What's a magden to do?

fred4 · October 2020

I remember when warden came out there seemed to be a clear way you were meant to build for PvP, which I first came across in a Blobsky video. Northern Storm gave you a magicka bonus for slotting it, you had the netch, you added Inner Light, Necropotence and you had a magicka-stacking build. This lent itself to front-barring Dampen, leaving room for Cliff Racer (or another spammable) and Deep Fissure as well as one other skill on the front bar.

As magden is a class I don't play a lot, my thinking hasn't really evolved much since that time. Up until fairly recently the mag-stacking and shielding philosophy seemed to hold up pretty well, even if build details changed from patch to patch. Currently, however, I find it's suffering. I put this down to shields having become gradually less effective, such as being affected by penetration and no longer suppressing crit, as well the healing reductions. Warden mobility is pretty terrible, but in the past you could tank it out and do damage on a mag-stacking build, because the shield was large and the ongoing heals from the likes of Living Trellis were decent.

I was told back in the day when warden came out that heavy armor was superior on magden. I am generally a light armor player. These days I've bumped into wardens running Winterborn and Icy Conjurer as well as high or highish health wardens that put out a lot of roots and snares. Are the latter mainly group utility builds?

I play mostly in CP. For my playstyle, which involves mostly soloing and pugging in IC, magden seems a terrible class. I have a policy of by an large not playing vampires, which removes that option from the table. It's for role-playing reasons.

A curious thing fixed my magplar. Ever since Pirate Skeleton got nerfed over a year ago, I was not particularly happy with it. I tried various tanky options involving sets like Pariah, Armor Master, Clever Alchemist (with Master's destro front bar), Cyrodiil's Light and so on. Nothing really worked well for me and neither did going full on aggressive. I eventually found the setup I'm running now, consisting of Eternal Vigor and Amber Plasm (yes: both), Sugar Skulls, Wild Hunt and 1x Skoria (for the pen). This works for me! The damage is only so so (3K unbuffed Sweeps tooltip), but it feels much more defensively sound than any of the tankier setups (which had less damage). 17K stamina and 1.35K stam regen plus RAT and Wild Hunt makes the difference for my playstyle.

I play stamina classes as well, so maybe that's what's causing this or it's the plain superiority of dodge rolling and blocking over magicka defenses. I actually run the stamina rune on top of that stamina sustain. Then there's the health regen from those sets and today's gold foods.

Putting this approach to work on magden feels lacklustre. I stuck with highish magicka (45K) by combining Eternal Vigor with Necropotence. I have speed from Wild Hunt and Bird of Prey. I still feel like something of a sitting duck. Stamsorc is wild. I love it! I love Streak and I have a gap closer. Stam DK might be slow (as a class), but it repositions, CCs and clinches fights with Take Flight. I love that! Even magplar has a way of getting around via Toppling Charge and that's also a reliable CC.

What has magden got? Magden plays the waiting game. It's the true "stay in your house" class, if ever there was one. A lacklustre speed skill - no snare removal if you want the Minor Berserk. No execute. No reliable CC. No gap closer. The problem with classes like that is that all they can rely on is tankiness and strong healing, which is kind of boring as well as having been eroded as of late.

Are there any better approaches for playing magden as an all round small-scale DD ... without vampire?

Fawn4287 · October 2020

Magden is probably the best CP magica class, try playing a magplar or a magcro if you want a lacklustre class.

Kartalin · October 2020

Here is the Magden setup I'm running in no-cp at the moment (when not bombing or healing in guild groups):

Stats shown are for the front bar, self-buffed with Blue Betty Netch (twice for minor toughness) and Ice Fortress. Torug's Pact, Winterborn, Malacath, and 1 Trainee active both bars. You could swap out the resto staff for an arena staff if you like.

This is a modified version of @UrbanMonk 's build that you can find here. I'm using all the same gear but because of guild obligations I could not change to Nord and adjusted some skills to better fit my playstyle.

Skills:
Flame staff bar: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Bird of Prey, Shimmering Shield, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting
Resto staff bar: Ice Fortress, Harness Magicka, Arctic Blast, Radiating Regeneration, Blue Betty, and Healing Thicket

You could use either morph of Sleet Storm instead of DBoS, and could replace Harness with RAT if you want. Also instead of Radiating Regen we could use Living Trellis.

Breton race, Mage mundus, Bewitched Sugar Skulls food, with magicka/immov pots. Tristat pots are also an option.

Offensive combo: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Dawnbreaker, and repeat Fissure/Force Shock if still alive, weaving LA throughout of course. Could also begin with a fully charged heavy if you have a little more distance to target. If out of range just spam Force shock, this will still be pretty strong with Torug's. Dawnbreaker on magicka may not be the best, but still pretty strong for us in no cp for burst. Winterborn will proc automatically on our first Force Shock if the Flame Clench doesn't proc it first b/c of frost enchant going off.

I'm still putting together some clips for this. Testing has slowed that problem down somewhat unfortunately.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

fred4 · October 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Magden is probably the best CP magica class, try playing a magplar or a magcro if you want a lacklustre class.

Hahahahaha. Sorc <cough>.

fred4 · October 2020

Kartalin wrote: »

Here is the Magden setup I'm running in no-cp at the moment (when not bombing or healing in guild groups):

Stats shown are for the front bar, self-buffed with Blue Betty Netch (twice for minor toughness) and Ice Fortress. Torug's Pact, Winterborn, Malacath, and 1 Trainee active both bars. You could swap out the resto staff for an arena staff if you like.

This is a modified version of @UrbanMonk 's build that you can find here. I'm using all the same gear but because of guild obligations I could not change to Nord and adjusted some skills to better fit my playstyle.

Skills:
Flame staff bar: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Bird of Prey, Shimmering Shield, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting
Resto staff bar: Ice Fortress, Harness Magicka, Arctic Blast, Radiating Regeneration, Blue Betty, and Healing Thicket

You could use either morph of Sleet Storm instead of DBoS, and could replace Harness with RAT if you want. Also instead of Radiating Regen we could use Living Trellis.

Breton race, Mage mundus, Bewitched Sugar Skulls food, with magicka/immov pots. Tristat pots are also an option.

Offensive combo: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Dawnbreaker, and repeat Fissure/Force Shock if still alive, weaving LA throughout of course. Could also begin with a fully charged heavy if you have a little more distance to target. If out of range just spam Force shock, this will still be pretty strong with Torug's. Dawnbreaker on magicka may not be the best, but still pretty strong for us in no cp for burst. Winterborn will proc automatically on our first Force Shock if the Flame Clench doesn't proc it first b/c of frost enchant going off.

I'm still putting together some clips for this. Testing has slowed that problem down somewhat unfortunately.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

Thanks for sharing, although I can't really see why that plays well. If you go Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, DB, then you've given away your CC before your burst. Still some interesting ideas, such as the sets and using DB. Thanks.

wheem_ESO · October 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Thanks for sharing, although I can't really see why that plays well. If you go Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, DB, then you've given away your CC before your burst. Still some interesting ideas, such as the sets and using DB. Thanks.

Keep in mind that CP-enabled PvP is very different from no-CP.

There are a variety of reasons that I've never liked CP-PvP, but Magicka Warden is currently pretty strong (at least when compared to some other Mag classes) in BGs. Run proc set(s) with high HP and Arctic Blast/Polar Wind, and you've got a fairly survivable build that still has actual damage output. And Dawnbreaker may very well become the go-to damage ultimate in general next week, since the Major Protection on Northern Storm/Permafrost will be getting nerfed quite heavily.

Waffennacht · October 2020

I run:
Balorgh
Malacath
Winterborn
Alchemist
Trainee

Fissure, BoP, Flies, trellis, force pulse

8% from BoP (atm) Flies 8%, 10% frost damage passive 6% animal passive 25% damage Malacath 8% staff buff

+65% on Winterborn Proc, which triggers immediately when you land pulse (meaning burst damage)

Add Fissure and I regularly 100 to 0 people in BGs

Theres a reason ive kept this one close to the chest during PTS

Hexquisite · October 2020

Magden DPS is awesome!!
I currently play a DPS magden as my main in CP, mostly smaller group play. I am consistently 1st or 2nd in DPS and has great burst, but I built around how a few dif groups play, which allowed me to theorycraft specifc to them. She is not tanky though 5L/2h.

Magdens are crazy diverse, you can do almost anything with them.

I also run a solo build, that has procs like Icy Conjurer & other procs that I change all the time, and I use it in BGs now and then. Before this current Proc Meta she did quite good. Now its a complete toss up, but admittedly with dbl AP I havent been doing BGs much.

My Magden also used to be a CC and Defile tank--using an Ice Staff combined with Warden's Ice skills. I am considering going back to this for next patch.

wheem_ESO · November 2020

Kartalin wrote: »

Here is the Magden setup I'm running in no-cp at the moment (when not bombing or healing in guild groups):

Stats shown are for the front bar, self-buffed with Blue Betty Netch (twice for minor toughness) and Ice Fortress. Torug's Pact, Winterborn, Malacath, and 1 Trainee active both bars. You could swap out the resto staff for an arena staff if you like.

This is a modified version of @UrbanMonk 's build that you can find here. I'm using all the same gear but because of guild obligations I could not change to Nord and adjusted some skills to better fit my playstyle.

Skills:
Flame staff bar: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Bird of Prey, Shimmering Shield, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting
Resto staff bar: Ice Fortress, Harness Magicka, Arctic Blast, Radiating Regeneration, Blue Betty, and Healing Thicket

You could use either morph of Sleet Storm instead of DBoS, and could replace Harness with RAT if you want. Also instead of Radiating Regen we could use Living Trellis.

Breton race, Mage mundus, Bewitched Sugar Skulls food, with magicka/immov pots. Tristat pots are also an option.

Offensive combo: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Dawnbreaker, and repeat Fissure/Force Shock if still alive, weaving LA throughout of course. Could also begin with a fully charged heavy if you have a little more distance to target. If out of range just spam Force shock, this will still be pretty strong with Torug's. Dawnbreaker on magicka may not be the best, but still pretty strong for us in no cp for burst. Winterborn will proc automatically on our first Force Shock if the Flame Clench doesn't proc it first b/c of frost enchant going off.

I'm still putting together some clips for this. Testing has slowed that problem down somewhat unfortunately.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

After running Maelstrom Arena an ungodly number of times, across multiple different characters on both Normal and Vet, I finally got a Winterborn Flame Staff (and it even has the Infused trait, yay). That allowed me to try a nearly identical setup that I'd been wanting to test out for a while on Magicka Necromancer; Torug's Pact, 1x Monster set or Trainee (I'm starting with Skoria), Malacath Ring, Winterborn on the front bar, and a flex-spot weapon on the back bar.

I haven't played all that much with it yet, partly due to ongoing internet problems making my connection incredibly unstable anywhere near primetime hours, but it doesn't seem that a Frost Enchant is actually capable of triggering Winterborn - the frost damage apparently has to come from an ability. That said, it honestly feels weird to have something approximating reliable burst damage on a Magicka Necromancer. My MMR is probably still really low after the reset and my internet issues, so I can't really say too much about how it'll perform over the long haul, but so far the killing power is actually pretty decent. It's no Stamina Warden, but then again, what is?

Waffennacht · November 2020

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Here is the Magden setup I'm running in no-cp at the moment (when not bombing or healing in guild groups):

Stats shown are for the front bar, self-buffed with Blue Betty Netch (twice for minor toughness) and Ice Fortress. Torug's Pact, Winterborn, Malacath, and 1 Trainee active both bars. You could swap out the resto staff for an arena staff if you like.

This is a modified version of @UrbanMonk 's build that you can find here. I'm using all the same gear but because of guild obligations I could not change to Nord and adjusted some skills to better fit my playstyle.

Skills:
Flame staff bar: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Bird of Prey, Shimmering Shield, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting
Resto staff bar: Ice Fortress, Harness Magicka, Arctic Blast, Radiating Regeneration, Blue Betty, and Healing Thicket

You could use either morph of Sleet Storm instead of DBoS, and could replace Harness with RAT if you want. Also instead of Radiating Regen we could use Living Trellis.

Breton race, Mage mundus, Bewitched Sugar Skulls food, with magicka/immov pots. Tristat pots are also an option.

Offensive combo: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Dawnbreaker, and repeat Fissure/Force Shock if still alive, weaving LA throughout of course. Could also begin with a fully charged heavy if you have a little more distance to target. If out of range just spam Force shock, this will still be pretty strong with Torug's. Dawnbreaker on magicka may not be the best, but still pretty strong for us in no cp for burst. Winterborn will proc automatically on our first Force Shock if the Flame Clench doesn't proc it first b/c of frost enchant going off.

I'm still putting together some clips for this. Testing has slowed that problem down somewhat unfortunately.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

After running Maelstrom Arena an ungodly number of times, across multiple different characters on both Normal and Vet, I finally got a Winterborn Flame Staff (and it even has the Infused trait, yay). That allowed me to try a nearly identical setup that I'd been wanting to test out for a while on Magicka Necromancer; Torug's Pact, 1x Monster set or Trainee (I'm starting with Skoria), Malacath Ring, Winterborn on the front bar, and a flex-spot weapon on the back bar.

I haven't played all that much with it yet, partly due to ongoing internet problems making my connection incredibly unstable anywhere near primetime hours, but it doesn't seem that a Frost Enchant is actually capable of triggering Winterborn - the frost damage apparently has to come from an ability. That said, it honestly feels weird to have something approximating reliable burst damage on a Magicka Necromancer. My MMR is probably still really low after the reset and my internet issues, so I can't really say too much about how it'll perform over the long haul, but so far the killing power is actually pretty decent. It's no Stamina Warden, but then again, what is?

I also tried aomething similar; however magden gets so much more damage outta winter born. Not a single passive will buff Winterborn via necro passive. You need a lightning staff to buff Winterborn as it's an AoE too.

Warden has minor berserk, animal passive, and the frost damage passive oh and minor vulnerability + breach.

Necro loses 25% damage or more vs warden using Winterborn.

The only really cool idea I had for mag necro was using Draugrkin's Grip because necros detonating syphon ticks at an extremely high rate.... And even then .... Meh

wheem_ESO · November 2020

Waffennacht wrote: »

I also tried aomething similar; however magden gets so much more damage outta winter born. Not a single passive will buff Winterborn via necro passive. You need a lightning staff to buff Winterborn as it's an AoE too.

Warden has minor berserk, animal passive, and the frost damage passive oh and minor vulnerability + breach.

Necro loses 25% damage or more vs warden using Winterborn.

The only really cool idea I had for mag necro was using Draugrkin's Grip because necros detonating syphon ticks at an extremely high rate.... And even then .... Meh

Magicka Necromancer has always been sort of like a gimpy Magicka Warden. But even without the extra modifiers on Winterborn's damage (and the Fire staff is kind of required on Magicka Necromancer IMO, since you need a viable CC that can be used offensively), it seems pretty decent so far. It's essentially the same situation as running a more DOT oriented build with Oblivion's Foe; a Warden can ultimately do better with the exact same build, but it's at least functional on a Necromancer.

Noctus · November 2020

Waffennacht wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Here is the Magden setup I'm running in no-cp at the moment (when not bombing or healing in guild groups):

Stats shown are for the front bar, self-buffed with Blue Betty Netch (twice for minor toughness) and Ice Fortress. Torug's Pact, Winterborn, Malacath, and 1 Trainee active both bars. You could swap out the resto staff for an arena staff if you like.

This is a modified version of @UrbanMonk 's build that you can find here. I'm using all the same gear but because of guild obligations I could not change to Nord and adjusted some skills to better fit my playstyle.

Skills:
Flame staff bar: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Bird of Prey, Shimmering Shield, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting
Resto staff bar: Ice Fortress, Harness Magicka, Arctic Blast, Radiating Regeneration, Blue Betty, and Healing Thicket

You could use either morph of Sleet Storm instead of DBoS, and could replace Harness with RAT if you want. Also instead of Radiating Regen we could use Living Trellis.

Breton race, Mage mundus, Bewitched Sugar Skulls food, with magicka/immov pots. Tristat pots are also an option.

Offensive combo: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Dawnbreaker, and repeat Fissure/Force Shock if still alive, weaving LA throughout of course. Could also begin with a fully charged heavy if you have a little more distance to target. If out of range just spam Force shock, this will still be pretty strong with Torug's. Dawnbreaker on magicka may not be the best, but still pretty strong for us in no cp for burst. Winterborn will proc automatically on our first Force Shock if the Flame Clench doesn't proc it first b/c of frost enchant going off.

I'm still putting together some clips for this. Testing has slowed that problem down somewhat unfortunately.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

After running Maelstrom Arena an ungodly number of times, across multiple different characters on both Normal and Vet, I finally got a Winterborn Flame Staff (and it even has the Infused trait, yay). That allowed me to try a nearly identical setup that I'd been wanting to test out for a while on Magicka Necromancer; Torug's Pact, 1x Monster set or Trainee (I'm starting with Skoria), Malacath Ring, Winterborn on the front bar, and a flex-spot weapon on the back bar.

I haven't played all that much with it yet, partly due to ongoing internet problems making my connection incredibly unstable anywhere near primetime hours, but it doesn't seem that a Frost Enchant is actually capable of triggering Winterborn - the frost damage apparently has to come from an ability. That said, it honestly feels weird to have something approximating reliable burst damage on a Magicka Necromancer. My MMR is probably still really low after the reset and my internet issues, so I can't really say too much about how it'll perform over the long haul, but so far the killing power is actually pretty decent. It's no Stamina Warden, but then again, what is?

I also tried aomething similar; however magden gets so much more damage outta winter born. Not a single passive will buff Winterborn via necro passive. You need a lightning staff to buff Winterborn as it's an AoE too.

Warden has minor berserk, animal passive, and the frost damage passive oh and minor vulnerability + breach.

Necro loses 25% damage or more vs warden using Winterborn.

The only really cool idea I had for mag necro was using Draugrkin's Grip because necros detonating syphon ticks at an extremely high rate.... And even then .... Meh

i confirm winterborn can be pretty good infact i saw quite a few ppl use it. i guess crimson is also pretty good.

katorga · November 2020

Waffennacht wrote: »

I run:
Balorgh
Malacath
Winterborn
Alchemist
Trainee

Fissure, BoP, Flies, trellis, force pulse

8% from BoP (atm) Flies 8%, 10% frost damage passive 6% animal passive 25% damage Malacath 8% staff buff

+65% on Winterborn Proc, which triggers immediately when you land pulse (meaning burst damage)

Add Fissure and I regularly 100 to 0 people in BGs

Theres a reason ive kept this one close to the chest during PTS

This. Warden, mag or stam, can get the highest % damage modifiers. Pairs perfectly with the current malacath/proc game.

Personally, I'd swap Alchemist on this for infused Torugs pact, for even more upfront burst. Note this build is also rocking up to 25K pen if everything lines up.

You also get 10% magic damage, your main skills are magic, so warmaiden/scathing mage produces some massive numbers too if you don't want to get the proc route.

Joinovikova · November 2020

fred4 wrote: »

I remember when warden came out there seemed to be a clear way you were meant to build for PvP, which I first came across in a Blobsky video. Northern Storm gave you a magicka bonus for slotting it, you had the netch, you added Inner Light, Necropotence and you had a magicka-stacking build. This lent itself to front-barring Dampen, leaving room for Cliff Racer (or another spammable) and Deep Fissure as well as one other skill on the front bar.

As magden is a class I don't play a lot, my thinking hasn't really evolved much since that time. Up until fairly recently the mag-stacking and shielding philosophy seemed to hold up pretty well, even if build details changed from patch to patch. Currently, however, I find it's suffering. I put this down to shields having become gradually less effective, such as being affected by penetration and no longer suppressing crit, as well the healing reductions. Warden mobility is pretty terrible, but in the past you could tank it out and do damage on a mag-stacking build, because the shield was large and the ongoing heals from the likes of Living Trellis were decent.

I was told back in the day when warden came out that heavy armor was superior on magden. I am generally a light armor player. These days I've bumped into wardens running Winterborn and Icy Conjurer as well as high or highish health wardens that put out a lot of roots and snares. Are the latter mainly group utility builds?

I play mostly in CP. For my playstyle, which involves mostly soloing and pugging in IC, magden seems a terrible class. I have a policy of by an large not playing vampires, which removes that option from the table. It's for role-playing reasons.

A curious thing fixed my magplar. Ever since Pirate Skeleton got nerfed over a year ago, I was not particularly happy with it. I tried various tanky options involving sets like Pariah, Armor Master, Clever Alchemist (with Master's destro front bar), Cyrodiil's Light and so on. Nothing really worked well for me and neither did going full on aggressive. I eventually found the setup I'm running now, consisting of Eternal Vigor and Amber Plasm (yes: both), Sugar Skulls, Wild Hunt and 1x Skoria (for the pen). This works for me! The damage is only so so (3K unbuffed Sweeps tooltip), but it feels much more defensively sound than any of the tankier setups (which had less damage). 17K stamina and 1.35K stam regen plus RAT and Wild Hunt makes the difference for my playstyle.

I play stamina classes as well, so maybe that's what's causing this or it's the plain superiority of dodge rolling and blocking over magicka defenses. I actually run the stamina rune on top of that stamina sustain. Then there's the health regen from those sets and today's gold foods.

Putting this approach to work on magden feels lacklustre. I stuck with highish magicka (45K) by combining Eternal Vigor with Necropotence. I have speed from Wild Hunt and Bird of Prey. I still feel like something of a sitting duck. Stamsorc is wild. I love it! I love Streak and I have a gap closer. Stam DK might be slow (as a class), but it repositions, CCs and clinches fights with Take Flight. I love that! Even magplar has a way of getting around via Toppling Charge and that's also a reliable CC.

What has magden got? Magden plays the waiting game. It's the true "stay in your house" class, if ever there was one. A lacklustre speed skill - no snare removal if you want the Minor Berserk. No execute. No reliable CC. No gap closer. The problem with classes like that is that all they can rely on is tankiness and strong healing, which is kind of boring as well as having been eroded as of late.

Are there any better approaches for playing magden as an all round small-scale DD ... without vampire?

.. magden is shining star of mag class with mag nb. u can succesfully use current proc meta syrvana zaan + Perfected Wrath of Elements 44k healt pool to have masiive heal ..

Waffennacht · November 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I remember when warden came out there seemed to be a clear way you were meant to build for PvP, which I first came across in a Blobsky video. Northern Storm gave you a magicka bonus for slotting it, you had the netch, you added Inner Light, Necropotence and you had a magicka-stacking build. This lent itself to front-barring Dampen, leaving room for Cliff Racer (or another spammable) and Deep Fissure as well as one other skill on the front bar.

As magden is a class I don't play a lot, my thinking hasn't really evolved much since that time. Up until fairly recently the mag-stacking and shielding philosophy seemed to hold up pretty well, even if build details changed from patch to patch. Currently, however, I find it's suffering. I put this down to shields having become gradually less effective, such as being affected by penetration and no longer suppressing crit, as well the healing reductions. Warden mobility is pretty terrible, but in the past you could tank it out and do damage on a mag-stacking build, because the shield was large and the ongoing heals from the likes of Living Trellis were decent.

I was told back in the day when warden came out that heavy armor was superior on magden. I am generally a light armor player. These days I've bumped into wardens running Winterborn and Icy Conjurer as well as high or highish health wardens that put out a lot of roots and snares. Are the latter mainly group utility builds?

I play mostly in CP. For my playstyle, which involves mostly soloing and pugging in IC, magden seems a terrible class. I have a policy of by an large not playing vampires, which removes that option from the table. It's for role-playing reasons.

A curious thing fixed my magplar. Ever since Pirate Skeleton got nerfed over a year ago, I was not particularly happy with it. I tried various tanky options involving sets like Pariah, Armor Master, Clever Alchemist (with Master's destro front bar), Cyrodiil's Light and so on. Nothing really worked well for me and neither did going full on aggressive. I eventually found the setup I'm running now, consisting of Eternal Vigor and Amber Plasm (yes: both), Sugar Skulls, Wild Hunt and 1x Skoria (for the pen). This works for me! The damage is only so so (3K unbuffed Sweeps tooltip), but it feels much more defensively sound than any of the tankier setups (which had less damage). 17K stamina and 1.35K stam regen plus RAT and Wild Hunt makes the difference for my playstyle.

I play stamina classes as well, so maybe that's what's causing this or it's the plain superiority of dodge rolling and blocking over magicka defenses. I actually run the stamina rune on top of that stamina sustain. Then there's the health regen from those sets and today's gold foods.

Putting this approach to work on magden feels lacklustre. I stuck with highish magicka (45K) by combining Eternal Vigor with Necropotence. I have speed from Wild Hunt and Bird of Prey. I still feel like something of a sitting duck. Stamsorc is wild. I love it! I love Streak and I have a gap closer. Stam DK might be slow (as a class), but it repositions, CCs and clinches fights with Take Flight. I love that! Even magplar has a way of getting around via Toppling Charge and that's also a reliable CC.

What has magden got? Magden plays the waiting game. It's the true "stay in your house" class, if ever there was one. A lacklustre speed skill - no snare removal if you want the Minor Berserk. No execute. No reliable CC. No gap closer. The problem with classes like that is that all they can rely on is tankiness and strong healing, which is kind of boring as well as having been eroded as of late.

Are there any better approaches for playing magden as an all round small-scale DD ... without vampire?

.. magden is shining star of mag class with mag nb. u can succesfully use current proc meta syrvana zaan + Perfected Wrath of Elements 44k healt pool to have masiive heal ..

Thats a health build. Warden, Sorcerer, and Necro can all rock those, but they're all health builds.

Magden had a much smaller health pool and does burst.

Health builds use DoT Procs (destroy and zaan) + proc burst (Doyle, 2h, rebuke)

Kartalin · November 2020

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Here is the Magden setup I'm running in no-cp at the moment (when not bombing or healing in guild groups):

Stats shown are for the front bar, self-buffed with Blue Betty Netch (twice for minor toughness) and Ice Fortress. Torug's Pact, Winterborn, Malacath, and 1 Trainee active both bars. You could swap out the resto staff for an arena staff if you like.

This is a modified version of @UrbanMonk 's build that you can find here. I'm using all the same gear but because of guild obligations I could not change to Nord and adjusted some skills to better fit my playstyle.

Skills:
Flame staff bar: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Bird of Prey, Shimmering Shield, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting
Resto staff bar: Ice Fortress, Harness Magicka, Arctic Blast, Radiating Regeneration, Blue Betty, and Healing Thicket

You could use either morph of Sleet Storm instead of DBoS, and could replace Harness with RAT if you want. Also instead of Radiating Regen we could use Living Trellis.

Breton race, Mage mundus, Bewitched Sugar Skulls food, with magicka/immov pots. Tristat pots are also an option.

Offensive combo: Deep Fissure, Flame Clench, Force Shock, Dawnbreaker, and repeat Fissure/Force Shock if still alive, weaving LA throughout of course. Could also begin with a fully charged heavy if you have a little more distance to target. If out of range just spam Force shock, this will still be pretty strong with Torug's. Dawnbreaker on magicka may not be the best, but still pretty strong for us in no cp for burst. Winterborn will proc automatically on our first Force Shock if the Flame Clench doesn't proc it first b/c of frost enchant going off.

I'm still putting together some clips for this. Testing has slowed that problem down somewhat unfortunately.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

After running Maelstrom Arena an ungodly number of times, across multiple different characters on both Normal and Vet, I finally got a Winterborn Flame Staff (and it even has the Infused trait, yay). That allowed me to try a nearly identical setup that I'd been wanting to test out for a while on Magicka Necromancer; Torug's Pact, 1x Monster set or Trainee (I'm starting with Skoria), Malacath Ring, Winterborn on the front bar, and a flex-spot weapon on the back bar.

Very nice, I don't have nearly the patience for PVE lol. Yeah having that winterborn staff opens up your back bar for an arena weapon or any 2 piece bonus you want. Willpower, Potentates, etc. The original build that inspired mine was using a BRP resto I believe.

wheem_ESO · November 2020

Kartalin wrote: »

Very nice, I don't have nearly the patience for PVE lol. Yeah having that winterborn staff opens up your back bar for an arena weapon or any 2 piece bonus you want. Willpower, Potentates, etc. The original build that inspired mine was using a BRP resto I believe.

Yea, I really don't like PvE at all, and running Maelstrom that much was driving me crazy. My internet issues allowed me to justify running it during off-hours, though, since lag was still too bad for PvP even then. There were numerous deaths in normal mode Maelstrom Arena just because of disconnects and incredibly long lag spikes where everything was frozen. In retrospect, I probably should have just run it on my Warden with the Bear ultimate slotted, since the pet can pretty much solo the entire thing (other than some of the mechanics I guess).

At the moment, my only real gripe with this setup on Magicka Necromancer is that light attacks with the flame staff feel pretty janky and unresponsive a lot of the time. This is obviously not a good thing when you're relying on Torug's Pact for a significant portion of your damage.

Waffennacht · November 2020

Ive ran MA well over 100 times, my 2nd to last run was my first Winterborn destro staff.

Wolfpaw · November 2020

I never found Winterborn to be that useful due to radius+single CD+non stationary Cyrodiil combat

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal Frost Damage, you summon an ice pillar that deals 7400 Frost Damage to all enemies in a 3 meter radius. The ice pillar persists for 2 seconds and reduces the Movement Speed of all enemies within the radius by 50%. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

I would use if....

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal Frost Damage, you summon an ice pillar that deals 7400 Frost Damage to all enemies in a 3 meter radius. The ice pillar persists for 2 seconds and reduces the Movement Speed of all enemies within the radius by 50%. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds per target.

Kartalin · November 2020

Because of the three meter radius it makes it essentially a single target proc. Wouldn’t mind if they eliminate the AOE and change its cooldown to per target.

wheem_ESO · November 2020

Kartalin wrote: »

Because of the three meter radius it makes it essentially a single target proc. Wouldn’t mind if they eliminate the AOE and change its cooldown to per target.

Yea, the AOE is really more of a downside than a benefit, especially so long as some classes need Fire Staves in order to get access to a workable offensively-oriented CC. It's sort of like the Magicka Necromancer's Skeletal Mage; if you morph it to the Arcanist, which simply makes the attack a 5m AOE, all you're really doing is giving people with Major Evasion a significant amount of damage reduction. 'Course, Winterborn is actually worthwhile, whereas the Skeletal Mage/Arcanist isn't, but that's beside the point.

Adenoma · November 2020

Proc variations seem strong. Especially if you’re eschewing stamden’s allures and favoring max health. Does feel a bit disingenuous to call it a Magden though - mostly like a health-based build with a predominance of Magicka skills

Kartalin · November 2020

Here's the video I threw together of the build shared above with the clips I collected. Probably should have spent a bit more time getting better clips but there it is.

https://youtu.be/2tq9D3SiePY

NoFlash · December 2020

Following

Wolfpaw · December 2020

Wolfpaw wrote: »

I never found Winterborn to be that useful due to radius+single CD+non stationary Cyrodiil combat

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal Frost Damage, you summon an ice pillar that deals 7400 Frost Damage to all enemies in a 3 meter radius. The ice pillar persists for 2 seconds and reduces the Movement Speed of all enemies within the radius by 50%. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

I would use if....

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) When you deal Frost Damage, you summon an ice pillar that deals 7400 Frost Damage to all enemies in a 3 meter radius. The ice pillar persists for 2 seconds and reduces the Movement Speed of all enemies within the radius by 50%. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds per target.

Well I was wrong...

Nord
All tri-stat
Sugar Skulls or Citrus filet
1Chudan or 1Skoria Heavy
Winterborn
Icy Conjuror
Malacath inf/spell dmg
Frost staff x2 pen
Bb Vateshran frost staff
Pen Mstone

RiskyChalice863 · December 2020

@fred4 I’ve never really been able to get Magden to consistently work well in PvP, except with the heavy attack build we’ve discussed in another thread. And even there, I don’t really think Warden is the best class for it, though it is good. The most success I’ve had otherwise is more running as a snare and AOE DoT machine, but that’s more of a BG support kind of build, and isn’t really very good solo.

I think most solo Magicka Warden builds would focus a lot on lining up a burst that involves Deep Fissure + Flame Clench (with an enchant that goes off with it) + Cliff Racer or Force Pulse. It’s not really the best burst combo though.

The best sort-of Magicka Warden builds right now are probably going to be ones that mostly stack health and run proc sets. So, something like a Nord with virtually all attribute points into health, and with the gear being 5 pc Torug’s + Malacath + Zaan + 1 pc Trainee + 3pc Endurance on front bar + Vateshran’s Destro back bar. That gear’s just an example, and there’s lots of options along those same lines. But basically, Warden is really good for this because: (1) you can stack a lot of damage increases to procs and enchants (due to the animal companions passives, easy access to minor berserk, and also the increased frost damage passive); (2) you have a really good health-based heal; and (3) you have easy access to minor toughness. So with the above build a Warden can simultaneously probably be the tankiest and do the most damage with this sort of build.

You can have a build that, in no-CP, has over 40k health, about 30k resistances, over 2600 health recovery, and an over 10k burst heal tooltip, as well as +31% speed and access to major expedition on top of that, while having potential to do massive damage just by putting down a Wall of Elements, hitting someone with Elemental Drain, bar swapping and basically just hitting the person with light attacks or a channeled heavy attack. You’d proc Vateshran’s + Zaan + multiple procs of two infused Torug’s enchants—all of which are boosted a ton in damage by Malacath’s and the Warden passives (for example, in no-CP you could get an over 7k tooltip on a frost damage enchant). And you’d be really fast which would make it harder for them to get away from your Zaan and Vateshran’s procs, and any Arctic Blast stun (not to mention that you could easily immobilize and snare them with Gripping Shards). You wouldn’t have a large magicka pool (only 17k in this example) but you’d have 1600 magicka recovery + the Blue Betty + Constitution passive + Minor Magickasteal, and could keep up good pressure on an opponent even while heavy attacking for resources (because you’d be proccing the infused Torug’s enchant a bunch, and could proc your sets for free). It’s not exactly a “Magden” since it mostly pumps health, but this example does have 18 attribute points in magicka and uses destruction staffs and magicka abilities, so it is still a Magden in a sense.

MellowMagic · December 2020

Really now, I swear people be copying my builds lol.

I started theory crafting winterborn / icy conjurer / malacath / 1 pc domihaus since the stonethorn pts after the changes. Markarth finally added a good backbar option for the build and it was finally complete. Now I'm seeing people using almost this exact combo like damn, I thought it was pretty unique lol.

But hey more people using it means it works

taugrim · December 2020

MellowMagic wrote: »

Really now, I swear people be copying my builds lol.

I started theory crafting winterborn / icy conjurer / malacath / 1 pc domihaus

A lot of people come up with similar / same builds independently.

I've been almost exclusively Stamina but over the past month I've farmed Magicka gear.

What I landed on:
* Winterborn (no delay when proc'd, short cooldown)
* Malacath
* Swarm Mother for the 1-pc multiple stats bonus (obviously Domihaus and Stonekeeper work too)
* Eternal Vigor (for sustain / passive mitigation) or Syvarra's Scale (for the AOE DoT, 3 stat buffs)

Winterborn was suggested by a friend, and I'm glad he mentioned it.

Icy Conjurer is a popular choice but I haven't farmed it yet.

MellowMagic · December 2020

taugrim wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

Really now, I swear people be copying my builds lol.

I started theory crafting winterborn / icy conjurer / malacath / 1 pc domihaus

A lot of people come up with similar / same builds independently.

I've been almost exclusively Stamina but over the past month I've farmed Magicka gear.

What I landed on:
* Winterborn (no delay when proc'd, short cooldown)
* Malacath
* Swarm Mother for the 1-pc multiple stats bonus (obviously Domihaus and Stonekeeper work too)
* Eternal Vigor (for sustain / passive mitigation) or Syvarra's Scale (for the AOE DoT, 3 stat buffs)

Winterborn was suggested by a friend, and I'm glad he mentioned it.

Icy Conjurer is a popular choice but I haven't farmed it yet.

Haha I know I know I'm just being a goof, I was just surprised cause no one talked about winterborn for the last couple pts cycles, some people didn't realise the potential.

Waffennacht · December 2020

MellowMagic wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

Really now, I swear people be copying my builds lol.

I started theory crafting winterborn / icy conjurer / malacath / 1 pc domihaus

A lot of people come up with similar / same builds independently.

I've been almost exclusively Stamina but over the past month I've farmed Magicka gear.

What I landed on:
* Winterborn (no delay when proc'd, short cooldown)
* Malacath
* Swarm Mother for the 1-pc multiple stats bonus (obviously Domihaus and Stonekeeper work too)
* Eternal Vigor (for sustain / passive mitigation) or Syvarra's Scale (for the AOE DoT, 3 stat buffs)

Winterborn was suggested by a friend, and I'm glad he mentioned it.

Icy Conjurer is a popular choice but I haven't farmed it yet.

Haha I know I know I'm just being a goof, I was just surprised cause no one talked about winterborn for the last couple pts cycles, some people didn't realise the potential.

Ive ran it for years. I think ive posted like 3 or 4 builds on the forums with winterborn cryomancer.

Back when it was 6% per frost I still loved it.

People now just like or because its the only burst mag proc set that can be Proc instantly and buffed by Malacath.
It is a great set yes, really easy to use now