended up in groups where we just clicked, and when that happens, its awesome. But you have equal chance of either outcome. Sure, it sucks to get stuck in content that you know can be cleared in a short time only to find yourself carrying the group and getting fudged for it because you have no support, and yes, that is frustrating--but, again, rolled those dice... expectations don't always match up to reality, that's just part of life.
Edited by mairwen85 on November 9, 2020 6:16PM2 -
amapola76✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »Snow_White wrote: »Casuals pay the bills.
Nah, casuals are the ones who log in for an hour a week to sightsee. Regular players who actually spend hours in the game are the ones buying crates.
It all depends on how you define casual. Most people would call me a casual, although I spend hours in the game, seven days a week, pay for a subscription and prepay for new chapters, buy crates, buy crowns, and participate in all events. I bought a second account for the kids and sometimes we play as a family.
I also have a job, family, and other interests in life. I enjoy playing the game itself, but spending hours online to research strategy is the last fracking thing I want to do. Hats off to those who find it enjoyable, but I don't, and as a responsible adult, I spend a pretty high percentage of my time as it is doing things that are necessary but not enjoyable. I'm not getting paid to play this game, I'm doing it for fun and relaxation.
So I'm perfectly happy to be called a "casual," but don't act like we're not the backbone of this game.5 -
[snip]
the game is aimed for casuals, ZOS likes the mentality 'everyone wins'
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on November 9, 2020 7:54PM1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »people, that are not putting in an effort and time to understand and learn (that is what CASUAL means to me anyways),Looks like we need to define what is "casual".
For example, I play every day, I have some semblance of builds on my characters, I enjoy figuring out mechanics, I can solo some group stuff and still I consider myself to be extremely casual. Because I have no real interest in hard modes, pushing my DPS, optimizing into unfun-ness or min-maxing my builds or any form of competitive play.Yes, you're a textbook casual. But there are less self-aware players who try the hardest content and simply reject any help that isn't a carry. And this is a problem, some people want shinies from dungeons but refuse to accept the limitations set by the game.
Bold added by me
Because I suspect that they are not "rejecting", they are un-self-aware enough that they just truly don't get that they are not pulling their own weight.
Isn't there a saying about "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still".
Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[snip]
the game is aimed for casuals, ZOS likes the mentality 'everyone wins'
[Edited to remove Baiting]
So ....?Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!0 -
wishlist14✭✭✭✭✭
✭You would think that most player's would do some homework if interested in the game by visiting one of the gurus websites and never pug unless you are prepared for the potential circus.
I agree with this as I remember googling just about everything when i started playing eso .....now we actually have even better guides created by our eso community. @Alcast HQ is amazing.....Alcast covers just about everything a beginner player needs to know about builds, rotations where to get gear etc etc....His knowledge base is endless. He even has an antiquities guide fir beginners to advanced. Alcast taught me how to play eso and become a better player and he taught me how to do proper rotations etc. I highly recomment him for all level players. Beginner, intermediatd and dndgame players.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Casual is one of those expressions like P2W (pay to win). They mean something different to every person who uses them so you might as well be speaking in tongues. People are going to have to come up with a definition and agree on it before conversations like this can go anywhere.3 -
wishlist14✭✭✭✭✭
✭Eso has been around for 6 plus yrs now...the feeling i get from being in lots of guilds and observing is that many players play other games aswell as eso so they dont just focus on mastering eso. This newer generation of players are playing on average 3 different games on a given day so they dont commit all their time to getting good in one particular game.
Also, eso has been around for a while now and its not easy to come in as a new player and catch up at the pace new players want...they wantbto be jumping straight into the vet trials...not all but many do. And with a lit of new players they dont always know what class they want to main at first so they get a bit frustrated. Also many see the huge champion points on vet players and feel theyll never get there.....but they dont realise cp stops to matter beyond 810 cp still takes time to get there.
I think there are definately more casual players for sure.0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People are going to have to come up with a definition and agree on it before conversations like this can go anywhere.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Casual Gamer
Casual Gamer
A person who plays games but aren't competitive. Usually they are just there to be social and have fun but if they end up losing in the game they wouldn't mind. They don't put in a lot of effort to try to win. They may or may not play long hours of games. A casual gamer doesn't place their gaming as a first priority.PCNA5 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm sorry I didn't read all of the comments, but has anyone defined "casual" yet? My gaming sessions usually run about 5 or 6 hours, 5-7 days a week.
I can solo some group content, dungeons world bosses and I've completed Nma which I found quite easy, have made it to stage 5 on vet but have very little interest in finishing.
That said, I love picking flowers, I'm sure my dps sucks and I have very little interest in sitting at a training dummy to improve it. My favorite builds are hybrids and I play more to themes than builds.
So is casual how you play, how much you play, the content you play or what? Totally confused everytime I see casuals are to blame about something when we put just as much time in our hobby but have totally different goals than how big can I inflate this number or how quickly can I kill someone/something.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »You would think that most player's would do some homework if interested in the game by visiting one of the gurus websites and never pug unless you are prepared for the potential circus.
The idea of having to do "homework" to play a videogame, is absurd.
If you want to "top the charts" and be a "pro"? Sure, go for it.
But not for the basic level of "play game! have fun!"
(that said, I don't run dungeons or do other group stuff. One, because I have no interest in interacting with toxic 'l33t d00d' puggers; and two, because I've no interest in 'doing homework' and wouldn't want to hold back any group I joined.)
TBF doing "homework" before playing became a reality about 10 years ago, when games became so complex that it was easier to provide a wiki alongside the game.
I can remember "doing homework" way before wiki. Prima was the go to back then 😉
I still have a full shelf of old Prima guides, for old times sakes. but at the same time, while little booklets of how to use the controls and stuff that came with old games - were pretty necessary as the game designers haven't mastered an art of in game tutorials just yet - those prima guides were NOT a requirement. they were a nice extra if you wanted to get more out of the game without having to figure it out yourself.
and the thing is... I don't mind a little homework. I always enjoyed research. "gitting gud" in this game though goes far FAR beyond a little homework.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
Is Urban Dictionary a reliable and definitive source for such information?1 -
preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ugh ...
Yeah, we get it. You're good. Beginners are bad. You're good.
Got it.
My word, the thing you can read .. -_-3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Now one guild I'm in Alkit legion has 3 trial levels, 1) normal's cp 160, have relevant gear especially healers and tanks.kathandira wrote: »On the note of attempting to progress, and losing guild members.
An older guild that I was an officer of. We wanted to move forward. So we set up a discord server with a Trial Sign Up channel.
That alone was enough to make a bunch of people quit the guild.
That is the level of some players ability to commit to the game. Simply asking them to help get organized was too much.
Then we toyed with testing out players ability to perform their role. DPS Parses, Tank challenges, Healer discussions. It should had been evident enough when many didn't want to join discord, but when we put others to task, there was a lot of push back about seeing their Parse results.
I've been in quite a few guilds which start out as "social guilds" who attempt to move forward and do some veteran trials, and i've seen 1 guild actually pull it off. The rest live in Normal Trials since the more active folks aren't ready, or willing to put in any additional effort.
This is on PS4 btw.
Parses can also be submitted in private in some guilds, where officers or raid leads assign the roles/ranks out--but there is a benefit to everyone knowing at what level members of the group/guild are as it provides route to learn and improve, creates conversation and camaraderie in "progression". Where it exists that people instead get bullied, or treated in any other way than the rest of the guild, that's not a place to sign up to, nor a true guild. Do people go for guilds with the expectation that everyone is going to be dps demi-gods and uber tank heroes? Sure, some may, but progression can also be growth and a group of people with a common goal. That's the whole point, I think, guilds are many, as are goals and individual expectations, the trick is to find what fits yours--and if a guild ceases to be that, never be afraid to step off and find one that is.
2) base vet, recommended min 25 k dps, healer need olrime or spc, tanks need ebon, recommended other sets.
3) advanced vet 38 k dps tested. healer and tanks need multiple gear sets.
for 2 you need solid normal trial experience. for 3 an solid vet trial experience. I assume 3) is 2) guild runs.
I'm in 2)
Two other guilds has trial groups I'm not in but one is my primary trading guild second is my PvP guild.
No none of them are aiming for godslayer but trials are well alive.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »People are going to have to come up with a definition and agree on it before conversations like this can go anywhere.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Casual Gamer
Casual Gamer
A person who plays games but aren't competitive. Usually they are just there to be social and have fun but if they end up losing in the game they wouldn't mind. They don't put in a lot of effort to try to win. They may or may not play long hours of games. A casual gamer doesn't place their gaming as a first priority.
"They don't put in a lot of effort to try and win"
I would take issue with that part of the definition because I know a lot of casual players who do put in quite a bit of effort to make their characters perform. So that feeds into the false narrative that casual players aren't willing to learn or work to get good gear etc.
The rest of the definition looks ok to me though. But as I said, everyone has their own ideas about what it means to be a "casual" player. It's one of those amorphous terms that don't really mean anything.Edited by Jeremy on November 9, 2020 9:30PM0
