I have a healer using Torug and seducer cp 160 with skoria. Works great in vet dungeons as far as I can tell

This is basically being added to the game in Markarth whether any of us like it or not. I for one like it. Crafted sets do need more love tho.

zaria wrote: »

As i understand with next update random dungeons will drop 10 transmute crystals making it the obvious source for crystals.

idk wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

linuxlady wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

But then what would be the point in farming? This would in one fell swoop eradicate one of the pillars of the game... farming for gear.

Would that save me a ton of time and effort and gold, yes. But would I have the motivation to run different content without the incentive to obtain the gear? Unlikely to anything like the same extent.

ESO if chock full of intentionally created features that funnel players into areas and content, to ensure the population for them, remains at acceptable levels. Farming for gear is one, fundamental, such funnel, imagen how much fewer people would be in dungeon queues or looking to run trials, without it.

Thats a pleasant image really

Which part, not having enough people in dungeon queues to actually run them? If you drastically reduce the players engaging with that content, queue times will sky rocket. I cant see how that is pleasant?

That's hyperbolic. Even in the most extreme circumstances, the worst you'd see is a breakdown of the groupfinder system.

That'd be pretty extreme, given the volume of players that use and rely on the groupfinder system. That's the whole point I am making. If there are not enough players engaging with dungeon Qs, the Q times will increase, when they are already too long by most peoples objective measure (mainly with respect to the dps role, but also even for healers and tanks sometimes).

What you say is hyperbolic, seems to be what you are acknowledging would happen to the groupfinder system.

The problem with the groupfinder isn't the lack of players. It's a lack of support roles, especially tanks. It's also why fake healers and fake tanks are such a problem for PUGs. If you're a DPS, it takes forever and a day. If you're a healer, it might take a couple minutes. If you're a tank, you'll get a group before you can close the finder window.

I would say the problem with the groupfinder is the number of players who are still learning the basics of gameplay yet still queue for a vet dungeon. I am not just talking about the low DPS but that they are so uncomfortable with their gameplay they do not notice the telegraph telling them about an avoidable attack. When they get rezzed they die to the same thing because they really do not know what is going on.

It is things like that is why tanks avoid the GF. We have them, they are just not a glutton for punishment.

As i understand with next update random dungeons will drop 10 transmute crystals making it the obvious source for crystals.
Agree with the video that trials get too little while random probably is a bit high.

Since you quoted me explaining why tanks do not use the GF to get into dungeon groups I have no idea how getting more transmutation crystals is relevant.

We use the GF. We do random dungeons. We just prefer to not roll the dice and take a chance or getting a group that cannot clear a dungeon.

AlnilamE wrote: »

idk wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

linuxlady wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

But then what would be the point in farming? This would in one fell swoop eradicate one of the pillars of the game... farming for gear.

Would that save me a ton of time and effort and gold, yes. But would I have the motivation to run different content without the incentive to obtain the gear? Unlikely to anything like the same extent.

ESO if chock full of intentionally created features that funnel players into areas and content, to ensure the population for them, remains at acceptable levels. Farming for gear is one, fundamental, such funnel, imagen how much fewer people would be in dungeon queues or looking to run trials, without it.

Thats a pleasant image really

Which part, not having enough people in dungeon queues to actually run them? If you drastically reduce the players engaging with that content, queue times will sky rocket. I cant see how that is pleasant?

That's hyperbolic. Even in the most extreme circumstances, the worst you'd see is a breakdown of the groupfinder system.

That'd be pretty extreme, given the volume of players that use and rely on the groupfinder system. That's the whole point I am making. If there are not enough players engaging with dungeon Qs, the Q times will increase, when they are already too long by most peoples objective measure (mainly with respect to the dps role, but also even for healers and tanks sometimes).

What you say is hyperbolic, seems to be what you are acknowledging would happen to the groupfinder system.

The problem with the groupfinder isn't the lack of players. It's a lack of support roles, especially tanks. It's also why fake healers and fake tanks are such a problem for PUGs. If you're a DPS, it takes forever and a day. If you're a healer, it might take a couple minutes. If you're a tank, you'll get a group before you can close the finder window.

I would say the problem with the groupfinder is the number of players who are still learning the basics of gameplay yet still queue for a vet dungeon. I am not just talking about the low DPS but that they are so uncomfortable with their gameplay they do not notice the telegraph telling them about an avoidable attack. When they get rezzed they die to the same thing because they really do not know what is going on.

It is things like that is why tanks avoid the GF. We have them, they are just not a glutton for punishment.

The thing is that most people learn mechanics by doing the dungeon. If I'm in a dungeon the first couple of times, you can tell me what's going to happen, but my brain is not going to catch that telegraph until it's hit me a couple of times.

Like, I remember before 1T when I would do the last fight in vet Banished Cells and there would be a lot of running around like a headless chicken, until my brain sorted out all the things that were happening and now I know exactly what to expect, what to do when each thing happens and the dungeon got 10x easier. Not because the difficulty changed, but because I got used to the fight.

@AlnilamE

You bring up a good point. Heck, back in early 2014 I did not know how to do Vet Wayrest or Vet Fungal Grotto. I grouped up with some guildmates that had made it to the vet ranks and we worked together to learn the mechanics. Back then those dungeons were much more challenging than they are today.

I did not go into random groups lacking an idea or even a basic understanding of how to play ESO. The problem is, that is what we have all to often using the GF. We queue 3-man a few times a week so we see the overall quality of players who queue solo. Some are decent players, but that is not the majority. It is not an issue for the group I run with as we can carry them through most dungeons.

We ran into a CP500+ stamina melee player who actually said they did not have an interrupt. That is one of the first things we are taught yet this player lacked a clue concerning such very basic gameplay. We often find melee players who are oblivious to what is happening around them. They die to a PBAoE that is well telegraphed, we rez them and they die to the same PBAoE. We do not rez a second time in the same fight because they are not learning from such obvious issues. In the next fight, they die to that boss's PBAoE.

These are players that have no business queueing for a vet dungeon and it has nothing to do with their DPS, though that is not very good either. That is the reason most decent tanks do not queue solo.

starkerealm wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

All I want is crafted gear to be worth a damn endgame.

It varies patch to patch, but some of it is quite viable. Torug's used to be one of the main tank sets, and is still a legitimate choice. Hundings and Juli are reliable standards. You can do better, but they will always deliver. Fortified Brass was, for a couple patches, one of the best PvP sets in the game.

Crafted sets aren't just throwaway garbage. Many of them are quite effective in the right build.

While true, majority BiS is trial crap. I wish there was crafted equivalent that just takes tons more materials and resources to make.

Anytime someone says BiS in ESO... it comes from a place where they haven't really looked at their options. I know, we had Asian who used go, "I've done the math, this set is the best," only for @Xynode to wander in with triple the parse on gear that Asian had disregarded as trash.

The problem with trying to establish a BiS in ESO is, your entire gear loadout is very synergistic. So you can say, "this set is the best," or even, 'this set combo is the best," only for it to be upset by a combination you didn't even bother to check. A lot of this is because the high end theory crafting tends to latch onto a set, and then try to find the best set to compliment that.

The second thing is that the margin between, "BiS" and entirely functional is actually pretty narrow most of the time. When there is a set with a major advantage, it's going to get pounded down with the next patch. We've seen this time and again. (Now, there are junk sets. There are sets that are simply upgraded versions of other sets. But,) on the whole, BiS doesn't mean nearly as much as it does in other MMOs, and even then, it's frequently not as true as you might expect.

While you are correct most "end game guilds" tend to ignore you if your in full crafted. Personally I run a medium armor stamblade build i built for my playstyle. My dps is above average and people still try to tare in to it because it's not what x or y guide says to use.

Most end game guilds will ignore you if you're not in their inner clique. They may say that's a crafted set thing, but if you're on the inside, the vast majority of them wouldn't care. If you're on the outside, they won't care even if you're running the exact, proscribed loadout, and even then, you'd only be a fill consideration at best.

I disagree. Most end game guilds could care less about what gear you are wearing. They care about the end result which the DPS a DD pulls in actual fights and of course how well they handle mechanics including not dying.

In one aspect you are correct that there is an inner circle but that is the case with any guild. However, competitive raiding guilds will take in players that demonstrate ability and many will work to try to develop players that show potential. They are always looking for new talent which is required to stay alive as players take breaks or change raid groups.

Granted, they will not take in just anyone. Any well-run raid guild, regardless of what level they raid at, has goals and then set the requirements of players to meet those goals. Everyone needs to know what is expected even if it is merely that they need to raid with the guild X times a month.

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

All I want is crafted gear to be worth a damn endgame.

It varies patch to patch, but some of it is quite viable. Torug's used to be one of the main tank sets, and is still a legitimate choice. Hundings and Juli are reliable standards. You can do better, but they will always deliver. Fortified Brass was, for a couple patches, one of the best PvP sets in the game.

Crafted sets aren't just throwaway garbage. Many of them are quite effective in the right build.

While true, majority BiS is trial crap. I wish there was crafted equivalent that just takes tons more materials and resources to make.

Anytime someone says BiS in ESO... it comes from a place where they haven't really looked at their options. I know, we had Asian who used go, "I've done the math, this set is the best," only for @Xynode to wander in with triple the parse on gear that Asian had disregarded as trash.

The problem with trying to establish a BiS in ESO is, your entire gear loadout is very synergistic. So you can say, "this set is the best," or even, 'this set combo is the best," only for it to be upset by a combination you didn't even bother to check. A lot of this is because the high end theory crafting tends to latch onto a set, and then try to find the best set to compliment that.

The second thing is that the margin between, "BiS" and entirely functional is actually pretty narrow most of the time. When there is a set with a major advantage, it's going to get pounded down with the next patch. We've seen this time and again. (Now, there are junk sets. There are sets that are simply upgraded versions of other sets. But,) on the whole, BiS doesn't mean nearly as much as it does in other MMOs, and even then, it's frequently not as true as you might expect.

While you are correct most "end game guilds" tend to ignore you if your in full crafted. Personally I run a medium armor stamblade build i built for my playstyle. My dps is above average and people still try to tare in to it because it's not what x or y guide says to use.

Most end game guilds will ignore you if you're not in their inner clique. They may say that's a crafted set thing, but if you're on the inside, the vast majority of them wouldn't care. If you're on the outside, they won't care even if you're running the exact, proscribed loadout, and even then, you'd only be a fill consideration at best.

I disagree. Most end game guilds could care less about what gear you are wearing. They care about the end result which the DPS a DD pulls in actual fights and of course how well they handle mechanics including not dying.

In one aspect you are correct that there is an inner circle but that is the case with any guild. However, competitive raiding guilds will take in players that demonstrate ability and many will work to try to develop players that show potential. They are always looking for new talent which is required to stay alive as players take breaks or change raid groups.

Granted, they will not take in just anyone. Any well-run raid guild, regardless of what level they raid at, has goals and then set the requirements of players to meet those goals. Everyone needs to know what is expected even if it is merely that they need to raid with the guild X times a month.

With respect to you, in a lot of cases this isn't entirely true. While most endgame raid guilds will hold up your performance as the determining factor. Many do not apply that standard evenly. Members of the inner circle are given far more leeway, while members outside of it may be required to hit much higher marks to get a seat, and even then it's not guaranteed.

In theory, you're correct, but the reality is that many endgame guilds really do run off of social connections more than a true meritocracy.

Further, there are a lot of endgame guilds out there that do get neurotic about gear choices. Now, there is a valid point about coordinating loadouts so that people synergize together effectively, and so that necessary buffs and debuffs are being applied. That's absolutely a thing. But, you'll also see groups where the raid leader will dictate what new players need to wear, while not really caring what their friends bring to the fight.

I would suggest it is easy to generalize based on a limited experience which is what both of us have. I know I have not been in most end game guilds even though I have experienced a number of them. Also, as a raid leader, I dictate, to a degree, what anyone wears for the groups benefit to make sure certain sets are worn. However, singling out a new player as is pointed out is also something that is specific to some raid leaders. As such it is a generalization.