can we get an aoe taunt?

kargen27 · October 2020

Kory wrote: »

I would like an AOE taunt! It's not needed at all if DPS is good, but an aoe taunt can really bail out lower dps players.
Also sometimes I'll notice dps player running around with agro, and most of the time I can't and won't chase you around so I can taunt, but some sort of aoe taunt could help that situation too.

Perhaps add AOE taunt to Frozen Gate (the Warden skill), and have multiple enemies teleported to me, because that skill is knocking on useless in my opinion.

You have a ranged taunt to take care of that DPS running around with agro. You can also let the DPS know if they get agro they can't handle they need to run what is chasing them to the tank. Tanks can easily control a room without an AoE.

Raideen · October 2020

There should absolutely be an AOE taunt. The fact there isn't is mind boggling.

For one. A classes toolset for their given job (in this case tanking) should cover a wide variety of scenarios.

I don't tank, but I have tanked. I have a hybrid templar with about 33k resist, 21k health and I run frost staff for taunts and sometimes the undaunted taunt skill (I forget the name). I keep two gear sets on me. The durable tanky set and a pure DPS set.

Much of the time I run normal dungeons when I queue for a PUG. Much of the time this means I am placed with lower level characters. I generally start to do about 75% of the overall damage in these runs, even the tanks have a hard time getting aggro back form me, so I end up "tanking" and most of the time the group just runs with it.

I have also noticed that due to the 4 man group with 2 dps that DPSing close to 50% of the damage is seen as "pulling your weight" anything less than 45 and I start to get whispers and hate speech about my performance. I can only assume that because I say nothing more in a random run than "hello, or howdy" at the beginning, that the elitist speech towards me is not due to an enemy I made, but due to the fact that so many people see DPS that is less than 45% as not pulling their weight. Because of this, I can only assume others have been in the same boat I am and others learn from these experiences. One of the first things I learned is that a fair amount of the DPS listed is based on who starts damaging first. This is true in WOW, this is true in SWTOR, this is true in ESO.

So what happens is that DPS (for fear of not wanting to be called out as having LOW DPS) will often start DPSing immediately, before the tank has a change to set things up. This can cause the DPS to have aggro and in most cases, its AOE aggro.

Because of this AOE aggro, it would be nice to have an AOE taunt to get the aggro back.

Is it true that DPS should not start DPSing until the tank gets a hold of the mobs, yes, but in practice this is not how any random run works. Because of this, the game should be designed for WHAT IS happening in game, and not "DESIGN THEORY". Because the two are at odd with one another.

So, because of this, yes there should be an AOE taunt. Give tanks the tools they need to do their jobs the best they can, even when someone else makes a mistake.

Tanks NOT having an AOE taunt, is no different than Healers NOT having an AOE heal. Its just dumb.

holden_caulfield · October 2020

idk wrote: »

1. All group content in ESO has been tanked successfully a great many times without an AoE taunt. This is because the game was designed not to need one. For players new to tanking in ESO it is better they learn to tank correctly in ESO than to rely on a crutch and not learn to tank properly.

2. Outside of recent tests in Cyrdodiil, ESO is built on not having a cooldown on skills. The game is build on resource management.

In most MMORPGs, a tanks job is to tank the priority targets, not everything. Those are targets that are the most threatening. ESO is no different.

Non exactly true. Many mmorpg have aoe taunts. Where they don't other party members organize themselves for CC routines. In ESO: it is just a mess. I think it appeals to players who sucked at organized gameplay.
Even mechs are uninspired: some avoidance, some adds, some interrupt. If u wanna see a nice action based mmorpg that have really nice boss fight mechs look at tera.

In ESO even theorycrafting is a joke: someone with some credibility say something, and everybody copy him.

But I like it. Because vanilla WOW or Rift progression guilds were a fulltime job. But here I can relax

idk · October 2020

Astrid wrote: »

i’ve said this before but AoE taunt battle for dominance between 2-3 tanks in trials would be a sight to behold. Just soft taunt with blockade, CC and then you have time to poke/range taunt the big adds and chain any stragglers into stack. AoE not required.

If you mean groups wiping because a tank that never learned to tank properly to begin with used an AoE taunt.

Just looking at Rakhatt on HM where the OT has to hold multiple adds and keep taunt on them until they die has a high chance of dying or causing a wipe if they use an AoE taunt.

Even without HM on trash pulls where tanks need to hold multiple targets the use of an AoE taunt will often lead a ranged add being turned into the raid in time to shower the entire ride with their ranged AoE. Basically, a very good reason to kick that problematic tank out of the group.

Again, players need to learn to tank properly. Giving them a crutch will mean they will never learn.

idk · October 2020

holden_caulfield wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. All group content in ESO has been tanked successfully a great many times without an AoE taunt. This is because the game was designed not to need one. For players new to tanking in ESO it is better they learn to tank correctly in ESO than to rely on a crutch and not learn to tank properly.

2. Outside of recent tests in Cyrdodiil, ESO is built on not having a cooldown on skills. The game is build on resource management.

In most MMORPGs, a tanks job is to tank the priority targets, not everything. Those are targets that are the most threatening. ESO is no different.

Non exactly true. Many mmorpg have aoe taunts. Where they don't other party members organize themselves for CC routines. In ESO: it is just a mess. I think it appeals to players who sucked at organized gameplay.
Even mechs are uninspired: some avoidance, some adds, some interrupt. If u wanna see a nice action based mmorpg that have really nice boss fight mechs look at tera.

In ESO even theorycrafting is a joke: someone with some credibility say something, and everybody copy him.

But I like it. Because vanilla WOW or Rift progression guilds were a fulltime job. But here I can relax

Everything I have said is completely accurate. First off I never suggested other MMORPGs do not have AoE taunts so suggesting otherwise is a clear fabrication. I have been tanking in MMORPGs for a long time so I know other have AoE taunts.

Second, it is a very solid fact that a tank's priority is always on the strongest targets in the group. That is just plain common sense for tanking.

Third, every player in ESO is given the tools to deal with a little agro from less threatening mobs. Granted, some players do not know how to use those basic tools but that is a different problem altogether and why most decent players avoid using the GF. Also, Zos actually intended that players other than a tank will get agro on trash mobs, especially when the second wave activates.

So it does not seem the issue is with theorycrafting.

BlueRaven · October 2020

kathandira wrote: »

PvXGamer wrote: »

Give tanks one aoe taunt. Put it on a 20-30 second cooldown and give it a 10-12 meter range.

Create Templar Tank
Equip Tormentor Armor
Slot Explosive Charge
Enjoy AoE Taunt.

I don’t think there should be an aoe taunt. But... I am bothered by this recommendation as that this strategy can be used ONLY by templars, apparently?

This armor set should be modified so that all classes can use this set/strategy equally well, OR they need new sets for all the other classes so they can be as effective.

Thechuckage · October 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Don't forget the "L2P" squad...

I DO think an AOE taunt would improve this game. If you don't want to use it.... don't. use. it. It's that simple. Quit acting like its a personal attack any time someone else wants something you personally don't find appealing or feel is necessary.

Why might one want an AOE taunt? PUGS. Suggesting to find a group is not a solution, and to actively encourage players to avoid group finder is killing this game. PUGS are why I would like an AOE taunt. Do I need one? No. But my job would be a helluvuh lot easier if I had an AOE taunt, because DD's have fire ants in their pants and feel the burning urge to constantly charge before the tank before they have a chance to pull aggro. The other alternative is, as tank, is to constantly leave the group early to start pulling the next group.

And please explain how every fiber of this game is balanced around single target taunts??? Most balancing that might be required could be easily built into the skill itself. Adds during a boss fight? Most times spawn too far from the boss than a reasonable AOE taunt would be able to pull.

Have to disagree with you. It is not a simple "just dont slot the skill" Because those same impatient DPS will vote kick a tank NOT using the aoe taunt.

And do you really think the impatient ones wouldn't be running ahead an chain pulling adds to you? Or as someone else pointed out, a newbie tank who hasnt gotten the feel for the role? That scenario is going to work out suuuuuuuper well. /s

There are enough tools in the tanks abilities to handle the current game, AoE taunt isn't needed. Unironically, does need to learn to play as a tank

First of all, I have never ran with a DD that chain pulled, so I don't think that's an actual potential issue. I myself actually slot the warden pull on my healer, but I'm never yanking adds FROM the tank, Im pulling them to the established AOE pool, TO the tank.

My point didn't get across. Chain pulling in this instance means rushing ahead and grabbing a large amount of mobs with the intent of having the tank AoE strip them off. Essentially turning the tank into a walking taunt-post. Which is the most likely outcome.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Secondly, Im sure most of us agree our main expectation from a tank is being able to hold the boss without dying. Anything else is just an added bonus. If the tank isn't pulling adds or mobs, lure them to the tank. People need to re-adjust their expectations for support roles and quit expecting them/us to serve you.

I'm not seeing your point. We already tank the bosses. AOE taunt would just shift to also tanking all the adds in addition to the boss.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Thirdly, a newb tank would be adding pressure to the healer.... and as a heal main, I welcome the invitation to actually need to heal in group content. If anything, a struggling new tank would be encouraged to build a hardier tank, only improving their build as a result of the added pressure.

Its not a learn to play issue... people are entitled to play however they want. To say otherwise makes YOU the problem. And by your logic, this game would be horribly bland if all we ever got were things we needed, instead of things we wanted, things that would make the game more enjoyable.

Well, I could say the same. I don't want the AoE taunt, so is my opinion invalid? How will everyone get everything they want. What happens when the "wants" contradict another?
And the newbie tank that cant stay up even with a healer, or just gets all sorts of hate from the dps, what about them?

Frankly a AoE taunt would detract from the fun of tanking. Instead of maneuvering tactically, it just turns into a "hold everything until it gets burned down"

Paramedicus · October 2020

Add AoE taunt, make aoe CC skills useless, make DPS gameplay even more boring than it is.

Gud game design xD

Waiting for that auto chaining set btw and - hopefully in near future - auto-healing skills and afk-as-AI-bot mode.

Aznarb · October 2020

Paramedicus wrote: »

Add AoE taunt, make aoe CC skills useless, make DPS gameplay even more boring than it is.

Gud game design xD

Waiting for that auto chaining set btw and - hopefully in near future - auto-healing skills and afk-as-AI-bot mode.

TBF the auto-chain set already exist, it's called "swarm mother".
The necro armor is just a bad version of this monster set.
That said the new set look even more braindead.

For the @OP as a Tank, I don't want AoE Taunt, it just gonna make the gameplay boring. You don't have to taunt every thing you know ?
See a pack => Taunt all the dangerous while walking in their way => put an AOE CC so the other stay near you => pull all ranged into melee while DDs are enjoying big DPS AoE number.
Simple.

If you want AoE taunt that bad though, it's already possible.
Templar Tank + Tormentor set + Topling charge = efficient and pretty funny.
Meta set are good, but they're not mandatory for a good 90%+ of the content you know ?
Was playing mine with Tormentor + Yolna + Engine Gardien + dual frost stave = cleared every HM of 4 man content and Calglron trial.
I don't bring it in harder HM trial because you need a more serious build that support more your team. But that doesn't change the fact that such build work fine.

You can even do it in werewolf !

So, just go for it if you wanna play this way, it's a game, you can made so much more viable build that you think to clear this game content.
Also, little reminder = viable =/= meta.
If you don't do hard HM/Score pushing/Title farming, then you don't need to be meta if your build work.

HF.

UGotBenched91 · October 2020

I get why this wouldn’t fit in this game [snip] In most cases tank just has to aggro priority target and stand there and taunt. Tank and everyone else just have to avoid standing in red or whatever preset color you chose for your add on. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Fuzzybrick · October 2020

Tormentor set works great on my Templar werewolf tank. Very fun.

Eormenric · October 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Its not a learn to play issue... people are entitled to play however they want. To say otherwise makes YOU the problem. And by your logic, this game would be horribly bland if all we ever got were things we needed, instead of things we wanted, things that would make the game more enjoyable.

You know, that was the idea behind Gameshark. For every person that wanted infinite lives, max power, all levels unlocked, etc, they could get it. But you know what happened? The game became bland and boring fast. It turns out that putting in the effort for your desired outcome actually makes you feel fulfilled--because you earned it.

Also, un-quoted here, but said by you, if you like playing a healer in group content but rarely get to heal, you can play a hybrid healer. That's what I do for all veteran dungeon content (including most hardmodes). For trials, you can go full heals.

josiahva · October 2020

This is laughable. Why? Why do you need an AoE taunt? Throw down caltrops or elemental blockade(the ice blockade, caltrops, or Ash Cloud is preferable since they come with a nasty slow attached) or whatever other damaging ground based aoe as the tank...it WILL aggro the entire mob on you for a few seconds. This is a TRASH MOB we are talking about...even if you dont follow that up with a CC or a real taunt, the DPS should easily be capable of burning the trash before the snare runs out...and GOOD DPS will be able to kill the trash before they even lose the initial aggro on you.

Sure, you say...because pugs have bad DPS....ok...so they have bad DPS, in that case, as a tank you are better off running some damaging sets and skills and using damage to keep the aggro of the mob, only taunting the strays...I use this method myself often in base game dungeons. If you do initial AOE damage to a mob, and then follow that up with more constant AOE damage...the mob will for the most part stay aggroed on you...it doesnt have to be huge amounts of damage...but the equivalent of 6-10kDPS each will do it...at that point, for DPS have to be doing significantly more to grab aggro back...and if they are doing significantly more, then that isnt needed and the mob melts without you adding AOE damage.

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

I get why this wouldn’t fit in this game [snip] In most cases tank just has to aggro priority target and stand there and taunt. Tank and everyone else just have to avoid standing in red or whatever preset color you chose for your add on. [snip]

I agree this game is not terribly difficult...but if that is really what you think a tank does, you:

1. Only see lazy tanks that do the bare minimum.
2. have no conception of the role at all.

As an example...when on my defensive setup, we are going to use vCT as an example in a pug, the gargoyle fight:

1. The first thing the group does is jump down into the pit, I start with a taunt on the boss, pierce armor.
2. I then swap bars to my backbar resto staff...this procs Imperium, shielding the group(though they don't really need it just at this moment.
3. While on the backbar, I cast combat prayer(often easier for me to get everyone in the aoe since I am directly across the boss from them).
4. I follow that up with orbs, then swap back to front bar.
5. I cast igneous shield...sometimes followed by bone shield.
6. At this point I hold block as I start rotating around and chaining in all the imps.
7. Shortly after this, the imps are dead or almost dead and the boss flies up into the air...we all run out of the pit.
8. I now grab the 2 hander ad(usually I just use chains as a pseudo taunt since its free since he cat be pulled).
9. I again swap to backbar, proccing imperium and casting combat prayer as I manuever the ad away from the group in the corner and swapping back to front bar.
10. Usually in about 15 seconds the 2 hander dies and the boss comes down from the air...I start heading back to the pit but I stop in the stairs...this is because of the boss's "machine gun" move, the stairs helps with line of sight. I now make sure to swap to back bar...solely to proc imperium to give the group a shield, swap back to front bar to follow that up with igneous and bone shield as well, then head back to the center of the pit to rinse and repeat until the boss is dead.

What I am getting at here is that the tank does a lot more than "taunt and block" its all about battlefield control, reaction, and yes...even rotation to a minor degree...but rotation based on events, not timed. Depending on the content, and what sets I am wearing, I may not be running shields at all...maybe I am running damage...in which case, I do a true DPS rotation while taunt weaving...the same holds true if I am wearing healing sets...then I focus on off healing as I tank, using a resto staff to proc redistributor and/or battalion defender(redistributor works very well when combined with Puncturing Remedy, though if you want to wear all 3 you have to sacrifice a monster set, so its generally better to proc it with resto staff backbar, or vigor or something like that). Anyway, tanking doesn't have to be boring and limited, its whatever you can do to help the group most...and make no mistake...tanks are the only true hybrids in this game....which means you can do anything. You may not be able to do it well, but you can do it, all that is needed is a willingness to change your focus as conditions and content changes.

CrashTest · October 2020

Kurat wrote: »

People want to get rid of weaving and animation cancelling, global auction house aoe taunt and etc because other mmos have it. Then why dont you go back to Wow

kathandira wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Except there's already an AoE taunt.

Paramedicus · October 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

TBF the auto-chain set already exist, it's called "swarm mother".

Yea, but u need to waste monster set, block to activate, also it's single target and it doesnt activate on longest ranges. so there is lotta trade offs. This set works as -far from ideal- solution for classes w/o good pull ability.

new pulling set: u 'waste' 1 bar which isnt too bad + skill slot. While it isnt game breaking (u wont pull elites) it makes soft CC usueless. So from gameplay perspective the question is: why you would make whole type of skills useless just to introduce one item set?

Anyway, i wonder if this set gonna be popular. I prolly will be too lazy to swap builds just for pulling trash with it.. but on other hand, if DDs/heal can forget 'bout CCs and focus even more on AoE dmg - then it may be worth using it (even if takes any fun out).

Grila · October 2020

Lets talk about what an aoe-taunt is for: the tank gets the aggro of all mobs.
Is it usefull? No, its only an easy way to taunt multiple enemies at once.
Why isn’t it usefull to taunt multiple enemies at once? Well, cause it isn’t needed.

I played tank in some other MMOs, which have aoe-taunts so lets see what the’re needed for in this games (hint: the MMOs I’m talkin about are SWTOR and Star Trek Online):
First: in both MMOs aggro works different than in ESO, as you need to do a decent amount of damage as a tank which the game then translates in „aggro“. As you are tank and no DD, you naturally do less damage, so you need to look more dangerous than your fellow damagedealers. Therefore we have taunts. Single taunts (afaik there is no real one in Star Trek Online) and aoe taunts to multiply the overall(!) aggro you produced by simply doin damage. And while you try to look as provocative as possible your DDs and Healer try to look as innocent as possible using anti-aggro Skills or passives to get rid of too much attention from the mobs.
What you can’t do in both games is play reactive and activly take one mob away from your DD and keep it until its dead, cause all taunts have a way longer cooldown than the are active: 6 sek active vs. 15 sek cooldown, 45 sek cooldown, even 1-2 minutes cooldown. Instead you need to currently hold up your aggro, so the mob is convinced you’re the one to smash.
So taunts in this games _with_ aoe-taunts are’nt meant to „get the aggro of all mobs“ but to „hope to get the aggro of most mobs most of the time“.
But this assumes, that it isn’t needed to have aggro of all mobs, isn’t it? Cause DDs and Healers have their own ways to deal with enemy aggro: anti-aggro Skills, passives, shields, heals, running away or simply killin it.

How does this translate to ESO?
Well, lets assume, we have a group of mobs, say first group Fungal Grotto, with which DDs and Healers should be able to deal on their own. Why should I aoe-taunt (or even single taunt) mobs with which my DDs and Healer are very fine? I only need to pick the hard-hitting ones or maybe from time to time grab one who’s hittin a DD with low life (which is probably cause he pulls aggro before you’re even in the dungeon, he stands in red, he has to low HP, he uses no buff-food, your Healer is a DD,…).
And assume, we have a group of newbie DDs with low HP, low damage and a newbie Healer with just 2 heals which he uses only once a minute. Yeah I surely could aoe-taunt that group (we assume no cooldown as usual in ESO so 100% uptime) til I’m too old to hold my sword and board, but although I’m the tank, Its not my duty to backpack 3 people who aren’t able to do their job. It’s called group content for a reason, cause everyone needs to do his part.
And for examples in raid-content: first group vSS, never tauntet other mobs than sword+board, fury, mage; trash mobs vMoL, never tauntet other mobs than zweihander, sword+board, bowguy, mage. You see: if your DDs and Healers know what they‘re doin, you really don‘t need an aoe-taunt.

So the real question is:
should we allow (or partly force) Tanks to simply taunt 100% uptime all mobs or should we allow (or partly force) DDs and Healers to learn how to do their job properly?

I‘m not sayin that you can’t be a newbie in this game, but you shouldn’t aspect just because your tank can take off all damage from you, you just can stand there admiring the beauty of growing gras. IF you’re playin DD or IF you‘re playin Healer you should also _want_ to play a DD or Healer. If not, you surely shouldn‘t do group-content at all.
If I’m doin PUGs - and I always tank in em - I’m doin my job. The only thing I change here and there apart from doin Raids are adding some brain-afk-dmg-skills (like Standard of Might or Ice Comet), as I’m not good at doin decent „rotation-dps“ or add some special sets like Battallion Defender or Mark of the Imperial to help my group the way a tank can help. Also I explain mechanics If needed (or wanted).
Yes, maybe you need to be patient when doin PUGs this way, but it ensures that over time we get better DDs and better Healers who can actually do their job, who are good at it.

And this translates to no aoe-taunt needed, cause then no new player needs to learn his job anymore just blame the tank for not knowing how to aoe-taunt.

AlnilamE · October 2020

kathandira wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

More like: "The game mechanics are designed around it not existing, and introducing it would require an overhaul of all group content"

Yet. it does exist.

kathandira wrote: »

Create Templar Tank
Equip Tormentor Armor
Slot Explosive Charge
Enjoy AoE Taunt.

I use this, and it is great! Makes gathering enemies far faster, and much easier.

If you're a Templar.

Also, I note that you said "faster and much easier". That was my point. If this became widely used, they'd have to adjust the game around it.

kathandira · October 2020

holden_caulfield wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. All group content in ESO has been tanked successfully a great many times without an AoE taunt. This is because the game was designed not to need one. For players new to tanking in ESO it is better they learn to tank correctly in ESO than to rely on a crutch and not learn to tank properly.

2. Outside of recent tests in Cyrdodiil, ESO is built on not having a cooldown on skills. The game is build on resource management.

In most MMORPGs, a tanks job is to tank the priority targets, not everything. Those are targets that are the most threatening. ESO is no different.

Non exactly true. Many mmorpg have aoe taunts. Where they don't other party members organize themselves for CC routines. In ESO: it is just a mess. I think it appeals to players who sucked at organized gameplay.
Even mechs are uninspired: some avoidance, some adds, some interrupt. If u wanna see a nice action based mmorpg that have really nice boss fight mechs look at tera.

In ESO even theorycrafting is a joke: someone with some credibility say something, and everybody copy him.

But I like it. Because vanilla WOW or Rift progression guilds were a fulltime job. But here I can relax

Agreed. ESO is easily the least demanding MMO in regards to mechanics, and skill. Since this is basically the EZ Mode MMO already, I don't see a problem with implementing an AoE Taunt.

kathandira · October 2020

Paramedicus wrote: »

Add AoE taunt, make aoe CC skills useless, make DPS gameplay even more boring than it is.

Gud game design xD

Waiting for that auto chaining set btw and - hopefully in near future - auto-healing skills and afk-as-AI-bot mode.

Auto Chain - Swarm Mother Monster Set. Simply hold block
Auto Healing - There are a few, but off top of my head, Leeching Plate.

kathandira · October 2020

Paramedicus wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

TBF the auto-chain set already exist, it's called "swarm mother".

Yea, but u need to waste monster set, block to activate, also it's single target and it doesnt activate on longest ranges. so there is lotta trade offs. This set works as -far from ideal- solution for classes w/o good pull ability.

Pending on your build, it really isn't a waste at all.
Blocking to activate is actually doing two things at once, rather than only 1, so it is more beneficial than not using it in this case. And it's range is just as long as Silver Leash.

holden_caulfield · October 2020

idk wrote: »

holden_caulfield wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. All group content in ESO has been tanked successfully a great many times without an AoE taunt. This is because the game was designed not to need one. For players new to tanking in ESO it is better they learn to tank correctly in ESO than to rely on a crutch and not learn to tank properly.

2. Outside of recent tests in Cyrdodiil, ESO is built on not having a cooldown on skills. The game is build on resource management.

In most MMORPGs, a tanks job is to tank the priority targets, not everything. Those are targets that are the most threatening. ESO is no different.

Non exactly true. Many mmorpg have aoe taunts. Where they don't other party members organize themselves for CC routines. In ESO: it is just a mess. I think it appeals to players who sucked at organized gameplay.
Even mechs are uninspired: some avoidance, some adds, some interrupt. If u wanna see a nice action based mmorpg that have really nice boss fight mechs look at tera.

In ESO even theorycrafting is a joke: someone with some credibility say something, and everybody copy him.

But I like it. Because vanilla WOW or Rift progression guilds were a fulltime job. But here I can relax

Everything I have said is completely accurate. First off I never suggested other MMORPGs do not have AoE taunts so suggesting otherwise is a clear fabrication. I have been tanking in MMORPGs for a long time so I know other have AoE taunts.

Second, it is a very solid fact that a tank's priority is always on the strongest targets in the group. That is just plain common sense for tanking.

Third, every player in ESO is given the tools to deal with a little agro from less threatening mobs. Granted, some players do not know how to use those basic tools but that is a different problem altogether and why most decent players avoid using the GF. Also, Zos actually intended that players other than a tank will get agro on trash mobs, especially when the second wave activates.

So it does not seem the issue is with theorycrafting.

Ok, you never played other mmorpgs, I guess.
Most pull in Wow or RIft were based on taunts and cc. Anyone that were not a tank would have been 1 shotted. And dont forget that in all trinity based mmorpg, only the healer had heals.

You said : "In most MMORPGs, a tanks job is to tank the priority targets, not everything"
that's simply not true in all trinity mmorpg

holden_caulfield · October 2020

I can also add that in every mmorpg when tank died was almost surely a wipe.
Here they are trying to make dds feel important. As a matter of fact DD in eso decide what healer and tank should do and equip

idk · October 2020

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kathandira wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I feel it is more important for a player to actually learn to tank instead of dealing with a crutch which is all an AoE taunt in ESO is as we clearly do not actually need it by any means.

Thing is, if Zos added an actual AoE taunt then we would have tanks that never actually learned to tank well because they went EZ mode. If they ever wanted to get serious about tanking and get into challenging trials they would quickly find they need to quickly learn to hold groups of NPCs by only using the single-target tanks or get kicked from the raid group for being a bad tank. All because they did not develop the actual player skill.

josiahva · October 2020

kathandira wrote: »

Paramedicus wrote: »

Add AoE taunt, make aoe CC skills useless, make DPS gameplay even more boring than it is.

Gud game design xD

Waiting for that auto chaining set btw and - hopefully in near future - auto-healing skills and afk-as-AI-bot mode.

Auto Chain - Swarm Mother Monster Set. Simply hold block
Auto Healing - There are a few, but off top of my head, Leeching Plate.

Swarm Mother is garbage. It does zero good because the mob has to be aggroed on you to start with...which means you have to taunt it directly(ranged mobs are unlikely to be hit by initial AOE aggro skills)...in which case you might as well just pull it to begin with using chains, leash, gate, etc.

When it comes to taunting the mob...you can already do so without an aoe taunt if you want to....hence, no need for one, just run up to each ad and stab it...easy, if you need more time to get them all, throw down caltrops(50% slow) or Ash Cloud(70% slow) etc etc. Lets say that you have an AOE taunt and get used to using it all the time...guess what happens when you get to actual difficult content? You die and cause the group to wipe because you simply do not know which ads to taunt and which ones to leave alone...this also applies to some bosses. Can you imagine a clueless tank who spams an AOE taunt on the ogre twins in vSCP?(yes, I know that you wouldn't HAVE to use an AOE taunt if you had one, but this is the type of tanking such a thing would encourage).

I taunt entire mobs all the time and I feel zero need to have an AoE taunt. I do NOT taunt everything all the time...but sometimes I do(more often in pugs where I am unsure whether the DPS can burn everything fast enough)...between AOE aggro skills like caltrops, rooting skills, and pulls it simply is not needed...ever, arguing for it is just arguing for lazy gameplay and only tries to pigeonhole the tanking role even further than it already is.

hexentb16_ESO · October 2020

Tormentor enables this with the use of some abilities. Problem is that not enough classes have a direct damage based aoe.

mairwen85 · October 2020

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

Tormentor enables this with the use of some abilities. Problem is that not enough classes have a direct damage based aoe.

(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When you deal direct damage with a Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, you gain 3642 Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance and taunt the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds.

https://eso-sets.com/set/tormentor

Its not about the AoE, it's about the Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability--you're right that not all classes have one of these, but there are out of class options (weapon and guild for example) and sub-class options (werewolf).

However, what makes this viable as AoE Taunt is when the ability used to proc it has splash damage or an AoE component, like explosive charge , dragon leap, brutal pounce, etc

josiahva · October 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

Tormentor enables this with the use of some abilities. Problem is that not enough classes have a direct damage based aoe.

(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When you deal direct damage with a Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, you gain 3642 Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance and taunt the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds.

https://eso-sets.com/set/tormentor

Its not about the AoE, it's about the Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability--you're right that not all classes have one of these, but there are out of class options (weapon and guild for example) and sub-class options (werewolf).

However, what makes this viable as AoE Taunt is when the ability used to proc it has splash damage or an AoE component, like explosive charge , dragon leap, brutal pounce, etc

Tormentor would be a fun set to play with...if the 3 and 4 piece weren't such garbage. If 3 and 4 were max stam and max magicka respectively I would definitely farm it. As a tank, the very LAST thing I need is healing received...even if I am getting no heals from the healer I am perfectly able to outheal any incoming damage. To make a real difference in healing received you would have to have 4 bonuses...below that...you just double cast(or cast 2 different heals) instead if you get that low on health.

kathandira · October 2020

josiahva wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

Tormentor enables this with the use of some abilities. Problem is that not enough classes have a direct damage based aoe.

(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When you deal direct damage with a Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, you gain 3642 Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance and taunt the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds.

https://eso-sets.com/set/tormentor

Its not about the AoE, it's about the Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability--you're right that not all classes have one of these, but there are out of class options (weapon and guild for example) and sub-class options (werewolf).

However, what makes this viable as AoE Taunt is when the ability used to proc it has splash damage or an AoE component, like explosive charge , dragon leap, brutal pounce, etc

Tormentor would be a fun set to play with...if the 3 and 4 piece weren't such garbage. If 3 and 4 were max stam and max magicka respectively I would definitely farm it. As a tank, the very LAST thing I need is healing received...even if I am getting no heals from the healer I am perfectly able to outheal any incoming damage. To make a real difference in healing received you would have to have 4 bonuses...below that...you just double cast(or cast 2 different heals) instead if you get that low on health.

It works well in 4 mans, and Normal Trials. But those 3 and 4 piece bonuses hurt pretty bad in Vet Trials.

Paramedicus · October 2020

kathandira wrote: »

Auto Healing - There are a few, but off top of my head, Leeching Plate.

which class have this cool skill leeching plate?

kathandira wrote: »

Pending on your build, it really isn't a waste at all.
Blocking to activate is actually doing two things at once, rather than only 1, so it is more beneficial than not using it in this case. And it's range is just as long as Silver Leash.

If u cant wear SoB then it is wasted 4 of 5 times.
I never used it in pve but it sounds like lotta perm blocking just to pull some trash (if it decides to actually hit you instead of teammate). Sounds bit unreliable or source consuming (u always need to taunt and keep block to pull). Idk, not that silver leash is great.

starkerealm · October 2020

josiahva wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

Tormentor enables this with the use of some abilities. Problem is that not enough classes have a direct damage based aoe.

(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When you deal direct damage with a Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, you gain 3642 Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance and taunt the enemy to attack you for 15 seconds.

https://eso-sets.com/set/tormentor

Its not about the AoE, it's about the Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability--you're right that not all classes have one of these, but there are out of class options (weapon and guild for example) and sub-class options (werewolf).

However, what makes this viable as AoE Taunt is when the ability used to proc it has splash damage or an AoE component, like explosive charge , dragon leap, brutal pounce, etc

Tormentor would be a fun set to play with...if the 3 and 4 piece weren't such garbage. If 3 and 4 were max stam and max magicka respectively I would definitely farm it. As a tank, the very LAST thing I need is healing received...even if I am getting no heals from the healer I am perfectly able to outheal any incoming damage. To make a real difference in healing received you would have to have 4 bonuses...below that...you just double cast(or cast 2 different heals) instead if you get that low on health.

No, no, you're thinking of health recovery. Health recovery is hot garbage. Healing taken isn't exciting, but it does help you stay in the fight.