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Lancer sieges character bound to your crafter`s Alliance a Pain Point.

Moonsorrow
Moonsorrow
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As the topic says, when you get Lancer leads (that have become a rarity in my rng anyways) so you then go dig them up with your crafter character that has done the Antiquities.. they get immediately character bound. So cannot move them to other alliance PVP characters. Doing the same Antiquities thingy on 3 characters feels a bit odd and i have heard it can have some bugs with Leads progression since those are an account shared thingy?

This to me is sad and a big pain point.

Would be a nice QoL change to make the Lancer boxes Account Bound instead of Character Bound so that can before opening them move via bank to other characters of yours to be opened up and used.

ZOS, you made Lancers feel fun to use, the sound and graphic effects are awesome, like shooting with a rocket launcher.. beautiful at night time Cyrodiil, like deadly fireworks lighting up the sky with love from me to my enemies! <3

I don't always use Sieges, but when i do i use a Lancer to a stacked zerg. - Siegemaster Moonsorrow

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

If you could pass this QoL request on and ask if such a change would be possibly coming or planned already, would be nice and greatly appreciated, thank you. :)

Also, have a good and fun weekend everyone! :smiley:
  • FierceSam
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    It sounds like whoever dreamed up Antiquities never considered the ridiculous character/account bound situation that sows confusion through the game.

    In addition to this, you have the equally ridiculous situation that purple treasure leads are only available once per account - meaning that levelling a second Antiquity toon is infinitely more painful than the tortuous grind endured by the first one.

    I like the fact that leads are account bound, so any character can find them, but binding PvP rewards to the crafter’s alliance shows a contemptuous ignorance of how most players play the game (ie with multiple players from multiple alliances)

    Sort this ZOS.
  • VaranisArano
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    It seems to work the same way as other siege rewards such as the Pelinal's Boxes from MYM (or even rewards for the worthy). They match the alliance of the character who opens them.
  • Major_Lag
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    I think this is not a mistake - far from it, most likely a very deliberate decision by ZOS, intended to enforce encourage more tedious grinding content participation across all of your characters.

    This is not be the first time such an "engineered inconvenience" has been put in the game, and most certainly not the last.
  • Agenericname
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    It seems to work the same way as other siege rewards such as the Pelinal's Boxes from MYM (or even rewards for the worthy). They match the alliance of the character who opens them.

    Correct, they match the alliance of the character that opens them, but not necessarily the one that earned them.

    A player may earn the boxes on EP, leave in the mail, log into a DC character and open them. Since the character with the antiquities line high enough to scry and excavate must be the one to dig them up the lancer is locked to that faction in a way that cold fire siege is not.

    I believe that Lancers are purple and do not require a maxed level in antiquities to scry and dig, so it wouldn't be the same grind to be able to acquire them on a different faction, which is what I did.
  • RaddlemanNumber7
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    My level 10 antiquarian is DC, my PvP characters are mostly AD. I discovered this issue when my antiquarian dug up my first Lancer crate. The crate is character bound for some bizarre reason. If the crate was made account bound this alliance problem would go away.

    My work-around was to get an AD toon to level 5 in antiquarian skills so that she could deal with the purple Lancer leads. It didn't take long doing the green and blue treasure leads. I then had the fun of raining fire, frost and lighting down upon my enemies during MyM :)

    PC EU
  • Raisin
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    I was very disappointed to find this out, and found the container being character-bound very absurd. Why even make it. Container to open, if it's already tied to the alliance you chose to level antiquities on?
    As others have said, levelling antiquities to 5 may not be the end of the world, but it is overall a very absurd concept.
  • madrab73
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    Why not just change alliance?
  • Moonsorrow
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    madrab73 wrote: »
    Why not just change alliance?

    I kinda compare Antiquities to other Crafting skills, my Crafter can craft AND move the crafted gear via bank and storage chests to other Alliance characters of mine. So.. why i cannot do same with Antiquities digged up stuff?

    I mean, that Skill Line even it is on World line, is as close to a crafting skill as anything can be and most have picked to do it with their Crafter since it is same kind of a "grind".

    With same logic, we all would then need a Crafter on EACH alliance also and gear we craft getting locked to that character and/or to that Alliance only.

    So all i see personally as do many here, that it was a design flaw on Antiquities what comes to Sieges getting locked. Doing same grind (or up to a certain level) will not increase my time of playing since i already play so much that it cannot increase lol.

    And why not change Alliance? Then do it again for the 3rd Alliance also? So 2 Alliance change tokens? I think not. I already payed for the Chapter to do that Skill Line, pay ESO+ every month for years, and also buy Crowns on top of that for random purchases.. So, i think it would be just good customer service to do a QoL change like this to the Lancer boxes not be Character Bound.

    But i guess some are happy to switch Alliances 2 times to cover all 3? :D
  • AlnilamE
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    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    madrab73 wrote: »
    Why not just change alliance?

    I kinda compare Antiquities to other Crafting skills, my Crafter can craft AND move the crafted gear via bank and storage chests to other Alliance characters of mine. So.. why i cannot do same with Antiquities digged up stuff?

    I mean, that Skill Line even it is on World line, is as close to a crafting skill as anything can be and most have picked to do it with their Crafter since it is same kind of a "grind".

    With same logic, we all would then need a Crafter on EACH alliance also and gear we craft getting locked to that character and/or to that Alliance only.

    So all i see personally as do many here, that it was a design flaw on Antiquities what comes to Sieges getting locked. Doing same grind (or up to a certain level) will not increase my time of playing since i already play so much that it cannot increase lol.

    Everything that is alliance specific in the game is tied to the alliance of the character who found it.

    If I take my AD and DC characters to cyrodiil for map completion and they get cold siege from the dolmens, my EP characters can't use them, even though they are my main PvP faction.

    Likewise, I cannot take an EP character to Cyrodiil to open chests in hopes of finding AD or DC motifs, I have to take my DC and AD characters in to do that.

    So this is nothing new, just a bit unexpected for some.

    As others have pointed out, leveling scrying to 5 does not take long (I just got my second character to that level today, at a very lazy pace - my goal is to reach 7 so they all get the keen eye for chests).

    The Moot Councillor
  • Dreyloch
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    My level 10 antiquarian is DC, my PvP characters are mostly AD. I discovered this issue when my antiquarian dug up my first Lancer crate. The crate is character bound for some bizarre reason. If the crate was made account bound this alliance problem would go away.

    My work-around was to get an AD toon to level 5 in antiquarian skills so that she could deal with the purple Lancer leads. It didn't take long doing the green and blue treasure leads. I then had the fun of raining fire, frost and lighting down upon my enemies during MyM :)

    I did the same thing with Dc and EP toons. Kind of annoying, but my second toon is now level 7 (almost 8). So I can do gold leads agaion. But I agree with the OP. It should be account bound. Having to do it all over twice (or more) is kinda dumb.
    "The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"
  • Tammany
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    Digged as dominion character, moved to EP character:
    H5fqQ6m.png
    You are not able to use it ?
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    Yeah, "you are not a member of Aldmeri"

    Edited by Tammany on July 13, 2020 7:52AM
  • Raisin
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    Tammany wrote: »
    How hard it is to open the box, place lancer into the bank and recieve it as the character you need it on
    Digged as dominion character, moved to EP character:
    H5fqQ6m.png

    2020 Gaming community, has problems on every corner.

    [snip]

    People want to be able to USE the ballista, not have it look pretty in their inventory. Show us that video of your EP character using an AD siege weapon.

    Edit: Just refreshed the thread lol

    [Edited to remove Baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 13, 2020 12:46PM
  • Moonsorrow
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    Tammany wrote: »
    Digged as dominion character, moved to EP character:
    H5fqQ6m.png
    You are not able to use it ?
    ___
    Yeah, "you are not a member of Aldmeri"

    And THAT is what i mean, you cannot use them from any other than your Crafter/Antiquities Digger Alliance characters, that is clearly not right design imo. Since you CAN craft gear and use on any Alliance characters.. why would this be any different.

    Just make the Siege box account bound until opened, then after that it can bound to that Alliance same as any other siege engine does.
  • RaddlemanNumber7
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    I'm just amazed at the perspicacity of the Dwemer, knowing that they had to make different versions of these weapons suitable for use by the Dominion, Covenant or Pact in the Three Banners War.
    PC EU
  • AlnilamE
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    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Tammany wrote: »
    Digged as dominion character, moved to EP character:
    H5fqQ6m.png
    You are not able to use it ?
    ___
    Yeah, "you are not a member of Aldmeri"

    And THAT is what i mean, you cannot use them from any other than your Crafter/Antiquities Digger Alliance characters, that is clearly not right design imo. Since you CAN craft gear and use on any Alliance characters.. why would this be any different.

    Just make the Siege box account bound until opened, then after that it can bound to that Alliance same as any other siege engine does.

    There are two long-standing game mechanics involved in this:

    1. Alliance specific things always "set" to the alliance of the character when first acquiring it (ie, Alliance motifs, Cold Siege, and technically any siege you buy from the merchant).
    2. Container have been unbankable since early in the game when people abused the hireling boxes to get max level mats on low level crafters.


    On a side note I don't understand people who don't want to unlock Keen Eye for chests on as many characters a possible, which is two levels higher than what is required to dig up siege.
    The Moot Councillor
  • Jaimeh
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    The only lancer I've gotten so far is one my main, whose alliance I never PvP in :D I went ahead and scried/excavated the lead since I'm not going to level antiquities on a second character any time soon. Still, it sucks I can't use it on the main campaign that's locked to another faction.
  • Moonsorrow
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    Jaimeh wrote: »
    The only lancer I've gotten so far is one my main, whose alliance I never PvP in :D I went ahead and scried/excavated the lead since I'm not going to level antiquities on a second character any time soon. Still, it sucks I can't use it on the main campaign that's locked to another faction.

    This exactly is the pain point for many and it came as a surprise since it was not mentioned as far as i recall on the Greymoor patch notes. Thus many chose to do the Excavation on their character used for crafting instead of their PVP alliance character(s).

    So.. would not imo be that much that for such a QoL change to happen that Lancer gets bound to that Alliance when opened on a character instead of the moment you dig it up.

    Would be a GoodGuy ZOS change that many of us would appreciate and like.

    Yes, can grind it on many characters or use alliance change tokens.. but why? Because no need to do such on regular crafting also since we can move stuff around we made freely.

    @ZOS_SarahHecker or anyone, can someone atleast confirm if this is an intended design on Antiquities or if it would be possible to change to make the Lancers get bound to Alliance after opened the box?

    Would be greatly appreciated if can get some nugget of information if such a change is planned or considered even? :)
  • Moonsorrow
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Tammany wrote: »
    Digged as dominion character, moved to EP character:
    H5fqQ6m.png
    You are not able to use it ?
    ___
    Yeah, "you are not a member of Aldmeri"

    And THAT is what i mean, you cannot use them from any other than your Crafter/Antiquities Digger Alliance characters, that is clearly not right design imo. Since you CAN craft gear and use on any Alliance characters.. why would this be any different.

    Just make the Siege box account bound until opened, then after that it can bound to that Alliance same as any other siege engine does.

    There are two long-standing game mechanics involved in this:

    1. Alliance specific things always "set" to the alliance of the character when first acquiring it (ie, Alliance motifs, Cold Siege, and technically any siege you buy from the merchant).
    2. Container have been unbankable since early in the game when people abused the hireling boxes to get max level mats on low level crafters.


    On a side note I don't understand people who don't want to unlock Keen Eye for chests on as many characters a possible, which is two levels higher than what is required to dig up siege.

    I could do a million AP on one alliance character, then go open the mails on another character in different alliance, and thus "move" sieges like Coldharbor ballistas during MYM that way. They then get locked for using to that Alliance.

    And to that Chest passive, i REALLY do not need the chest passive on my PVP characters.. i am in combat at Cyrodiil and battlegrounds most of the time with them, so not opening chests..

    It is a handy passive for my Crafter/farmer though, but that is not the issue here anyways. But just the QoL improvement that making them Account Bound until opened. You cannot abuse Lancer boxes in any way since they have nothing else in them, and if you want, you already can use it on a low level character (if excavated up on that Alliance).

    So what one can have against such a QoL change?

    Anyone can grind as many characters for the Chest passive even if this change would happen that would allow our Crafter then move the box to other Alliance character of yours to be opened and used (and locked then there naturally like all other alliance locked sieges do). :)

    It is easy to get Coldharbor Ballistas and so on for all alliances, Lancers are rare and when gets them, would be nice to be able to select where (on what Alliance) uses them.
  • AlnilamE
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    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Tammany wrote: »
    Digged as dominion character, moved to EP character:
    H5fqQ6m.png
    You are not able to use it ?
    ___
    Yeah, "you are not a member of Aldmeri"

    And THAT is what i mean, you cannot use them from any other than your Crafter/Antiquities Digger Alliance characters, that is clearly not right design imo. Since you CAN craft gear and use on any Alliance characters.. why would this be any different.

    Just make the Siege box account bound until opened, then after that it can bound to that Alliance same as any other siege engine does.

    There are two long-standing game mechanics involved in this:

    1. Alliance specific things always "set" to the alliance of the character when first acquiring it (ie, Alliance motifs, Cold Siege, and technically any siege you buy from the merchant).
    2. Container have been unbankable since early in the game when people abused the hireling boxes to get max level mats on low level crafters.


    On a side note I don't understand people who don't want to unlock Keen Eye for chests on as many characters a possible, which is two levels higher than what is required to dig up siege.

    I could do a million AP on one alliance character, then go open the mails on another character in different alliance, and thus "move" sieges like Coldharbor ballistas during MYM that way. They then get locked for using to that Alliance.

    And to that Chest passive, i REALLY do not need the chest passive on my PVP characters.. i am in combat at Cyrodiil and battlegrounds most of the time with them, so not opening chests..

    It is a handy passive for my Crafter/farmer though, but that is not the issue here anyways. But just the QoL improvement that making them Account Bound until opened. You cannot abuse Lancer boxes in any way since they have nothing else in them, and if you want, you already can use it on a low level character (if excavated up on that Alliance).

    So what one can have against such a QoL change?

    Anyone can grind as many characters for the Chest passive even if this change would happen that would allow our Crafter then move the box to other Alliance character of yours to be opened and used (and locked then there naturally like all other alliance locked sieges do). :)

    It is easy to get Coldharbor Ballistas and so on for all alliances, Lancers are rare and when gets them, would be nice to be able to select where (on what Alliance) uses them.

    I have nothing against the QoL change, I am just pointing out the two long-standing mechanics that are the underlying cause of this issue. If this were an easy fix, I'd be able to bank all the style pages and rune boxes I've accumulated over the years, after all.

    Unless you are suggesting that, like Rewards for the Worthy, the antiquity gets sent to you via mail when you excavate it, rather than being put in your inventory (which would be super weird from an immersion standpoint).
    The Moot Councillor
  • Moonsorrow
    Moonsorrow
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Tammany wrote: »
    Digged as dominion character, moved to EP character:
    H5fqQ6m.png
    You are not able to use it ?
    ___
    Yeah, "you are not a member of Aldmeri"

    And THAT is what i mean, you cannot use them from any other than your Crafter/Antiquities Digger Alliance characters, that is clearly not right design imo. Since you CAN craft gear and use on any Alliance characters.. why would this be any different.

    Just make the Siege box account bound until opened, then after that it can bound to that Alliance same as any other siege engine does.

    There are two long-standing game mechanics involved in this:

    1. Alliance specific things always "set" to the alliance of the character when first acquiring it (ie, Alliance motifs, Cold Siege, and technically any siege you buy from the merchant).
    2. Container have been unbankable since early in the game when people abused the hireling boxes to get max level mats on low level crafters.


    On a side note I don't understand people who don't want to unlock Keen Eye for chests on as many characters a possible, which is two levels higher than what is required to dig up siege.

    I could do a million AP on one alliance character, then go open the mails on another character in different alliance, and thus "move" sieges like Coldharbor ballistas during MYM that way. They then get locked for using to that Alliance.

    And to that Chest passive, i REALLY do not need the chest passive on my PVP characters.. i am in combat at Cyrodiil and battlegrounds most of the time with them, so not opening chests..

    It is a handy passive for my Crafter/farmer though, but that is not the issue here anyways. But just the QoL improvement that making them Account Bound until opened. You cannot abuse Lancer boxes in any way since they have nothing else in them, and if you want, you already can use it on a low level character (if excavated up on that Alliance).

    So what one can have against such a QoL change?

    Anyone can grind as many characters for the Chest passive even if this change would happen that would allow our Crafter then move the box to other Alliance character of yours to be opened and used (and locked then there naturally like all other alliance locked sieges do). :)

    It is easy to get Coldharbor Ballistas and so on for all alliances, Lancers are rare and when gets them, would be nice to be able to select where (on what Alliance) uses them.

    I have nothing against the QoL change, I am just pointing out the two long-standing mechanics that are the underlying cause of this issue. If this were an easy fix, I'd be able to bank all the style pages and rune boxes I've accumulated over the years, after all.

    Unless you are suggesting that, like Rewards for the Worthy, the antiquity gets sent to you via mail when you excavate it, rather than being put in your inventory (which would be super weird from an immersion standpoint).

    I am not suggesting anything against the long-standing mechanics.. just that Antiquities Lancer box to be Account Bound until opened and then be bound normally to that Alliance on what character opens it.

    It would not change anything on any other mechanics or restrictions. And no, no mails, just being able to move it like you can move any Account bound item to yourself via bank.

    Why thinking this so complicated when its just very simple issue that many has with it and was a surprise to most.. since you CAN also move the furnitures on your houses and other items (bonus items too) around your characters that you dig up on Antiquities.

    Why are Lancers different? After opened, can get locked to that alliance . Simple imo.
  • Jaraal
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    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Why are Lancers different? After opened, can get locked to that alliance . Simple imo.

    Agreed.

    I just dug up my first Lancer today with my Antiquities guy, who does not PvP.

    What a let down! All other Antiquities are account bound but this one. Why not let us bank it and use it on the character who can actually benefit from using it?
  • Zer0_CooL
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    Just buy the skilline in crownstore mate :trollface:
  • NeillMcAttack
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    Can you not trade them in guild stores? It should have functioned the same as cold fire siege’s. At least then you could sell to another alliance and use the money to buy one for your alliance!! Come on ZOS!!!
    PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvP
    Tiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP Main
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    Lone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD
    @ McAttack in game
    Played since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.
  • agegarton
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    I have two Frost Lancers sitting in my bank - they're not character bound.

    Has something changed recently ?
  • L_Nici
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    The Lancer suits the alliance of the opener of the box. If you dig them up they will be a box, that box can be placed on bank and taken out by whatever char you please. And the Alliance of the Char that opens them determines the Alliance of the Lancer.
    PC|EU
  • Dalsinthus
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    L_Nici wrote: »
    The Lancer suits the alliance of the opener of the box. If you dig them up they will be a box, that box can be placed on bank and taken out by whatever char you please. And the Alliance of the Char that opens them determines the Alliance of the Lancer.
    The boxes can’t be banked so this doesn’t work. The simplest solution to this problem would be to make the boxes bankable; then what you outlined would work great.
  • DaveMoeDee
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    The current approach sounds great in principle. But leveling antiquities on the first character is no fun whatsoever, and far worse on any other character do to the loss of the purples in each zone.

    There is a fundamental tension between the joy of developing a character and the joy of trying different builds/roles in PvP. I don't think that tension can ever be satisfactorily resolved in ESO without the time to grind and the ability to enjoy spending a ton of time grinding.

    I suppose the pro to this approach is trying to push people to focus on a single alliance--for those people who consider that a good thing.
  • virtus753
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    Can you not trade them in guild stores? It should have functioned the same as cold fire siege’s. At least then you could sell to another alliance and use the money to buy one for your alliance!! Come on ZOS!!!

    Most Antiquities are bound, including this one. It may be disappointing, but it isn’t a surprise.
  • AlnilamE
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    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Tammany wrote: »
    Digged as dominion character, moved to EP character:
    H5fqQ6m.png
    You are not able to use it ?
    ___
    Yeah, "you are not a member of Aldmeri"

    And THAT is what i mean, you cannot use them from any other than your Crafter/Antiquities Digger Alliance characters, that is clearly not right design imo. Since you CAN craft gear and use on any Alliance characters.. why would this be any different.

    Just make the Siege box account bound until opened, then after that it can bound to that Alliance same as any other siege engine does.

    There are two long-standing game mechanics involved in this:

    1. Alliance specific things always "set" to the alliance of the character when first acquiring it (ie, Alliance motifs, Cold Siege, and technically any siege you buy from the merchant).
    2. Container have been unbankable since early in the game when people abused the hireling boxes to get max level mats on low level crafters.


    On a side note I don't understand people who don't want to unlock Keen Eye for chests on as many characters a possible, which is two levels higher than what is required to dig up siege.

    I could do a million AP on one alliance character, then go open the mails on another character in different alliance, and thus "move" sieges like Coldharbor ballistas during MYM that way. They then get locked for using to that Alliance.

    And to that Chest passive, i REALLY do not need the chest passive on my PVP characters.. i am in combat at Cyrodiil and battlegrounds most of the time with them, so not opening chests..

    It is a handy passive for my Crafter/farmer though, but that is not the issue here anyways. But just the QoL improvement that making them Account Bound until opened. You cannot abuse Lancer boxes in any way since they have nothing else in them, and if you want, you already can use it on a low level character (if excavated up on that Alliance).

    So what one can have against such a QoL change?

    Anyone can grind as many characters for the Chest passive even if this change would happen that would allow our Crafter then move the box to other Alliance character of yours to be opened and used (and locked then there naturally like all other alliance locked sieges do). :)

    It is easy to get Coldharbor Ballistas and so on for all alliances, Lancers are rare and when gets them, would be nice to be able to select where (on what Alliance) uses them.

    I have nothing against the QoL change, I am just pointing out the two long-standing mechanics that are the underlying cause of this issue. If this were an easy fix, I'd be able to bank all the style pages and rune boxes I've accumulated over the years, after all.

    Unless you are suggesting that, like Rewards for the Worthy, the antiquity gets sent to you via mail when you excavate it, rather than being put in your inventory (which would be super weird from an immersion standpoint).

    I am not suggesting anything against the long-standing mechanics.. just that Antiquities Lancer box to be Account Bound until opened and then be bound normally to that Alliance on what character opens it.

    It would not change anything on any other mechanics or restrictions. And no, no mails, just being able to move it like you can move any Account bound item to yourself via bank.

    Why thinking this so complicated when its just very simple issue that many has with it and was a surprise to most.. since you CAN also move the furnitures on your houses and other items (bonus items too) around your characters that you dig up on Antiquities.

    Why are Lancers different? After opened, can get locked to that alliance . Simple imo.

    Lancers are NOT different. That's the point.

    These two things have been true almost since the game came out:

    1. Boxes are not bankable
    2. Alliance-based items are set to the alliance of the character that acquires them (motifs and siege, for example)

    You can't go to Cyrodiil and farm cold siege on a character of one alliance in hopes of using it on another.

    Now, again, I'm not opposed to them changing point 1 so that we *can* finally bank boxes again. I don't think there's a way to abuse that at this point (unlike when the game came out, which is why it was changed in the first place)

    But the game has been like this for years and the people who got surprised by this weren't paying attention.
    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    The current approach sounds great in principle. But leveling antiquities on the first character is no fun whatsoever, and far worse on any other character do to the loss of the purples in each zone.

    I don't know. I'm working on getting my 4th character to level 7 so they can see glowy chests and it's ok. And I'm not even done collecting all the lore for the green/blue treasures.

    I found that as soon as they hit level 3-4, I can scry purples on my main and have the alt dig them up. This would also be a solution for those whose main scryer is not of their main PvP alliance. Scry the siege on your main and dig them up on an alt of the right alliance.

    The Moot Councillor
  • dcam86b14_ESO
    dcam86b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    have no issue with the current system. Earn your Antiq level and gain your rewards, it's really that simple.
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