The Mythic Grind - There has to be a better way

Firstmep · November 2020

I know for a fact that i am not alone in thinking that the grind for mythic leads, well in 1 word: Tedious.

This was very apparent during Greymoor launch, and its every bit as apparent now.

Let me use an example:

Coldrock Diggings boss in Alikr, Beginer Joe finds this delve, walks and fights his way to the boss room, gloriously charges into battle... Just to see 10-15 max lvl players 1 shot the boss with aoe spam before Joe has a chance to even get in range of it. I am sure this is not fun for Joe, its sure as hell not fun for the 15 max lvl players camping there potentially for hours, hoping they can pump out enough damage so they get loot (this boss has 60k hp btw, so good luck, my "group" actually agreed to only use heavy attack spam on the boss spawn so more ppl can loot).

Or waiting in a conga line at the table in Nighthollow Keep( i actually came back at 2 am in the morning to avoid this exact issue)

Or having to camp 10k hp Skeevers and contend with all the other players also doing the same in Bad Mans Hallows, and the getting frustrated when someone gets to said mobs before you with spamming acid spray.

Or having so many ppl camp the world boss in Wrothgar that my game crashed 6 times from all the aoe spam, and then when i was finally able to actually fight the boss it dies before i can finish a single channel of Biting Jabs.

And this is just 1 item, dont even get me started with the 68 run "fun time" i had while farming for the Snow Treaders lead in Direfrost Keep.

This is all just tedious, and cant be good for the health of the game.

These grinds are nothing more than timewasters, and frankly i dont play videogames to have another job. Dont get me wrong i dont mind putting in the work to get these powerful mythic items, but to put it simply, there has to be a better way.

Heres the thing: When im just out and about in the world doing crafting survey or clearing some delve or whatever, and i stumble upon a lead a i didnt know about, i think oh cool!

I actually have a house completely furnished with just antiquites items. I think when this happens, the system works as intended, however when it comes to mythic items, most people will just go a particular website, look where they need to go and grind. And who can blame them, doing Vateshran hollow with and without the new ring is like night and day.

Also, i remember when the whole system was announced, we were told that it was supposed to teach us more about the lore of specific region.

How is spamming aoes on top of a delve bosses corpse teaching me about lore?

Here is a better idea: For mythic items specifically, how about we can go the Antiquarians Circle to pick up a starter quest for each, which then takes on a small hunt around to the regions where the leads are, maybe it tells us to go kill this boss, he might have a clue as to where this mythic fragment is, and when you go fight said boss you get lead 100%.

Or just have us run around reading lore books and doing puzzles and the such, like you know an ACTUAL treasure hunt.

The current lead grind for mythics just seems like lazy design, and frankly not fun.

Im sure theres going to be some Neckbeard down below telling me that MMOs are supposed to be grindy, well sir not every aspect has to be.

They couldve designed a system where it still takes time to get said mythics but without all the tedious, stupid and frustrating stuff i already mentioned above.

@ZOS_RichLambert i hope you read this post, i know for a fact that a lot people aggree with me on this one.

Grandchamp1989 · November 2020

I agree it's too random and tedious.

Firstmep · November 2020

I just want to reiterate, that its not the time consuming aspect of the mythic grind i have the issue with, its the monotone, tedious grind, and frankly in some places like delves, that arent designed for a larger number of players, its outright breaking the game.

Sephyr · November 2020

I'd also like to mention that when going to refarm the mythic in Nighthollow Keep, it's bugged where you can't even see or pick it up again after completing the ring a first time - when it's clearly up and ready for OTHERS to. Why would you refarm the Mythic? Because of the codex entries. You can't get that by reconstructing the ring. So not only is the grind tedious, hard, and quite frankly way too populated - I had to wait until super off peak hours to even gather the video evidence needed to report the bug in the thread I linked because some troll in Bangkorai called me a liar. Why on Nirn would I even lie about such a thing?

How is this relevant to the thread? Like you, I'm about that lore. I'm already fighting with other players competing with chests, competing to fight underpopulated mobs in an otherwise forgettable public dungeon, and even was there spamming AoE trying to get credit on the delve boss AND the world bosses in Wrothgar - all of which has NOTHING to do with the actual lore. However I can't even compete against players to get the lead for something I can't even see and they can - that feels like the only one that matches the best WITH the lore (and that's not even all that much). It feels like how they've incorporated the majority of the leads just doesn't really make you explore the area and again seems a rather half-attempt at making old content relevant again when most are just going to farm it once and be on their way - which is exactly how bugs like this went unnoticed. It's like consistency doesn't matter.

Firstmep · November 2020

Sephyr wrote: »

I'd also like to mention that when going to refarm the mythic in Nighthollow Keep, it's bugged where you can't even see or pick it up again when it's clearly up and ready for OTHERS to. Why would you refarm the Mythic? Because of the codex entries. You can't get that by reconstructing the ring. So not only is the grind tedious, hard, and quite frankly way too populated - I had to wait until super off peak hours to even gather the evidence needed to report the bug in the thread I linked.

How is this relevant to the thread? Like you, I'm about that lore. I'm already fighting with other players competing with chests, competing to fight underpopulated mobs in an otherwise forgettable public dungeon, and even was there spamming AoE trying to get credit on the delve boss AND the world bosses in Wrothgar - all of which has NOTHING to do with the actual lore. However I can't even compete against players to get the lead for something I can't even see and they can - that feels like the only one that matches the best WITH the lore (and that's not even all that much). It feels like how they've incorporated the majority of the leads just doesn't really make you explore the area and again seems a rather half-attempt at making old content relevant again when most are just going to farm it once and be on their way - which is exactly how bugs like this went unnoticed. It's like consistency doesn't matter.

You summed it up nicely.

It doesn't feelike a treasure hunt, and with all the above mentioned examples it's even worse than regular item grinds in dungeons for example.

bmnoble · November 2020

I can only speak for the ring of the pale order lead got no interest in the new necklace.

Too much bottle necking of the leads they should have had more sources to get each lead to spread players out more, instead of large groups having to wait for one thing to get their lead.

The delve lead should have been all the delves in the zone not just one. The lead on the table should have had a much shorter cool down or just permanently be available to interact with since it requires no RNG.

They should have used a different public dungeon, I got my hopes up thinking I had the lead but instead I got a gold lead for the wild hunt ring, you have all those different public dungeons in the game no need for the leads to be doubling up.

The world boss lead, I feel sorry for players that come late, when the groups dry up, those are not easily solo-able, should have added the lead dropping from delve bosses like they did for one of the other mythic leads in Murkmire.

The chest lead, pain one was finding a chest, while everyone else was also doing the same, been a long time since I have seen that zone that full, pain two was whether or no RNG jesus was on my side.

Most of the problems could be easily solved if they added multiple ways to get each lead, you still have to compete with the games RNG to get the lead but at least it would spread people out more.

Sephyr · November 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

I'd also like to mention that when going to refarm the mythic in Nighthollow Keep, it's bugged where you can't even see or pick it up again when it's clearly up and ready for OTHERS to. Why would you refarm the Mythic? Because of the codex entries. You can't get that by reconstructing the ring. So not only is the grind tedious, hard, and quite frankly way too populated - I had to wait until super off peak hours to even gather the evidence needed to report the bug in the thread I linked.

How is this relevant to the thread? Like you, I'm about that lore. I'm already fighting with other players competing with chests, competing to fight underpopulated mobs in an otherwise forgettable public dungeon, and even was there spamming AoE trying to get credit on the delve boss AND the world bosses in Wrothgar - all of which has NOTHING to do with the actual lore. However I can't even compete against players to get the lead for something I can't even see and they can - that feels like the only one that matches the best WITH the lore (and that's not even all that much). It feels like how they've incorporated the majority of the leads just doesn't really make you explore the area and again seems a rather half-attempt at making old content relevant again when most are just going to farm it once and be on their way - which is exactly how bugs like this went unnoticed. It's like consistency doesn't matter.

You summed it up nicely.

It doesn't feelike a treasure hunt, and with all the above mentioned examples it's even worse than regular item grinds in dungeons for example.

It's the worst Mythic I've ever had to farm. There was so much stress involved and then finding out I can't even farm it a second time for the actual lore behind the ring was the most disappointing thing I've seen in the system. Hours wasted: ~10 hours trying to farm it a second time. That was 10 hours I could've used doing something more productive than getting bashed because I got to a chest before someone as well as being called a liar because I just happened to discover the bug, bashed because I ruined someone's grind rotation, bashed because I got the lead from the boss in the delve as well as being scoffed at with the lead in Wrothgar because I was lucky and got enough DPS in to get credit. I kept checking the Keep through all of that to see if it showed back up and nada.

I thought these activities were supposed to bring people together and all I see is seething salt potential in every instance of the leads.

Dusk_Coven · November 2020

Have you considered that the "grind" is intended? To get existing and new players to rehash old content over and over and therefore make it "relevant".
Once people are sick of the current lineup of mythics and other antiquities, they'll just add new ones and you get to do it all over again all over Tamriel.

[snip]

[edited for bashing]

adilazimdegilx · November 2020

There wont be 10-15 players in those places in about 1 to 2 weeks. It is just the crowdedness of patch dropping day. Sure, it can be handled better in a million different ways. But it's never that big of deal for me. Just lay down 2 ground AOE under spawn location and watch something else on your second screen or on your phone while keep refreshing your aoes. Since you can hit almost everthing before it actually spawns on your screen you should be ok.

Firstmep · November 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Have you considered that the "grind" is intended? To get existing and new players to rehash old content over and over and therefore make it "relevant".
Once people are sick of the current lineup of mythics and other antiquities, they'll just add new ones and you get to do it all over again all over Tamriel.

[snip]

I know why they made the grind what it is. [snip] and like you said ruins regular overland experience for everyone.

Problem is when doing these mythic grinds, for the most part you are not even interacting with the system(antiquities), just grinding old content at the expanse of other players often.

I mean pale order is probably the worst offender, with 2 leads coming from public loot(chest and the note), and 2 more come from low hp mobs that are easily 1 shot by experienced players.

They couldve made the system so that it doest ruin the overland content for everyone, but still has you going back to older zones, and you actually engage with the lore and the antiquities system while acquiring leads.

The current system is just bad, i dont care how people spin it.

[edited for bashing]

Firstmep · November 2020

adilazimdegilx wrote: »

There wont be 10-15 players in those places in about 1 to 2 weeks. It is just the crowdedness of patch dropping day. Sure, it can be handled better in a million different ways. But it's never that big of deal for me. Just lay down 2 ground AOE under spawn location and watch something else on your second screen or on your phone while keep refreshing your aoes. Since you can hit almost everthing before it actually spawns on your screen you should be ok.

I got the ring in about 2 hours, most it was farming bad mans hallow mobs.

Anyway that doesnt take away from the fact that this system is bad.

Aznarb · November 2020

Can we also include how long, and boring leveling antiquity are ? Especially on alt ? Uuuf, something need to be done about this too imho.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · November 2020

my only issue is having mythic piece locked in the imp city, everything else is ok

Radiance · November 2020

The RNG Grind is what keeps this game afloat. How many time have you run the exact same content for absolutely no reason in search of a single item only to get nothing? This is done by design to lengthen the amount of time it takes to do anything bc the longer things take, the longer your subscription. There is really, truly only so much content and I'd say that at least 3/4ths of all time spent in game is farming for something.

Raideen · November 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

Can we also include how long, and boring leveling antiquity are ? Especially on alt ? Uuuf, something need to be done about this too imho.

I have level 10 on one toon, level 9 on a second. I am dreading leveling it on my "main" (the 3rd toon to have it).

I wont have any zone purple leads left. Its gonna either be a green/blue/green/blue S L O W grind. OR farming yellow leads that take hours to get anyway.

Either way its backwards. Usually in MMO's it takes LESS time to grind stuff on alts after a main has completed it.

[snip]

[edited for conspiracy theory]

Nyladreas · November 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

I know for a fact that i am not alone in thinking that the grind for mythic leads, well in 1 word: Tedious.

This was very apparent during Greymoor launch, and its every bit as apparent now.

Let me use an example:

Coldrock Diggings boss in Alikr, Beginer Joe finds this delve, walks and fights his way to the boss room, gloriously charges into battle... Just to see 10-15 max lvl players 1 shot the boss with aoe spam before Joe has a chance to even get in range of it. I am sure this is not fun for Joe, its sure as hell not fun for the 15 max lvl players camping there potentially for hours, hoping they can pump out enough damage so they get loot (this boss has 60k hp btw, so good luck, my "group" actually agreed to only use heavy attack spam on the boss spawn so more ppl can loot).

Or waiting in a conga line at the table in Nighthollow Keep( i actually came back at 2 am in the morning to avoid this exact issue)

Or having to camp 10k hp Skeevers and contend with all the other players also doing the same in Bad Mans Hallows, and the getting frustrated when someone gets to said mobs before you with spamming acid spray.

Or having so many ppl camp the world boss in Wrothgar that my game crashed 6 times from all the aoe spam, and then when i was finally able to actually fight the boss it dies before i can finish a single channel of Biting Jabs.

And this is just 1 item, dont even get me started with the 68 run "fun time" i had while farming for the Snow Treaders lead in Direfrost Keep.

This is all just tedious, and cant be good for the health of the game.

These grinds are nothing more than timewasters, and frankly i dont play videogames to have another job. Dont get me wrong i dont mind putting in the work to get these powerful mythic items, but to put it simply, there has to be a better way.

Heres the thing: When im just out and about in the world doing crafting survey or clearing some delve or whatever, and i stumble upon a lead a i didnt know about, i think oh cool!

I actually have a house completely furnished with just antiquites items. I think when this happens, the system works as intended, however when it comes to mythic items, most people will just go a particular website, look where they need to go and grind. And who can blame them, doing Vateshran hollow with and without the new ring is like night and day.

Also, i remember when the whole system was announced, we were told that it was supposed to teach us more about the lore of specific region.

How is spamming aoes on top of a delve bosses corpse teaching me about lore?

Here is a better idea: For mythic items specifically, how about we can go the Antiquarians Circle to pick up a starter quest for each, which then takes on a small hunt around to the regions where the leads are, maybe it tells us to go kill this boss, he might have a clue as to where this mythic fragment is, and when you go fight said boss you get lead 100%.

Or just have us run around reading lore books and doing puzzles and the such, like you know an ACTUAL treasure hunt.

The current lead grind for mythics just seems like lazy design, and frankly not fun.

Im sure theres going to be some Neckbeard down below telling me that MMOs are supposed to be grindy, well sir not every aspect has to be.

They couldve designed a system where it still takes time to get said mythics but without all the tedious, stupid and frustrating stuff i already mentioned above.

@ZOS_RichLambert i hope you read this post, i know for a fact that a lot people aggree with me on this one.

I wouldn't exactly call it tedious lol. Annoying? Yes. Definitely. But...

I farmed both my 2nd Malacath Band and the New Ring of the Pale Order in no time yesterday. That's in a SINGLE day, and it barely took a couple hours!

Wanna know what's tedious? Grinding Psijic Skill Line, Grinding Undaunted AND OTHER GUILD SKILL LINES. Skill lines that you farm for hours and hours and really aren't fun AT ALL the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th etc. time you do them. And guess what, you need those skill lines more than mythics!

Can we focus resources on that instead, please?

Thoragaal · November 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

I know for a fact that i am not alone in thinking that the grind for mythic leads, well in 1 word: Tedious.

This was very apparent during Greymoor launch, and its every bit as apparent now.

Let me use an example:

Coldrock Diggings boss in Alikr, Beginer Joe finds this delve, walks and fights his way to the boss room, gloriously charges into battle... Just to see 10-15 max lvl players 1 shot the boss with aoe spam before Joe has a chance to even get in range of it. I am sure this is not fun for Joe, its sure as hell not fun for the 15 max lvl players camping there potentially for hours, hoping they can pump out enough damage so they get loot (this boss has 60k hp btw, so good luck, my "group" actually agreed to only use heavy attack spam on the boss spawn so more ppl can loot).

Or waiting in a conga line at the table in Nighthollow Keep( i actually came back at 2 am in the morning to avoid this exact issue)

Or having to camp 10k hp Skeevers and contend with all the other players also doing the same in Bad Mans Hallows, and the getting frustrated when someone gets to said mobs before you with spamming acid spray.

Or having so many ppl camp the world boss in Wrothgar that my game crashed 6 times from all the aoe spam, and then when i was finally able to actually fight the boss it dies before i can finish a single channel of Biting Jabs.

And this is just 1 item, dont even get me started with the 68 run "fun time" i had while farming for the Snow Treaders lead in Direfrost Keep.

This is all just tedious, and cant be good for the health of the game.

These grinds are nothing more than timewasters, and frankly i dont play videogames to have another job. Dont get me wrong i dont mind putting in the work to get these powerful mythic items, but to put it simply, there has to be a better way.

Heres the thing: When im just out and about in the world doing crafting survey or clearing some delve or whatever, and i stumble upon a lead a i didnt know about, i think oh cool!

I actually have a house completely furnished with just antiquites items. I think when this happens, the system works as intended, however when it comes to mythic items, most people will just go a particular website, look where they need to go and grind. And who can blame them, doing Vateshran hollow with and without the new ring is like night and day.

Also, i remember when the whole system was announced, we were told that it was supposed to teach us more about the lore of specific region.

How is spamming aoes on top of a delve bosses corpse teaching me about lore?

Here is a better idea: For mythic items specifically, how about we can go the Antiquarians Circle to pick up a starter quest for each, which then takes on a small hunt around to the regions where the leads are, maybe it tells us to go kill this boss, he might have a clue as to where this mythic fragment is, and when you go fight said boss you get lead 100%.

Or just have us run around reading lore books and doing puzzles and the such, like you know an ACTUAL treasure hunt.

The current lead grind for mythics just seems like lazy design, and frankly not fun.

Im sure theres going to be some Neckbeard down below telling me that MMOs are supposed to be grindy, well sir not every aspect has to be.

They couldve designed a system where it still takes time to get said mythics but without all the tedious, stupid and frustrating stuff i already mentioned above.

@ZOS_RichLambert i hope you read this post, i know for a fact that a lot people aggree with me on this one.

Everything makes sense from a "new player trying ESO for the first time" perspective.
It wasn't designed to be grinded, however, most people already playing the game has nothing else to do in order to advance their characters but to grind these mythics.
And I can't help but feel like this issue pops up everywhere, in every aspect of the game; ZOS puts so much emphasis to make the new player enjoy the content, that their newly introduced mechanics doesn't make any sense to their already existing player base.
I wonder how much this issue (along with all the other existing ones) has to do with the fact that they're trying to deliver new content every 3 months. I can't imagine there's much room to "hold back" on content only because it could be done better.

Sephyr · November 2020

Nyladreas wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

I know for a fact that i am not alone in thinking that the grind for mythic leads, well in 1 word: Tedious.

This was very apparent during Greymoor launch, and its every bit as apparent now.

Let me use an example:

Coldrock Diggings boss in Alikr, Beginer Joe finds this delve, walks and fights his way to the boss room, gloriously charges into battle... Just to see 10-15 max lvl players 1 shot the boss with aoe spam before Joe has a chance to even get in range of it. I am sure this is not fun for Joe, its sure as hell not fun for the 15 max lvl players camping there potentially for hours, hoping they can pump out enough damage so they get loot (this boss has 60k hp btw, so good luck, my "group" actually agreed to only use heavy attack spam on the boss spawn so more ppl can loot).

Or waiting in a conga line at the table in Nighthollow Keep( i actually came back at 2 am in the morning to avoid this exact issue)

Or having to camp 10k hp Skeevers and contend with all the other players also doing the same in Bad Mans Hallows, and the getting frustrated when someone gets to said mobs before you with spamming acid spray.

Or having so many ppl camp the world boss in Wrothgar that my game crashed 6 times from all the aoe spam, and then when i was finally able to actually fight the boss it dies before i can finish a single channel of Biting Jabs.

And this is just 1 item, dont even get me started with the 68 run "fun time" i had while farming for the Snow Treaders lead in Direfrost Keep.

This is all just tedious, and cant be good for the health of the game.

These grinds are nothing more than timewasters, and frankly i dont play videogames to have another job. Dont get me wrong i dont mind putting in the work to get these powerful mythic items, but to put it simply, there has to be a better way.

Heres the thing: When im just out and about in the world doing crafting survey or clearing some delve or whatever, and i stumble upon a lead a i didnt know about, i think oh cool!

I actually have a house completely furnished with just antiquites items. I think when this happens, the system works as intended, however when it comes to mythic items, most people will just go a particular website, look where they need to go and grind. And who can blame them, doing Vateshran hollow with and without the new ring is like night and day.

Also, i remember when the whole system was announced, we were told that it was supposed to teach us more about the lore of specific region.

How is spamming aoes on top of a delve bosses corpse teaching me about lore?

Here is a better idea: For mythic items specifically, how about we can go the Antiquarians Circle to pick up a starter quest for each, which then takes on a small hunt around to the regions where the leads are, maybe it tells us to go kill this boss, he might have a clue as to where this mythic fragment is, and when you go fight said boss you get lead 100%.

Or just have us run around reading lore books and doing puzzles and the such, like you know an ACTUAL treasure hunt.

The current lead grind for mythics just seems like lazy design, and frankly not fun.

Im sure theres going to be some Neckbeard down below telling me that MMOs are supposed to be grindy, well sir not every aspect has to be.

They couldve designed a system where it still takes time to get said mythics but without all the tedious, stupid and frustrating stuff i already mentioned above.

@ZOS_RichLambert i hope you read this post, i know for a fact that a lot people aggree with me on this one.

I wouldn't exactly call it tedious lol. Annoying? Yes. Definitely. But...

I farmed both my 2nd Malacath Band and the New Ring of the Pale Order in no time yesterday. That's in a SINGLE day, and it barely took a couple hours!

Wanna know what's tedious? Grinding Psijic Skill Line, Grinding Undaunted AND OTHER GUILD SKILL LINES. Skill lines that you farm for hours and hours and really aren't fun AT ALL the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th etc. time you do them. And guess what, you need those skill lines more than mythics!

Can we focus resources on that instead, please?

Try farming the new ring a second time.

You'll see how annoying it is when you can't even finish it the second time around for the codex entries. Trying to compete against other players along with that specific bug makes grinding the other skill lines actually, I don't know... Doable? Because I can actually progress in those a second, third, and even fourth time on multiple characters.

That specific lead? Can't even get it again on another character. So no, I'd say it's more tedious when it's something you can't even progress further.

Zabagad · November 2020

I'm 100% with OP.

There is one more point, which I would like to be different. I don't like that you can find the places for the parts on every ESO-side in the net.
Sure - without I wouldn't find the lead on the table forever.
To balance this, they could use RNG - which is not a good idea too

But there are for sure solutions for that.

Just one quick idea for one piece - it drops on dungeon bosses. But for every player on different ones. Thats random - that spread out the players - thats a big grind to find "your" boss. The second lead drops maybe on dolmen chests - but for every player on a different dolmen. And so on.
Then not everyone can just go to 5 places and get 5 leads and thats it.
And then we maybe can find on alcast (or other pages) that it drops on dolmen/dungeon - but not on which one.
Thats just an example - I'm sure there are much better solutions, but this is not my job.

Fact - now it's not fun at all.
Now everybody gets it within one day (to fast) and a lot of frustation (my char for example play without CP - wrothgar lead was not possible for me to make enough dmg and so I had to solo it in the early morning)

Marcus_Thracius · November 2020

You dont NEED to have mythic items to be competitive - if they make it easy to get , then it looses its value - [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Firstmep · November 2020

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

You dont NEED to have mythic items to be competitive - if they make it easy to get , then it looses its value - [snip]

I like you how you completely missed my point. [snip]

These mythics are not hard to get, but a lot of the leads come from spots that make you compete with other players for no reason whatsoever, and it ruins the overland experience, especially for newer players in the process.

[snip]

I was simply pointing out that camping trashmonsters in a dungeon, or low hp delve bosses, and competing with other players, is not a fun experience.

And regardless of what you may think, this is a VIDEO GAME, its supposed to be fun.

Mythics are not hard to get, theyre tedious, and un-fun to get.

Once again, this is a video game, doesnt have to be a chore.

They couldve implemented a system that wasnt about camping old content and ninja looting leads from other players.

But they didnt.

[edited for baiting]

Zabagad · November 2020

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

if they make it easy to get , then it looses its value - [snip]

They are easy to get - to easy! - but at the same time not fun at all.
(1min search where they are + depending on luck and DPS some time to grind at 5 spots)

There are for sure much better ways to increase the value.
There are for sure ways to get more fun while getting them.
There are for sure ways to increase the work if you want.

But then maybe not everybody gets it on the first day - it could be that some ppl dont like that...

ReckyZa · November 2020

Well I would not say easy to get when you're spend 4 hours in Bad Man's Hollow and still don't have the lead

Zabagad · November 2020

ReckyZa wrote: »

Well I would not say easy to get when you're spend 4 hours in Bad Man's Hollow and still don't have the lead

Thats just unlucky and "work" - but still easy.

Firstmep · November 2020

ReckyZa wrote: »

Well I would not say easy to get when you're spend 4 hours in Bad Man's Hollow and still don't have the lead

Thats rng for ya.

My main point is that it shouldnt be in a place like Dead Mans Hallows, where there are like 10 adds in the entire dungeon, and youll likely have to compete with others also farming.

And you also have new players coming in trying to actually do the dungeon.

Not a fun experience for anyone involved.

Its not about the difficulty of acquiring or the time it takes for these mythics, its the way we acquire them.

Sephyr · November 2020

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

You dont NEED to have mythic items to be competitive - if they make it easy to get , then it looses its value - [snip]

Okay, riddle me this, riddle me that...

How hard is it to spam AoE on a camped boss in a delve? Because I can tell you it's utterly not all that hard and is rather easy. You're just waiting on RNG at that point.

How hard is it to run circles in a public dungeon over and over for a lead when you're able to get some kills in? After all you only need to deal 3% of damage to it's overall health to get the mob credit (from my testing it doesn't work on world bosses).

Also on the subject of world bosses, how hard are they exactly nowadays? I can solo the Unfinished Dolmen as well as many of the others. They're not exactly hard either.

What about chests? It's not exactly hard to find them, especially with passives and harvest map (which does work for me) along with other mods that actually show chest location.

Oh and on the subject of leads (when they work), what about the one laying on the table? The only hard part about that is when you're in my position and can't get the lead again for a second ring because it doesn't show up (again, shameless bug plug thread here).

There's really no working for the lead, not to mention many of those for specifically Ring of the Pale Order leads - only one barely matches with the lore and that's because it's in what seems to be a vampiric keep itself. The one boss in Alik'r in the delve is a vampire boss that arguably is just... Not really convincing to me that she'd have the lead. The bosses in Wrothgar also don't make sense to have them. I could possibly see the lead in chests being lore friendly, but given that absolutely none of these really have an engaging or organic process of stumbling onto the leads are precisely why people are bored with it.

We're not wanting them handed to us. We want puzzles. We want them where you have to search for them. Rumors or books that lead to a 'lead' where repeats are rarely the same twice in a row. Leads behind puzzles that are random every time. If anything the leads aren't hard enough to make a player really think about the lore of not only the antiquity or mythic in question, but rarely even think or engage in that zone's story, it's lore, let alone the game's lore. It's nothing about "this or that generation". That just seems rather irrelevant to what the OP had in mind, let alone them wanting it 'easier'. It's just rather that the system is an inorganic method of throwing more inorganic lore at you. Because it's totally lore friendly for a 'lead' to show up on a Nirnroot in Coldharbour. How organic.

Khazek · November 2020

I've only gotten Malacath's band and Ring of the wild hunt but they weren't tedious to get at all.

Sure they can change things up a bit to make the grind more interesting, but I hope they won't make the content easier. 80% of the game is already way too easy.

Minnesinger · November 2020

Especially the Alikr boss seems too easy to kill that I had to stay alert to get damage done. I think someone has very twisted sense of humor and when I have the ring I can appreciate it. I spent something like 6 hours all together.

Hallothiel · November 2020

Confused.

@Sephyr You say you would prefer puzzles & not wanting leads handed to you, where you have to search for them, and yet you use an add-on to show where all the chests are? Is that not contradictory?

Play on console with no add-ons available & it is more like a treasure hunt! I just play the game, and if a lead drops then yay.

And why try & grind out the mythic items on the first day? They are not in anyway essential for the game & the first day will always always be full of idiots grinding it out so quickly - bet they are the type that then complain of nothing to do.

But I do like the OP’s suggestion of having to follow clues or puzzles to find some leads. That would be fun!

Firstmep · November 2020

Hallothiel wrote: »

Confused.

@Sephyr You say you would prefer puzzles & not wanting leads handed to you, where you have to search for them, and yet you use an add-on to show where all the chests are? Is that not contradictory?

Play on console with no add-ons available & it is more like a treasure hunt! I just play the game, and if a lead drops then yay.

And why try & grind out the mythic items on the first day? They are not in anyway essential for the game & the first day will always always be full of idiots grinding it out so quickly - bet they are the type that then complain of nothing to do.

But I do like the OP’s suggestion of having to follow clues or puzzles to find some leads. That would be fun!

I am mainly a pvp player, but i know most people wanted the ring as the new arena can be a bit hairy no some classes/specs without it.

Regardless, even if we didnt have first week issues, like competing for spawns etc., i think just grinding old content is just plain boring, and i dont really see how it fits into the antiquity system at all.

Just feel like they couldve done so much more with this system, i remember so many streamer cosplaying as Indiana Jones when Greymoor launched and then proceeded to spam green and blue antiquities in Arteum for hours.

This system just doesnt feel like a treasure hunt, and the lore references are just not there.

Sephyr · November 2020

Hallothiel wrote: »

Confused.

@Sephyr You say you would prefer puzzles & not wanting leads handed to you, where you have to search for them, and yet you use an add-on to show where all the chests are? Is that not contradictory?

Play on console with no add-ons available & it is more like a treasure hunt! I just play the game, and if a lead drops then yay.

And why try & grind out the mythic items on the first day? They are not in anyway essential for the game & the first day will always always be full of idiots grinding it out so quickly - bet they are the type that then complain of nothing to do.

But I do like the OP’s suggestion of having to follow clues or puzzles to find some leads. That would be fun!

It could be contradictary @Hallothiel if Zenimax didn't allow those things to be tracked and datamined. That's no excuse for complacency in what legitimately matters and actually detracts from the root of the issue - and that is that they're placing these leads behind these systems that are already easily tracked and hardly complex ("hard") at all - and if you further are confused, there's no real work involved already so why is the guy insinuating that we're wanting it to be easier. It may be hard to understand for many, but that's the point. Once a lead is found, their locations for the most part are static (IE Nirnroots and Coldharbour's furnishing lead). They're found either behind;

Chests/lootboxes
Certain nodes.
Backpacks.
Both bosses zone wide and specific, the latter being the most easy to track and obtain.
Placing them on tables.
Dolmens, Geysers, Dragons, and Harrowstorms.
Fishing (localized areas like Artaeum)
Public Dungeon mobs.
Group dungeons.
Trials.

Where exactly is the complexity in that? Because I sure as heck don't see any complexity in getting leads from any of those. So addons aren't really contradictory given that they're already fixed anyways and it takes nothing to use google for console. You'd have a point if, you know... It was actually random!

Edit: And why not grind out things the first day? If they put it out there, that's for people to get - if you don't want to, that's your prerogative. However given that this specific DLC was not really tested, nor really listened to when bugs were being reported (which is why the last lead wasn't found to be bugged because no one found the last lead on PTS), maybe I shouldn't play this game like other AAA titles.