OmenRIP wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Use both!

Inferno Staff on front bar, with a skill loadout which is focused on single target damage. Change the Glyph to Shock Damage
Lightning Staff on back bar with a skill loadout which is focused on AoE damage. Change Glyph to Weapon Damage

Great idea! Although being that I paid so much for the inferno staff that I was afraid to add a glyph to it. In addition, after looting at least 25 glyphs, I’ve never seen a Weapon Damage one. I’ll have to check the guild vendors to see if they sell them on a high quality. I’m guessing that I only want to use gold glyphs on both staffs if I can obtain them.

OmenRIP wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Use both!

Inferno Staff on front bar, with a skill loadout which is focused on single target damage. Change the Glyph to Shock Damage
Lightning Staff on back bar with a skill loadout which is focused on AoE damage. Change Glyph to Weapon Damage

Great idea! Although being that I paid so much for the inferno staff that I was afraid to add a glyph to it. In addition, after looting at least 25 glyphs, I’ve never seen a Weapon Damage one. I’ll have to check the guild vendors to see if they sell them on a high quality. I’m guessing that I only want to use gold glyphs on both staffs if I can obtain them.

You can use blue, purple, or gold gylphs on any quality item. But I would always shoot for Gold since the Kuta required to make it is relatively cheap.

Weapon Damage will require the "Power" rune stone. It generally doesn't drop often, but anyone who has leveled up Enchanting can easily make it for you.

Didn’t know about the Power rune stone. Is that something that I might be for sale in a guild store? Or do I need to get it made?

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The Lightning Staff synergizes with a Pet Sorc setup a lot better than Inferno, @OmenRIP.

I think I understand, but why does the inferno staff go for so much more money? Is it the magicka return? Unfortunately I bought both before learning about their uses LOL.

Fire staffs give a boost to single target damage, and lighting staffs give a boost to AOE damage. If you are in an organized group, people tend to build for single target damage as killing the boss is the limiting factor on Time/Score. Virtually every magic DPS will run a fire staff front bar for boss fights, those that are min/maxing will often opt to switch to a front bar lighting staff for trash pulls.

They cost a lot because its essentially the 2nd best option for a lot of builds, but significantly easier to obtain. Most end game builds for magic DPS will pair a trial set (Siroria or False god) with Mothers Sorrow. Mother's sorrow is the best way to stack crit, and crit is king for PVE DPS.

To understand why the staff is specifically so desirable, you need to look at how magic DPS build for end game. Typically, its 5 pieces trial set (front bar and three body/jewelry pieces), 5 piece mother sorrow (body/jewelry), 2 piece monster set (head+shoulders), 1 piece VMA staff (back bar).

The problem with the optimal setup described above is that it requires you to get a fire staff for the trial set you want to run, which can be an RNG nightmare, so a lot of people opt to swap their two 5 piece sets. In other words, they front bar Mothers Sorrow, and run the Trial set on their body. The difference between the two is very small, so a lot of people just opt to pay for the MS fire staff and be done with the grind. But end of the day, it's really the only magic DPS weapon that can be sold that is considered Meta (or really close to it).

Now at your level/experience and considering you are playing solo, a lot of that probably goes out the window (or over your head ).

You very well may want to consider actually running double lighting, or has others have suggest, front bar one and back bar the other. Lighting staffs to make very good front bar weapons for a lot of solo content, because you can simply heavy attack and do a lot of AOE damage with them. You will likely do the most Single target damage solo with a back bar lighting and a front bar fire, but double lighting is honestly easier on the fingers and might be a better option most of the time. If you do decide to join a group, definitely front bar the fire staff.

Also, stated, but 7/5 does nothing. You want to work towards a 2 piece monster set from one of the vet dungeons (or golden vendor). In the meantime, I would run two piece willpower for a bit more max magic. If you are looking at maximizing DPS, you may also want to take a crack an Maelstrom Arena (solo instance). The staffs are the best option for your back bar weapon. They recently changed it so you can get the weapons even on normal (veteran drop perfected versions, but the difference is negligible on the staff). Maelstrom Arena is also a great instance to actually learn to play.

OmenRIP wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Use both!

Inferno Staff on front bar, with a skill loadout which is focused on single target damage. Change the Glyph to Shock Damage
Lightning Staff on back bar with a skill loadout which is focused on AoE damage. Change Glyph to Weapon Damage

Great idea! Although being that I paid so much for the inferno staff that I was afraid to add a glyph to it. In addition, after looting at least 25 glyphs, I’ve never seen a Weapon Damage one. I’ll have to check the guild vendors to see if they sell them on a high quality. I’m guessing that I only want to use gold glyphs on both staffs if I can obtain them.

You can use blue, purple, or gold gylphs on any quality item. But I would always shoot for Gold since the Kuta required to make it is relatively cheap.

Weapon Damage will require the "Power" rune stone. It generally doesn't drop often, but anyone who has leveled up Enchanting can easily make it for you.

Didn’t know about the Power rune stone. Is that something that I might be for sale in a guild store? Or do I need to get it made?

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Definitely start on normal Maelstrom, but veteran is perfectly doable at your CP level. The mechanics are identical, but they will one shot you on vet if you dont follow them. Normal is a bit of a face roll once you get the feel for it. Once you can beat normal with 1-2 deaths, try vet.

I wont go into crazy specifics, but assuming you are running two pets, there are two skills that are essentially a must. First is crit surge. This is your main heal over time, keep it up 100%, and it also gives you a damage boost. It's a good way to learn to manage buff priorities. Second is shield (hardened Ward). Essentially, treat your shield as your health bar. Keep it up at all times. The pet morphs I would recommend for two pet builds are the Volatile Familiar (aoe damage, cast on cooldown) and Twilight Matriarch (burst heal, cast when health below 50%). The best ultimate for most of the arena is the Destro Ultimate.

Tri Pots work great, I would run Max Health+Magic food, and I would probably suggest at least one healthy glyph on your armor (rest are magic) and one magic regen glyph on your jewelry (rest are spell damage). Take it slow, look at your death recaps so you can adjust, and dont hesitate to google some walkthroughs on mechanics. No reason not to use the sigils when you are learning, either. General Kill Priorities of adds are Healer>Archer>Mage>Melee. Come back if you get stuck.

El_Borracho wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Congrats, that's the combo you want (with the exception for a Restro on backbar instead of Lightning in some PvP scenarios).

With the Destruction Staff passive "Ancient Knowledge" fully ranked, the Flame Staff increases your damage done with single target abilities by 8% and the Lightning Staff increases your damage done with area of effect abilities by 8% plus the added dmg bonus to lightning dmg from class passives. So use single target skills on the Inferno Staff bara (I have it on bar 1) and AoE skills on the Lightning Staff bar. Try to fit 5/5 MS, crits are key DPS in PvE content, plus self healing with Surge is crit chance dependent.

Thanks for the detailed post! On my main bar I have the inferno staff and Daedric Prey. On my backup bar I have the Muck Minder shock and Blockade of Storms. On both bars I have Crystal Frags and Force Pulse. 2 slots on each bar taken for pets

I’m not familiar with Surge.

2 things:
(1) Run a 5-1-1 armor setup to take advantage of the three armor passives and get the Undaunted passives. Something like 5 Necro body pieces, heavy monster helm, medium shoulders.
(2) You should really run Maelstrom Arena to get an inferno and/or lightning staff to back bar. Do it on normal as the perfected only adds penetration. Your DPS will bump significantly.

Like others have said, lightning works best with sorc builds running Necro gear and pets, as well as the [gasp] heavy attack sorc builds. Inferno works better on mag characters like magblade, mag DK, magplars, etc.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

delenn35 wrote: »

Hello...

I've been following this post with a great deal of interest... I'm a magden not sorc, however I'm also using two Mother's Sorrow - I have the inferno on the front and lightning on the back. Although I'm a magden I've picked up so many tips from reading all of this.

I play on PC, however, I started on XBox and played for about 4 years there before starting all over again.

After about 6 months, I changed to the elite Xbox controller with the back button attachments and let me tell you, it made a world of difference. It took a while to get used to it but after I did, there was no going back. I understand your frustration with having to switch bars but know that as soon as you get that back button attachment you will notice a world of difference.

Hi!

I must have read your mind 🙂. Yesterday I got my PlayStation Back Button add on and boy does it make a difference changing bars! It’s seems to react quickly, and I don’t have to take my thumb off the left directional pad when I flip bars. It makes a fantastic difference! Of course, im sure it’s nowhere near a 3rd party dedicated programmable controller, but at $40 it was well worth the money.

I also set the right switch to potions so I can drink them on the fly, but I wish it had some kind of setting that only sends a short press. In the “heat of battle”, sometimes I press too long, which brings up the assignment wheel. Of course I’m still getting use to it, so I hope I get better over time 😄.

One thing I didn’t like is that it won’t work if you have a skin for the controller. I’ve used skins for years for various reasons, the main one being the “grippy” grip they provide. Other than that though, I feel it’s well spent money to make my mechanics much more precise and comfortable.

Thanks for the response!

I bought that attachment for XB1 controller and it really changed things for me as well. I use the left bumper for bar swap so it stays on the same hand and I originally used potions on the right but i found it more useful to map synnergies there because you can hit synnergies without breaking rotation that way. Potions you are hitting every 45 seconds, but in good trial groups you can hit synnergies every 3-4 seconds and having that double button press for it (y+b for me and circle+triangle for you) can cause you to fumble especially if you are on that part of your rotation.

What you might want to consider doing is to remap your d-pad and make either the down button or right button on the dpad use your pots instead that way your thumb travels the least distance to get the potion and right back to the thumb stick. On XB1 the up on our dpad for pots makes sense and it’s easy to hit for us. To do that you would have to change it through your consoles accessibility settings I believe. Haven’t had a PS in a while so my memory is a little hazy. You may need to change this setting back for other games. You may also be able to save it as a default for particular games. Again memory is hazy so I can’t tell you for sure, but for sure you can remap the buttons on the dpad through the console itself.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

Thank you for your fantastic post! I read quite a lot on this forum, but it’s great to have a detailed explanation like yours. It’s VERY helpful to me since I only play solo PvE.

I just completed Maelstrom (I’m assuming normal, there was no choice when I entered). Just wow! It took me some time to figure out what I needed to do on each level. The 2 worst levels for me were the ice pad one and the 3 pillar one. I spent at least 5 minutes hitting the boss on the pillar level, wondering why it’s health never decreased 🙂. I thought the last level was comparatively easy; easy meaning that I didnt die completing it😄. Also, with the stupid PS4 controller, my Tri-Pots got unassigned for some reason. Took me several deaths to notice it (I mostly use the Tri-Pots primarily for magicka refueling). The twilight handles almost all of my healing.

Since I died about 30 times during the arena, I guess I got a long way to go until I get to the veteran level 😂

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Sorry to quote myself, but I wanted to give you my current load out to see what you think, then make a couple of comments.

PRIMARY (single target)

Infernal Staff MS (gold) with gold shock glyph ( suggested by another kind responder to my thread).

* Force Pulse 4
* Crystal Frags 4
* Daedric Prey 4
* Twilight, Volatile, and Storm Atronach 4

SECONDARY (AOE)

Muck Minder MS (purple) with gold glyph of increase weapon and spell damage 435 for 5 seconds)

* Force Pulse 4
* Power Surge 4
* Blockade of Storms 4
* Twilight, Volatile, and Storm Atronach 4

I’m only showing you this is I changed my Muck Minder to Weapon Damage since 99% of my healing comes from the twilight. I’m also not sure where I can place the Ultimate Elemental Storms 4, since I only would want to use it for AOE, but many times my ultimate is not enough to cast (Atronach seems to do well in keeping the boss draining for a few seconds). The AOE Blockade of Storms seems better to me, especially when all those small spiders attack, since I can easily cast it multiple time while running in a circle to kill them all without stopping to use my staff to fire at them.

I know I have problems with many of the mechanics of the game, especially switching the bars and using the potions due to the stock PS4 controller. I am getting a back button attachment for the PS4 controller, but that won’t help me if my load outs are wrong.

Thanks for any input you may have.

I am not quite sure what I am looking at here. Are you saying your front bar is single target and your back bar is AOE? If so, I would adjust your back bar to be, ground AOE/buffs, and front bar single target. No reason to double bar Force Pulse or the Storm Attro.

My advice on bars for a farily easy mode Maelstrom. Good job on getting normal done, but definitely run it a few times to make sure you can identify each stage mechanics. They all have one.

Front Bar (fire staff):

-Force Pulse (main spammable)
-Crystal Frags (burst damage, only cast when instant proc)
-Hardened Ward (shield, keep it up)
-Familiar (AOE DOT, cast on cooldown)
-Twilight (burst heal, cast below 50% health)
-Meteor/Strom Atro (Either way, dont actually use them. Just slot for the passives)

Back Bar (lighting staff):
-Unstable Wall (Primary gound AOE, this or one if its morphs should be on every magic DPS bars without exception, I think unstable is better in the arena, it explodes if you recast early)
-**Liquid Lighting/Lighting Flood (Second Ground AOE, Lighting flood is actually probably better these days for the arena)
-Crit Surge (Heal over time and Spell damage buff)
-Familiar
-Twillight
-Destro Ult (main AOE ultimate)


Daedric Prey is just unnecessary in the arena. Things die to fast for it to matter. This is sort of an intermediate build.

People that are good at the arena dont run two pets. They drop familiar and actually run the damage morph of twilight. They rely on crit surge for healing. It is plenty once you get the hang of it. The best players dont even bother with a shield. If you drop familiar, the makes room for either trap or channeled acceleration on your back bar (CA is better IMO). The buff you are after is minor force. That leaves room on the front bar for really a flex spot. You could slot Bound Aegis for better raw stats. Endless fury for an execute (also good for magic return), or boundless storm for a bit of AOE, mobility, and Defense (i like boundless the best personally).

You could also go the other direction and front bar a lighting staff and go full on heavy attack/double pet build. This makes resources a non issue. You would drop both both force pulse and frags. Heavy attacks are the main sorce of damage. That would leave room for boundless storm and channeled acceleration. The playstyle is very easy and, you will be very tanky, but the damage wont be earth shattering (still plenty). I like to recommend more of a middle ground approach because I think it is better practice, but there is no easier way to beat Veteran than a heavy attack double pet sorc.

The main idea of the arena, buff between rounds (crit surge, channeled acceleration, boundless), camp portals as they spawn with ground dots (liquid lighting, blockade) and murder things as they come to you. Crit surge is always your number one priority, never let it drop. Shields are second priority. Third is probably Channeled acceleration*, then its your AOEs (Familiar, liquid and blockade). Get in the habit of casting them all together, so you know they are always up. Save Ults for bosses and for tougher mobs. If all of the above is ticking, you are either heavy attacking with a lighting staff (heavy attack build) or you are light attack weaving force pulse and crystal frags (but only when it procs for an instant cast).

*Channeled acceleration is from the psijic line. CA and Rearming Trap (fighter guild) both give Minor Force which is a very strong damage buff. The psijic line is a bit of a grind, just fair warning. In the arena, casting it between round should be enough as long as you always cast it between rounds. If you opt for Trap, treat it like your ground dots. Try to place it on portals. Generally, you dont recast either during the actual round, just between.

** I would either run unstable wall and lighting flood (both 10 seconds) or elemental blockade and liquid lighting (both I believe 14 seconds). That way you can always cast together. The first pair is better for the arena IMO.

Oreyn_Bearclaw, again you astound me with your very explanatory detailed post!

The reason I have the dups on my bars is twofold-I started my character that way, and I all the time have trouble changing bars during fights (again, damn PS4 controller). I’m hoping that my new back button attachment for my DualShock will help me with changing bars quickly and accurately.

About the ultimate Atro, I thought (and I’ve admitted many times that even though I’m now CP357, I’m a total noob setting up my bars) that the atro would disappear when I changed bars, just like my pets too. So I tried in the beginning of my character to set up dups do that even if the bar fails to change I can still use my offensive skills. I had my pets act as distractions, volatile familiar special and healing. It’s worked for me solo to about CP350, even doing some overland bosses. I’d let the pets attack the boss, all the while keeping the special constantly going, while using the twilight to heal the volatile and itself. Even if I had full health, I’d still use the twilights healing. I can’t remember which realm, but the lion boss I took down this way. It took me 15 minutes, but the pets got boss low enough for me to use Crystal frags to finish it off. Same thing for that boss with the bear adds. I took care of the adds while my pets slowly whittled down the boss over several minutes until I went in for the coup de grace so to speak. This is the main reason that I now 600 pots of tri healing potions. Once I got my mechanics down, I only used the potions for mana replenishment and the occasional heal in a hard fight. I’m sure many magsorc’s are laughing their heads off, but it worked for me in the very beginning so I stuck with I knew worked.

Everything changed when I got the 2 mother’s Sorrow staffs and the Mother’s Sorrow armor mixed with Necropotence. For one thing the staffs look almost identical so I would get confused which bar I was on (before this my main hand backup was a two handed sword as I said before I was leveling up 2 handed). Then I read that Daedric Prey increases the strength attacks of your pets, so I put it on my main bar to keep my pets attacking a little harder while I did some damage with my other single target/AOE spells.

It’s really hard for me to break a habit that’s been working for me for 6 months but I wanted to try. I’m sure I waded to fast into the ocean of skill/spell/setups. I really got confused 🙂

On the appearance of the 2 MS staffs, I’m thinking of doing an outfit change to give me 2 different staff looks to make it easier to tell which bar I’m on.

I’ve never used a Damage shield spell since I relied on my armor to protect me. I wore all heavy (at 50 skill) at the beginning. Most mobs would Zerg rush me and I could stand it until my volatile special killed them or my AOE did. I’m grateful that you suggested a shield, since my level mobs are getting harder and harder for my light armor to deal with.

I’m on the 3rd quest of the psijic line and you’re sure right about a grind. I’m on my 2nd quest to find those 9 portals. Who ever thought up this psijic quest progression should be shot 😂

I’m definitely going to try out all your suggestions that I can (except psijic) and see if I can get my muscle memory changed again 😄

Thanks again for you excellent critique and suggestions. I’m looking forward to using the Maelstrom as one of my “training grounds” to do this. Unfortunately I can’t run pc macros or anything like that to make changing spells easier.

So, you are correct that for sorc pets in general, they need to be on both bars or they will despawn when you swap. That is not true of the attro ultimate. Once you cast it, it will go its full duration. It can be cast from either bar. For pure single target damage, people typically backbar the attro (that is the ultimate they cast) and they front bar Meteor from the mages guild line for the passives, but they typically don't cast it. In the arena, I think the destro ultimate is a better choice than the attro. It's a little burstier and has an AOE component. That is why I suggest you back bar it and front bar meteor for the passives.

I understand about the bar swapping issue, and I know it is harder on controller. I am on PC, but I have tried to make my XBOX controller work with it. I absolutely struggled with more complex rotations. All that said, I am still never going to recommend that you double bar a skill like force pulse. At some point, rip the band aid off and force yourself to swap. It will get easier, I assure. You are limiting your potential so much by leaving skill slots on the table, especially considering your bars are already cramped with double slotting 2 pets. The most common way people build in this game is with a front bar for damage, and a back bar for ground dots/buffs. Generally, you keep longer duration skills on your back bar so that you dont have to swap as often, but even on conservative builds, you will swap every 10-14 seconds. Try to not hang out on your back bar. Cast what needs casting and get back to your front bar (also why i suggest your front bar your shield).

This game is absolutely play the way you want. And it will work very well in overland content, and some of the easier normal dungeons, but I assure you, that you will hit a wall at some point. Maybe not relevant to you, depends on what you are trying to do.

One reason I like the arena so much for learning is that you can try a build out of your comfort zone and learn. Who cares if you die 50 times, nobody is watching. I also strongly suggest that you spend a bit of time on a target dummy. Google some Trial dummy DPS parses, and try to replicate them. Don't focus on the gear (or the numbers at first), focus on the bars and rotation. Everyone at first thinks that its all about gear. Nothing personal, but I could put out more damage than you naked as the day I was born. Gear matters, but its the icing on the cake that is your rotation.

Most people do exactly what you do. They play the game for 6-7 months without a ton of detailed thought as to what they are doing. They then hit a wall that makes them come to the forums or YouTube for assistance. I did the same thing. You already took the leap on gear, and I am guessing it helped. Now I would take the leap on the comfort zone of your bars, it may get darker before it gets lighter. A lot of people also leave the game around that time, here is hoping you stick around.

As to sorc shield, well, that is how the class is built to defend. You do so much more damage in light armor vs heavy armor, and your shield (combined with crit surge) is the best thing to keep you alive. Crit surge also gives major sorcery, which is very important. You need to either get it from a skill or from potions if you want to do decent damage. Crit surge is the reason that sorcs are the easiest arena class, easy to make the argument that its the most powerful skill in your arsenals.

I would even go as far as to suggest that you give the arena a go with the other version of twilight (tormentor). Activate it, but its not even worth casting once its alive. The passive damage is very high. That will teach you to play with surge and shield. If you are casting the twilight matriarch at full health, it is doing absolutely nothing for you, other than burning your magic.

As to daedric prey, it does as you described. If you are running dungeons or soloing harder stuff, then yes, absolutely run it. Specifically in Maelstrom, I don't think it is worth it, except maybe with a full on heavy attack build where you drop force pulse. In a full on damage rotation (where your goal is to put out sustained DPS like a target dummy or boss fight), Daedric Prey is the center piece of your rotation. You cast it every 6th skill, never early because you will miss the boom at the end.

If bar swapping doesn't interest you, I would suggest you take a look at some single bar pet sorcs. Plenty of videos out there of sorcs doing veteran maelstrom without ever swapping. Dont exactly know what is best, but I would assume its (lightning staff): Familiar, Tormentor, Crit Surge, Hardened Ward, Flex, Destro Ultimate. Flex could be blockade, prey, frags, boundless storm, bound aegis, or Inner light. Inner light is nice because it also gives major prophecy (spell crit). Magic DPS always want major sorcery and major prophecy for max damage. You can get form spell power potions or from a combination of skills. Surge gives sorcery for the duration, inner light give prophecy for simply being slotted (its another skill you never actually cast).

Also, keep at the psijic grind, do like one part a day. It is really powerful.

Well, I can’t believe I implemented your suggestions so quickly! I changed yesterday when I got my PlayStation Back Button add on. Makes changing bars MUCH easier now. I’m only at level 2 for Hardened Ward and 2 for Thunder Storm, since I never bar’d them. I’m also on the 3rd psijic quest in Eastmarch, which I’ve barely been there before. Since I’ve never done the Zone Story quest there, I figured it would be a great opportunity to build my muscle memory with my new mechanics, even though the mobs are so easy it’s almost laughable 🙂

I don’t think I’ll ever reach the end of the mage line to get Meteor, since I’m only at 2 and I’m not going to do another fetch quest after I’m done psijic. I’m 10 in the fighters guild, but it seems that’s not going to help me at all.

One thing I noticed that for some reason didn’t expect: my MS staff on my backup bar can only do light attacks. I guess I’m too much of a noob to have realized that when I started to reflexively press my heavy attack button on my backup bar! Boy I’m glad there were no other players around to see my doing crit surge over and over again 😂

Getting to CA will again involve muscle memory. I might run out of muscle by that time.

I have a very powerful PC that I built last year. I planned to hook it up via hdmi to my tv and play the pc games on the couch (starting with eso). But I had so much trouble getting the settings to work under Win10/Nvidia to my 2016 Samsung 4K screen that I just gave up 😩. Maybe I’ll try again in the near future, but that involves lots of brainwave changes 😂. Luckily I’m very used to playing games with keyboard/mouse, since I’ve done it that way for many years.

Lighting staff Heavy Attack is a channel, its not like the inferno staff. If you dont have a target, it wont channel, but it will heavy attack by holding down the button assuming you have an enemy to hit. If you spend the passives, the channel will splash to nearby enemies doing AOE damage and restore magic. Front Bar and Back bar dont have any different functionality or limitations.

OmenRIP wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

Thank you for your fantastic post! I read quite a lot on this forum, but it’s great to have a detailed explanation like yours. It’s VERY helpful to me since I only play solo PvE.

I just completed Maelstrom (I’m assuming normal, there was no choice when I entered). Just wow! It took me some time to figure out what I needed to do on each level. The 2 worst levels for me were the ice pad one and the 3 pillar one. I spent at least 5 minutes hitting the boss on the pillar level, wondering why it’s health never decreased 🙂. I thought the last level was comparatively easy; easy meaning that I didnt die completing it😄. Also, with the stupid PS4 controller, my Tri-Pots got unassigned for some reason. Took me several deaths to notice it (I mostly use the Tri-Pots primarily for magicka refueling). The twilight handles almost all of my healing.

Since I died about 30 times during the arena, I guess I got a long way to go until I get to the veteran level 😂

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Sorry to quote myself, but I wanted to give you my current load out to see what you think, then make a couple of comments.

PRIMARY (single target)

Infernal Staff MS (gold) with gold shock glyph ( suggested by another kind responder to my thread).

* Force Pulse 4
* Crystal Frags 4
* Daedric Prey 4
* Twilight, Volatile, and Storm Atronach 4

SECONDARY (AOE)

Muck Minder MS (purple) with gold glyph of increase weapon and spell damage 435 for 5 seconds)

* Force Pulse 4
* Power Surge 4
* Blockade of Storms 4
* Twilight, Volatile, and Storm Atronach 4

I’m only showing you this is I changed my Muck Minder to Weapon Damage since 99% of my healing comes from the twilight. I’m also not sure where I can place the Ultimate Elemental Storms 4, since I only would want to use it for AOE, but many times my ultimate is not enough to cast (Atronach seems to do well in keeping the boss draining for a few seconds). The AOE Blockade of Storms seems better to me, especially when all those small spiders attack, since I can easily cast it multiple time while running in a circle to kill them all without stopping to use my staff to fire at them.

I know I have problems with many of the mechanics of the game, especially switching the bars and using the potions due to the stock PS4 controller. I am getting a back button attachment for the PS4 controller, but that won’t help me if my load outs are wrong.

Thanks for any input you may have.

I am not quite sure what I am looking at here. Are you saying your front bar is single target and your back bar is AOE? If so, I would adjust your back bar to be, ground AOE/buffs, and front bar single target. No reason to double bar Force Pulse or the Storm Attro.

My advice on bars for a farily easy mode Maelstrom. Good job on getting normal done, but definitely run it a few times to make sure you can identify each stage mechanics. They all have one.

Front Bar (fire staff):

-Force Pulse (main spammable)
-Crystal Frags (burst damage, only cast when instant proc)
-Hardened Ward (shield, keep it up)
-Familiar (AOE DOT, cast on cooldown)
-Twilight (burst heal, cast below 50% health)
-Meteor/Strom Atro (Either way, dont actually use them. Just slot for the passives)

Back Bar (lighting staff):
-Unstable Wall (Primary gound AOE, this or one if its morphs should be on every magic DPS bars without exception, I think unstable is better in the arena, it explodes if you recast early)
-**Liquid Lighting/Lighting Flood (Second Ground AOE, Lighting flood is actually probably better these days for the arena)
-Crit Surge (Heal over time and Spell damage buff)
-Familiar
-Twillight
-Destro Ult (main AOE ultimate)


Daedric Prey is just unnecessary in the arena. Things die to fast for it to matter. This is sort of an intermediate build.

People that are good at the arena dont run two pets. They drop familiar and actually run the damage morph of twilight. They rely on crit surge for healing. It is plenty once you get the hang of it. The best players dont even bother with a shield. If you drop familiar, the makes room for either trap or channeled acceleration on your back bar (CA is better IMO). The buff you are after is minor force. That leaves room on the front bar for really a flex spot. You could slot Bound Aegis for better raw stats. Endless fury for an execute (also good for magic return), or boundless storm for a bit of AOE, mobility, and Defense (i like boundless the best personally).

You could also go the other direction and front bar a lighting staff and go full on heavy attack/double pet build. This makes resources a non issue. You would drop both both force pulse and frags. Heavy attacks are the main sorce of damage. That would leave room for boundless storm and channeled acceleration. The playstyle is very easy and, you will be very tanky, but the damage wont be earth shattering (still plenty). I like to recommend more of a middle ground approach because I think it is better practice, but there is no easier way to beat Veteran than a heavy attack double pet sorc.

The main idea of the arena, buff between rounds (crit surge, channeled acceleration, boundless), camp portals as they spawn with ground dots (liquid lighting, blockade) and murder things as they come to you. Crit surge is always your number one priority, never let it drop. Shields are second priority. Third is probably Channeled acceleration*, then its your AOEs (Familiar, liquid and blockade). Get in the habit of casting them all together, so you know they are always up. Save Ults for bosses and for tougher mobs. If all of the above is ticking, you are either heavy attacking with a lighting staff (heavy attack build) or you are light attack weaving force pulse and crystal frags (but only when it procs for an instant cast).

*Channeled acceleration is from the psijic line. CA and Rearming Trap (fighter guild) both give Minor Force which is a very strong damage buff. The psijic line is a bit of a grind, just fair warning. In the arena, casting it between round should be enough as long as you always cast it between rounds. If you opt for Trap, treat it like your ground dots. Try to place it on portals. Generally, you dont recast either during the actual round, just between.

** I would either run unstable wall and lighting flood (both 10 seconds) or elemental blockade and liquid lighting (both I believe 14 seconds). That way you can always cast together. The first pair is better for the arena IMO.

Oreyn_Bearclaw, again you astound me with your very explanatory detailed post!

The reason I have the dups on my bars is twofold-I started my character that way, and I all the time have trouble changing bars during fights (again, damn PS4 controller). I’m hoping that my new back button attachment for my DualShock will help me with changing bars quickly and accurately.

About the ultimate Atro, I thought (and I’ve admitted many times that even though I’m now CP357, I’m a total noob setting up my bars) that the atro would disappear when I changed bars, just like my pets too. So I tried in the beginning of my character to set up dups do that even if the bar fails to change I can still use my offensive skills. I had my pets act as distractions, volatile familiar special and healing. It’s worked for me solo to about CP350, even doing some overland bosses. I’d let the pets attack the boss, all the while keeping the special constantly going, while using the twilight to heal the volatile and itself. Even if I had full health, I’d still use the twilights healing. I can’t remember which realm, but the lion boss I took down this way. It took me 15 minutes, but the pets got boss low enough for me to use Crystal frags to finish it off. Same thing for that boss with the bear adds. I took care of the adds while my pets slowly whittled down the boss over several minutes until I went in for the coup de grace so to speak. This is the main reason that I now 600 pots of tri healing potions. Once I got my mechanics down, I only used the potions for mana replenishment and the occasional heal in a hard fight. I’m sure many magsorc’s are laughing their heads off, but it worked for me in the very beginning so I stuck with I knew worked.

Everything changed when I got the 2 mother’s Sorrow staffs and the Mother’s Sorrow armor mixed with Necropotence. For one thing the staffs look almost identical so I would get confused which bar I was on (before this my main hand backup was a two handed sword as I said before I was leveling up 2 handed). Then I read that Daedric Prey increases the strength attacks of your pets, so I put it on my main bar to keep my pets attacking a little harder while I did some damage with my other single target/AOE spells.

It’s really hard for me to break a habit that’s been working for me for 6 months but I wanted to try. I’m sure I waded to fast into the ocean of skill/spell/setups. I really got confused 🙂

On the appearance of the 2 MS staffs, I’m thinking of doing an outfit change to give me 2 different staff looks to make it easier to tell which bar I’m on.

I’ve never used a Damage shield spell since I relied on my armor to protect me. I wore all heavy (at 50 skill) at the beginning. Most mobs would Zerg rush me and I could stand it until my volatile special killed them or my AOE did. I’m grateful that you suggested a shield, since my level mobs are getting harder and harder for my light armor to deal with.

I’m on the 3rd quest of the psijic line and you’re sure right about a grind. I’m on my 2nd quest to find those 9 portals. Who ever thought up this psijic quest progression should be shot 😂

I’m definitely going to try out all your suggestions that I can (except psijic) and see if I can get my muscle memory changed again 😄

Thanks again for you excellent critique and suggestions. I’m looking forward to using the Maelstrom as one of my “training grounds” to do this. Unfortunately I can’t run pc macros or anything like that to make changing spells easier.

So, you are correct that for sorc pets in general, they need to be on both bars or they will despawn when you swap. That is not true of the attro ultimate. Once you cast it, it will go its full duration. It can be cast from either bar. For pure single target damage, people typically backbar the attro (that is the ultimate they cast) and they front bar Meteor from the mages guild line for the passives, but they typically don't cast it. In the arena, I think the destro ultimate is a better choice than the attro. It's a little burstier and has an AOE component. That is why I suggest you back bar it and front bar meteor for the passives.

I understand about the bar swapping issue, and I know it is harder on controller. I am on PC, but I have tried to make my XBOX controller work with it. I absolutely struggled with more complex rotations. All that said, I am still never going to recommend that you double bar a skill like force pulse. At some point, rip the band aid off and force yourself to swap. It will get easier, I assure. You are limiting your potential so much by leaving skill slots on the table, especially considering your bars are already cramped with double slotting 2 pets. The most common way people build in this game is with a front bar for damage, and a back bar for ground dots/buffs. Generally, you keep longer duration skills on your back bar so that you dont have to swap as often, but even on conservative builds, you will swap every 10-14 seconds. Try to not hang out on your back bar. Cast what needs casting and get back to your front bar (also why i suggest your front bar your shield).

This game is absolutely play the way you want. And it will work very well in overland content, and some of the easier normal dungeons, but I assure you, that you will hit a wall at some point. Maybe not relevant to you, depends on what you are trying to do.

One reason I like the arena so much for learning is that you can try a build out of your comfort zone and learn. Who cares if you die 50 times, nobody is watching. I also strongly suggest that you spend a bit of time on a target dummy. Google some Trial dummy DPS parses, and try to replicate them. Don't focus on the gear (or the numbers at first), focus on the bars and rotation. Everyone at first thinks that its all about gear. Nothing personal, but I could put out more damage than you naked as the day I was born. Gear matters, but its the icing on the cake that is your rotation.

Most people do exactly what you do. They play the game for 6-7 months without a ton of detailed thought as to what they are doing. They then hit a wall that makes them come to the forums or YouTube for assistance. I did the same thing. You already took the leap on gear, and I am guessing it helped. Now I would take the leap on the comfort zone of your bars, it may get darker before it gets lighter. A lot of people also leave the game around that time, here is hoping you stick around.

As to sorc shield, well, that is how the class is built to defend. You do so much more damage in light armor vs heavy armor, and your shield (combined with crit surge) is the best thing to keep you alive. Crit surge also gives major sorcery, which is very important. You need to either get it from a skill or from potions if you want to do decent damage. Crit surge is the reason that sorcs are the easiest arena class, easy to make the argument that its the most powerful skill in your arsenals.

I would even go as far as to suggest that you give the arena a go with the other version of twilight (tormentor). Activate it, but its not even worth casting once its alive. The passive damage is very high. That will teach you to play with surge and shield. If you are casting the twilight matriarch at full health, it is doing absolutely nothing for you, other than burning your magic.

As to daedric prey, it does as you described. If you are running dungeons or soloing harder stuff, then yes, absolutely run it. Specifically in Maelstrom, I don't think it is worth it, except maybe with a full on heavy attack build where you drop force pulse. In a full on damage rotation (where your goal is to put out sustained DPS like a target dummy or boss fight), Daedric Prey is the center piece of your rotation. You cast it every 6th skill, never early because you will miss the boom at the end.

If bar swapping doesn't interest you, I would suggest you take a look at some single bar pet sorcs. Plenty of videos out there of sorcs doing veteran maelstrom without ever swapping. Dont exactly know what is best, but I would assume its (lightning staff): Familiar, Tormentor, Crit Surge, Hardened Ward, Flex, Destro Ultimate. Flex could be blockade, prey, frags, boundless storm, bound aegis, or Inner light. Inner light is nice because it also gives major prophecy (spell crit). Magic DPS always want major sorcery and major prophecy for max damage. You can get form spell power potions or from a combination of skills. Surge gives sorcery for the duration, inner light give prophecy for simply being slotted (its another skill you never actually cast).

Also, keep at the psijic grind, do like one part a day. It is really powerful.

Well, I can’t believe I implemented your suggestions so quickly! I changed yesterday when I got my PlayStation Back Button add on. Makes changing bars MUCH easier now. I’m only at level 2 for Hardened Ward and 2 for Thunder Storm, since I never bar’d them. I’m also on the 3rd psijic quest in Eastmarch, which I’ve barely been there before. Since I’ve never done the Zone Story quest there, I figured it would be a great opportunity to build my muscle memory with my new mechanics, even though the mobs are so easy it’s almost laughable 🙂

I don’t think I’ll ever reach the end of the mage line to get Meteor, since I’m only at 2 and I’m not going to do another fetch quest after I’m done psijic. I’m 10 in the fighters guild, but it seems that’s not going to help me at all.

One thing I noticed that for some reason didn’t expect: my MS staff on my backup bar can only do light attacks. I guess I’m too much of a noob to have realized that when I started to reflexively press my heavy attack button on my backup bar! Boy I’m glad there were no other players around to see my doing crit surge over and over again 😂

Getting to CA will again involve muscle memory. I might run out of muscle by that time.

I have a very powerful PC that I built last year. I planned to hook it up via hdmi to my tv and play the pc games on the couch (starting with eso). But I had so much trouble getting the settings to work under Win10/Nvidia to my 2016 Samsung 4K screen that I just gave up 😩. Maybe I’ll try again in the near future, but that involves lots of brainwave changes 😂. Luckily I’m very used to playing games with keyboard/mouse, since I’ve done it that way for many years.

Lighting staff Heavy Attack is a channel, its not like the inferno staff. If you dont have a target, it wont channel, but it will heavy attack by holding down the button assuming you have an enemy to hit. If you spend the passives, the channel will splash to nearby enemies doing AOE damage and restore magic. Front Bar and Back bar dont have any different functionality or limitations.

Thanks for that. I didn’t realize that I could hold down the light attack trigger (R2) on the PS4 controller. Normally for the inferno staff, I quickly toggle between Force Pulse and light attacks giving me a sort of machine gun attack. I’m going to try your suggestion on both staffs to practice using it.

I guess I should have read the “manual” before starting to play 😂

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

We call that weaving. Skills operate on a global 1 second cooldown. No way to cast a skill like force pulse faster than once per second, no matter how fast your press the button. Light attacks dont operate on the same limitations. In theory, you should be able to "weave" a light attack in front of EVERY skill you cast. The best players will essentially cast one one light attack and one skill each second (light attack goes first). As a general rule, this is the best way to maximize single target damage.

Heavys are a little different. Fire staffs charge and shoot two fire balls (frost staffs are similar). Lighting staffs (and resto staffs) channel. It's worth getting on a dummy to mess around with how they work. There really is no "manual" as a lot of this stuff has been tweaked over the years. But for example, you can hold down the r2 button to charge the attack, while its charging, you can spam the next skill you want to fire and it will go over as soon as the HA is complete. It's a bit of a sloppy technique, but it works.

Heavys are also use to manage resources, as they will restore magic with staffs (and stamina with everything else), and as stated earlier, lighting staffs also splash to nearby enemies assuming you max out the passives. This makes for a relatively easy playstyle on a sorc as you can just alternate heavy attacks and a handful of skills. Doing this and keeping up surge and shield, makes you very difficult to kill, and you will never run out of magic. One or two ground dots, surge, shield, and heavy attacks are all you really need to kill anything that isnt specifically designed to be group content.

delenn35 wrote: »

OmenRIP wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

We call that weaving. Skills operate on a global 1 second cooldown. No way to cast a skill like force pulse faster than once per second, no matter how fast your press the button. Light attacks dont operate on the same limitations. In theory, you should be able to "weave" a light attack in front of EVERY skill you cast. The best players will essentially cast one one light attack and one skill each second (light attack goes first). As a general rule, this is the best way to maximize single target damage.

Heavys are a little different. Fire staffs charge and shoot two fire balls (frost staffs are similar). Lighting staffs (and resto staffs) channel. It's worth getting on a dummy to mess around with how they work. There really is no "manual" as a lot of this stuff has been tweaked over the years. But for example, you can hold down the r2 button to charge the attack, while its charging, you can spam the next skill you want to fire and it will go over as soon as the HA is complete. It's a bit of a sloppy technique, but it works.

Heavys are also use to manage resources, as they will restore magic with staffs (and stamina with everything else), and as stated earlier, lighting staffs also splash to nearby enemies assuming you max out the passives. This makes for a relatively easy playstyle on a sorc as you can just alternate heavy attacks and a handful of skills. Doing this and keeping up surge and shield, makes you very difficult to kill, and you will never run out of magic. One or two ground dots, surge, shield, and heavy attacks are all you really need to kill anything that isnt specifically designed to be group content.

I’m not going to tell you what I thought “weaving” meant. I’d be called a super noob by everyone 😄. I did find a sort of acronym translation for most of the abbreviations I’ve read, but some of them I couldn’t find. Unfortunately I found this page after I’ve been reading about weaving for several days. And I can only do so many eso searches each day until my head explodes 😂

When I got to level 50 I thought I had the game down pat. Now at CP 368 I’m realizing that’s there’s probably 90% of the mechanics and realms and quests that I don’t know about. It’s a real eye opener. Since I’ll never create another toon, I’ve decided to make her the best she can be given my play style.

But at least I am now at Psijic level 3. Oh boy I can’t wait to see what’s next 🤬.

Thanks a lot about going into detail about attacks. I really appreciate it.

I think I'm the only person who found the Augur to be completely irritating... plus I can't understand a word he says.